Break Tank 4: Last Night, Rain Mingled With Mist

[Aeoryi]

Just now, Ookla the Destined said:

Sure

But you also have to be okay with being e read. In this case, it isn't even a scan, Wiz just got your name. The only thing he knows is that you're either a Villager, Darkfriend, or Forsaken, which... we already knew? xD Actually @Wiz I'm only now realizing that you were just straight up wrong in your maths about Aeo. By your logic, every single player has a 2/3 chance at being evil :P. I think that's a more villagery slip than an elim one though.

But anyway, being e read is a (large) part of this game, and this game in particular, where many scans and many false scans and the like will be flying around. So you're just gonna have to accept that /shrug

Hael I don't think has seen the thread but JNV definitely posted without claiming which is mildly interesting

I have the GM fact checker role who should I scan? Archer? Maybe Mat? Or JNV?

[JNV]

37 minutes ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

So we have claims from everyone except @JNV and @Haelbarde. Anything useful for you two?

Apothecary which is the poison role but I didnt poison anyone cause like kinda no point in tainting the pool of info gatherers and stuff right off the bat oh but @Ookla the Destined I found out if I poison you then the people you target wont get drunk not sure if that helps considering it makes your numbers wrong but like if we coordinate its still usable information the number you get like not zero oh at least ones evil not one oh either teamed or innocent not two oh well that ones the least useful but not teamed 

[Haelbarde]

Sigh. Y'all need to spend more time reading the rules. Give me a bit to reread thread to try and actually parse what was being said.

[The Wandering Wizard]

31 minutes ago, Ookla the Destined said:

Actually @Wiz I'm only now realizing that you were just straight up wrong in your maths about Aeo. By your logic, every single player has a 2/3 chance at being evil :P. I think that's a more villagery slip than an elim one though.

Wait huh? I can only get one villager, one darkfriend, and one Forsaken. One of these has been already given but not true to what Aeo really is. So...yes 2/3 on no taint, but no on taint?

[Haelbarde]

Seeing as we have a veteran claim and we've also had just about every possible way of interpreting how it works wrong, the veteran names a Forsaken in thread during the night.

• If they get the name correct, the game ends with a village victory.
• If they get it wrong, they die, presumably giving us a most likely trustworthy flip to be able to know whether they're village or not, but certainly prove themselves to not be the Forsaken without costing us a village execution.
• If nothing happens, it means they were poisoned/drunk, and any claimed apocatharies and innkeepers are suspect.

4 hours ago, Ookla the Paradigm said:

I think you must hit the Forsaken, which is a specific Darkfriend. Even if you hit the other elim, you die instead. Oh you figured that out. Basically it's most useful as a threat to deal with a Dragon claimant who is making us scared to exe them. 

I don't think it's useful at all. Forsaken only claims Dragon if they think the Dragon claim won't get executed. If we think a Dragon claimant is the Forsaken, then we execute them as that way the game ends. 

Personally, I'd be just as happy to get a safe flip of Raven to be able to rule them out as a Forsaken by them missing their attack.

3 hours ago, Kasimir said:

The question assumes when drunk, we select for what Wiz was supposed to see first in terms of category. Let's just say the category doesn't come first in the RNG process when drunk.

My interpretation of this is that normally:
Night 0: GMs roll dice to choose a random category. Then they roll to choose a random player in that category.
Night 1: Which ever category chosen N0 is excluded, so coin flip between the other two, then randomly choose a player from that category
Night 2: Randomly choose a player from the last category.

However, in our situation, if we choose to trust Ookla the Destined's claims, then
Night 0: Random player on the player list chosen with no regard to categories.
Night 1: As no categories have been chosen from yet, there's a chance at getting any of the 3 categories.
Night 2: Assuming they weren't poisoned N1, then the category of player from N1 is removed from the list, and there's a coin flip on which category is used for this night. Then a player is chosen randomly from the chosen category.

