How reliable a narrator is Hoid?

[Lesser spren]

While I think Hoid's retelling is largely accurate there are a few "creative liberties" he appears to have taken (The character's refering to their crewmates as the Dougs, comments about your uncle etc.) Thus it stands to reason there may be a few other things Hoid may not be completely truthful about, Thereby leaving us with a few unanswered questions (Was Hoid's portrayal of Ulim accurate? Do the farting Pancake people even exist? If so which shard is responsible for their creation and why is it cultivation) I am eager to hear your thoughts on which things Hoid may or may not be truthful on.

[alder24]

12 hours ago, Lesser spren said:

While I think Hoid's retelling is largely accurate there are a few "creative liberties" he appears to have taken (The character's refering to their crewmates as the Dougs, comments about your uncle etc.) Thus it stands to reason there may be a few other things Hoid may not be completely truthful about, Thereby leaving us with a few unanswered questions (Was Hoid's portrayal of Ulim accurate? Do the farting Pancake people even exist? If so which shard is responsible for their creation and why is it cultivation) I am eager to hear your thoughts on which things Hoid may or may not be truthful on.

I think he is mostly truthful, mainly because in WoR he told Jasnah that he spent a month or so in a stomach of a giant fish, and later (or earlier) Lift said she saw him being swallowed by a giant fish - he already proven to us that some ridiculous things which he says are true. In this case he clearly took some artistic liberties like calling all crewmen Doug, calling laptops a magical table etc, but for us readers it's almost clear why. He called everyone Doug, so the listeners won't get distracted by them, as they're not important to the story. Laptops aren't important to the story as well and he doesn't want to explain to his audience what they are.

That being said, he may get things wrong, intentionally or unintentionally. I think Hoid's portrayal of Ulim is accurate as during Era 2 we already saw similar behavior of other Kandra. Pancake land is likely a joke, I don't want to even imagine this place existing in Comsere (but if they do exist, it's Whimsy).

Spoiler

Zabeesh

If the moons are constantly pouring out spores, how do the oceans not fill up? Do they degrade eventually, or is there another method?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, they degrade eventually. I'll be perfectly frank with you: my science on this, I have not gone to all of my normal science routes. The only one of the Secret Projects that we did a lot of the scientific work on is Four, because of how tied into the rest of the Cosmere it is. I have some sort of plausible wiggle room on Book One, because Hoid is telling the story, and he can get some things wrong.

[...]

Tress Spoiler Stream (March 31, 2023)

 

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

So, as you might have figured out, this is written in Hoid/Wit’s voice. It’s a novel length Hoid story, like the Dog and the Dragon or Wandersail–except 100,000 words long. A few notes to make.

1. Yes, he’s telling the story in-world to someone. You might be able to pick up some of the context of who he’s talking to–but it’s not meant to be explicitly obvious. You don’t need to stress about that, as it’s not relevant to the story. Just know that this isn’t written to you (you don’t exist in the cosmere) but is instead meant to be him telling the story to someone in the cosmere listening.
2. In this case (unlike some of his stories) he’s chronicling actual events in the cosmere. Meaning, Tress is a real person from the cosmere, and her world is an actual place–neither are Hoid inventions. He takes a few liberties in the narrative, but mostly, this is canon. And can be assumed as such. Though the story isn’t about him, he has a role to play in it, and you’ll find out why he’s there through the course of the book.
3. This slightly fairy tale vibe, then, is intentional. I wouldn’t personally consider this a children’s book, though. It’s meant to be something more like the Princess Bride. As you get further into it, the fairy tale vibe fades a little (but not completely) into an epic fantasy–though one filtered through the prose and voice of a storyteller sitting down to tell about one of his adventures.

And speaking of the Princess Bride… that was actually a direct inspiration. This book came about because I showed the Princess Bride to my kids for the first time. I love that movie, and still do–as does my wife. But after the movie, we were chatting, and she made the observation that the princess from the film isn’t terribly… proactive. (To put it mildly.) The story is named after her, but she doesn’t actually DO anything.

