cometaryorbit Posted May 3, 2023 Posted May 3, 2023 Even as a Radiant, he's still got the atiummind vulnerability. So two possibilities: - Give Jasnah Ishar's Honorblade for unlimited Stormlight; she pops into the Cognitive and Soulcasts his metalminds into smoke. - Use a Honorblade to get a high ideal Radiant with Adhesion + Gravitation + Division + Abrasion. This Radiant can outmatch Skybreaker Rashek in aerial combat, with the ability to reduce air pressure and friction, which pure Gravitation and Iron/Steel Allomancy can't do (and if Rashek reduces his weight with F-Iron to get more out of Iron/Steel, air resistance will actually hit him worse). Trade Division fire at range until his metalminds melt; his bracers aren't pure atium, so they will melt. 2 hours ago, alder24 said: Rashek is a Sliver, Fullborn made with the power of the Well, Savant in almost every ability he has. That's a lot of changes to his soul. I too doubt he is as invested as Susebron but he's behind him in second place in the entire Cosmere (excluding Hoid and Rysn). Oh, not even close to second place, IMO. I don't think he's as Invested as a normal Returned or Vivenna with hundreds of Breaths, or a Knight Radiant or Fused holding their full quantity of Light. He's much more Invested than a normal Mistborn, sure, but Scadrial is a very low Investiture world. I doubt a Mistborn's Innate Investiture is more than a few Breaths worth - they don't show any signs like Elantrians, Radiants, Returned, or Awakeners. And the amount they pull when burning metals isn't that large. He's a Sliver, yes, which would have easily let him become a Cognitive Shadow - but that's more about how he's Connected than quantity of Investiture. 2 hours ago, alder24 said: Oh that sounds fun, I didn't think about squires. Inquisitors Skybreakers sounds terrifying. And yes, they would likely be able to use Stormlight to fuel their Metallic Arts, and that would be far more potent than burning metals, Mists level of power. There is a WoB that Hemalurgy might make spren not want to bond you, but highspren are crazy, so it might work. Yeah, that would be a terrifying combination.
alder24 Posted May 3, 2023 Posted May 3, 2023 47 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said: - Give Jasnah Ishar's Honorblade for unlimited Stormlight; she pops into the Cognitive and Soulcasts his metalminds into smoke. With his steelsight and a Highspren on his side, he would be able to see Jasnah in CR and using his metalminds, create a perpendicularity to travel into CR to kill her. Plus he can just tap his speed and A-bednalloy to cut her from PR with a Shardblade. 49 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said: - Use a Honorblade to get a high ideal Radiant with Adhesion + Gravitation + Division + Abrasion. This Radiant can outmatch Skybreaker Rashek in aerial combat, with the ability to reduce air pressure and friction, which pure Gravitation and Iron/Steel Allomancy can't do (and if Rashek reduces his weight with F-Iron to get more out of Iron/Steel, air resistance will actually hit him worse). Trade Division fire at range until his metalminds melt; his bracers aren't pure atium, so they will melt. He doesn't need to fly, he's still faster than they could become. He can just stand on the ground and move an inch the moment they close in to attack and just slaughter them with massive speed and strength, or Shardblade. Or again, move to CR and use division on their soul (I wonder what would happen). 52 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said: Oh, not even close to second place, IMO. I don't think he's as Invested as a normal Returned or Vivenna with hundreds of Breaths, or a Knight Radiant or Fused holding their full quantity of Light. He's much more Invested than a normal Mistborn, sure, but Scadrial is a very low Investiture world. I doubt a Mistborn's Innate Investiture is more than a few Breaths worth - they don't show any signs like Elantrians, Radiants, Returned, or Awakeners. And the amount they pull when burning metals isn't that large. Normal Radiant is equally as invested as a normal Mistborn. Spoiler Blightsong Would it be harder for Jasnah to Soulcast a Knight Radiant? Brandon Sanderson Yes. Questioner Would it be harder for her to Soulcast a Mistborn? Brandon Sanderson Yes, Investiture resists Investiture. It's harder for her to even Soulcast