Which means, as long as we accept the claims of Innkeeper and Watchman, then we just disregard last night's result of Ookla the Resolute, and rather wait and see what results we get N1 and N2 as we will know that those two results will be players from different alignments. It's possible they could be darkfriend and forsaken but these scans aren't taken in isolation, there's other sources of information that can be used to cross check these.

---

Going to pause here and vote for No Execution now while I think of it. It doesn't pay to leave votes on the table - we don't want darkfriends to hammer and waste an execution. 

More thoughts still to come.

---

Merge 1:

Actually, I am feeling inclined to execute Ookla the Destined. 

Either they are: 

• Village Innkeeper, in which case we can get good odds on confirming that they are village along with myself and Wizard based on their scans, drastically narrowing down the options for Forsaken.
• Darkfriend Innkeeper, in which case we know to not trust anything Ookla the Destined has claimed (we can assume that Wiz and I were drunk for C1 if we otherwise verify that either of us are village, and certainly it means Wiz and I can know that we were drunk given we know our alignments, but it does open up the possibility of one of us being a Darkfriend and there's an unknown third person that was unknowingly drunk
• Forsaken, knowing that the Innkeeper isn't in the game, and using the claim to sow chaos and distrust of results throughout the game, in which case executing them wins the game.

Edited December 18, 2023 by Haelbarde
Posts were merged

[Archer]

2 hours ago, Ookla the Destined said:

I’m trying really hard not to read this as an indirect e claim or at least e frustration

Had a similar read. 

1 hour ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

So we have claims from everyone except @JNV and @Haelbarde. Anything useful for you two?

JNV not claiming initially tripped my Spidey senses. 

1 hour ago, Ookla the Destined said:

Sure

But you also have to be okay with being e read. In this case, it isn't even a scan, Wiz just got your name. The only thing he knows is that you're either a Villager, Darkfriend, or Forsaken, which... we already knew? xD Actually @Wiz I'm only now realizing that you were just straight up wrong in your maths about Aeo. By your logic, every single player has a 2/3 chance at being evil :P. I think that's a more villagery slip than an elim one though.

But anyway, being e read is a (large) part of this game, and this game in particular, where many scans and many false scans and the like will be flying around. So you're just gonna have to accept that /shrug

Hael I don't think has seen the thread but JNV definitely posted without claiming which is mildly interesting

Mat made the two points I was going to as I read the most recent discussion: JNV late claiming is huh, and what they said about Resolute. Mind meld is real, which is why I'm reconsidering my initial e!read of them. 

53 minutes ago, JNV said:

Apothecary which is the poison role but I didnt poison anyone cause like kinda no point in tainting the pool of info gatherers and stuff right off the bat oh but @Ookla the Destined I found out if I poison you then the people you target wont get drunk not sure if that helps considering it makes your numbers wrong but like if we coordinate its still usable information the number you get like not zero oh at least ones evil not one oh either teamed or innocent not two oh well that ones the least useful but not teamed 

Fair point that this is what Mat should have done. What poisoner messes with our info roles? 

Mat would say he got two scans out of it. But he wasn't in a rush to present that info. 

He offered to role claim because he's gotten burned being the last person to claim before, and he has the luxury of having an unaffiliated role. But even then he wasn't jumping to claim it, he had to be asked. If you have two villagers, do you not just blow your cover and mention that? 

Doing some distro speculation, his role messes with everyone else, but he gets 4 alignments before exlo. That means there's only 3 people he won't know the alignment of. If he flips green, that's pretty powerful. In a small game, that doesn't feel balanced in village hands. (Mat alluded to his dislike of distro speculation, which has also burnt him in the past when evil.) I think the ability to make villagers drunk to counter the hefty info advantage they'll develop unchecked (with conservative play from people like JNV) makes sense in evil hands. 

Mat started off the game saying he trusted me for the mind meld, and I don't believe Mat gives me trust for just good observations. He'll trust me for doing something brazen, but not just for good points that early. Mat also deferred to me at one point, and it felt uncharacteristicly passive. 

