Interludes 1 / 2

[The Sovereign]

1 hour ago, The Stick said:

Is it possible to that Ala is a Skaze?

This seems unlikely since "Ala" is the Aon for Beauty/Handsomeness. Presumably the Skaze would be named whatever Fjordell character is at their core, not after an Aon.

[TheOtherDave]

9 minutes ago, CognitiveShadow said:

When Odium says he should be able to help them, to save them, Cultivation says:

To me that reads as a direct response to him wanting to heal the child, and being told that he can't have any direct impact on people unless they are fully given to him. His later response futher supports that in my opinion, as he specifies that he needs them to be fully his and he has to be allowed to intervene.

What is interesting to me here, is that they have to be "given" to him. Does he need approval from Honor or Cultivation? Or is it simply speaking to the individual giving themselves to Odium? Like how Moash has to allow Odium to help him take away his pain?

WRT Cultivation’s response, I thought it was interesting that she referred to healing as “action against” (emphasis mine). Not sure what to make of it… seems like someone who “cultivates” would approve, but then based on some of her other comments it seems she might have a very Darwinian view of the term, so maybe she’s playing such a long game that she doesn’t see individuals the way you or I would.

 

WRT to the fact such restrictions exist, yeah, that whole section has me really wondering what exactly Odium agreed to and how Honor and Cultivation convinced him to do it.

[+Oltux72 he/him]

1 hour ago, Subvisual Haze said:

The Seon was the real spy all along!  Which makes the cremling/Sleepless now a red herring.

No. The assumption here is that only the Ghostbloods would spy on Hoid. That is a tad optimistic.

 

21 minutes ago, CognitiveShadow said:

Yes! Which begs even more of the question - why did Kaladin have glowing gold and red eyes when fighting the 'defeated one' in RoW? Was he at his peak passion in that moment? He actually does seem to have a LOT of overlap for what we now know of Odium's shard, and of course he has always had his Honor connection that has been quite obvious and upfront. Could we be setting up for yet another shard combination, with Kaladin taking up both Honor and Odium?

Given the title of the book, Wind looks like a likelier candidate.

[CognitiveShadow he/him]

1 minute ago, TheOtherDave said:

WRT Cultivation’s response, I thought it was interesting that she referred to healing as “action against” (emphasis mine). Not sure what to make of it… seems like someone who “cultivates” would approve, but then based on some of her other comments it seems she might have a very Darwinian view of the term, so maybe she’s playing such a long game that she doesn’t see individuals the way you or I would.

Maybe she sees herself as a gardener and the bulk of her actions tend to be "against" people but for their better long term good? Like pruning a plant in the right way, cutting back parts that will let more fruit grow and help other parts of the plant grow in the desired way? So she isn't really about just letting things run wild and live so much as she is trying to cultivate and shape things over time? That would line up with the long game / darwinian approach, and could help explain her use of the term 'against' maybe?

[alder24]

31 minutes ago, therunner said:

I am not sure if I understand this. You mean that Rayse was so suffused, that trying to act against Intent of Odium was creating inner conflict in effect?

I think so. Rayse wasn't in control anymore, he was overwhelmed by Odium's intent. But he still had his personality that wanted to do things the power didn't like, which created inner conflict with himself. RoW letter:

Quote

My instincts say that the power of Odium is not being controlled well. The Vessel will be adapted to the power’s will. And after this long, if Odium is still seeking to destroy, then it is because of the power.

I don't think it's about suppressing passion of others, which he clearly didn't do with Leshwi, but he was just with conflict with himself. The power likes being challenged but, it didn't served Rayse's plans - Rayse was fighting against his intent. On the other hand Taravangian allowed himself to feel, while not being overwhelmed by it and the power. Taravangian weeps, but it doesn't control him, nor does he fight against it - he accept those passions and plans in line with them.

 

It's still a mess in my head, I don't know what's going on, so I can't really describe it right now. I just don't think it matters Rayse suppresses other people passion, just that he acts against his intent in general. 

