+robardin he/him Posted April 6, 2023 Posted April 6, 2023 It seems like we've seen pages and pages of "discussion" of who would win in a 1v1 (whether "on a battlefield", in an arena, with/without knowledge of the other's powerset, with/without time to fully prepare, etc.), ... ...between a "Fullborn" with access to both Feruchemy and Allomancy in all sixteen metals (excluding "god" metals), which we haven't seen in canon except in the person of The Lord Ruler, ...and a "Fifth Ideal Radiant" (which we also haven't actually seen in action yet, with Nale never even appearing in Shardplate), usually a Windrunner, presumably an Enraged Maxed-Out Kaladin. But there's no reason to pick between the two as some kind of Ultimate Cosmere Champion! What if Rashek had faked his own death (MB: Secret History notwithstanding), worldhopped over to Roshar, super-impressed Nale, bonded a highspren, and became a Fifth Ideal Skybreaker. (We haven't seen a Skybreaker use Division yet, but if it's at all like what Malata the Dustbringer could do to burn-carve a wooden table with a touch, I'm skeered.) Who could challenge or surpass him in a 1v1? Susebron, Returned of the Tenth Heightening, wielding Nightblood? Hmm! 5
Trusk'our he/him Posted April 6, 2023 Posted April 6, 2023 11 minutes ago, robardin said: Who could challenge or surpass him in a 1v1? Susebron, Returned of the Tenth Heightening, wielding Nightblood? Hmm! Well... huh. Not a lot, I'll say that now. Perhaps Szeth with Nightblood while being fueled by Dalinar's Perpendicularity and after swearing the 5th oath of the Skybreakers could do it. Maybe. He'd have to contend with Rashek's F-steel though, which is no laughing matter. Realistically though, it would be better to set him up to kill him. Rashek isn't exactly the most stable guy due to Ruin's influence and 1,000 years of wear and tear though, so perhaps someone clever who had access to a lot of resources could set up a trap to kill him, such as Jasnah, Hoid, or Kelsier, though I don't think that's the kind of answer you're looking for.
Quantus he/him Posted April 6, 2023 Posted April 6, 2023 After a lot of careful planning and Aondor Empowerment, the chosen Champion of the Ire. 1
Frustration Posted April 6, 2023 Posted April 6, 2023 An Elantrian, a Bondsmith, and anyone with a Dawnshard and another invested art. Those are the only ones I can think of.
alder24 Posted April 6, 2023 Posted April 6, 2023 38 minutes ago, robardin said: It seems like we've seen pages and pages of "discussion" of who would win in a 1v1 (whether "on a battlefield", in an arena, with/without knowledge of the other's powerset, with/without time to fully prepare, etc.), ... ...between a "Fullborn" with access to both Feruchemy and Allomancy in all sixteen metals (excluding "god" metals), which we haven't seen in canon except in the person of The Lord Ruler, ...and a "Fifth Ideal Radiant" (which we also haven't actually seen in action yet, with Nale never even appearing in Shardplate), usually a Windrunner, presumably an Enraged Maxed-Out Kaladin. But there's no reason to pick between the two as some kind of Ultimate Cosmere Champion! What if Rashek had faked his own death (MB: Secret History notwithstanding), worldhopped over to Roshar, super-impressed Nale, bonded a highspren, and became a Fifth Ideal Skybreaker. (We haven't seen a Skybreaker use Division yet, but if it's at all like what Malata the Dustbringer could do to burn-carve a wooden table with a touch, I'm skeered.) Who could challenge or surpass him in a 1v1? Susebron, Returned of the Tenth Heightening, wielding Nightblood? Hmm! Oh god... Giving Rashek, a person with overpowered abilities, Radiant abilities on top of his own would be truly an overkill. Now he can likely fuel his Allomancy and Feruchemy with Stormlight, and compound his Radiant powers with Nicrosilminds, to whatever outcome. And gave him a Shardblade and a Shardplate. I think you might have created a god. Susebron with Nightblood stands no chance. Ishar might have some chances. A fully trained Bondsmith as well. And I doubt there is more that could stand a chance, and even them would have a hard time, as every single Allomantic power Rashek has is on par with Lerasium-Mistborn duralumin strength now. He's savant in most of the metals (and abilities), and if he has access to Atium, than it is almost impossible to defeat him (if Atium burned with duralumin let Elend see fully into SR, is that what Rashek can normally see when burning it?). Bondsmith can't even do a surprise attack on him from CR, as Rashek has a spren now that watches his back, on top of his BoM level steelsight and extreme A-bronze. Elantrain likely could do some crazy stuff, so he also stands a chance against the New Lord Ruler. I think I know what would be his 4th Ideal - crusade against Scadrial to take it back.