I've talked myself back into a Mat exe. I strongly believe he's evil, which means we still get two shots at the Forsaken. No-claim Hael is probably my Forsaken  suspect right now, followed by maybe Devo. They tripped some alarms I need to explore later. 

 @JNV would you be willing to poison me? If I know the answer to my yes/no question is false, it's a better tool. 

[DrakeMarshall]

Greetings people of Helgen. I give to you a vote tally! Heck, it might even be the correct tally!

Vote Tally:

JNV (1) - Aeoryi / Ookla the Resolute

Hael (1) - Mat / Ookla the Destined

Aeoryi (1) - Wizard / Ookla the Raveness

Mat / Ookla the Destined (1) - Archer / Ookla the Paradigm

No Execution (1) - Hael

You may now return to your regularly scheduled programming.

[Haelbarde]

Best case scenario, Ookla the Destined gets executed, and we verify 3 players as village.
Night 1, Ravens tries to kill the Forsaken, gets it wrong, and dies. That verifies both Ravens and their target as not the Forsaken.

That means that Day 2 we've good odds on knowing that 5 of the 8 players are not the Forsaken, without refering to any other scans.

2 minutes ago, Ookla the Paradigm said:

No-claim Hael is probably my Forsaken  suspect right now

I don't claim without very good reason as a matter of policy. People who've played with me before probably can verify that. Kas would know best, but Kas is the GM and can't weigh in on things. But I can certainly go find links to the various posts I've made in the past about Op Sec if you'd like.

I've not ruled out claiming yet, but I've not spent enough time considering the matter. I don't immediately see the value in doing so. Well, maybe. Give me a little longer to think.

---

Vote Tally
(0) Devotary: Resolute{1}
(0) Ravens: Destined{1}
(0-1) Destined/Mat: Ravens{1}, Pardigm{2}?
(1) Hael: Destined{2}
(1) JNV: Resolute{2}
(0) Paradigm/Archer: Devotary{1}
(1-2) Resolute/Aeoryi: Paradigm{1}, Raveness{1}
(0) Raveness/Wizard: Devotary{2}
(1) No Execution: Hael{1}

(1?) Destined/Mat: Pardigm
(1) Hael: Destined
(1) JNV: Resolute
(1?) Resolute/Aeoryi: Paradigm, Raveness
(1) No Execution: Hael

2 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said:

Greetings people of Helgen. I give to you a vote tally! Heck, it might even be the correct tally!

Vote Tally:

JNV (1) - Aeoryi / Ookla the Resolute

Hael (1) - Mat / Ookla the Destined

Aeoryi (1) - Wizard / Ookla the Raveness

Mat / Ookla the Destined (1) - Archer / Ookla the Paradigm

No Execution (1) - Hael

You may now return to your regularly scheduled programming.

Well it agrees with mine provided we allow new votes without retracting the previous!

[The Wandering Wizard]

5 minutes ago, Haelbarde said:

Best case scenario, Ookla the Destined gets executed, and we verify 3 players as village.
Night 1, Ravens tries to kill the Forsaken, gets it wrong, and dies. That verifies both Ravens and their target as not the Forsaken.

That means that Day 2 we've good odds on knowing that 5 of the 8 players are not the Forsaken, without refering to any other scans.

We lose if two villagers die, throughout the whole game so if it goes as your suggesting, then no it won't go all as planned cuz we'll have lost.

[Haelbarde]

Just now, Ookla the Raveness said:

We lose if two villagers die, throughout the whole game so if it goes as your suggesting, then no it won't go all as planned cuz we'll have lost.

No, we lose if two villagers die to the execution (the day vote). The veteran dying at night, or someone with the same alignment as the fool dying at night, do not count towards the two village execution total.

[The Wandering Wizard]

5 minutes ago, Haelbarde said:

No, we lose if two villagers die to the execution (the day vote). The veteran dying at night, or someone with the same alignment as the fool dying at night, do not count towards the two village execution total.