a person than a rock, right? Questioner Is a Mistborn Invested? Brandon Sanderson The Mistborn, while they're burning the metal. They are not specifically Invested when they are not burning. When the Investiture becomes active, then yes. Before, no. Blightsong So Kelsier, he stayed around longer, not because he was Invested, but because he had the potential to use Investiture? Brandon Sanderson Over time using the magic will Invest you, on Scadrial. Most of the power is not coming from, on Roshar the power isn't coming from the person either [he cut himself off, so I assume this is how it works on Scadrial even though he didn't finish his thought] so I'm going to have to back up on that one and say, yes, the Mistborn are as Invested as a Knight Radiant, because in both cases the majority, bulk, of the power is coming from somewhere else, but there is the Spiritweb. Investing the wrong term, but you have all these connections in the Spiritual Realm, so yanking you away from them, or rewriting them is harder. Questioner Would they be harder with more Stormlight or metals burning? Brandon Sanderson Yes, yes. That would increase the difficulty ratio. For instance, wearing Shardplate is gonna be a great barrier, right, and things like that so yeah. The problem is like, Invested is the wrong term for that, their Spiritweb is connected in different ways. OdysseyCon 2016 (April 8, 2016) He's a Sliver. Vivenna dying with 1000 Breaths would still be pulled into the Beyond (likely, I wonder if an Awakener with 2000 Breaths would naturally become a CS Returned or that still too little investiture for that), he won't. Normal Returned needs to be fed with investiture every week, he doesn't. I can say the same thing, that Rashek burning all metals and tapping all metalminds plus using his new Stormlight would be far more invested, but I'm talking purely about innate investiture (plus Breaths), who is more invested not by infusing Stormlight or burning metals, but by the quality of their soul. In this case there aren't many who could rival Rashek (the God King, Hoid and Rysn, and dragons or Aethers, but they're not humans/mortal to begin with). Plus, him being a Sliver makes him more impervious to hemalurgic control, and hemalurgic control works the same way as emotional Allomacy, and by extension like Nightboold, so he still would be resistant to Nightblood's temptation. Spoiler ChromiumVoodoopunk Does Kelsier being a Sliver make him more resistant to Harmony's control through Hemalurgy? Brandon Sanderson Yes. YouTube Spoiler Stream 3 (Dec. 16, 2021) Spoiler Brandon Sanderson The Resolution TenSoon and the other kandra resist Ruin and are able to pull the spikes from their shoulders. There are a couple of reasons why they can do this. The power that Allomancers have to take control of them is the same power Ruin has. That control is exerted in the form of mental pressure through emotional Allomancy. As can be seen from Marsh's viewpoint, it is more than simply forcing the body to act as Ruin wishes. The extreme pressure on emotions changes the very way the mind thinks, tricking it into doing exactly what Ruin wants. The flaw in Hemalurgists leaves them open to this kind of manipulation. Kandra, who only have two spikes, are far more difficult to control than koloss or Inquisitors. Vin is able to control TenSoon with ease in book two, but that's partially because he wanted her to do so. He would have been able to resist her. If she'd continued to push, she could have broken him, but it would have taken time. Even Ruin's pressure wasn't enough to take control immediately. The kandra had a few moments during which they could overcome him and maintain their free will. Beyond that, they were in a cavern surrounded by metal ore in the walls, making it very difficult for Ruin to see what was going on and interfering with his ability to control them. The Hero of Ages Annotations (May 13, 2010) Every person on Scadrial is invested, having innate investiture of Preservation's fragment, like on Nalthis with Breaths. But that's too little for them to be considered slivers. Slivers have more innate investiture than that. Their soul is wrapped and extended because they once held the power of a Shard. Elantrians are invested, yes, but too little to be considered slivers as well. Spoiler Argent (paraphrased) What effects does being a Sliver have on a person? