Wind and Truth Chapters 21 and 22 now available!

[BinarySecond]

https://reactormag.com/read-wind-and-truth-by-brandon-sanderson-chapters-21-and-22/

[Rainier]

Thanks!

@Argent any chance that this thread gets updated?

[Argent he/him]

3 minutes ago, Rainier said:

Thanks!

@Argent any chance that this thread gets updated?

Yep, I'll take care of it!

[BinarySecond]

Oh my god Dalinar spoke in Stormfather type font. This is so bloody hype.

 

Ok Shallan, mildly interesting, I do wonder if she's just going to walk up to the door and say "I'm here to see Mraize"

Kaladin getting working on Szeth is great and I love it.

These chapters were all Dalinar baby - I suspect more of Tanavast remains than was originally hinted at. Perhaps a lot more. Stormfather is talking as if he WAS/IS Tanavast. Thoroughly exciting. Roll on December.

Edited October 14, 2024 by BinarySecond

[CtrlAltDepressed]

Wow wow wow wow wow. 

 

Stormfaker theory completely dead. I am sad to see it pass away but very excited to actually get some more lore from the stormather. 

 

The nightwatcher came from the Night. Makes sense. 

 

The stormfather came from the wind. So how is the wind a separate being?

 

The sibling was created by the stone....very interesting. 

 

Shallan is about to lose whatever they are going to try. I am certain that Mraize is one step ahead of her.

 

What is the stormfather and tanavasts shame??? What did they do?

 

Why doesnt stormfather want Dalinar to ascend? That seems very suspicious. 

 

Tanavasts plan is working is it.......color me skeptical. 

 

I need the nightwatcher to visit the sibling. That was so sad. Poor baby. 

 

I am very intrigued by Jasnahs observation that the timeline is wrong. Not sure where that leads though. 

 

I am so sad for sigzil.

[BinarySecond]

I gladly offer the Stormfaker theory up in exchange for this excellent story. Take all my janky theories.

Perhaps the Highstorm and the Wind were once considered closely but human perception changed that.

 

The Sibling being upset over their...siblings being changed is so very sad. 

 

Sigzil seems so very close to realising that the Fused can just abandon their bodies and appear in the next Everstorm in Azamir or wherever else they need to be moving Eastwards as required.

[Pagerunner he/him]

Quote

“Do you know, Wit?” Dalinar asked. “What happens to the power of a god when they die?”

“It’s different on each world,” Wit said. “On one it was all around, and we didn’t realize it. In another, the god’s power was stuffed in a metaphorical closet—packed into Shadesmar, left to rot. Here, if it wasn’t Splintered after all, then it’s in the Spiritual Realm. I think it might be the very substance of your visions, which behave so interestingly.”

The second example is obviously the Dor. But I can't quite figure out what the first one is. Is it just Preservation, and it's referring to the mists? Or is this something as-yet-unrevealed about Ambition or Virtuosity?

[BinarySecond]

4 minutes ago, Pagerunner said:

The second example is obviously the Dor. But I can't quite figure out what the first one is. Is it just Preservation, and it's referring to the mists? Or is this something as-yet-unrevealed about Ambition or Virtuosity?

I think the mists on Scadrial are a good theory if nothing else

[alder24]

Nohadon abdicated? Like just for the duration of his journey to Urithiru or forever? 

All of what Shallan did felt rushed, very rushed. No preparation, just attack them directly the very next day and everything seemed to be going splendidly. I predict it will end badly. One does not simply walk into a Ghostblood meeting. 

A Shardpen! So unnecessary, dangerous and ostentatious. I love it!

Ka just said out loud what I had in mind. Azish Oathgate was corrupted, has anybody checked on any other gate since then? It seems like a massive oversight. And that’s why I’m uncertain about the idea of allocating Windrunners from the Thaylen front to other locations in the meantime - if the Thaylen or Narak gates get corrupted too, Thaylen is lost.  

That’s cute, the Sibling made a room for Nightwacher Dalinar probably had a flashback when entering this room. Does the Stormfather have his own room too?

The Stormfather came from the Wind, the Nightwacher came from the Night - the ancient spren of the Night confirmed. And the Stones were also confirmed as the ancient spren. Nice lore dumb. And we even have some dates! Interestingly the Wind left, the Stones spoke to Venli and and Wind is speaking to Kaladin, so those ancient spren are still all around Roshar somewhere. Were the god spren made out of those spren in a similar way new  True Spren are made?

A mission to reclaim Herdaz, another force stretching Windrunners even thinner than before. I agree with Jasnah on this one. A bridge too far. 