+robardin he/him Posted April 6, 2023 Author Posted April 6, 2023 56 minutes ago, Quantus said: After a lot of careful planning and Aondor Empowerment, the chosen Champion of the Ire. Hmm. Well, spoilering for stuff from Tress, ... Spoiler as we discover at the end, the Connection to AonDor can be "extended" to someone by somebody who's already Elantrian, which was the "bet" that Hoid won over Riina "The Sorceress". Which implies that we could stack AonDor on top of both Rashek AND Susebron.
+robardin he/him Posted April 6, 2023 Author Posted April 6, 2023 36 minutes ago, Frustration said: An Elantrian, a Bondsmith, and anyone with a Dawnshard and another invested art. Those are the only ones I can think of. What, no love for Kenton the Sand Master?
Quantus he/him Posted April 6, 2023 Posted April 6, 2023 3 minutes ago, robardin said: Hmm. Well, spoilering for stuff from Tress, ... Hide contents as we discover at the end, the Connection to AonDor can be "extended" to someone by somebody who's already Elantrian, which was the "bet" that Hoid won over Riina "The Sorceress". Which implies that we could stack AonDor on top of both Rashek AND Susebron. Sure, they could pick pretty much any Host. In theory though, an intricately designed AonDor Augmentation package, because it can be designed from the ground up, should be able to match and surpass any other Power or Ability in the Cosmere. They can have all the personal augmentations of a FullBorn and Heightenings plus any customized offensive and defensive capabilities you could think of. Dor Plate, Seonblade, Leeching Bubbles, various forms of energy manipulation, all powered by a Duralumin-sized Investiture Power Connection.
+robardin he/him Posted April 6, 2023 Author Posted April 6, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Quantus said: Sure, they could pick pretty much any Host. In theory though, an intricately designed AonDor Augmentation package, because it can be designed from the ground up, should be able to match and surpass any other Power or Ability in the Cosmere. They can have all the personal augmentations of a FullBorn and Heightenings plus any customized offensive and defensive capabilities you could think of. Dor Plate, Seonblade, Leeching Bubbles, various forms of energy manipulation, all powered by a Duralumin-sized Investiture Power Connection. Colors, how about tossing Susebron a fully topped up Bands of Mourning and a bandolier of vials with all the metals. LOL. Edited April 6, 2023 by robardin
Quantus he/him Posted April 6, 2023 Posted April 6, 2023 2 minutes ago, robardin said: Colors, how about tossing Susebron a fully topped up Bands of Mourning and a bandolier of vials with all the metals. LOL. Unnecessary, a Champion of Ire would have all the purified Dor they could carry, but would probably just mimic the best effect with AonDor and not need to involve Preservation at all. 1
Duxredux he/him Posted April 26, 2023 Posted April 26, 2023 On 4/6/2023 at 7:28 AM, robardin said: Who could challenge or surpass him in a 1v1? The Hemalurgic Beaver. 3
Frustration Posted April 26, 2023 Posted April 26, 2023 2 hours ago, Duxredux said: The Hemalurgic Beaver. Praise the mighty Beaver!