Oh good. Okay so yeah it would work. And also I can possibly get the identity of the Forsaken unless Aeo got tainted Forsaken and is really one of Villager/Darkfriend.

[Haelbarde]

55 minutes ago, Haelbarde said:

Actually, I am feeling inclined to execute Ookla the Destined. 

Either they are: 

• Village Innkeeper, in which case we can get good odds on confirming that they are village along with myself and Wizard based on their scans, drastically narrowing down the options for Forsaken.
• Darkfriend Innkeeper, in which case we know to not trust anything Ookla the Destined has claimed (we can assume that Wiz and I were drunk for C1 if we otherwise verify that either of us are village, and certainly it means Wiz and I can know that we were drunk given we know our alignments, but it does open up the possibility of one of us being a Darkfriend and there's an unknown third person that was unknowingly drunk
• Forsaken, knowing that the Innkeeper isn't in the game, and using the claim to sow chaos and distrust of results throughout the game, in which case executing them wins the game.

While I've not shifted my vote yet, flagging that someone probably needs to talk me out of this if they don't want me to move my vote to Mat before the end of cycle.

---

New Post that will probably be Merged

Actually I am going to shift my vote from No Vote to Ookla the Destined / Mat as I've realised that verifying them also lets us have more confidence in any future scans they make, if they turn out to indeed be a Village Innkeeper.

 

[JNV]

57 minutes ago, Ookla the Paradigm said:

@JNV would you be willing to poison me? If I know the answer to my yes/no question is false, it's a better tool. 

Its a night action though so like yeah Im down but that means hold your question till D2

Anyway I think its a good point on the Matrim vote but I have to go for like three hours so Im going to placeholder No Vote until I get back and can like actually think about the case Ill definitely be back before rollover though dont worry

[Aeoryi]

No vote.

Imma scan Mat today and we'll see where that gets us

[Haelbarde]

Vote Tally
(0) Devotary: Resolute{1}
(0) Ravens: Destined{1}
(2) Destined/Mat: Ravens{1}, Pardigm{2}, Hael{2}
(1) Hael: Destined{2}
(0) JNV: Resolute{2}
(0) Paradigm/Archer: Devotary{1}
(1) Resolute/Aeoryi: Paradigm{1}, Raveness{1}
(0) Raveness/Wizard: Devotary{2}
(2) No Execution: Hael{1}, JNV{1}, Resolute{3}

(2) Destined/Mat: Pardigm, Hael
(2) No Execution: JNV, Resolute
(1) Hael: Destined
(1) Resolute/Aeoryi: Raveness

[Archer]

My initial preference for a No Vote C1 gives way to the upside of a Mat flip specifically. If we get an elim flip, we still have C2 when we can exe with impunity. If we skip this exe, we guarantee we can vote C2, but who were we going to vote for anyway besides Mat? He can poison two of us

37 minutes ago, Haelbarde said:

.

I've not ruled out claiming yet, but I've not spent enough time considering the matter. I don't immediately see the value in doing so. Well, maybe. Give me a little longer to think

I'm not going to force you to claim, but there is reputational costs to delaying. There's no reason for the Forsaken not to bus, so I'm not easily clearing you. Might have been more willing if you'd claimed earlier. 

This game is designed in a way that makes mass claiming a great village strat (balanced by the e!Innkeeper probably). If you can reasonably claim a role, I'll be more inclined to revisit existing claims. Until then, you're the obvious choice. 

Just now, JNV said:

Its a night action though so like yeah Im down but that means hold your question till D2

Anyway I think its a good point on the Matrim vote but I have to go for like three hours so Im going to placeholder No Vote until I get back and can like actually think about the case Ill definitely be back before rollover though dont worry

It's probably for the best that I hold my question anyway. If its accuracy can be guaranteed, and our suspect pool has narrowed, I'll probably use it to guess at Forsaken candidates to inform the C3 exe. 

3 minutes ago, Ookla the Resolute said:

No vote.