Kaladin’s first therapy session turned out just as I expected it. He should have started with “sorry to hear that you’re crazy” - it wouldn’t have changed anything. I was waiting for so long to see Kaladin’s full reaction to Shinovar, I wasn’t disappointed.

An Unmade was in Shinovar this entire time? And they knew it? That changes a lot. And it was the voice Szeth heard as a kid? Ohhh, that's a very good plot twist. This means it can be only Dai-Gonarthis or Chemoarish, but because the latter is mindless, I think it has to be Dai-Gonarthis. This isn’t something I was expecting, I thought he was responsible for Moash’s emotionless state. 

“You’re ruining everything!” - the Stormfather said. He admitted he had his own plan and that he lied!

But how did the Stormfather break Heralds?

It’s kind of interesting to see how people on Roshar react to the idea of Dalinar becoming a god, while we on the forum casually throw around names of potential new Vessels every two days. It brought me back a little to the time when I first read the Mistborn series, the time when Vin and Sazed Ascensions were unexpected, shocking and groundbreaking events to read about. Dalinar Ascending is something we all have been kind of expecting to happen for years now, which isn’t bad at all, but it’s a totally different experience.

 

5 hours ago, Pagerunner said:

The second example is obviously the Dor. But I can't quite figure out what the first one is. Is it just Preservation, and it's referring to the mists? Or is this something as-yet-unrevealed about Ambition or Virtuosity?

Mists on Scadrial most likely. There aren't a lot of places where a Shard died. Roshar, Sel, Ambition in an unknown location, Scadrial and Komashi but Hoid hasn't visited Komashi yet. It has to be Scadrial. But it's weird that Hoid missed that they were Preservation's power. 

Edited October 14, 2024 by alder24

[CtrlAltDepressed]

1 hour ago, Pagerunner said:

Is it just Preservation, and it's referring to the mists?

I dont think so. It would be weird to me if Hoid didnt know that the mists were Preservation. I personally think this is referring to a different shard.

3 minutes ago, alder24 said:

It has to be Scadrial. But it's weird that Hoid missed that they were Preservation's power. 

Does it have to be? I agree it is really weird for this to be Preservation, Hoid absolutely should have known that.

 

Edited October 14, 2024 by CtrlAltDepressed

[the_archduke]

11 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Dalinar Ascending is something we all have been kind of expecting to happen for years now, which isn’t bad at all, but it’s a totally different experience.

 

Since we are expecting it, it won't happen.  I think Dalinar is going to fail.  Or succeed and abdicate.  Or something.  It can't be this straightforward.  Plus, narratively, the good guys can't win in book five out of ten.  

Edited October 14, 2024 by the_archduke

[The Stick]

I was really shocked at Dalinar small caps. I think that might have been him making some Spiritual connection to Honor.

Next, while I think him letting the Mink retake Herdaz was incredibly stupid, I believe it is a necessary step to the fourth ideal, which will go something like, I shall put oaths above what is good.

With making fun of Frost and Dragon kind in general is just funny.

Next, he said everyone who has taken up the power has regretted it. That is interesting, because Bavadin, Edgli, and maybe Sazed don't seem too. I think this might be colored by his perception.

Hoid talking about the power itself having certain things ingrained like a hatred for him seems interesting.

The SilverLight mercantile compass was just really funny to me, but makes sense.

 

Stormfather: 

The Gavilar conversation was way too much to not be foreshadowing. This also implies that even Gavilar never sought Honor itself, but SF makes it sound like that could have been a valid path.

What did the Stormfather do, what was his shame. Was Tanavast in on it? I want the next chapters already.

[alder24]

13 minutes ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

Does it have to be? I agree it is really weird for this to be Preservation, Hoid absolutely should have known that.

There is no other place we know of with dead Shard's remains lying around all over the world, unknown to everybody.

 

5 minutes ago, the_archduke said:

Since we are expecting it, it won't happen.  I think Dalinar is going to fail.  Or succeed and abdicate.  Or something.  It can't be this straightforward.  Plus, narratively, the good guys can't win in book five out of ten.  

I didn’t want to say that it will happen, just that we all know somebody will Ascend to Honor. Dalinar, Kaladin, or Taravangian - it doesn't matter who, we know it will happen in some way, at some point. Therefore the magical ending of HoA will never happen again, when somebody becoming a god was unthinkable. HoA changed the way I was looking at Brandon's books. 

 

3 minutes ago, The Stick said:

I was really shocked at Dalinar small caps. I think that might have been him making some Spiritual connection to Honor.

Dalinar already spoke in small caps in RoW ch 108/112:

Quote

“I accept it, Stormfather! I accept that there will be those I cannot protect!”
The storm rumbled, and he felt warmth surrounding him, Light infusing him. He heard Syl gasp, and a familiar voice, not the Stormfather’s.
THESE WORDS ARE ACCEPTED.