Immortal Platypus Posted April 27, 2023 Posted April 27, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Duxredux said: The Hemalurgic Beaver. ALL PRAISE!!!!! Edited April 27, 2023 by Being of Cacophony quoted wrong person
cometaryorbit Posted April 28, 2023 Posted April 28, 2023 (edited) Susebron (or anyone) with Nightblood could quite possibly kill him ... not by fighting, but by handing Nightblood to Rashek, who would then be compelled to kill himself with Nightblood because Nightblood would register him as evil. Copper might save him, but he probably doesn't have it on most of the time (he's a Seeker who can pierce copperclouds ... but not his own, since he's as strong as himself). In an actual fight, no way. I think even a normal Mistborn, if they knew duralumin, could probably kill Susebron wielding Nightblood, and a Coinshot with a gun might well be able to (even a regular human with a gun might have a chance, if they started far apart). Awakening gives some mobility (lifted by cloak, etc) but not as much as Mistborn Allomancy, which also has much better range capabilities. So the Mistborn could probably stay out of Nightblood range pretty easily - pewter should help make up for the superior speed and reflexes of a Returned (and Rashek's f-Steel definitely would outmatch them). The only question is how well Awakened tassels/cloak etc would block coins or bullets. I think a skilled (Kelsier in book 1 or Vin late in book 2) Mistborn who knew duralumin and had backup metal vials, or Wax pushing a bullet already shot from a powerful gun, could get around that, but a normal non-duralumin era 1 Mistborn like Shan Elariel or Antillius Shezler maybe couldn't. -- I think a Dawnshard with a powerful Invested Art, or maybe a very experienced Bondsmith Unchained, could win. I don't think much else could, short of Shards (or near Shards like Vin moments before her Ascension in HoA). I'm not even sure if AonDor could do it without help. Of course, you could always stack powers on the opponent, too. Hand a 5th ideal Radiant two Honorblades (with nonoverlapping Surges) and feed them a lerasium bead... -- I kind of wonder if that sort of stacking powers (including a Fullborn Radiant) would actually work, though. There might be too much stuff already in Rashek's soul for a Radiant bond to be added; OTOH, he is also a Sliver with greatly expanded soul, so it might work for him specifically. I kind of think a similar Dawnshard ("Dawnsliver"?) effect is how Hoid can combine a bunch of magic systems - I don't really think a normal cosmere human could have Yolish Lightweaving plus Mistborn Allomancy plus Breath plus a Radiant bond plus either Chromium Feruchemy or some similar Fortune power... and likely other stuff too. (I also don't think Rashek could be a 5th ideal Skybreaker. He would be "an okay Skybreaker, but not a great one", and as most Skybreakers don't make it past 3rd ideal he would probably be stuck there. But 3rd ideal Skybreaker + Fullborn is already a super terrifying combination. Edited April 28, 2023 by cometaryorbit
Argenti he/him Posted April 28, 2023 Posted April 28, 2023 5 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said: Susebron (or anyone) with Nightblood could quite possibly kill him ... not by fighting, but by handing Nightblood to Rashek, who would then be compelled to kill himself with Nightblood because Nightblood would register him as evil. Copper might save him, but he probably doesn't have it on most of the time (he's a Seeker who can pierce copperclouds ... but not his own, since he's as strong as himself). Does Rashek think he's evil? I'm pretty sure Rashek viewed himself as the good guy Leras sure did.
