Mid-Range Game 65: Set on Infiltration

[DeTess]

Okay, so if I understand it correctly, there are two options now:

• Wizard was the one moving the vote, and is lying about it, and therefore likely evil.
• TKN was the one that moved the votes and is lying about ti, there fore likely evil.

Well, that seems simple enough to resolve then. Don't trust either of them, but trust Wizard less.

[Archer]

Wiz Araris

I'll elaborate on this change of heart as much as I've elaborated on the backstory of Jaxson Jumpers. 

So, not at all

[Aeoryi]

Vote count:

Wandering Wizard (3): Raven, DeTess, Aeoryi

Araris (1): Archer

TKn (1): Araris

@The Wandering Wizard I would appreciate it if you voted some time.

[The Unknown Ajah]

Walk in, vote Araris, do not elaborate, walk away.

Edited September 29, 2023 by The Known Novel

[Experience]

The cycle is now over.

[Experience]

There isn't much discussion anymore. The list was changed again, but it seems that many members of the group are not too worried about that. During the night a few rest, but unbeknownst to them the rest are still awake and scheming quietly in the corner. A theory is made: maybe the leader of the Set already knows who the traitors are, and is only testing his fellow members. And so a plan is formed, and executed the same day.

They attempt to protect themselves, but still, one of their own is found the next morning with a knife in their chest. It is decided that Darth Wizard was the one to blame, as how could anyone with such a name be anything but evil.

The list is changed, but there is no response from the balcony. Had they guessed wrong? Or was the theory just a theory after all?

---

PMs are still open!

The Wandering Wizard was killed! They were an Infiltrator! They were also a Soother!

Archer was killed! They were a Member of the Set! They were also a Tineye

---

Vote Count:

Wandering Wizard (3): Raven, DeTess, Aeoryi

Araris (2): Archer, TKN

TKN (0): Araris

DeTess (1)

---

Cycle 4 Alignment List:

Aeoryi: Member of the Set

The Known Novel: Member of the Set

Araris Valerian: Infiltrator

DeTess: Member of the Set

JNV: Member of the Set

RavenclawJedi: Member of the Set

 

Player List:

Spoiler

@Archer - Member of the Set

@Aeoryi 

@The Known Novel 

@Matrim's Dice - Regretful Agent

@The Wandering Wizard Infiltrator

@Araris Valerian

@DeTess

@Labyrinth - Member of the Set

@JNV 

@Fifth Scholar

@STINK - Member of the Set

@Ravenclawjedi42

 

---

@Fifth Scholar has replaced JNV, please welcome them to the game!

Edited September 29, 2023 by Devotary of Spontaneity

[The Unknown Ajah]

I guess nothing special happens when the list is correct. Or I guess it could be wrong, but I kinda doubt it.

[Aeoryi]

32 minutes ago, The Known Novel said:

I guess nothing special happens when the list is correct. Or I guess it could be wrong, but I kinda doubt it.

@Fifth Scholar hello! May you be eternally more active than your predecessor.

Can you say something? Any reads? 

[Araris Valerian]

Isn't it obvious? I'm the last elim, all of Wiz's voting was just an attempt to distance from me. Since we had a 2-person team, clearly our optimal strategy was to build our entire strategy around one of us dying and the other solo-killing the rest of the village.

[Aeoryi]

hm... elim throwing?

araris (I think this is red help I'm colorblind)

[DeTess]

@The Known Novel, did you use your role? Trying to track down what happened to the vot here. My theory is you adding a vote to me as a demonstration of how the ability works and wizard adding one to Araris to try to tie things up. Is that correct or did wizard just randomly slap a vote on me?

[Aeoryi]

4 minutes ago, DeTess said:

@The Known Novel, did you use your role? Trying to track down what happened to the vot here. My theory is you adding a vote to me as a demonstration of how the ability works and wizard adding one to Araris to try to tie things up. Is that correct or did wizard just randomly slap a vote on me?

