"I write these words in steel, for anything not set in metal cannot be trusted."

[+robardin]

27 minutes ago, Argenti said:

I mean, it has been a thousand years, and that's a while for anything not written in metal to last. I bet according to steel ministry cannon, Rashek had no kids, but the cannon is wrong, with bastards and all that.

Not gonna lie, occasionally I had fun constructing a scene in my head where that one king from 1,000 years ago got frozen out of a lerasium bead for some petty reason of Rashek's, like taking too long to come around.

 

King10: All right, Rashek, I've reconsidered your offer, and have decided it's too attractive to pass up. (Kneeling) I will join my nation to yours, and swear fealty to you as The Lord Ruler.

Rashek: That's right, I'm The Lord Ruler to you now, don't you ever call me Rashek again. EVER. Your service is accepted, and your house shall be Great in my Final Empire!

King10: Yes, Lord Ruler! Thank you, Lord Ruler! (bows deeply, waits expectantly)

Rashek: Well? Why are you still here?

King10: Ah, well, you see, when you got all of us kings together in a room yesterday and offered us positions of power under you if we would be the first to kneel, well, Eric Kell and Haestentz agreed immediately, and this morning I saw them flying -

Rashek: Yes, those who supported my rule immediately were given great power. I call it Allomancy. I made them dominant!

King10: Umm... That was... Just yesterday....

Rashek: Sorry, I'm all out of upgrades.

King10: What?

Rashek: You heard me. The Allomancy Dispensary is no longer open for business. Bye-bye! Walky-walky out the doorie for King10! No magic powers!

King10: But... But ---

Rashek: Do you dare to retract your fealty to my face?! (Begins Steelpushing King10 out the door)

NARRATOR: King10 kept whining to TLR, and eventually, was made into the first Inquisitor to shut him up.

Edited April 16 by robardin

[+robardin]

Oh, and back to the actual topic of the OP of this thread:

On 4/7/2023 at 3:42 AM, Merik said:

How did Kwaan know to write in metal?

"I write these words in steel, for anything not set in metal cannot be trusted."

This is how Kwaan begins his inscription in Well of Ascension. But we don't know how Kwaan came to realize that it is safe to write in metal.

Kwaan figured out that something is changing the written history:  ...

From the changes he derived that this something want Alendi to set free the power at the Well of Ascension instead of the original ...

But after the initial "anything not set in metal cannot be trusted", he never again mentions how he knows this. ...

Kwaan only knows that metalminds aren't safe and that written words in books aren't safe.

So why would he be throughly convinced of the fact that combining these methods by using written words on metal would be safe from changes?

I would say the obvious answer is, through practical experimentation.

Remember, Kwaan was able to see through or past Ruin's changes in writen texts and the contents of copperminds (that even if Ruin couldn't "see" well directly, he could evidently see/modify the Investiture within them just fine at the Spiritual level) because he naturally possessed eidetic recall - a "photographic memory" - in which he was fully confident.

Alone among all Feruchemists, he could say "yo, my coppermind got hacked" instead of "eh, guess I didn't remember what my coppermind had it in it the last time I tapped it, because I put that memory back into the coppermind, that's just how it goes, yup yup".

And once he suspected this was going on (since at that time, the Worldbringers were fully aware of the nature and intent of Ruin in their religious doctrine - just not of how he had subtly altered the Terris Prophecies over time), I could see him trying to write what he remembered the original prophecies to be in various ways, to see if any of them would "stick"

First on paper (immediately changed); on paper, weighed down by metal (changed); written indoors in a wood frame house (changed); written in a cave he was hiding in (changed... but only after he left the cave) ...

Wait, what was that? What was special about that cave? Ah, it had veins of iron ore in the walls?! Whoa...

Well if it was the metal that made the difference, how about writing it directly on metal in the first place?

Edited April 16 by robardin

[JustQuestin2004]

I always had the impression that Preservation trapped Ruin not long after their deal was made. Which would have been not too long after creating Scadrial, which would be not too long after the Shattering.

I'd imagine that Preservation set it all up before a certain stormy planet got infested with the most invasive species in the Cosmere. Which was about 7000 years ago, more or less.

So about 4-5 Heroes of the Well before Rashek. I also just really like the idea of Scadrial being stuck in a series of Cycles for thousands of years. Almost Preserved in that way. Poetic.

Edited April 16 by JustQuestin2004

[Treamayne]

1 hour ago, robardin said:

I agree, ten is not "Leras' number". And I also think the text is inconsistent and maybe in need of some kind of retcon in terms of the number of "original Allomancers" and "foreign kings".