alder24 Posted April 28, 2023 Posted April 28, 2023 26 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said: Susebron (or anyone) with Nightblood could quite possibly kill him ... not by fighting, but by handing Nightblood to Rashek, who would then be compelled to kill himself with Nightblood because Nightblood would register him as evil. Copper might save him, but he probably doesn't have it on most of the time (he's a Seeker who can pierce copperclouds ... but not his own, since he's as strong as himself). No. Just no. Rashak already has all the power, he doesn't need more. In this case, he has Shardblade, he doesn't need another sword, especially when he prefers killing from distance with powerful A-steel. He wouldn't want to even sell it, he was/is an ruler of the whole world, he wouldn't want to use it to manipulate people, he has emotional allomancy and can do better with it. He won't kill himself, because he just wouldn't want to use Nightblood in any way, and the sword won't consider him as evil. Not to mention, he could detect Nightblood with bronze, and shield himself with copper. He would know it's a dangerous sword. And strong mind and strong will would save him on top of that - Tonk Fah when holding Nightblood was getting tempted by it, but after getting smacked in the face by Denth, he was able to resist it fully. Spoiler Brandon Sanderson Chapter Thirty-Five Vivenna Awakes, Bound by Vasher This chapter—with what happens in the latter part of it—is the most dangerous in the book. Dangerous to me as an author, I mean. I love good plot twists, but I worry about leaving them without proper foreshadowing. I've never done something as drastic as I have in this book, having a group of sympathetic characters turn out to be working for the wrong side. I hope it succeeds, but I know that if it doesn't, readers will be very mad. Nothing is sloppier than a book with unearned changes in character motivation. But we're not there quite yet. Before that we have the first real interaction between Vivenna and Vasher. He gives her what he likes to think of as the Nightblood test. One nice thing about having a sword that "cannot tempt the hearts of those who are pure" is that when someone like Vivenna touches it, she gets sick. I didn't want Nightblood to come across as a "one ring" knockoff. He doesn't turn people's hearts or corrupt them. However, in order to be able to do his job and fulfill his Command, he needs the ability to determine who is good and who is evil. This, of course, isn't an easy thing to determine. In fact, I don't think it's a black or white issue for most people. When Nightblood was created, the Breaths infused in him did their best to interpret their Command. What they decided was evil was someone who would try to take the sword and use it for evil purposes, selling it, manipulating and extorting others, that sort of thing. Someone who wouldn't want the sword for those reasons was determined to be good. If they touch the weapon, they feel sick. If others touch the weapon, their desire to kill and destroy with it is enhanced greatly. Nightblood himself, unfortunately, doesn't quite understand what good and evil are. (This is mentioned later in the text.) However, he knows that his master can determine who is good and who is evil—using the sword's power to make people sick, or through other means. So, he pretty much just lets whoever is holding him decide what is evil. And if the one holding the sword determines—deep within their heart—that they are evil themselves, then they will end up killing themselves with the sword. Vivenna passes the test, which surprises Vasher. He thought that she'd be the type who would use Nightblood to kill and destroy. (He doesn't have a high opinion of her, obviously. Of course, that's partially because he's let his temper dictate what he thinks.) Warbreaker Annotations (Dec. 22, 2010) And Susebron would unfortunately lose. Spoiler Questioner God-King versus God-King. Susebron versus Rashek, who comes out on top? Brandon Sanderson Rashek, probably. Questioner By a lot or a little? Brandon Sanderson Well, here's the thing. I think Susebron is at the disadvantage in almost every situation. Questioner Okay. How so? Brandon Sanderson Rashek has been alive longer. Rashek knows what he's doing. Rashek has martial training. Rashek has killed a lot of people, Susebron never has. Fewer scruples. His magic is way more combat-oriented. He can get out of range a lot easier. He has power emotional Allomancy, which Susebron would *inaudible*. Granted, he's got so much investiture, he may be able to shrug that off. But still, I would put Rashek at the advantage. Skyward release party (Nov. 6, 2018) 35 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said: In an actual fight, no way. I think even a normal Mistborn, if they knew duralumin, could probably kill Susebron wielding Nightblood, and a Coinshot with a gun might well be able to (even a regular human with a gun might have a chance, if they started far apart). I've been actually thinking about it for the last few days, you would be surprised how much Awakener can do against a Mistborn, if given some time to prepare - the best way to protect against bullets/coins - Awaken coat with thick metal/aluminum/wooden plate in it with Command “protect me” and visualization to move in a way to intercept projectals with this plate. With right visualization it can deflect even duralumin pushed metals by placing the plate at a sharp angle. But a Mistborn killing Susebron? No way - Susebron would just Awaken all Mistborn clothes to suffocate him and it will kill him. Susebron's pile of clothes would take the hit. 26 minutes ago, Argenti said: Does Rashek think he's evil? I'm pretty sure Rashek viewed himself as the good guy Leras sure did. It's not about how he thinks about himself, it's about what he would do with Nightblood, and Rashek simply doesn't need Nightblood in any way. Look at WoB above.