 

14 minutes ago, CognitiveShadow said:

What is interesting to me here, is that they have to be "given" to him. Does he need approval from Honor or Cultivation? Or is it simply speaking to the individual giving themselves to Odium? Like how Moash has to allow Odium to help him take away his pain?

I don't think any approval of other Shards is needed, just that a person must be willing to give themselves fully to Odium, like Moash. However Taravaingian said: "Assuming these were fully mine, and I were allowed" which indicates that he doesn't just have to have them, he must be also allowed to do it by others (Shards). So it can mean both things.

 

[CognitiveShadow he/him]

1 minute ago, Oltux72 said:

Given the title of the book, Wind looks like a likelier candidate.

You mean he might bond the Wind and become a new kind of bondsmith in some way? I think the current consensus is that the Wind is an old spren of Adonalsium that has not been 'enlightened/corrupted' the way others may have been (Sibling, Stormfather, Unmade, etc.?). Lots of speculation, but I don't see the Wind working as a new shard that Kaladin could take up. Just something he could help protect in some ways and maybe bond to. Which I think would be a better ending to the book though since we did already have Harmon in mistborn

[Nesh he/him]

I'm kind of surprised Kelsier recruited Felt, considering he's a nobleman.  Granted so, was Breeze, but he pretended to be half skaa.

[TheOtherDave]

6 minutes ago, CognitiveShadow said:

Maybe she sees herself as a gardener and the bulk of her actions tend to be "against" people but for their better long term good? Like pruning a plant in the right way, cutting back parts that will let more fruit grow and help other parts of the plant grow in the desired way? So she isn't really about just letting things run wild and live so much as she is trying to cultivate and shape things over time? That would line up with the long game / darwinian approach, and could help explain her use of the term 'against' maybe?

Ooohhh yeah that makes sense.

[+robardin he/him]

The more I think about it, the more intriguing and suggestive it is that Ala / Felt were in cahoots the whole time.

First, remember how Shallan even got the seon box? She was given it as a “communication cube” by Mraize before leaving Urithiru, as a way to contact him even from Shadesmar.

However, opening the box up - that was something they needed Kelek to do “without harming the thing inside”, which Wit identified for them as a “seon”. Whereupon Ala was sure to act like the “abused and neglected” seon we’d seen in a box as used by Hrathen in Elantris.

(Which was never named - hey, maybe this IS the same seon!)

The fact that Ala was fully ready to present that act - as it apparently was - while functioning as a passive “communication device” as Hoid expected a seon-in-a-box to do, and to await contact with Felt, means that was always a plan within a plan.

And the Raysium dagger was originally in a hidden compartment of the seon box, too.

It seems the Ghostbloods always anticipated Shallan possibly backing out after discovering “Restares” was the Herald Kalak, and engineered Felt being on their team (possibly through something like emotional Allomancy) to do exactly what he did - step in to take over.

But, he has enough independent authority from Kelsier himself to disregard Iyatil and Mraize’s standing mission order to use the dagger to “absorb” Kalak. Possibly only after hearing (and believing) Kalak’s explanation about why he wouldn’t be gem-trapped but simply killed, the way Jezrien was.

And think about amazingly clever it was to have Ala ready to be a passive communication box for Shallan! She used it to talk to HOID, as well as schmoopie-boopie talking with Adolin!

Aside from putting one over even on Hoid — not so easy to do — it definitely reads like Felt/Ala are Kelsier’s “insurance” against his own agents in Iyatil/Mraize, 

Quote

I don’t trust [the Raysium dagger] — Iyatil gave it to us, and Lord Kelsier said to be careful. I think we wait to make sure the mission goes as planned. Mraize and Iyatil might contact us for more explanations. 

What is “the mission” that may yet “go as planned” (hasn’t yet failed - i.e., the en-gemming of Kalak in the dagger)?

And him commenting on how “Mraize and Iyatil might contact us for more explanations” - meaning, for information they withheld, and plan to continue withholding or forestalling?