The text mentioned at one point there were "nine original Allomancers" in Ministry doctrine, which number you might think included Rashek. But you could also justify that statement excluding The Lord Ruler from that reckoning and meaning "nine mortal Allomancers", because yanno, TLR is God, yeah?.

However, it's also mentioned that there are TEN "great" noble houses in The Final Empire, from which all other lesser houses have branched off from. And that TLR views them as the children of his original circle of friends/allies, kings who supported his reign from the get-go.

So unless TLR was a massive jerk as to freeze out one of the ten original "foreign kings who supported him" from an Allomancy upgrade while he sat on a couple of spare beads in his basement, requiring them to intermarry to inject Allomancy into their house, I think that is basically an error that should be fixed.

There surely were TEN "foreign kings" who founded the TEN great houses, each given a lerasium bead over 1,000 years ago, thus founding the noble bloodlines for Allomancy.

Maybe I am over thinking this (or under-thinking as the case may be) but it seems to me that Minisitry Doctrine is unlikely to be factual about the number of Kings to whom TLR granted Allomancy.

If they "hid" metals to try a long-con on the populace that there were only 10 Allomantic Metals, it seems likely they would have pulled a 1984 and re-written history so that the number of elevated kings (and the number of Great Houses) matched - because, of course the religion of the Sliver of Infiinity would just happen to have the number TLR's "friends and supporters" match the number of kings match the number of metals . . . and those heretics over there claiming that 16 is a holy number are just incorrect lying liars that need to be extinguished. 

Edited April 16 by Treamayne
SPAG

[+robardin]

1 minute ago, Treamayne said:

Maybe I am over thinking this (or under-thinking as the case may be) but it seems to me that Misitry Doctrine is unlikely to be factual about the number of Kings to whom TLR granted Allomancy.

If they "hid" metals to try a long-con on the populace that there were only 10 Allomantic Metals, it seems likely they would have pulled a 1984 and re-written history so that the number of elevated kings (and the number of Great Houses) matched - because, of course the religion of the Sliver of Infiinity would just happen to have the number TLR's "friends and supporters" match the number of kings match the number of metals . . . and those heretics over there claiming that 16 is a holy number are just incorrect lying liars that need to be extinguished. 

Well, according to Yomen who wasn't surprised at all about the fixed and recurring 16% figure in the "mistfallen", because "it figures prominently in Church doctrine".

Quote

"It was the number of days it took the Lord Ruler to reach the Well of Ascension... The number of original Inquisitors. The number of Precepts in each Canton charter. The number of Allomantic metals. The -"

"Wait," Elend said. "What?"

"Allomantic metals."

"There are only fourteen of those."

Yomen shook his head. "Fourteen we know of, assuming your lady was right about the metal paired to aluminum. However, fourteen is not a number of power. ..."

Yomen was as devout a Minstry obligator as they came - even founding the post-Catacendre religion of "Sliverism" that continued to revere Rashek, The Lord Ruler - so figuring out there were (or must be) sixteen Allomantic metals in total, with some unknown to them for reasons of God (Rashek), was hardly "heretical", and Yomen felt free to drop that on someone not of the priestly caste in Elend.

In fact, as a high nobleman, he may even has been subtly chastising Elend for not knowing his doctrine well enough!

[Treamayne]

14 minutes ago, robardin said:

Well, according to Yomen who wasn't surprised at all about the fixed and recurring 16% figure in the "mistfallen", because "it figures prominently in Church doctrine".

Yomen was as devout a Minstry obligator as they came - even founding the post-Catacendre religion of "Sliverism" that continued to revere Rashek, The Lord Ruler - so figuring out there were (or must be) sixteen Allomantic metals in total, with some unknown to them for reasons of God (Rashek), was hardly "heretical", and Yomen felt free to drop that on someone not of the priestly caste in Elend.

In fact, as a high nobleman, he may even has been subtly chastising Elend for not knowing his doctrine well enough!

Exactly. An Obligator might know the truth, but that is surprising to the general populace. We already know there is a disparity between what they study and what they tell the masses. 

Edited April 16 by Treamayne
SPAG

[Isilel]

7 hours ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

After reading Secret History, I’m convinced Kwaan’s knowledge that Shards can’t read metal comes from Preservation Himself, as part of the plot to put Rashek into position to be that cycle’s Ascendant. 