cometaryorbit Posted April 28, 2023 Posted April 28, 2023 24 minutes ago, alder24 said: No. Just no. Rashak already has all the power, he doesn't need more. In this case, he has Shardblade, he doesn't need another sword, especially when he prefers killing from distance with powerful A-steel. He wouldn't want to even sell it, he was/is an ruler of the whole world, he wouldn't want to use it to manipulate people, he has emotional allomancy and can do better with it. He won't kill himself, because he just wouldn't want to use Nightblood in any way, and the sword won't consider him as evil. Not to mention, he could detect Nightblood with bronze, and shield himself with copper. He would know it's a dangerous sword. And strong mind and strong will would save him on top of that - Tonk Fah when holding Nightblood was getting tempted by it, but after getting smacked in the face by Denth, he was able to resist it fully. I disagree that Rashek (as we see him in TFE/SH) has either a strong mind or will. He's in very bad mental shape after a millennium of unstable immortality. He's also very bored, tired, and overconfident. I agree that burning copper could probably save him, but disagree that bronze would warn him to burn copper. If Nightblood was just handed to him, still sheathed, it probably wouldn't register at all until drawn (there's no Kinetic Investiture until then) by which point it's already got its fingers in his mind. I also don't think that Rashek would automatically recognize Nightblood's effect as an equivalent of Rioting/Soothing. It's probably not the same pulse at all And he might have very little time - Scadrian magic is low Investiture, and since he's constantly tapping his atiumminds, Nightblood would start draining those immediately. I think he'd die very fast whether he stabbed himself or not. I do think Nightblood would register him as evil, but I can see why you'd disagree. If he wasn't fundamentally a power hungry person, though, he wouldn't have conquered the world. 33 minutes ago, alder24 said: I've been actually thinking about it for the last few days, you would be surprised how much Awakener can do against a Mistborn, if given some time to prepare - the best way to protect against bullets/coins - Awaken coat with thick metal/aluminum/wooden plate in it with Command “protect me” and visualization to move in a way to intercept projectals with this plate. With right visualization it can deflect even duralumin pushed metals by placing the plate at a sharp angle. But a Mistborn killing Susebron? No way - Susebron would just Awaken all Mistborn clothes to suffocate him and it will kill him. Susebron's pile of clothes would take the hit. I think aluminum would probably mess up the Awakening, but otherwise that'd probably work... at least against normal coins. Its reaction time wouldn't necessarily be enough against duralumin steelpush coins, though, and if it was thick enough to block them it'd be pretty awkward (same limits as bulletproof armor - though the Awakening might help somewhat). Oh, right, 9th Heightening Audible Command - Susebron can Awaken at range. Yeah, he could easily defeat a normal Mistborn. A Pewter compounder could tear out of Awakened clothes, though, so TLR would probably still be okay.
alder24 Posted April 28, 2023 Posted April 28, 2023 15 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said: I disagree that Rashek (as we see him in TFE/SH) has either a strong mind or will. He's in very bad mental shape after a millennium of unstable immortality. He's also very bored, tired, and overconfident. Tonk Fah was mentally unstable (sociopathic urge to torture), and much less invested than Rashek who was a Sliver, and yet he resisted Nightblood with ease. Rashek being so much invested, with expanded soul and constantly tapping his metalminds, would make it really hard for Nightblood to affect him at all - just like WoB in my previous post said "Susebron got so much investiture, he may be able to shrug emotional Allomancy off". With Rashek and Nightblood it would be the same. 13 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said: I do think Nightblood would register him as evil, but I can see why you'd disagree. If he wasn't fundamentally a power hungry person, though, he wouldn't have conquered the world. That's the point. He already did it. He didn't bother with exploring Cosmere, despite knowing it existed, and tolerated trade with other planets. He had all the wealth and all the power he needed, he just wouldn't want Nightblood at all. And like you mentioned, he was bored and tired. Why bother with some fancy tool when he already has plenty of them? He was a god, there is nothing more after it for him to achieve. 22 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said: I think aluminum would probably mess up the Awakening, but otherwise that'd probably work... at least against normal coins. Its reaction time wouldn't necessarily be enough against duralumin steelpush coins, though, and if it was thick enough to block them it'd be pretty awkward (same limits as bulletproof armor - though the Awakening might help somewhat). Hard to say how aluminum would interact with Awakened objects, but I don't want to Awaken it, just sew aluminum in material after Awakening with visualization that already includes it. If the aluminum field effect messes something up with the Awakened object, wood is an option. Or, depending how strong Awakening material is, just normal metal plate, if material can physically resist being pushed/pulled (again, duralumin would rip it off, so do it against Mistings not Mistborns). Blocking duralumin pushed coins won't be likely with this setup, but I don't want to, just angle the plate and deflect the coin/bullet to the side. 40 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said: A Pewter compounder could tear out of Awakened clothes, though, so TLR would probably still be okay. Yes, he would. That's one of many reasons why Rashek would win.