Was the fact that the dagger was procured through Iyatil the REASON for Felt’s mistrust, and Kelsier’s warning to “be careful”? Do they think Iyatil is actually somehow going over to Odium for a personal power play of some kind?

Not to mention that Felt would surely have been in a great position to kill Shallan and/or Adolin before they left Lasting Integrity. Shallan maybe a bit more difficult to kill as a Radiant, but Stormlight isn’t exactly abundant in Shadesmar… If he can Awaken curtains and nobody else there even knows it’s a thing, he could probably have strangled Shallan until she ran out of Stormlight, and then just had the curtains go back to being curtains.

In other words, Kelsier (and Felt/Ala by extension) are not “at war” with Shallan (with deadly intent) the way that Mraize/Iyatil appear to now be. (At the same level as them having tried to kill Jasnah earlier.)

[+Oltux72 he/him]

8 minutes ago, CognitiveShadow said:

Maybe she sees herself as a gardener and the bulk of her actions tend to be "against" people but for their better long term good?

If you cultivate crops, you will have to weed out weeds.

7 minutes ago, CognitiveShadow said:

You mean he might bond the Wind and become a new kind of bondsmith in some way? I think the current consensus is that the Wind is an old spren of Adonalsium that has not been 'enlightened/corrupted' the way others may have been (Sibling, Stormfather, Unmade, etc.?). Lots of speculation, but I don't see the Wind working as a new shard that Kaladin could take up. Just something he could help protect in some ways and maybe bond to. Which I think would be a better ending to the book though since we did already have Harmon in mistborn

In Rhythm of War Kaladin showed additional power and to a degree the red of using a source of power to power another arcane power. In fact, as far as we know you either pick up a Shard or you do not not. Temporarly pulling some power from it is not possible. Hence it looks like Kaladin was forming some kind of protobond or temporary bond, which we have precedent for. Rock did so.

What power would Wind grant if properly bonded? Well, the big set of powers whose origin we lack are the Regals. They cannot be Voidbinders. In that case their eyes would not be red.
If you force me to speculate then going purely by the name by bonding Wind, Kaladin would become the human equivalent of Stormform.

12 minutes ago, Nesh said:

I'm kind of surprised Kelsier recruited Felt, considering he's a nobleman.  Granted so, was Breeze, but he pretended to be half skaa.

That ship we knew to have sailed when we saw that he had hired TwinSoul.

[Diomedes]

7 minutes ago, alder24 said:

It's still a mess in my head, I don't know what's going on, so I can't really describe it right now. I just don't think it matters Rayse suppresses other people passion, just that he acts against his intent in general. 

The way I read the chapter Rayse was not able to controll the emotions, the passions at all. Taravangian on the other hand can controll them and has a different range of emotions due to his gift by Cultivation. 

"She had raised him up because the old Odium was becoming too violent, too willing to destroy everything as the emotions raged freely." 

Odium the power itself was all about Passion all along and Rayse was not lying to Dalinar when he described the power of Odium as Passion.  This makes sense given the faith of the "Passions" so despised by Wit and the effect of Ashertmartn in Kholinar.

[+Oltux72 he/him]

4 minutes ago, robardin said:

And the Raysium dagger was originally in a hidden compartment of the seon box, too.

You are raising a point. Did they give Shallan the real thing at all? On second thought, what good is a dead Kalak to the Ghostbloods? Wouldn't they know what happened to Jezrien?

8 minutes ago, robardin said:

And him commenting on how “Mraize and Iyatil might contact us for more explanations” - meaning, for information they withheld, and plan to continue withholding or forestalling?

Withholding information from somebody who comes from Kelsier's home world and has a Seon to communicate with Kelsier? It seems to me that Kelsier did not expect Adolin and Shallan to be abruptly recalled. In fact that was before the contest was agreed to.