Apparently, rioting just adds a vote to the target, at the cost of your own vote. So basically you anonomusly move your vote.

4 hours ago, The Known Novel said:

I guess nothing special happens when the list is correct. Or I guess it could be wrong, but I kinda doubt it.

Wiz is listed gren on the alignment list, which could be stopping that. I can't believe they got archer, but they did. @Experience, is the lynchee supposed to show up on the alignment list? Because archer isn't there, but wiz is. Is this a mistake, or intentional?

[Experience]

3 minutes ago, Aeoryi said:

Apparently, rioting just adds a vote to the target, at the cost of your own vote. So basically you anonomusly move your vote.

Wiz is listed gren on the alignment list, which could be stopping that. I can't believe they got archer, but they did. @Experience, is the lynchee supposed to show up on the alignment list? Because archer isn't there, but wiz is. Is this a mistake, or intentional?

Yeah that's a mistake. It's fixed now.

[Aeoryi]

Okay. People. Araris today? or Araris next cycle? They haven't lied about being a tineye (probably) but they have claimed elim. The mind games are getting to me.

[DeTess]

31 minutes ago, Aeoryi said:

Okay. People. Araris today? or Araris next cycle? They haven't lied about being a tineye (probably) but they have claimed elim. The mind games are getting to me.

Pretty sure their claim was sarcasm. I do feel araris and wizard are too connected so we need to exe Araris, but I'll also be looking for alternatives in case it wasn't Araris after all.

And yeah, I know how soother was explained by TKN, but I want to know who soothed where this cycle in case there are anh oddities there.

[The Unknown Ajah]

@Experience, is the VC accurate, specifically the count on me?

[DeTess]

Doing some analysis on wizard's actions so far.

Feel pretty confident that TKN is village given how wizard sniped that vote in to tie them. Plus, you know, the whole 'elims probably don't have double vote manip in a game this size'.

There is the vote on Araris that feels like it should preclude them working together, except they knew they would be losing that vote again when doing their manip to stink, so that could have been distancing as well. Also there was this post by Araris:

which kinda feels like Araris trying to protect wizard before a train could gains team (only archer had voted wizard at that point). so yeah, feeling confident about an Araris vote at this point

And that's it pretty much. Wizard had an early interaction with Mat, but Mat is already dead so that's a dead end as well.

Looking at the votes last cycle, Aeoryi and raven also look good. Like, the only way those votes cold be suspicious is if Araris was also an elim and the elism were forced to bus, but I don't think there were three elims.

So excluding Araris (who is my top suspect, this si really just analysis for the case in which he flips village) the only real suspect left is JNV, which I don't like (only makes sense if JNV could be puppeted, or the elims could both do their role action and the elim kill at the same time). Honestly, this reinforces the idea that it has to be Araris more than anything.

[Fifth Scholar]

14 hours ago, Aeoryi said:

@Fifth Scholar hello! May you be eternally more active than your predecessor.

Can you say something? Any reads? 

Reads are an interesting ask, given that I just now substituted in and have not been paying attention to the game beyond the fact that I am reasonably sure that the alignment list probably isn’t 100% trustworthy  

…but everyone seems to want Araris dead anyway.  Okay, I’ll backread when I get off my shift in ~6 hours, but until then, I’d appreciate a quick rundown of relevant public information (especially role-claims) because looking at what JNV has, I’m interested in what’s been said.

[DeTess]

Just now, Fifth Scholar said:

…but everyone seems to want Araris dead anyway.  Okay, I’ll backread when I get off my shift in ~6 hours, but until then, I’d appreciate a quick rundown of relevant public information (especially role-claims) because looking at what JNV has, I’m interested in what’s been said.