Argenti he/him Posted April 28, 2023 Posted April 28, 2023 2 hours ago, alder24 said: 2 hours ago, Argenti said: Does Rashek think he's evil? I'm pretty sure Rashek viewed himself as the good guy Leras sure did. It's not about how he thinks about himself, it's about what he would do with Nightblood, and Rashek simply doesn't need Nightblood in any way. Look at WoB above. Well in that very same WoB it does say that if the wielder thinks that they're evil, so does the sword. Quote Brandon Sanderson This, of course, isn't an easy thing to determine. In fact, I don't think it's a black or white issue for most people. When Nightblood was created, the Breaths infused in him did their best to interpret their Command. What they decided was evil was someone who would try to take the sword and use it for evil purposes, selling it, manipulating and extorting others, that sort of thing. Someone who wouldn't want the sword for those reasons was determined to be good. If they touch the weapon, they feel sick. If others touch the weapon, their desire to kill and destroy with it is enhanced greatly. Nightblood himself, unfortunately, doesn't quite understand what good and evil are. (This is mentioned later in the text.) However, he knows that his master can determine who is good and who is evil—using the sword's power to make people sick, or through other means. So, he pretty much just lets whoever is holding him decide what is evil. And if the one holding the sword determines—deep within their heart—that they are evil themselves, then they will end up killing themselves with the sword. Warbreaker Annotations (Dec. 22, 2010) It's all about perception, Rashek is "The Good Guy" in his own story even if in the eyes of everyone else he would be very evil, and thus Nightblood wouldn't make him kill himself since he doesn't think he's evil. Thats why Vasher, who killed his wife and started the many war, can use nightblood. He didn't think of it as evil. As for how Szeth can use it? Ado only knows.
alder24 Posted April 28, 2023 Posted April 28, 2023 20 minutes ago, Argenti said: Well in that very same WoB it does say that if the wielder thinks that they're evil, so does the sword. Oh right, I missed that. It's late and so on, brain doesn't work. But I do believe that the way people determine if they're evil when holding Nightblood, is based on the criteria imprinted on Nightblood during his Awakening. The way it is phrased: Quote When Nightblood was created, the Breaths infused in him did their best to interpret their Command. What they decided was evil was someone who would try to take the sword and use it for evil purposes, selling it, manipulating and extorting others, that sort of thing. Someone who wouldn't want the sword for those reasons was determined to be good. If they touch the weapon, they feel sick. If others touch the weapon, their desire to kill and destroy with it is enhanced greatly. [...] Vivenna passes the test, which surprises Vasher. He thought that she'd be the type who would use Nightblood to kill and destroy. So yes, it's how it's wielder thinks about himself, but only for those specific reasons. That's what I believe is happening. 22 minutes ago, Argenti said: Thats why Vasher, who killed his wife and started the many war, can use nightblood. He didn't think of it as evil. As for how Szeth can use it? Ado only knows. Oh no, Vasher for sure thinks he has done some really bad, maybe evil, things (Manywar for one). But fully drawing Nightblood out and letting him feed on you, creates a bond between him and you that makes you immune to Nightblood's "test", and also he doesn’t want to use Nightblood for reasons that Nightblood's Breaths consider to be evil. Spoiler Brandon Sanderson Another note here is that Nightblood can sense where Vasher is. This is because Nightblood has ingested and fed off Vasher's Breaths in the past. When he does that, it connects him to someone. It's also, by the way, one of the secrets as to why Vasher doesn't get sick when holding Nightblood, even though he's a good person. It's not simply familiarity (though that is part of it). Nightblood has a built-in test. If he feeds off you and you survive, then you become somewhat immune to his powers. Warbreaker Annotations (June 22, 2011) But the reason why Vasher consider himself to be a good person is because he might have used Command to remove his memories (like he