Evidence for potential SA5 character death?

[BlueWildRye]

I think a lot of people are assuming that Adolin isn't going to survive Wind and Truth, and I'd like to know where the evidence for that is. Can someone explain?

[NameIess]

I can't think of a reason, other than that Brandon normally has at least one character death in his series finales, and I guess people think Adolin's arc is complete enough that his death wouldn't matter too much in the grand scale of things? I don't buy it personally. I think that among the main cast a Dalinar death is the most likely, followed by Syl and/or Kaladin.

Edited April 18 by NameIess

[CtrlAltDepressed]

I subscribe to the death of Adolin for a couple main reasons. I think its a given that one of the main / mainish characters is going to die this book. Not only is it Brandons style, it seems to fit the overall theme of the story. The most Honorable thing someone can do is give their life for a greater good. 

 

In no particular order:

-I would cry if Kaladin is the one who dies

    -I dont think Kaladin will die realistically because that would be a terrible ending to his arc in my opinion

-Adolin has been sad about his lack of usefullness / power for some time now

    -What better way to be useful than to sacrifice yourself Deus Ex Machina style to save the day or allow someone else to save the day

-He has been set up as the greatest dueler on Roshar, making his first loss that much harder / shocking

-He is personally important to pretty much every main character and his death could be the final motivation for them to complete their character arcs / progress through more oaths

    -He is Kaladins best friend now, and is constantly pulling Kaladin out of his funk

    -He is Dalinars son, obvious connection there

    -He is Renarins brother, obvious connection there

    -He is Jasnah's cousin, though this one is the weakest simply due to Jasnahs personality

    -He is Shallans husband, and she is quite the mess. The loss of Adolin could be too much for her to relegate to a personality, forcing her to accept and process grief on her        own, again allowing her to progress through the oaths. 

-He has set himself up as a champion of the deadeyes. I believe if he is going to die it will be in an act to restore Maya / all of the deadeyes. 

[BlueWildRye]

I suppose that makes sense. It would be pretty cool for Adolin to make a heroic sacrifice of some sort at the end. And it is Brandon Sanderson's way to do things like that in his series finales. I really hope Kaladin survives; he's my favorite character, hah.

[Forts Board]

If Adolin dies right now, it would  basically send shallan and kaladin back to square one. I doubt that it will happen. I hope nobody dies hahaha

[BlueWildRye]

1 hour ago, Forts Board said:

If Adolin dies right now, it would  basically send shallan and kaladin back to square one. I doubt that it will happen. I hope nobody dies hahaha

Yeah I personally don't want Adolin to die but I guess Brandon could make it work if he wanted

[J. Magi]

23 hours ago, BlueWildRye said:

I think a lot of people are assuming that Adolin isn't going to survive Wind and Truth, and I'd like to know where the evidence for that is. Can someone explain?

I totally respect everybody's takes on this, but I'd like to share my opinion:

It's possible that I'm extremely biased towards Adolin because he's my second favorite Cosmere character, but I honestly, genuinely, don't see him dying. It just doesn't make sense. His arc so far has been about figuring out how to live in his current situation, and support his family. Dying wouldn't complement that arc, in fact it would completely negate it. Not to mention if Adolin were to die, both Kaladin and Shallan would fall apart (maybe even Dalinar). Specifically Shallan. Killing Adolin off would probably mess up four books worth of character development so far for several characters, and would go against some of the books main messages.

SA is about rising above the past and moving forward, making the future better for those who will come after you. It's about change as a society and the slow path to becoming a better people. If Adolin, a young highprince with the power and will to change things dies, Brandon can't use him to convey that central theme. Adolin is meant to be different from his father in that he learns from his fathers mistakes and tries to do better, so that his children can do even better. Killing him would make it hard to convey that idea, and that theme. He can't live on to be a better highprince then his father before if he's dead .