 

13 minutes ago, robardin said:

Not to mention that Felt would surely have been in a great position to kill Shallan and/or Adolin before they left Lasting Integrity. Shallan maybe a bit more difficult to kill as a Radiant, but Stormlight isn’t exactly abundant in Shadesmar… If he can Awaken curtains and nobody else there even knows it’s a thing, he could probably have strangled Shallan until she ran out of Stormlight, and then just had the curtains go back to being curtains.

Plausible, but not conclusive. Sure, Felt could have eliminated Shallan and Adolin. But that would have spooked Kalak. He would have sunk his primary mission.

[CognitiveShadow he/him]

13 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

In Rhythm of War Kaladin showed additional power and to a degree the red of using a source of power to power another arcane power. In fact, as far as we know you either pick up a Shard or you do not not. Temporarly pulling some power from it is not possible. Hence it looks like Kaladin was forming some kind of protobond or temporary bond, which we have precedent for. Rock did so.

What power would Wind grant if properly bonded? Well, the big set of powers whose origin we lack are the Regals. They cannot be Voidbinders. In that case their eyes would not be red.
If you force me to speculate then going purely by the name by bonding Wind, Kaladin would become the human equivalent of Stormform.

Fun thoughts! I didn't know Rock had a bond or protobond - is that how he can see spren? Do we have more details on this somewhere? Also, random thought as I was thinking back to Rock a bit..... any chance he takes up Honor at some point? I mean he is literally going back of his own volition to face the music after doing the honorable thing in the moment (saving a friend) at the expense of breaking a vow. That seems like peak Honor qualities - valuing a vow almost above all else, but still being willing to break that vow at your own peril in order to save a friend who previously saved your life. 

[+robardin he/him]

1 minute ago, Oltux72 said:

You are raising a point. Did they give Shallan the real thing at all? On second thought, what good is a dead Kalak to the Ghostbloods? Wouldn't they know what happened to Jezrien?

Withholding information from somebody who comes from Kelsier's home world and has a Seon to communicate with Kelsier? It seems to me that Kelsier did not expect Adolin and Shallan to be abruptly recalled. In fact that was before the contest was agreed to.

 

Plausible, but not conclusive. Sure, Felt could have eliminated Shallan and Adolin. But that would have spooked Kalak. He would have sunk his primary mission.

Yes, I would assume that Shallan had really been using Ala-in-a-box as a seon communicator to talk to Mraize earlier - if it was not "the real thing" how had that been done?

And that's my point about Felt's comment about "I don't trust [the dagger], it came from Iyatil" and "Iytail/Mraize might contact us for more explanations" - note that he's anticipating how to handle them wanting "more explanations", not "more information", as if they'd say "justify what you said earlier in light of what we knew or believed earlier" and not just "can you tell us more about...".

If he really is directly reporting to Kelsier and disregards and mistrusts Iyatil and Mraize, it's not hard to think that maybe that comes from or is shared by Kelsier, at least a little bit at this point.

(And by the time of TLM, which is set a bit later in time than this, Kelsier full-on regards Iyatil as someone who has "run amok" - not hard to think that Kelsier had already seen a trend in that direction by this interlude)

[CognitiveShadow he/him]

19 minutes ago, Diomedes said:

The way I read the chapter Rayse was not able to controll the emotions, the passions at all. Taravangian on the other hand can controll them and has a different range of emotions due to his gift by Cultivation. 

"She had raised him up because the old Odium was becoming too violent, too willing to destroy everything as the emotions raged freely." 

I agree with this. I think that Cultivation's gift helped to train Taravangian on how to manage an intense conflict of emotions and logic, especially when there is powerful imbalance between the two. I don't think there is still any lingering magical impact or active effect on Taravangian from that boon/curse, but I do think it helped change who he was over time as a mortal and wired him to process things certain ways. But it does not look like her experiment was a success (of course knowing her, this could all be part of her even longer-term long-term plan lol)

[+Oltux72 he/him]

2 minutes ago, robardin said:

Yes, I would assume that Shallan had really been using Ala-in-a-box as a seon communicator to talk to Mraize earlier - if it was not "the real thing" how had that been done?