taught the girl) and now he just doesn't remember all the bad stuff he did: Spoiler Snote85 Did Vasher do to himself something similar to what Cultivation did to Dalinar, with his memory? I know in Warbreaker he says he knew the commands to take Denth's memories of things they'd done in the past away. Is there a chance he is not "whole" in his ability to recall his past? Brandon Sanderson It's safe to say that Vasher's memory has a few holes. General Reddit 2017 (Dec. 10, 2017) And about Szeth: Spoiler Questioner What’s your most terrifying character, and why is it Nightblood? Brandon Sanderson Ha. Nightblood is pretty terrifying… You know, an object created to destroy evil but doesn’t know what it is? Questioner When you brought it back...I had <to like shut the book> a little bit and like, scary. Brandon Sanderson I wanted you to think that Nightblood in the hands of Szeth should be one of the most terrifying things that you have ever contemplated. Shadows of Self San Jose signing (Oct. 9, 2015)
cometaryorbit Posted May 3, 2023 Posted May 3, 2023 On 4/28/2023 at 3:26 PM, alder24 said: Rashek being so much invested, with expanded soul and constantly tapping his metalminds, would make it really hard for Nightblood to affect him at all - just like WoB in my previous post said "Susebron got so much investiture, he may be able to shrug emotional Allomancy off". With Rashek and Nightblood it would be the same. That's the point. He already did it. He didn't bother with exploring Cosmere, despite knowing it existed, and tolerated trade with other planets. He had all the wealth and all the power he needed, he just wouldn't want Nightblood at all. And like you mentioned, he was bored and tired. Why bother with some fancy tool when he already has plenty of them? He was a god, there is nothing more after it for him to achieve. TLR isn't remotely as Invested as Susebron. He doesn't have any aura/glow/leakage effect like Returned/Awakeners, Elantrians, or Radiants - notably, Marasi with the Bands does leak Mist. So I think TLR is way less Invested than a normal Returned, much less Susebron. He's constantly tapping youth, but his atiumminds are actually quite small metalminds (Vin points that out when talking about selling them in WoA). There's just not that much actual power there. I can see TLR not killing himself, but if he draws Nightblood he's probably dead anyway - it'll drain away his youth. 1
Duxredux he/him Posted May 3, 2023 Posted May 3, 2023 If we're going alternate history, Szeth post-assassination of Gavilar has his Oathstone traded across owners and ends up going through Shadesmar. Eventually his Oathstone lands in the hands of Wyrn, Wulfden the Fourth (assuming the Honorblade can worldhop which is highly unlikely, and however worldhopping actually works for Sel. But then, Rashek as a Sliver probably can't worldhop either). In the process of the destruction of Elantris and bringing all people under Lord Jaddeth, Szeth is enhanced in the Dakhor monastery and gains the ability to fuel the Honorblade with the Dor and to choose to negate other Invested abilities. After the conquering of Sel and subsequent subjugation of the Ire near Sel and Wyrn processes the information of the Ire and looks to the broader Cosmere. Szeth, Truthless, Dakhor Monk, barely sane, is further enhanced by Ire AonDor, and goes on to conquer Shinovar and claim the remaining Honorblades. That Szeth might be a match for Rashek the 5th Order Skybreaker. Maybe. On a side note, one of the scarier things about Rashek the Skybreaker is that he would have squires. Likely Inquisitor squires. They most likely wouldn't ever get spren to bond to them with their Hemalurgic spikes, but I think they would be able to use Lashings and fuel their Allomancy and Ferchemy with Stormlight. 1
HSuperLee Posted May 3, 2023 Posted May 3, 2023 I mean, any of the Shards could probably kill him in the right circumstances. Personally I'd ask Ruin to do it. If Ruin can't find a way, they'll just delete the planet and solve it that way. Personally I'd love to see a Shard actually manifest a body at some point and do their best Olympian impression, but I don't know how many of them have access to physical godhood as part of their portfolio. It would certainly be quite the spectacle to see Odium or Ruin make a body for themself and try to take on Super Rashek in divinely powered hand-to-hand combat.