Imma scan Mat today and we'll see where that gets us

 

That can be affected by poison and relies on your word. A public flip is way more reliable, and then unlocks his alignment clears as trustworthy. Or more likely shows he's evil 

Do you have someone you'd inclined to exe C2 besides Mat? Otherwise, let's do it now. 

[Aeoryi]

Just now, Ookla the Paradigm said:

My initial preference for a No Vote C1 gives way to the upside of a Mat flip specifically. If we get an elim flip, we still have C2 when we can exe with impunity. If we skip this exe, we guarantee we can vote C2, but who were we going to vote for anyway besides Mat? He can poison two of us

I'm not going to force you to claim, but there is reputational costs to delaying. There's no reason for the Forsaken not to bus, so I'm not easily clearing you. Might have been more willing if you'd claimed earlier. 

This game is designed in a way that makes mass claiming a great village strat (balanced by the e!Innkeeper probably). If you can reasonably claim a role, I'll be more inclined to revisit existing claims. Until then, you're the obvious choice. 

It's probably for the best that I hold my question anyway. If its accuracy can be guaranteed, and our suspect pool has narrowed, I'll probably use it to guess at Forsaken candidates to inform the C3 exe. 

That can be affected by poison and relies on your word. A public flip is way more reliable, and then unlocks his alignment clears as trustworthy. Or more likely shows he's evil 

Do you have someone you'd inclined to exe C2 besides Mat? Otherwise, let's do it now. 

You? 

Either way, I'm going to scan someone and I mean even if the info might not be right at least it exists 

[Archer]

Just now, Ookla the Resolute said:

You? 

Either way, I'm going to scan someone and I mean even if the info might not be right at least it exists 

A little redundant given that Devo scanned me, but ok

Suppose you green scan Mat and we don't waste our exe because of that. That means we get to try one other person with our exe. Or you can exe Mat now, and try one other person with your scan. Same result to you, but exing Mat publicly establishes the reliability of his scans, which are more directly useful. Or shows he's evil, which is also good to determine with certainty. We wouldn't bother exing Mat next cycle anyway since he's probably not the Forsaken. We'd just probably know he's evil. Whereas exing him now definitely shows he's evil as we take our two shots at the Forsaken. 

[Mat]

2 hours ago, Ookla the Resolute said:

I have the GM fact checker role who should I scan? Archer? Maybe Mat? Or JNV?

You do you, not my role. Feel free to do me if you want I suppose.

2 hours ago, JNV said:

Apothecary which is the poison role but I didnt poison anyone cause like kinda no point in tainting the pool of info gatherers and stuff right off the bat oh but @Ookla the Destined I found out if I poison you then the people you target wont get drunk not sure if that helps considering it makes your numbers wrong but like if we coordinate its still usable information the number you get like not zero oh at least ones evil not one oh either teamed or innocent not two oh well that ones the least useful but not teamed 

I'm attached to my scans because they're my scans and I kind of just want to use them for that purpose, like doing this works but also I might as well just not use my action.

Without it, I can get scans that I potentially know are legit (barring e!you I guess, or e!Hael who isn't claiming?) and the people I scan will know to just go with the opposite of whatever result they got. So I think it makes more sense to not do this.

2 hours ago, Ookla the Raveness said:

Wait huh? I can only get one villager, one darkfriend, and one Forsaken. One of these has been already given but not true to what Aeo really is. So...yes 2/3 on no taint, but no on taint?

I just mean that your role is only useful after you have three names, right? Like right now all you know is that Aeo is a villager or a darkfriend or a Forsaken. Because I targeted you, Aeo's name was the first thing RNGd. So it's the same as RNGing a regular suspicion.

1 hour ago, Ookla the Paradigm said:

Mat made the two points I was going to as I read the most recent discussion: JNV late claiming is huh, and what they said about Resolute. Mind meld is real, which is why I'm reconsidering my initial e!read of them. 

Fair point that this is what Mat should have done. What poisoner messes with our info roles? 

Mat would say he got two scans out of it. But he wasn't in a rush to present that info. 