Not to mention, with Kaladin, Adolin is a character that emphasizes different people from different backgrounds learning to work together. While not the only one, Adolin is one of the noble/lighteyes that Kaladin actually trusts, and learning to trust each other adds to that central theme. If Adolin were to just die, a lot of that faith in each other that could have otherwise been built up on would no longer have impact in the story.

Quote

He is personally important to pretty much every main character and his death could be the final motivation for them to complete their character arcs / progress through more oaths

I couldn't disagree more, as stated above, killing Adolin would hurt character development for his friends, not help it. Kaladin and Shallan are both on thin ice when it comes to mental health, maybe being able to move past a death is something Kaladin needs to do eventually, but not right now.  Right now, that kind of death would ruin him. He was able to move on from being suicidal in RoW, but that doesn't mean he's emotionally ready to watch one of his friends die, same with Shallan. If Wind and truth is going to cover the ten days to the final duel, and perhaps the aftermath, there is not enough time (imo) for Kaladin and Shallan to become stable enough to except a death that close to them.

(EDIT: I also just realized killing Adolin might also mess up any healing Maya has had thus far as well, ruining the point of his bond with her in the first place)

Sorry for the rant, I just think he's one of the least likely to die. (or maybe I just really, really don't want him to lol)

Characters I could see dying:

-DALINAR (my dudes he's gonna go, I really think he is)

-Szeth

-Jasnah

-Shallan (a little less likely but still an option)

-Moash (I'm imagining a Darth vader 'redeemed through death' situation)

-Literally any of the Bridge four side characters whose names I don't remember--these would actually be handy to kill off, because the reader knows them and their history enough to care, but taking them out of the story doesn't really hurt anything.

19 hours ago, Forts Board said:

If Adolin dies right now, it would  basically send shallan and kaladin back to square one. I doubt that it will happen. I hope nobody dies hahaha

That's what I was thinking

Edited April 19 by justice magician
I wrote this when I was in a bad mood and so some of the wording came off as aggressive--full respect to anyone who has a different opinion

[CtrlAltDepressed]

52 minutes ago, justice magician said:

I also just realized killing Adolin would destroy any healing Maya has had thus far as well, ruining the point of his bond with her in the first place

Not necessarily. We have seen with many characters in SA that their moments of highest stress are when they gain the most clarity. Maya becomes the first deadeye to speak because Adolin was being condemned to death. I imagine his actual death would send her into a rage that might just pull her fully back together. 

56 minutes ago, justice magician said:

Characters I could see dying:

-DALINAR (my dudes he's gonna go, I really think he is)

-Szeth

Dalinar has been Brandons baby since Dragonsteel. I would be extremely surprised to see him die in this book, though his death would be hugely impactful I will give you that.

Szeth for sure. That poor boy (man) needs to rest

[UltimateArchivist]

12 minutes ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

DALINAR (my dudes he's gonna go, I really think he is)

We REALLY don't want Dalinar to die, because if he does, it will be in the Constest of Champions, and then Dalinar would be Odium's champion forever. Which would be terrifying.

Really don't want that to happen.

[Quantus]

Generally I look at who's story still has obvious threads to address or not: 

 

Adolin wont Die, because Maya's story is still unfolding and he's required for it.  

Dalinar wont Die...He'll be UnMade and Fused, which is pretty close.  

Kaladin could Die, but only after swearing the 5th.

Szeth could Die as the Destination for his Journey back to Shinovar.  

Shallan could Die, as part of a big Ash Reveal and setting up Ash's more active participation in the back half.  

Jasnah could Die but but it would be really complicated to make her the Flashback POV character (way more than last time).

Rock will Die, because he's not going to let anyone save him...

 

[J. Magi]

40 minutes ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

Not necessarily. We have seen with many characters in SA that their moments of highest stress are when they gain the most clarity. Maya becomes the first deadeye to speak because Adolin was being condemned to death. I imagine his actual death would send her into a rage that might just pull her fully back together. 