Sorry for being unclear. I meant the dagger. Do we have any indication that Shallan had a real Raysium dagger? In fact are we sure Felt has the real thing now?

3 minutes ago, robardin said:

And that's my point about Felt's comment about "I don't trust [the dagger], it came from Iyatil" and "Iytail/Mraize might contact us for more explanations"

That sentence is ambiguous. Who explains what to whom?

5 minutes ago, robardin said:

If he really is directly reporting to Kelsier and disregards and mistrusts Iyatil and Mraize, it's not hard to think that maybe that comes from or is shared by Kelsier, at least a little bit at this point.

A Herald is really important. I would suggest that this is an operation that is simply above Iyatil's rank.

 

[alder24]

4 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Sorry for being unclear. I meant the dagger. Do we have any indication that Shallan had a real Raysium dagger? In fact are we sure Felt has the real thing now?

This is the same dagger, isn't it? Shallan gave it to Kalak in RoW and that's the dagger Felt has now. Ghostbloods didn't know that Jezrien had faded from the gemstone, so they would have no reason to believe that the dagger wouldn't work. Now Felt knows the truth so he doesn't want to use it anymore because Kalak is more useful alive than dead.

For Mraize it was a win-win situation. Either Shallan uses the dagger on Kalak and joins Ghostbloods, or Felt finishes the job with the same dagger.

[+robardin he/him]

35 minutes ago, alder24 said:

This is the same dagger, isn't it? Shallan gave it to Kalak in RoW and that's the dagger Felt has now. Ghostbloods didn't know that Jezrien had faded from the gemstone, so they would have no reason to believe that the dagger wouldn't work. Now Felt knows the truth so he doesn't want to use it anymore because Kalak is more useful alive than dead.

For Mraize it was a win-win situation. Either Shallan uses the dagger on Kalak and joins Ghostbloods, or Felt finishes the job with the same dagger.

That's how I read it as well: Felt was "Plan B" in case Shallan opted out at the last minute, and they didn't really want to kill Kalak but to capture him for information about B-a-M. And now Felt/Ala have gotten the info about BAM's whereabouts without having to do that, and passed that along to Iyatil as well as Kelsier.

At the same time, I am reading in (and yes I agree, it is ambiguous, but I feel still telling that it's even ambiguous) to Felt's words and attitude in talking with Ala in that Interlude that Felt doesn't fully trust Iyatil/Mraize to be doing what Kelsier really wants.

Whether or not that is shared by, or comes from Kelsier himself is even more ambiguous, but in line with what we briefly see of Kel's own POV thoughts in TLM regarding Iyatil.

EDIT: I went and re-read that passage from TLM and it's actually TwinSoul's description, not Kelsier's.

And the fun thing about writing in the past tense, "TwinSoul hated being unable to get a full read [on Dlavil's expression, as he] -- like his sister who ran amok on Roshar -- [wore a mask he never removed]", is that we don't know if Iyatil "ran amok" (in the past of TwinSoul's POV) or if it's "ran amok" in the concurrent past tense, agreeing with TwinSoul being described in the past tense.

That is, if by the time of TLM, if Iyatil is done running amok one way or another, or still is.

Edited September 16, 2024 by robardin

[Corgen]

Are there 20 interludes? Will we have 2 interludes each day?

[TheOtherDave]

3 minutes ago, Corgen said:

Are there 20 interludes? Will we have 2 interludes each day?

Dunno.

Also, do we know if the book ends after day 10 (well, and an epilogue), or does stuff happen after the battle? If it goes on for a while there could be some interludes there, too.

[+robardin he/him]

2 hours ago, TheOtherDave said:

WRT Cultivation’s response, I thought it was interesting that she referred to healing as “action against” (emphasis mine). Not sure what to make of it… seems like someone who “cultivates” would approve, but then based on some of her other comments it seems she might have a very Darwinian view of the term, so maybe she’s playing such a long game that she doesn’t see individuals the way you or I would.