[...]

He [Dalinar] felt clunky and slow after being the winds moments ago. But he reveled in what he’d heard and felt. What he’d said.
These Words are accepted.

And earlier in ch 71:

Quote

“Kaladin?” Dalinar shouted. “Kaladin, what has happened?”
The young man didn’t move. Dalinar calmed himself, resisting the furious winds, and drew power from the soul of the storm.
KALADIN, he said.
Kaladin shifted, turning his head. His skin had gone pale, his hair matted and whipped into rain-drenched knots. Storms … he looked like a dead man.
WHAT HAS HAPPENED? Dalinar demanded as the storm.
“Singer invasion,” Kaladin whispered into the wind. “Navani captured. The tower on lockdown. Other Radiants are all unconscious.”
I WILL FIND HELP.
“Radiant powers don’t work. Except mine. Maybe those of a Bondsmith. I’m fighting. I’m … trying.”
LIFE BEFORE DEATH.

[the_archduke]

7 minutes ago, alder24 said:

we all know somebody will Ascend to Honor. Dalinar, Kaladin, or Taravangian - it doesn't matter who, we know it will happen in some way, at some point.

I agree 100%, someone will be holding Honor.  I am leaning more and more towards Taravangian and War.  There has to be a major conflict for books 6-10, and benevolent god DHonor or KHonor doesn't fit that bill.

Wit shot down the idea of renegotiation, and they discussed how he would let the world burn rather than free Odium.  But what if Odium were not Odium anymore?

"Odium: a god’s divine wrath, uncoupled from essential moderating factors like mercy and love.”  Those are Wit's words.  Wit believes Odium needs moderating factors.  What if Dalinar realizes that putting Adonalsium back together again is what Unity means.  So he ascends to Honor and either takes Odium from Taravangian, or gives Honor to Taravangian.  

Perhaps this is the decision Brandon has hinted at that he had long planned differently, but the character chose differently.  Dalinar's to give up Honor or take in Odium.

[Belgarad]

Losing track of the Skybreakers seems bad.  It's not like they could ride a highstorm right to Urithiru and assault it with the Siblings countermeasures being completely ineffective right?

[the_archduke]

Death rattle that seems incredibly relevant after this chapter.

"So the night shall reign, for the choice of honor is life"

Night is an entity.  Choice of honor comes across differently now that Dalinar is choosing to seek to ascend to Honor.  

[Shacharma]

2 hours ago, Pagerunner said:

The second example is obviously the Dor. But I can't quite figure out what the first one is. Is it just Preservation, and it's referring to the mists? Or is this something as-yet-unrevealed about Ambition or Virtuosity?

The Dor is from splintered Shards though - this could also be Wit describing Ruin being locked in the Well of Ascension?

Awesome chapters in general.
Also very intrigued about Jasnah's Timeline thoughts, the stormfather is clearly not the original wind.

Interesting that Night fled and was replaced by the Nightwatcher -Sja Anat? Midnight mother?

I think by this point Harmony regrets picking up the Shards. Wonder if Kelsier does? He might be a good exception to Hoid's comment? (or maybe he only cares about the original shardbeareers?)

[+Oltux72 he/him]

49 minutes ago, alder24 said:

All of what Shallan did felt rushed, very rushed. No preparation, just attack them directly the very next day and everything seemed to be going splendidly. I predict it will end badly. One does not simply walk into a Ghostblood meeting.

It is that or giving up the idea of striking at all. As far as she knows she has a critical advantage that will be lost over time.

The problem here is strategic in nature. There is no real need to go to war against the Ghostbloods now. In fact it is a pretty stupid idea.

53 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Ka just said out loud what I had in mind. Azish Oathgate was corrupted, has anybody checked on any other gate since then? It seems like a massive oversight. And that’s why I’m uncertain about the idea of allocating Windrunners from the Thaylen front to other locations in the meantime - if the Thaylen or Narak gates get corrupted too, Thaylen is lost. 

Provided that attack is even real. I would not put it past Taravangian to make sure that one of the attacks is a feint.

54 minutes ago, alder24 said:

A mission to reclaim Herdaz, another force stretching Windrunners even thinner than before. I agree with Jasnah on this one. A bridge too far.

Or one bridge too little. Calling off the defense of Narak in order to attack Herdaz would have made sense.

46 minutes ago, the_archduke said:

Since we are expecting it, it won't happen.  I think Dalinar is going to fail.  Or succeed and abdicate.  Or something.  It can't be this straightforward.  Plus, narratively, the good guys can't win in book five out of ten.  