This is definitely a matter of debate because we don't have any solid facts, but I was under the impression that it was Maya's link and connection to Adolin was what was healing her and making her conscious again (I believe someone once speculated it was like a backwards Nahel bond, but I don't fully remember). The prospect of Adolin's death did shock her into coming back more, but it's my opinion that his actual l death would really hurt her, if not make her fully dead eye again--because it was his connection with her that brought her back in the first place. That being said, I can honestly see it going either way, and I understand where you're coming from.

45 minutes ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

Dalinar has been Brandons baby since Dragonsteel. I would be extremely surprised to see him die in this book, though his death would be hugely impactful I will give you that.

Ah, I wasn't actually aware of this.

45 minutes ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

Szeth for sure. That poor boy (man) needs to rest

Yeah . . . as much as I love him, it seems likely

31 minutes ago, UltimateArchivist said:

We REALLY don't want Dalinar to die, because if he does, it will be in the Constest of Champions, and then Dalinar would be Odium's champion forever. Which would be terrifying.

Really don't want that to happen.

I honestly don't see the Contest of Champions 'going to plan,' so to speak. It's not going to be as simple as Dalinar Vs Odim's champion, with Dalinar winning. I'm sure both sides are going to find loopholes in the contract and exploit them to shift how the conflict actually works. Not to mention, I genuinely don't think Dalinar is strong enough to take down Odiums champion. Maybe I'm wrong, but he just doesn't seem powerful enough. Perhaps if he had more time to figure out his Bondsmith powers, but he only has ten days. I think it's likely that the contest will be interrupted, or the contract broken in some way--having it actually just happen and then work out is too predictable.

That being said, this is entirely speculation so all of it is debatable.

I mostly said Dalinar would probably die, because a lot of character arc has mostly already happened. He's realized his mistakes, and become a better person over the past few books. While he could definitely continue to get better and improve, his character is at a point thematically that if he were to die heroically it would be satisfying to the reader. (At least, that's how I see it )

1 minute ago, Quantus said:

Kaladin could Die, but only after swearing the 5th.

I highly doubt Kaladin would die, seeing as his entire arc is about living on past bad things, and his character struggle (especially in RoW) has been avoiding suicide. It would be dissatisfying to the reader for him to die after finally coming to terms with living and moving on. 

3 minutes ago, Quantus said:

Jasnah could Die but but it would be really complicated to make her the Flashback POV character (way more than last time).

 

I was under the impression the Flashback PoV's for Wind and Truth was going to be Szeth's backstory, but that could have just been a rumor? Or maybe your talking about Flashbacks PoV's in the second half of SA, then I would agree that that would be awkward if she's dead. 

[Quantus]

Just now, justice magician said:

I highly doubt Kaladin would die, seeing as his entire arc is about living on past bad things, and his character struggle (especially in RoW) has been avoiding suicide. It would be dissatisfying to the reader for him to die after finally coming to terms with living and moving on. 

I could easily see himself choosing a Self-Sacrifice route to save somebody or something, but it would fundamentally not be Suicide in all the relevant ways, rather it would be all about the core Protective nature of Windrunners.  

Just now, justice magician said:

I was under the impression the Flashback PoV's for Wind and Truth was going to be Szeth's backstory, but that could have just been a rumor? Or maybe your talking about Flashbacks PoV's in the second half of SA, then I would agree that that would be awkward if she's dead. 

She's slated to be a Flashback POV character in the back half, and the Elsecaller representative there. But Eshonai was supposed to be (and technically was) a flashback POV character and she was not alive by then.  It worked for her because of Venli presence, but I dont think the same narrative forms would work for Jasnah (who has no comparable support characters).  

[J. Magi]

1 minute ago, Quantus said:

I could easily see himself choosing a Self-Sacrifice route to save somebody or something, but it would fundamentally not be Suicide in all the relevant ways, rather it would be all about the core Protective nature of Windrunners.  