So the following has been said regarding roleclaims:

• Aeoryi claimed Thug, which in addition to the standard extra life can change one name on the list from red to green or the other way around.
• TKN claimed Soother which can either remove one vote, or add a vote to someone while removing the soothers vote.
• Araris claimed tin-eye, which keeps the PM's open.
• I claimed... some complicated BS meant to mask the fact that I'm a lurcher, except anyone who targets the one I lurch gets roleblocked. I can't target the same person twice in a row, which is why I came up with some complicated BS when I claimed C2 to explain the lack of NK as I didn't want to get hit again while I couldn't self-protect.

Regarding the list, apart from manipulation by thugs it also colors the name of the person with the second-most votes red.

[Fifth Scholar]

1 minute ago, DeTess said:

So the following has been said regarding roleclaims:

• Aeoryi claimed Thug, which in addition to the standard extra life can change one name on the list from red to green or the other way around.
• TKN claimed Soother which can either remove one vote, or add a vote to someone while removing the soothers vote.
• Araris claimed tin-eye, which keeps the PM's open.
• I claimed... some complicated BS meant to mask the fact that I'm a lurcher, except anyone who targets the one I lurch gets roleblocked. I can't target the same person twice in a row, which is why I came up with some complicated BS when I claimed C2 to explain the lack of NK as I didn't want to get hit again while I couldn't self-protect.

Regarding the list, apart from manipulation by thugs it also colors the name of the person with the second-most votes red.

Appreciate it. Well, I’m a Tineye, and Araris isn’t lying about what it does (it keeps PMs open, no special actions). Curious that we have three, apparently, as that seems steep regardless of Araris’ alignment. Also curious that we have the public alignment list and no roles which apparently interact with it in terms of actually caring about what it says (yes, Thugs can change it, but they don’t otherwise change based on what the list says). Maybe that was literally just Mat? 

Honestly the only thing stopping me from joining the Araris train at this point is my respect for him as a player, and a feeling that he’d have distanced better from Wiz. Otherwise a Soother/Tineye pair feels…reasonable? I think there’s still a piece of this puzzle missing, though. 

[DeTess]

12 minutes ago, Fifth Scholar said:

 Also curious that we have the public alignment list and no roles which apparently interact with it in terms of actually caring about what it says (yes, Thugs can change it, but they don’t otherwise change based on what the list says). Maybe that was literally just Mat? 

As far as we know right now, only Mat's role cared about it.

[Aeoryi]

8 minutes ago, DeTess said:

So the following has been said regarding roleclaims:

• Aeoryi claimed Thug, which in addition to the standard extra life can change one name on the list from red to green or the other way around.
• TKN claimed Soother which can either remove one vote, or add a vote to someone while removing the soothers vote.
• Araris claimed tin-eye, which keeps the PM's open.
• I claimed... some complicated BS meant to mask the fact that I'm a lurcher, except anyone who targets the one I lurch gets roleblocked. I can't target the same person twice in a row, which is why I came up with some complicated BS when I claimed C2 to explain the lack of NK as I didn't want to get hit again while I couldn't self-protect.

Regarding the list, apart from manipulation by thugs it also colors the name of the person with the second-most votes red.

Spoiler

Okay, so basically:

Alive players:

- Aeoryi: Thug. Extra life, can switch one alignment (to the opposite color) on the alignment list.

- Araris: Tineye. PMs are open so long as a Tineye remains.

- DeTess: Lurcher. Role-blocks anyone who targets the target of the Lurcher. Cannot lurch same target twice.

- TKN: Soother. Can either surpress one vote or add a vote to a target at the cost of his vote.

- Ravenclawjedi42: Vanilla. No abilities.

- Fifth: Tineye. PMs stay open as long as one Tineye lives.

Dead players:

- Labyrinth: Vanilla Set

- Mat: Regretful agent. Neutral role. If all names on the alignment list are green, he becomes village. If all names are red, he becomes Elim. Can change the alignment of one player on the list.

- Archer: Tineye. PMs stay open as long as one Tineye lives.

- Stink: Soother. Can either surpress a vote or add a vote at the cost of his own.

- Wiz: Soother. can either surpress a vote or add a vote at the cost of his own.