WRT to the fact such restrictions exist, yeah, that whole section has me really wondering what exactly Odium agreed to and how Honor and Cultivation convinced him to do it.

While she phrased it as "action against", if Odium actually cannot reach out to heal a random child and she cites that oath as the reason, it must be that the intent/phrasing is direct action "upon" and it was just kind of assumed that with Rayse at least, a direct action of Odium to touch someone "not fully his" was disallowed as "an action against"?

Odium is supposed to act on Roshar through his direct minions, e.g., the sapient Voidspren and the Fused, or someone like Moash/Vyre, Amaram, or Taravangian. Though he can talk to someone to convince them.

And I think there must be extra clauses about the "direct minions" of Honor, that is to say the Heralds, being off limits even for Odium's "direct minions", as they had to get Moash to stab Jezrien with the Raysium dagger while the Heavenly Ones floated overhead to observed, a murder that "seemed a thing that they dared not do themselves".

Edited September 16, 2024 by robardin

[Nesh he/him]

The Ghostblood situation is getting more and more interesting.  I don't know if we'll see the Ghostbloods in their current form in the back half of Stormlight, a lot of this is based of quotes in the Lost Metal, as well as the Felt Interlude.

Felt is interesting because he's from Era 1 Scadrial, that makes it rather likely that he is one of the first Ghostbloods, a spymaster would be a good early recruit, and we know he works directly under Kel via the Interlude.  He obviously has disdain for Iyatil, calling her a "masked witch", and that's not the first time we've seen someone in Kel's direct crew show disdain for her as noted in other posts she's considered to have "run amok" on Roshar, though this was misattributed to Kelsier it was actually TwinSoul that said it.  Still, that's still two Ghostbloods who work very close to Kelsier in all likelihood disapproving of Iyatil.  Felt's presence on Roshar separate from the Rosharan branch may indicate that Kelsier doesn't fully trust said branch.

Now to the really interesting part, in Lost Metal Kaise when listing worlds closed off to the Ghostbloods she said "Roshar, if you want to count it", that to me implies that they can go there, but choose not to.  So, I'm thinking whatever operation we see in this book goes south, and Kelsier agrees to pull out of Roshar to make peace with Shallan and cuts the Rosharan branch off.  Whether Mraise and/or Iyatil survive to make trouble in the back half is another matter.  

[+Oltux72 he/him]

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

This is the same dagger, isn't it? Shallan gave it to Kalak in RoW and that's the dagger Felt has now.

Under these assumptions we have to believe

1. A paranoid Herald left the only weapon that could kill him, as far as he knows, unsecured, so that Felt could find it
2. Felt happens to find the weapon in somebody else's house. In fact, why does he even look for it there?
3. Felt dares enter a Herald's house without knowing for sure where the weapon that could kill the Herald, if that should become necessary, is

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

Ghostbloods didn't know that Jezrien had faded from the gemstone,

Didn't they? The Ghostbloods have advanced technology and science.

In hindsight I have a big problem with believing that the ghostbloods ever gave Shallan a real dagger. I see the following issue

• They did not tell her how this thing works. She would believe that she really killed her victim.
• She would have learned at some point that she had assassinated a Herald. Very high up among the blasphemous crimes you can commit on Roshar.
• The gem stone would be charged. It would be quite bright and hard to conceal.
• Shallan has known issues of mental health and is traumatized by killing somebody. There is no telling what she'd do after a murder, even less when she learns that she's killed a Herald.
• The Honorspren are not very likely to let the humans just leave after a Herald has been murdered
• They are even less likely to let them go without thoroughly searching them

If you had done the most heinous crime practical on Roshar and must expect to be searched, would you keep the murder weapon, which, as far as you know is expensive, but useless to you? I for sure wouldn't. This is no viable plan for retrieving the gem on the dagger, even if Shallan should actually execute the plan.