Once again I disagree, even if the death is very obviously not a suicide, it would still feel dissatisfying. Up until now, Kaladin has been completely ready to die for those he loves, and I think part of his arc is finding a balance between protecting those around him and taking care of himself. Not to mention learning to live on despite trauma and mental illness. A sacrificial death would be heroic, but from a character development standpoint it would feel wrong because of what his arc is about. Killing him off would make his efforts to keep living despite his challenges feel cheap, in my opinion. Protecting others may be the wind runners true nature, but Kaladin's development is about protecting and caring for himself (which is just as important). I'm not saying a sacrificial death on his part would be wrong or bad, just that it doesn't line up with where Brandon has been taking the character so far.

6 minutes ago, Quantus said:

She's slated to be a Flashback POV character in the back half, and the Elsecaller representative there. But Eshonai was supposed to be (and technically was) a flashback POV character and she was not alive by then.  It worked for her because of Venli presence, but I dont think the same narrative forms would work for Jasnah (who has no comparable support characters).  

Oh, I wasn't aware of that, thanks for the info! I guess that changes my opinion on her then--she probably won't die. I don't know if she really has someone like Venli to tell the flashbacks for her . . . maybe Navani?

[Quantus]

1 minute ago, justice magician said:

Oh, I wasn't aware of that, thanks for the info! I guess that changes my opinion on her then--she probably won't die. I don't know if she really has someone like Venli to tell the flashbacks for her . . . maybe Navani?

I thought about that too but I think it would be odd for Bondsmiths to have so much turnover, with her just Bonding the Sibling and nobody Bonding the Nightwatcher yet.  I think it more likely that she'd be there to let the Radiants keep access to a Bondsmith when they lose Dalinar.  

[J. Magi]

3 minutes ago, Quantus said:

I thought about that too but I think it would be odd for Bondsmiths to have so much turnover, with her just Bonding the Sibling and nobody Bonding the Nightwatcher yet.  I think it more likely that she'd be there to let the Radiants keep access to a Bondsmith when they lose Dalinar.  

I was mostly saying that we could maybe see some of Jasnah's memories through Navini's memories, the way we say Eshonia's through Venli's. That being said, Navani and Jasnah didn't seem extremely close, so it might not be a good way of revealing Jasnah's secrets.

[fievelgoespostal]

I think we could make a case for just about anyone dying.  I've come to peace with not knowing and being ready for anyone to die.    I hope no one does lol

[NameIess]

5 hours ago, UltimateArchivist said:

We REALLY don't want Dalinar to die, because if he does, it will be in the Constest of Champions, and then Dalinar would be Odium's champion forever. Which would be terrifying.

Really don't want that to happen.

Conversely, I really want that to happen. Dalinar leading TOdium's forces? Yes please. That's a way more interesting way for the books to go than any other outcome I can think of.

Edited April 19 by NameIess

[Aredor]

59 minutes ago, NameIess said:

Conversely, I really want that to happen. Dalinar leading TOdium's forces? Yes please. That's a way more interesting way for the books to go than any other outcome I can think of.

I also really hope that Dalinar in some way loses the contest and is made a Fused. Besides the fact that it would be really storming cool,  I think this sets up an arc for Dalinar for books 6-10. I don't see him having any growth in those books without something major happening to him. Most of his emotional arc was fulfilled in OB, as well. 

In regards to what everyone is saying about Adolin... 

NO.

More seriously, as @justice magician said above, Adolin dying would completely destroy Kaladin and Shallan's mental health. With this being the last book before the time jump, I just don't see there being enough room for either one to fulfill their arcs. In addition, Adolin is the only person in the entire Cosmere that has experience with healing deadeyes. He is integral to the entire storming planet at this point. 

As for who I think will die, it will be Renarin and Rlain. Taravangian is smart. He knows that Renarin and Rlain are able to mess with his fortunesight. With them gone, he'd be able to plan and he'd know the absolute best course of action. He'd even know what our main characters are most likely to do with those two gone. 