alder24 Posted May 3, 2023 Posted May 3, 2023 7 hours ago, cometaryorbit said: TLR isn't remotely as Invested as Susebron. He doesn't have any aura/glow/leakage effect like Returned/Awakeners, Elantrians, or Radiants - notably, Marasi with the Bands does leak Mist. So I think TLR is way less Invested than a normal Returned, much less Susebron. He's constantly tapping youth, but his atiumminds are actually quite small metalminds (Vin points that out when talking about selling them in WoA). There's just not that much actual power there. I can see TLR not killing himself, but if he draws Nightblood he's probably dead anyway - it'll drain away his youth. Rashek is a Sliver, Fullborn made with the power of the Well, Savant in almost every ability he has. That's a lot of changes to his soul. I too doubt he is as invested as Susebron but he's behind him in second place in the entire Cosmere (excluding Hoid and Rysn). On top of him constantly tapping his Atiummind, he's also constantly burning A-brass and A-bronze, tapping F-pewter and F-bronze as well (that's what we know for sure he's using). I'm quite sure he would be able to control what investiture Nightblood would be feeding on, and save his youthfulness and wakefulness as the most important metalminds he needs. All of that would make him almost impossible to be emotionally controlled, just like Susebron is. Rashek burning a single metal would be enough to feed Nightblood: Spoiler Questioner On the coppermind it states specifically that Nightblood is fueled by Investiture, would that mean that an Allomancer burning, say, steel, could then [draw] Nightblood and fuel it off of that? Brandon Sanderson Yes, Nightblood would feed off that Kinetic Investiture, you could make that work. You would have to keep that portal open, and he would eat the power instead of whatever you were planning to do with it, and when you ran out of metal he’d kill you. Questioner Would that also work with say...whatever you have in a Coppermind or metalmind? Brandon Sanderson Yes, yes, theoretically you could make that work too. That’s an excellent question, you’re the first to ask that. Shadows of Self San Jose signing (Oct. 9, 2015) 7 hours ago, Duxredux said: On a side note, one of the scarier things about Rashek the Skybreaker is that he would have squires. Likely Inquisitor squires. They most likely wouldn't ever get spren to bond to them with their Hemalurgic spikes, but I think they would be able to use Lashings and fuel their Allomancy and Ferchemy with Stormlight. Oh that sounds fun, I didn't think about squires. Inquisitors Skybreakers sounds terrifying. And yes, they would likely be able to use Stormlight to fuel their Metallic Arts, and that would be far more potent than burning metals, Mists level of power. 7 hours ago, HSuperLee said: Personally I'd love to see a Shard actually manifest a body at some point and do their best Olympian impression, but I don't know how many of them have access to physical godhood as part of their portfolio. It would certainly be quite the spectacle to see Odium or Ruin make a body for themself and try to take on Super Rashek in divinely powered hand-to-hand combat. They kind of already did that, it's likely not possible what you're proposing: Spoiler Argent Can Shards manifest a physical body that can actually interact with the Physical Realm? Brandon Sanderson If they wanted to, yes. Argent Was that the thing that Odium did at the end of Oathbringer or was that just a projection? Brandon Sanderson Umm, it starts to be really difficult to define when you're getting to these points because they generally are such massive wells of Investiture themselves that it's like, is this thing they're creating, like, they are kinda, y'know, then bending the three Realms around the like spacetime with lots of gravity so is that a projection? Is that a real thing? Does it matter? Does that definition-- Argent Oh! At that point they are almost the same thing, right? Brandon Sanderson Yes, exactly. JordanCon 2018 (April 20, 2018)
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