 

IMHO, Preservation told the Terris about recording  important information in metal back when he gave them the Prophecies. The tragic mistake of the Worldbringers was that at some point they came to believe that using copper Feruchemy was as secure as writing in metal, when of course it was a power that was half of Ruin and open to his manipulations.

Also, Alendi was in truth Preservation's chosen, just like Vin, and Ruin managed to get to him and mislead him ditto. 

[Treamayne]

2 hours ago, alder24 said:

Those aren't the WoB I'm looking for.

I found this one that mentions previous ascensions:

Spoiler

Chaos (paraphrased)

Since the dawn of Scadrial, why was Feruchemy isolated in a single distinct population in the world, namely the Terrismen? Allomancy, while rare within the population of Scadrial, at least was not isolated to one population, it was spread evenly, it seems. What is special about the Terrismen that only they get the power of Feruchemy? Does it have something to do with the previous Ascensions before Rashek, with the guardian keeping the power for a time?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

It's all in the spiritual DNA, which is passed on like normal DNA. However, they are a separate people. They've kept themselves isolated, similar to the Jews in our world. When I asked he said there have been some Feruchemical-mistings [Ferrings] in the past, but they are very rare.

Ancient 17S Q&A (May 1, 2010)

But I wonder if maybe it would be easier for you to find if you searched the Forum for the previous time you quoted that WoB?

Edited April 16 by Treamayne
SPAG

[alder24]

3 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

I found this one that mentions previous ascensions:

No, it's not it as well. I think the part about Ascensions was a secondary question, or maybe written on a book during a signing, but I'm not sure.

8 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

But I wonder if maybe it would be easier for you to find if you searched the Forum for the previous time you quoted that WoB?

No, I can't remember the context at all, I can't find proper words so the search is pointless for now. It's irritating as I want to show the WoB, not just say "trust me bro." But I've found that Feruchemy came from Preservation, something that you were talking before here:

5 hours ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

I don't think the Terris had access to naturally occurring Full Feruchemists

5 hours ago, Treamayne said:

My current theory (headcanon), pending more information, is that the Hero 1024 years before Alendi used the power of the Well to "upgrade" Terris from Ferrings to Full Feruchemists (which still has holes, even though we know Rashek made himself Mistborn that way does not mean another hero could have done the same with Feruchemy or to other people, but may have been possible by tweaking Teris sDNA rather than a direct Investing of power). The natural Terris insularity would reinforce that trait and prevent it from spreading across the northern continent. And we all know what happens next. 

 

Spoiler

NutiketAiel

For Feruchemy, can you only inherit that? Or is there another way to get it?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, you could obviously get it through a Hemalurgic spike.

NutiketAiel

Yeah, but that’s kind of a different thing.

Brandon Sanderson

It is hereditary, but it came from somewhere. Which is a RAFO, but it’s not a big RAFO. There’s not something you missed in the books, or anything like that. It originally came from Preservation long ago. And there are other ways to get it, but you have not missed any major plot points regarding that. Good question.

Words of Radiance Philadelphia signing (March 21, 2014)

 

[Treamayne]

3 minutes ago, alder24 said:

 

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

It is hereditary, but it came from somewhere. Which is a RAFO, but it’s not a big RAFO. There’s not something you missed in the books, or anything like that. It originally came from Preservation long ago. And there are other ways to get it, but you have not missed any major plot points regarding that. Good question.

 

Great, thank you. Now - standard Sanderson wordsmithing thought. . . Does he mean "Preservation" as in Leras or "Preservation" as in the power of the Shard of Preservation (which could have been weilded by somebody at the Well if there had been instances before Alendi/Rashek)?

Of course, the correct answer is Yes. he meant it in any way that would confuse future understanding or allow misinterpretation. . . 

[JustQuestin2004]

14 minutes ago, alder24 said:

 

No, it's not it as well. I think the part about Ascensions was a secondary question, or maybe written on a book during a signing, but I'm not sure.

No, I can't remember the context at all, I can't find proper words so the search is pointless for now. It's irritating as I want to show the WoB, not just say "trust me bro." But I've found that Feruchemy came from Preservation, something that you were talking before here:

 

  Hide contents

NutiketAiel

For Feruchemy, can you only inherit that? Or is there another way to get it?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, you could obviously get it through a Hemalurgic spike.

NutiketAiel

Yeah, but that’s kind of a different thing.

Brandon Sanderson

It is hereditary, but it came from somewhere. Which is a RAFO, but it’s not a big RAFO. There’s not something you missed in the books, or anything like that. It originally came from Preservation long ago. And there are other ways to get it, but you have not missed any major plot points regarding that. Good question.