[+robardin he/him]

20 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Under these assumptions we have to believe

1. A paranoid Herald left the only weapon that could kill him, as far as he knows, unsecured, so that Felt could find it
2. Felt happens to find the weapon in somebody else's house. In fact, why does he even look for it there?
3. Felt dares enter a Herald's house without knowing for sure where the weapon that could kill the Herald, if that should become necessary, is

Didn't they? The Ghostbloods have advanced technology and science.

In hindsight I have a big problem with believing that the ghostbloods ever gave Shallan a real dagger. I see the following issue

• They did not tell her how this thing works. She would believe that she really killed her victim.
• She would have learned at some point that she had assassinated a Herald. Very high up among the blasphemous crimes you can commit on Roshar.
• The gem stone would be charged. It would be quite bright and hard to conceal.
• Shallan has known issues of mental health and is traumatized by killing somebody. There is no telling what she'd do after a murder, even less when she learns that she's killed a Herald.
• The Honorspren are not very likely to let the humans just leave after a Herald has been murdered
• They are even less likely to let them go without thoroughly searching them

If you had done the most heinous crime practical on Roshar and must expect to be searched, would you keep the murder weapon, which, as far as you know is expensive, but useless to you? I for sure wouldn't. This is no viable plan for retrieving the gem on the dagger, even if Shallan should actually execute the plan.

Well the reverse also boggles the imagination.

That they would commission a Big Ask of Shallan, such that they'd "tell her everything" after she completed it, and also given a very rare, offworld Invested object (the seon in a box), for a plan with multiple stages, each predicted ("you'll know what to do when you find him" / "he's the Herald KALAK?" / "Yep, toldja, you would know what to do, and that was to call me")...

And then the final stage, "push the button and reveal this knife, that will capture him in the gemstone so our master Thaidakar can learn from him"... Was a blind ruse, meant to give Felt and Ala the big assist in the operation?

OK let's say the whole thing was SUPPOSED to scare Kalak and not kill him, which could be plausible. The implausible part is not cluing in a knife-wielding Shallan to that effect, and in fact straight up telling her the opposite.

Because why then would her orders, meant to induct Shallan fully into the Ghostbloods (which Mraize, by all accounts, genuinely wanted and expected to happen), be to do exactly that? And her telling Mraize that she hadn't done so, been met with anger and disappointment?

If she HAD stabbed Kalak with it, as she came close to doing as Formless, and he HADN'T been drawn into the dagger, ... what would have happened? He dies a normal "death" and goes back to Braize?

That doesn't set Shallan up to join the GBs. And note that, while grooming Shallan for Ghostbloodthirst (a word I just made up), Mraize has never lied to Shallan. Only withheld information. Feeding her just enough truths to lead her deeper into their organization.

[king of nowhere]

i was really worried about taravangian.

in many stories there are characters like him, doing terrible things for a supposed greater good. now, since we live in an idealistic society where those things are frowned upon, those characters end up being hypocrytes who didn't really care for good after all. it undermines the whole thing. and i was very happy that taravangian wasn't taking that pitfall, he remained selfless and self-sacrificing as he was doing terrible things. and i was afraid something would come that would cheapen his character.

but this is perfect. taravangian thinks he has to kill all other shards to stop conflict, which makes perfect sense. he's still acting selflessly. he's still a greater threat than ever.

i like that the whole business is grey in a way that feels real. i don't like how, in common stories, that gets thrown away. Either for a reassuring - but fake - conclusion that you can never end up in a situation where you have to get your hands dirty, and if you're genuinely good and caring you can never take a morally bad decision in good faith. or, taking the opposite grimdark approach, to rub in your face how you can't achieve anything positive without wading through rivers of blood, and anyone thinking otherwise is a naive fool at best.

with taravangian, there's nothing of the sort. he is in a situation where objectively there isn't a clearly right option, he still seem to have the best intentions, he's still doing something terrible and, most likely, wrong. but for a perfectly logical reason.