He offered to role claim because he's gotten burned being the last person to claim before, and he has the luxury of having an unaffiliated role. But even then he wasn't jumping to claim it, he had to be asked. If you have two villagers, do you not just blow your cover and mention that? 

Mat started off the game saying he trusted me for the mind meld, and I don't believe Mat gives me trust for just good observations. He'll trust me for doing something brazen, but not just for good points that early. Mat also deferred to me at one point, and it felt uncharacteristicly passive. 

I've talked myself back into a Mat exe. I strongly believe he's evil, which means we still get two shots at the Forsaken. No-claim Hael is probably my Forsaken  suspect right now, followed by maybe Devo. They tripped some alarms I need to explore later.

See, I told you  

Archer, how do you expect me to coordinate with JNV on a cycle where we haven't claimed and JNV wasn't online :P. I don't exactly want to waste my role, and being drunk is only harmful if you don't know you are.

I wasn't in a rush to claim because I figured we probably would be claiming anyway. You'll notice that I was the first person to claim after you advocated for it, and I did so quickly. I didn't see the benefit of running into the thread with two v scans that are probably reliable and would be explained later when more people were present/also sharing. I don't think the tone of the thread was "claim if you have information". Most of us got information :P. We shared it as we claimed, which we decided to do when we decided to do it. Two villagers wasn't enough for me to blow my cover. Four, tomorrow? Sure. An elim? Definitely.

I'm kinda sad that gut reads apparently aren't really a thing anymore. Back in my day you weren't sussed for making a read D1 :P. Also I really wish you'd stop telling me how I play and how I read you lol we've had this conversation before

Exeing anyone, not just me, would be a foolish thing to do D1. We already talked about this. No execution. If y'all want to clear my slot D2 that's fine but there is literally no incentive to doing it D1.

[Aeoryi]

9 minutes ago, Ookla the Paradigm said:

A little redundant given that Devo scanned me, but ok

Suppose you green scan Mat and we don't waste our exe because of that. That means we get to try one other person with our exe. Or you can exe Mat now, and try one other person with your scan. Same result to you, but exing Mat publicly establishes the reliability of his scans, which are more directly useful. Or shows he's evil, which is also good to determine with certainty. We wouldn't bother exing Mat next cycle anyway since he's probably not the Forsaken. We'd just probably know he's evil. Whereas exing him now definitely shows he's evil as we take our two shots at the Forsaken. 

How was i supposed to know that Devo scanned you again

[Haelbarde]

13 minutes ago, Ookla the Destined said:

Exeing anyone, not just me, would be a foolish thing to do D1. We already talked about this. No execution. If y'all want to clear my slot D2 that's fine but there is literally no incentive to doing it D1.

There's incentive in that it lets other information gathering roles to operate on confidently on knowledge gained by your claims during the next cycle, rather than waiting until the last cycle, and having more chances of a bubble of evil messing things up.

Now, that being said, thinking about my role further, and checking with Kas about the interpretation of rules, I do have interesting information to bring to the table now. 

My role is the that of Elder. At the end of Night 0 I was told that two players (JNV and Raveness/Wizard) are not the Forsaken.

With Destined/Mat having claimed to make me drunk, I figured there was little point to sharing the information, as I had interpreted falsifying my information as meaning that "these players cannot be the Forsaken" would be turned into "these players might not be the Forsaken", which is effectively useless. Everyone knows that any collection of other players might not be the Forsaken. 

However, the other way of looking at it, and I think this is the correct way to interpret it, if I am drunk, and so my information has to be false, then the only way that my information is false is if one of the two indicated players (JNV and Raveness/Wizard) is the Forsaken.

And that makes things interesting.