Words of Radiance Philadelphia signing (March 21, 2014)

 

Thanks, so whether it was from Preservation or just the Well, it was still by design. Probably as a way to counter Ruin, just like how Allomancy was used to burn away his Atium at the end.

[alder24]

1 hour ago, Treamayne said:

Great, thank you. Now - standard Sanderson wordsmithing thought. . . Does he mean "Preservation" as in Leras or "Preservation" as in the power of the Shard of Preservation (which could have been weilded by somebody at the Well if there had been instances before Alendi/Rashek)?

Of course, the correct answer is Yes. he meant it in any way that would confuse future understanding or allow misinterpretation. . . 

I think in this case he meant it literally, as Leras gave the power, otherwise he would say something like "it came from the power of Preservation." Sure, he's a master wordsmith, but he very often makes it clearly confusing. In this case he said it's not a big deal, so I don't think any tricks are involved. 

[Ale the Metallic Conjurer]

8 hours ago, alder24 said:

I don't think he needed Preservation for that. Realmatic Theory was a part of ancient Terris religion. Kwaan was able to travel to CR and that alone is enough to realize how metal looks for an entity watching it from outside of PR. It glows. If it glows in CR it means that it can't be read. Even Kelsier in SH immediately realized that metal and souls are the same thing. This is simple enough for Kwaan to reach that conclusion as well, especially if he knew about both Preservation and Ruin and their true nature, just like the First Generation of Kandra knew that (admittedly some of that might have come from Rashek after Ascension, but I think it's clear that ancient Terris was still aware of Ruin). 

Cosmere spoilers:

  Reveal hidden contents

Moreover Worldsingers and Worldbringers are connected and have the same origin, Worldsingers were founded by Hoid so it's very likely that Worldbringers have also connections beyond Scadrial and might be aware of Worldhopping. 

  Reveal hidden contents

Questioner

Worldbringers and Worldsingers, similar mission?

Brandon Sanderson

The similarity of the names is intentional.

Questioner

Similar origin?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Questioner

Did Hoid start them?

Brandon Sanderson

That's a RAFO. That's a RAFO, but definitely they have a similar origin.

Firefight San Francisco signing (Jan. 17, 2015)

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Nesh

So some of us happened across a line in [Mistborn: The Final Empire] that gave us pause. It's in the chapter 19 epigraph:

"Not so Kwaan. In a way, he is as unlikely a prophet as I am a hero. He never had an air of ceremonious wisdom - nor was he even a religious scholar. When we first met, he was studying one of his ridiculous interests in the great Khlenni library--I believe he was trying to determine whether or not trees could think."

This sounded to us like Kwaan the Terrisman might have been looking into or might have known something about Realmatics, like for instance knowing of the Realms and that things have aspects in all three. Is this the case? If so, was such knowledge common among his people or Scadrial?

Brandon Sanderson

Realmatic theory was part of the ancient Terris religion.

17th Shard Forum Q&A (Sept. 28, 2012)

 

Respectfully, I disagree with this. Knowing some Realmatic Theory isn’t the same as traveling to the CR. Especially when, as I said before, there is no implication there were worldhoppers among the Worldbringers (besides Hoid, potentially). Especially when the location of Ruin’s perpendicularity is an annoying continuity snarl. Was it always in the Pits of Hathsin? We don’t know. Was it in the mountains near the Well of Ascension, where Fedik was stabbed? We don’t know.

If it’s the former, then that’s honestly a big question mark I doubt Sanderson will elaborate upon. If it’s the latter, then that’s an even bigger question mark considering how dangerous and holy the trek to the Well’s mountain is.

We need to remember that both Shards had heavy involvement in the religions of Scadrial.  They could’ve hid hints on the Cognitive aspects of objects. Or Hoid could’ve seeded hints among his Terris comrades.

Kelsier was literally in the CR as a dying soul, and he only had the opportunity to see glowing metal and souls cuz he was a Mistborn - who persist in the CR for a few minutes. Even then, that was only possible because Kelsier chose to move around in the CR and Fuzz didn’t immediately communicate with him.

Now that I think about it, Kwaan’s quotes don’t necessarily mean he knows metal glows to Shards. 

I think it’s much more likely that Kwaan paid attention to his metal tablets during his exile, constantly watching for interference from Ruin. Then he made the final metal tablet once certain Ruin never altered a word. 