 

15 minutes ago, Fifth Scholar said:

Appreciate it. Well, I’m a Tineye, and Araris isn’t lying about what it does (it keeps PMs open, no special actions). Curious that we have three, apparently, as that seems steep regardless of Araris’ alignment. Also curious that we have the public alignment list and no roles which apparently interact with it in terms of actually caring about what it says (yes, Thugs can change it, but they don’t otherwise change based on what the list says). Maybe that was literally just Mat? 

Honestly the only thing stopping me from joining the Araris train at this point is my respect for him as a player, and a feeling that he’d have distanced better from Wiz. Otherwise a Soother/Tineye pair feels…reasonable? I think there’s still a piece of this puzzle missing, though. 

Well, archer was originally gonna do our grandmaster plan to get both elims red on Araris, and for good reason. We switched to wiz because it wouldn't kill PMs (which at the time no one knew there was a third Tineye).

[Ravenclawjedi42]

15 hours ago, Aeoryi said:

Okay. People. Araris today? or Araris next cycle? They haven't lied about being a tineye (probably) but they have claimed elim. The mind games are getting to me.

I think we should do Araris today. He definitely seemed the most suspicious to me, and though he claimed elim which makes me kind of skeptical, I think that more than anything he was trying to get votes off himself.

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

7 hours ago, The Known Novel said:

@Experience, is the VC accurate, specifically the count on me?

It was not. Fixed.

[Araris Valerian]

5 hours ago, Fifth Scholar said:

Honestly the only thing stopping me from joining the Araris train at this point is my respect for him as a player

I mean, I personally consider murder the highest form of respect around here, so don't let that get in your way .

5 hours ago, Aeoryi said:

Okay, so basically:

Alive players:

- Aeoryi: Thug. Extra life, can switch one alignment (to the opposite color) on the alignment list.

- Araris: Tineye. PMs are open so long as a Tineye remains.

- DeTess: Lurcher. Role-blocks anyone who targets the target of the Lurcher. Cannot lurch same target twice.

- TKN: Soother. Can either surpress one vote or add a vote to a target at the cost of his vote.

- Ravenclawjedi42: Vanilla. No abilities.

- Fifth: Tineye. PMs stay open as long as one Tineye lives.

Dead players:

- Labyrinth: Vanilla Set

- Mat: Regretful agent. Neutral role. If all names on the alignment list are green, he becomes village. If all names are red, he becomes Elim. Can change the alignment of one player on the list.

- Archer: Tineye. PMs stay open as long as one Tineye lives.

- Stink: Soother. Can either surpress a vote or add a vote at the cost of his own.

- Wiz: Soother. can either surpress a vote or add a vote at the cost of his own.

This list makes me quite suspicious of DeTess, actually. It seems implausible to me that the village would have both a Thug and a Lurcher in this small of a game. The only mechanical confirmation of her role is the lack of the C1 kill, which is looking more and more like a variation on a WGG to me.

Actually, not sure if I buy Fifth's claim either. Having 3 Tineyes in an 11-player game is functionally the same as having 0 Tineyes and PMs just always open. Since open PMs generally benefit the village, in the world where I'm elim my role is actively detrimental to my team (especially given my lack of PM manipulation in my prior elim games).

Aeoryi's Thug claim is also unconfirmed, and seems odd, because it makes her the only player in the game with 2 roles, while there are (apparently) 2 vanilla players. Given the lack of village kill roles, Thug seems like it would autoconfirm someone as village, which is a balance issue for someone with a bonus life.

Vanilla can only be confirmed by terminal Seeking, so there is no reason to trust that Raven is actually vanilla.

TKN is my only solid village read right now. He's definitely a Soother, and I can't see the elims having 2 of those.

If I get exed today, I'd ask you guys to exe DeTess first and then Aeoryi if DeTess flips green. There's no way both of them are village.

Edit: I have to add the significant caveat that trying to guess the mind of the GM is generally a bad idea. But IDK where else to go with this

Edited September 29, 2023 by Araris Valerian