The options are as follows, provided there was no interference from a bubble of evil:

• Destined/Mat is a Village Innkeeper. They scanned Raveness/Wizard and I as village, but made me drunk, meaning that one of JNV or Raveness/Wizard is the Forsaken. And with Mat scanning Raveness/Wizard as village, that means JNV is the Forsaken.
• Destined/Mat is the Forsaken. Then I was not drunk last night, and so I have an independent scan of JNV and Raveness/Wizard being village.
• Destined/Mat is a Darkfriend Innkeeper. In which case I am drunk, and one of Raveness/Wizard and JNV is the Forsaken, but we can no longer rely on Destined/Mat's scan of Raveness/Wizard being accurate. 

I need to work through what the best course of action is now though. Without thinking about it further, I'll keep on Destined/Mat as I would like to know how to interpret my information. 

[JNV]

5 minutes ago, Haelbarde said:

• Destined/Mat is a Village Innkeeper. They scanned Raveness/Wizard and I as village, but made me drunk, meaning that one of JNV or Raveness/Wizard is the Forsaken. And with Mat scanning Raveness/Wizard as village, that means JNV is the Forsaken.
• Destined/Mat is the Forsaken. Then I was not drunk last night, and so I have an independent scan of JNV and Raveness/Wizard being village.
• Destined/Mat is a Darkfriend Innkeeper. In which case I am drunk, and one of Raveness/Wizard and JNV is the Forsaken, but we can no longer rely on Destined/Mat's scan of Raveness/Wizard being accurate. 

Well from my POV either Matrims evil or youre evil and Im inclined to think worse of Matrim and like if theyre red they wont count against our one villager vote limit and if theyre green then I guess I get like severely incriminated but Ill know in my heart its you anyway my three hour thing got delayed an hour so now it will cross past rollover and I might not make it back so bye

[Aeoryi]

10 minutes ago, JNV said:

Well from my POV either Matrims evil or youre evil and Im inclined to think worse of Matrim and like if theyre red they wont count against our one villager vote limit and if theyre green then I guess I get like severely incriminated but Ill know in my heart its you anyway my three hour thing got delayed an hour so now it will cross past rollover and I might not make it back so bye

I have an idea

1. Exe Matriam

2. I scan Devo

3. Happy

[Mat]

12 minutes ago, Haelbarde said:

There's incentive in that it lets other information gathering roles to operate on confidently on knowledge gained by your claims during the next cycle, rather than waiting until the last cycle, and having more chances of a bubble of evil messing things up.

But what are you going to do next turn, when I flip village? You're not exactly going to be jumping to exe someone else-- I certainly won't. We absolutely should wait until D3 to do that. If you wait until D2 to exe me/whoever, the only difference is that you're buying yourself more time to gather information.

Come D3, all the info will still be there. It doesn't really matter when I'm confirmed, except for that it's more useful to wait. From my PoV yall are shooting yourself in the foot here by exeing me because you're successfully decreasing the amount of info gathering time right after we agreed we wanted to maximize that time.

If you think JNV is Forsaken in 2/3 worlds, why are you voting me?

16 minutes ago, Haelbarde said:

However, the other way of looking at it, and I think this is the correct way to interpret it, if I am drunk, and so my information has to be false, then the only way that my information is false is if one of the two indicated players (JNV and Raveness/Wizard) is the Forsaken.

Um, well, can you like ask the GMs how it works, because they said you could do that for specific roles and that seems like really useful information  The only things stopping me from voting JNV mainly are that we don't actually know how your role works and that your claim seems literally perfect for a Forsaken to make. Like, you waited until everyone else had claimed, and then claimed a role that requires zero accountability for the rest of the game?

[JNV]

4 minutes ago, Ookla the Destined said:

Um, well, can you like ask the GMs how it works, because they said you could do that for specific roles and that seems like really useful information  The only things stopping me from voting JNV mainly are that we don't actually know how your role works and that your claim seems literally perfect for a Forsaken to make. Like, you waited until everyone else had claimed, and then claimed a role that requires zero accountability for the rest of the game?

Thats how itd work like poisoned Elder would get two people for which the statement these two are not the Forsaken is false so one would be the Forsaken I did get an answer on this point hence why Im voting you and if you flip green next time Ill be voting Haelbarde so yeah