 

[alder24]

4 minutes ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

Respectfully, I disagree with this. Knowing some Realmatic Theory isn’t the same as traveling to the CR. Especially when, as I said before, there is no implication there were worldhoppers among the Worldbringers (besides Hoid, potentially)

You don't need to be a Worldhopper to travel to CR. Being in CR doesn't make you a Worldhopper, you need to travel between worlds. Kelsier didn't become a Worldhopper in SH, he never left the Scadrian sphere of influence. Knowing Realmatic Theory in an industrial world is enough to travel to CR - Kwaan was interested in cognition of trees, not Preservation. 

6 minutes ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

Especially when the location of Ruin’s perpendicularity is an annoying continuity snarl. Was it always in the Pits of Hathsin? We don’t know. Was it in the mountains near the Well of Ascension, where Fedik was stabbed? We don’t know.

We don't know where the Pits were located before Rashek's Ascension, as he changed the geography of Scadrial and moved its crust. But there was also perpendicularity at the Well - two in fact as there was also Ruin's Shardpool there. So it's likely that Atium spawning goods were located close to the Well. And that's Terris homeland, sure it's challenging to go there, but as proven by Rashek from Alendi's journal, for a Ferichemist this is not problematic at all. 

17 minutes ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

Kelsier was literally in the CR as a dying soul, and he only had the opportunity to see glowing metal and souls cuz he was a Mistborn - who persist in the CR for a few minutes.

Source? Metal just glows in CR and that's not because he was a Mistborn, that has nothing to do with it - I have not seen anything that would indicate it's because he was a Mistborn that he saw metal glowing. 

25 minutes ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

Now that I think about it, Kwaan’s quotes don’t necessarily mean he knows metal glows to Shards. 

I think it’s much more likely that Kwaan paid attention to his metal tablets during his exile, constantly watching for interference from Ruin. Then he made the final metal tablet once certain Ruin never altered a word. 

That’s true, he didn't specifically state that metal glows, he just said only metal can be trusted. Kwaan didn't use his Coppermind, he realized that what other Worldbringers repeated from their Coppermind or texts didn't match with his perfect memory. How he reached the conclusion that metal can be trusted is unknown, but having the knowledge of Realmatic Theory probably helped. 

But this is a possible explanation, Kwaan said he studied texts for 2 years looking for alterations, so he might have noticed that words written on metal don't change.

Also because Kwaan refers to Ruin as the force, something or thing, by his time Ruin was either completely forgotten, or his role was greatly diminished in Terris religion. Preservation would probably be treated similarly. 

[Ale the Metallic Conjurer]

29 minutes ago, alder24 said:

We don't know where the Pits were located before Rashek's Ascension, as he changed the geography of Scadrial and moved its crust. But there was also perpendicularity at the Well - two in fact as there was also Ruin's Shardpool there. So it's likely that Atium spawning goods were located close to the Well. And that's Terris homeland, sure it's challenging to go there, but as proven by Rashek from Alendi's journal, for a Ferichemist this is not problematic at all. 

That’s likely. But there’s nothing in lore that indicates atium spawned near the Well. Maybe I’m just being pessimistic, but it all feels like one big continuity snarl that makes theorycrafting a headache. I doubt anything connected to the Pits can be reliably connected back to what we know about Kwaan.

29 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Source? Metal just glows in CR and that's not because he was a Mistborn, that has nothing to do with it - I have not seen anything that would indicate it's because he was a Mistborn that he saw metal glowing. 

I never said this. What I meant was that Kelsier had the opportunity to see metal and souls glow because he persisted in the CR for a few minutes. Most dying souls don’t have the opportunity to witness this phenomenon because they’re either too shocked, not Mistborn or Full Feruchemists who can persist for a few minutes after death, or both. And yet again there’s nothing indicating Kwaan went to the CR through a perpendicularity. 

 

Edited April 16 by Ale the Metallic Conjurer

[alder24]

14 hours ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

That’s likely. But there’s nothing in lore that indicates atium spawned near the Well. Maybe I’m just being pessimistic, but it all feels like one big continuity snarl that makes theorycrafting a headache. I doubt anything connected to the Pits can be reliably connected back to what we know about Kwaan.

Not near the Well, Ruin's perpendicularity is in the Pits because of Atium. Once Atium geodes were destroyed, Ruin's perpendicularity was destroyed as well. If Ruin's Shardpool was spotted near the Well, it's very likely that Atium is there as well, as it's the reason why his perpendicularity exists in the first place.