Finally, here's my list of characters I think will live/die. 

Szeth - Dead.

Dalinar - worse than dead. 

Navani - Living.

Kaladin - Fate Unknown.

Adolin - Living.

Shallan - Living. 

Renarin - Dead.

Lift - Alive in hiding because I think that would be really cool to start book 6 with Lift in exile.

 

Edited April 19 by Aredor

[J. Magi]

40 minutes ago, Aredor said:

I also really hope that Dalinar in some way loses the contest and is made a Fused. Besides the fact that it would be really storming cool,  I think this sets up an arc for Dalinar for books 6-10. I don't see him having any growth in those books without something major happening to him. Most of his emotional arc was fulfilled in OB, as well. 

In regards to what everyone is saying about Adolin... 

NO.

More seriously, as @justice magician said above, Adolin dying would completely destroy Kaladin and Shallan's mental health. With this being the last book before the time jump, I just don't see there being enough room for either one to fulfill their arcs. In addition, Adolin is the only person in the entire Cosmere that has experience with healing deadeyes. He is integral to the entire storming planet at this point. 

As for who I think will die, it will be Renarin and Rlain. Taravangian is smart. He knows that Renarin and Rlain are able to mess with his fortunesight. With them gone, he'd be able to plan and he'd know the absolute best course of action. He'd even know what our main characters are most likely to do with those two gone. 

Finally, here's my list of characters I think will live/die. 

Szeth - Dead.

Dalinar - worse than dead. 

Navani - Living.

Kaladin - Fate Unknown.

Adolin - Living.

Shallan - Living. 

Renarin - Dead.

Lift - Alive in hiding because I think that would be really cool to start book 6 with Lift in exile.

 

Wait . . . now I'm thinking about an awesome aged up version of Lift for 6-10 . . . She's gonna be so cool!

[Ookla]

1 hour ago, justice magician said:

Wait . . . now I'm thinking about an awesome aged up version of Lift for 6-10 . . . She's gonna be so cool!

Uh-huh. I am so excited!!!! Lift, at about my age and relative maturity? Yes, please!

[The Stick]

I am almost certain that part of the ending of Wind and Truth will be the death of the Stormfather. Regardless of whatever happens to Dalinar, if he falls of if he becomes Honor or whatever, there is no way Stormfather is making it out alive.

[JustQuestin2004]

4 hours ago, The Stick said:

I am almost certain that part of the ending of Wind and Truth will be the death of the Stormfather. Regardless of whatever happens to Dalinar, if he falls of if he becomes Honor or whatever, there is no way Stormfather is making it out alive.

His death has been brought up before, Dalinar nearly killed him by forcing him to be a Blade to use an Oathgate in Oathbringer, this was brought up again in ROW during Adolin's Trial. Rayse wanted to kill the Stormfather but couldn't risk doing it because of Cultivation potentially using that momentary distraction to kill him in turn, but now Odium has a new Vessel being personally taught by Cultivation, so TOdium might just be in the perfect position to both kill the Stormfather and deal a wound to Cultivation to even them out.

Not to mention there is a rather ominous Death Rattle about Light fading: 

Spoiler

Light grows so distant. The storm never stops. I am broken, and all around me have died. I weep for the end of all things. He has won. Oh, he has beaten us.

[Fyodor32768]

Because Adolin is beloved of all three major characters so his death will have emotional impact. He's a goner.

[justsomekidinasuit]

On 4/19/2024 at 3:46 PM, justice magician said:

maybe being able to move past a death is something Kaladin needs to do eventually, but not right now.  

kaladin's gotta deal with Teft dying and stuff.  i loved teft.

[BlueWildRye]

If anyone is dying in SA5, it HAS TO BE MOASH. I don't care if he's redeemed or not, but that guy has got to go.