First Dalinar will learn of the shame. Then we'll see whether he still wants to fight Odium. Jasnah has suggested the alternative. They might make a deal.

32 minutes ago, alder24 said:

There is no other place we know of with dead Shard's remains lying around all over the world, unknown to everybody.

Virtuosity?

 

[Fyodor32768]

2 hours ago, Pagerunner said:

The second example is obviously the Dor. But I can't quite figure out what the first one is. Is it just Preservation, and it's referring to the mists? Or is this something as-yet-unrevealed about Ambition or Virtuosity?

The thing that is odd is that he says that "we didn't realize it." I assumed that cosmere savvy people understood that the mists were part  of preservation. Regular scadrialians didn't but they didn't know about preservation at all. Also the mists long predate preservation's death.

[Subvisual Haze]

Quite a bit of talking about stuff that will happen in future chapters.  Shallan and gang talk about attacking the Ghostbloods (tune in next chapter).  Szeth almost reveals something about his past (tune in next interlude).  Dalinar talks about entering the Spiritual and revealing what happened in the past (tune in next chapter).

[Diomedes]

Dalinar is probably not going to ascend to Honor. But the threat of it did get the Stormfather talking and forced him to support Dalinars quest for answers, which he did not do before. That was Cultivations plan, I think. 

And Shallan is walking right into Mraize trap. So many red flags. He probably has a mole among the Unseen Court and knows exactly what is going on. He only needs to have emotional pressure, like access to their families, on one of them...

 

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

Stormfather likely killed Tanavast somehow. He is ashamed, he lies, and he doesn't want the power to be picked up. I wonder if this was something the spren did along with the Radiants, or even alongside Cultivation. Either way, his shame alongside Hoids "I actually missed his death, bummer" makes me think that there is a twist to Tanavasts death, and this is the obvious one. Question is why they did it. 

Shallan confronting Mraize is really exciting. Hopefully we finally get to see exactly what Mraize can do, I've been looking forward to him doing something other than playing dress-up and acting like a shady RPG-quest-giver. 

Also, I wonder if the Minks Herdaz-adventure is going to be another plotline, or just something that screws things up for our heroes. 

[CognitiveShadow he/him]

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

 Interestingly the Wind left, the Stones spoke to Venli and and Wind is speaking to Kaladin, so those ancient spren are still all around Roshar somewhere. Were the god spren made out of those spren in a similar way new  True Spren are made?

From the quote below (chapter 3 epigraph, quoting the in-world wind and truth), my understanding was that the Wind likely fell into the background as the general population focused more on the highstorm vs the Wind in general. So the Stormfather had more cognitive influence or was influenced more by the people living on the planet. So it seems like the wind might have slipped back out of significance and with fewer interactions, but I also wonder if there was some form of hiding for their protection and/or some active suppression by Rayse-Odium. But regardless, I agree that the Wind and the Stone are likely at least present on Roshar still

Quote

The Wind told me, before she vanished, that it was the change in Odium’s vessel that restored her voice. I wonder. Perhaps it is the new storm, making people begin to reconsider that the wind is not their enemy.

But for the Stone interaction with Venli - I always read that interaction as more of a direct/individual stone communication. The same way Shallan interacted with the wind's pleasure or a stick for soulcasting. I thought Venli just spoke to the stones that she was trying to shape/change/transform. Kind of like how Kaladin can also interact with windspren or have windspren as armor, but the way the Wind warps around him or he becomes one with the Wind in battle is different and a more direct interaction with the entity. Does that make sense? Or is there a WoB or something that clarifies this that I'm missing?

I also found it interesting the the Night left, but Cultivation made a new being out of the Night's essence, presumably meaning the Nightwatcher since they are made from the Night. I wonder where the Night went though and what it means to 'leave'?

[Smye]

Do I remember correctly that there's a WOB (couldn't find it just now, though) that SA is essentially Dalinar's story? How might that shift our understanding and predicting?

[the_archduke]

Night as an entity is making me think of so many things.  I started a reread after the first Wind chapter, and I am seeing so many connections for Kaladin we assumed had to do with Syl/the Stormfather/being a radiant that probably relate to Wind.  I wish I had time to do the same for Night.

But I remember some things I can look up.

"Nightform predicting what will be, / The form of shadows, mind to foresee. / As the gods did leave, the nightform whispered. / A new storm will come, someday to break. / A new storm a new world to make. / A new storm a new path to take, the nightform listens."

As the gods did leave!!!

Night left.  Wind is going to leave?  What does this mean?

Night related to precognitive abilities?

We thought that the gods meant the Unmade, but the Old Magic gods are much more likely.