14 hours ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

I never said this. What I meant was that Kelsier had the opportunity to see metal and souls glow because he persisted in the CR for a few minutes. Most dying souls don’t have the opportunity to witness this phenomenon because they’re either too shocked, not Mistborn or Full Feruchemists who can persist for a few minutes after death, or both.

Oh, so you just mean that he saw it because he persisted long enough to spot it? Others were lasting in CR long enough to spot it as that was one of the first things Kelsier saw, even before Leras showed up. But this doesn't really matter IF some Terrispeople were able to visit CR directly.

14 hours ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

And yet again there’s nothing indicating Kwaan went to the CR through a perpendicularity. 

I have looked back and my first response and now I see the mistake I've made - I've stated Kwaan went to CR to study trees after glancing over previous posts, mistakenly taking it as a fact. Now as I dig more into it, I see it was never said anywhere that Kwaan went to CR. And I now see that's a year old topic so this probably also accumulated to my confusion as I had no recollection of this place - but that's fine, it's 100% my mistake. I apologize.

There is very little about it, some things might suggest that some Terrismen went into the CR - they had Realmatic awareness, they studied cognition of trees, they had the same origins as Worldsingers, which might have influenced them (or not). Not a lot, I admit, but that's more likely in my opinion than mostly mindless Preservation doing everything and even giving Kwaan perfect memorization skills in order to sent Rashek - who was NOT chosen by Preservation to take up the power of the Well, Alendi was, 16 years before the Well was filled, just like Vin was and that was after Kwaan was born, thus after he had those skills. Kwaan started to doubt Alendi long before he wrote this text in steel, two years at least.

So maybe Preservation did influence Kwaan to send Rashek after Alendi, but that was something made in the very last moment, when Leras realized that Alendi will give up the power, not use it - just like what happened with Sazed and Vin. The first time Sazed noticed a missing piece of text ripped by Preservation was in WoA ch 45, some few weeks before Vin's Ascension. Kwaan didn't see any Mistspirit unlike Sazed (100% he would wrote about it) so the most Preservation could have done is some slight nudges here and there and emotional Allomancy - it's unlikely he could have given him perfect memorisation skills for that occasion (he was mindless, that's first reason, second that's direct intervention, Ruin's power would oppose that making it impossible to achieve), nor visions, as his doubts didn't came from any vision. He most likely chose steel because of his Realmatic knowledge and possibly he might have discovered this during his 2 year long research, or maybe, just maybe, some Terrismen did indeed travel to CR and saw glowing metal for themselves, but they didn't realize its importance at that time.

Edited April 17 by alder24

[Treamayne]

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

We don't know where the Pits were located before Rashek's Ascension, as he changed the geography of Scadrial and moved its crust. But there was also perpendicularity at the Well - two in fact as there was also Ruin's Shardpool there. So it's likely that Atium spawning goods were located close to the Well. And that's Terris homeland, sure it's challenging to go there, but as proven by Rashek from Alendi's journal, for a Ferichemist this is not problematic at all. 

1 hour ago, Ale the Metallic Conjurer said:

And yet again there’s nothing indicating Kwaan went to the CR through a perpendicularity

We know that Scadrial had a thriving Worldhopper Trade going on (before Kelsier's antics), and we know Worldhoppers visited Scadrial prior to Alendi/Rashek. I think it's probable that Worldbringers had a significant enough knowledge of Realmatics to have known about the "metal glows" phenomenon - even if a given individual did not personally visit the Cognitive Realm themselves. 

I think it is likely that changing Scadrial's Feruchemists wasn't just about the interactions between Allomancy and Feruchemy, it also stifled what little Realmatic Theory was known and understood, and helped remove records of inventions like Gunpowder that TLR wanted surpressed. Guns themselves may have started as an import/knowledge share with other worlds pre-Rashek, as we not only see Khriss with a gun in M:SH (White Sand Spoilers):

Spoiler

But we see Firearms in White Sand long before the events of Era 1 - possibly around the time of Rashek. So, it could either be from Scadrial to Taldain, or from Taldain to Scadrial - and likely through Silverlight regardless of the direction that information flowed. 

 

[Longshot97]

On 4/7/2023 at 4:42 AM, Treamayne said:

As referenced, Kwaan was realmatically aware, since we learn in the TFE Ch 19 Epigraph that he was researching the Cognitive Realm aspect of trees

Ooh. Theory: Kwaan somehow made it into the Cognitive Realm. There, he would have seen how metal glows, and made a few extrapolations.

No evidence, just fun to consider