She can’t even effectively hit a giant rat with a stick. The prompt for me, then, came when she asked, “Why did Buttercup just sit around after she heard her love had been taken by pirates? Wasn’t there anything she could have done?”

That’s where it started. It mixed with me wanting to find places to work in the Aethers (which are very relevant to the later cosmere) into a book somewhere. That, plus my love of the process of fluidization (where a granulated material, like sand, behaves somewhat like a liquid when air is forced through it.) I rammed these things together. A world where people sail upon powder or dust, instead of water. A way to start introducing the aethers to people as a cosmere magic. And the basic premise: What if Buttercup were more proactive?

The result is Tress of the Emerald Sea. A tale of pirates, dangerous spores, and (because Hoid is involved) occasional self-important monologues. It will be the first of the four books in our Year of Sanderson Kickstarter, and will ship to you January 2023.

Secret Project #1 Reveal and Livestream (March 3, 2022)

 

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood]

On 5/19/2023 at 3:33 PM, Lesser spren said:

Do the farting Pancake people even exist? If so which shard is responsible for their creation and why is it cultivation) I am eager to hear your thoughts on which things Hoid may or may not be truthful on.

 

On 5/20/2023 at 4:04 AM, alder24 said:

Pancake land is likely a joke, I don't want to even imagine this place existing in Comsere (but if they do exist, it's Whimsy).

 

We all know that Lift will take control of the Shard of Cultivation and make a pancake world. Thus, creating the tenth pancake

[Iron-Eyes]

I'm not sure whether or not they exist but I hope they do

[Lego Mistborn]

On 5/19/2023 at 6:33 PM, Lesser spren said:

Do the farting Pancake people even exist?

Of course they exist. In fact, it is my pleasure to announce here for the first time that Sanderson himself has tapped me to create a comic book rendition of Hoid's visit to said pancake people.

It is set to release this summer in anticipation of Stormlight V and will be distributed for free here on the shard.

Spoiler

To clear up any legal issues, I'd like to clearly state that said comic book creation is a fan work and not affiliated in any official capacity with Brandon Sanderson or his Cosmere, and may not be construed to imply any relationship between myself and Brandon, Dragonsteel, or Tor Books, except that of reader(Me) and author (Sando).

 

Edited February 4 by Lego Mistborn
Spelling

[Forts Board]

Hoid is always exactly as reliable a narrator as he wants to be.

[Duxredux]

I'd guess that we as an audience can assume that what he says on the whole is technically the truth with narrative liberties to enhance the storytelling. That said, anyone in-world better believe that Hoid can make technically true statements that make a corkscrew look like a ruler and needs to seriously question his motives any time he opens his mouth.

[The Sibling]

On 5/20/2023 at 7:04 AM, alder24 said:

 

  Hide contents

Zabeesh

If the moons are constantly pouring out spores, how do the oceans not fill up? Do they degrade eventually, or is there another method?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, they degrade eventually. I'll be perfectly frank with you: my science on this, I have not gone to all of my normal science routes. The only one of the Secret Projects that we did a lot of the scientific work on is Four, because of how tied into the rest of the Cosmere it is. I have some sort of plausible wiggle room on Book One, because Hoid is telling the story, and he can get some things wrong.

[...]

Tress Spoiler Stream (March 31, 2023)

 

I guess to me this has to mean that if Brandon ever needs to retcon something about how the spores work because it doesn't actually make sense, then this is so he'll be able to say that "Hold go it wrong". I think that I'm fine with that, especially because at least to me, it makes sense that Hoid would exaggerate things or guess about certain things to make his story better. Maybe he was less sure of how the aether work than he acted. 

[Leuthie]

On 2/5/2024 at 7:44 AM, Duxredux said:

I'd guess that we as an audience can assume that what he says on the whole is technically the truth with narrative liberties to enhance the storytelling. That said, anyone in-world better believe that Hoid can make technically true statements that make a corkscrew look like a ruler and needs to seriously question his motives any time he opens his mouth.

This is how you should look at Hoid. It's also how you should look at anything you read on the internet: He's telling the truth, but he's telling it his way for his purposes. Hoid is 'lowercase t' truth.