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) It can vary (on the Shard, the length of time the power was held, the power itself, etc). In some way a Sliver is someone who has had their mind, body, and spirit expanded due to holding a great deal of power, and then have had that power leave. Steelheart Chicago signing (Oct. 1, 2013) Spoiler Zach Also, would the Elantrians and the Lerasium-mistings be considered Slivers? Or is just the Lord Ruler and Vin Slivers (Via the Well)? Or do you need more power to be considered a Sliver? Brandon Sanderson Elantrians are not slivers. Mistborn trilogy spoiler warnings follow! The Lord Ruler was indeed a Sliver. So was Vin. For the rest, I would say probably not. What defines an actual Sliver of Adonalsium is not as clear-cut as you might think. It's a term that in-universe people who study this have applied to various existences and states. Every single person on the world of Scadrial has a bit of Leras in them—a bit of the power of Preservation. Every single person has a bit of Ati in them. There's a certain threshold where these scholars would call you a Sliver of Adonalsium. But I would say that any regular Misting is probably not a Sliver. A full Lerasium Mistborn is getting closer, but people who have held one of the powers are what would probably be termed a Sliver by the definitions. If you hold all the power that makes you a Shard, but the Lord Ruler held a little bit of it and then let it go. From then on they referred to that change in him—the residue, what was left—as a Sliver. When he held it he became the Shard for a short time, and Vin was a Shard for a short time. After Vin gave up the power, what Kelsier is at the end of the trilogy—that's a Sliver of Adonalsium. Goodreads Fantasy Book Discussion Warbreaker Q&A (Jan. 18, 2010) 1 hour ago, cometaryorbit said: He's a Sliver, yes, which would have easily let him become a Cognitive Shadow - but that's more about how he's Connected than quantity of Investiture. It's connections which allow Cognitive Shadows to resist the pull into the Beyond. And those connections are forged because of investiture. Normally a soul needs massive influx on investiture to anchor itself to all 3 Realms, like in Kelsier's case, but Rashek is so invested that he has that already. Connections are there because of how invested his soul is. Spoiler danimalod I just read Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell and loved it. How did the first shade come to be? Are there shades in other worlds? Do shades have bones? Brandon Sanderson Shades are what we call "Cognitive Shadows" in the cosmere. They're basically "spren" or "[seons]" created from human souls. (Where Investiture--or magical power--keeps a consciousness alive after it has lost its Physical connection.) Yes, shades all once had bodies. Think of them like petrified souls, where instead of stone replacing the tissue of a corpse, magical power replaced the parts of a soul that connect that soul to the Three Realms. Worldbuilders AMA (Dec. 4, 2015) RoW ch 92 epigraph: Quote "The bond is what keeps us alive. You sever that, and we will slowly decompose into ordinary souls—with no valid Connection to the Physical or Spiritual Realms. Capture one of us with your knives, and you won’t be left with a spren in a jar, foolish ones. You’ll be left with a being that eventually fades away into the Beyond."
cometaryorbit Posted May 4, 2023 Posted May 4, 2023 Why would steelsight help him see people in the CR? Vin was burning metals with Kelsier's shadow around and didn't see him. Would a Shardblade hit a being fully in the Cognitive Realm? You can hit a spren with a Shardblade, sure (like Kaladin cutting a voidspren with Sylblade) but those are spren manifested in the Physical. I don't think a Fullborn can practically get enough Investiture to create a perpendicularity. In theory, sure, any source of Investiture can do that. But I don't think a practical sized metalmind can do it. (The Bands are completely full, still less Invested than a Shardblade, and a Shardblade is nowhere near perpendicularity levels.) In the Division aerial fight, the enemy Radiant would never get close to the ground for TLR to use f-Steel against him. Re the Sliver Connections vs Investiture thing: I think we are reading the same text and WoBs in opposite ways. That's probably a theory tangent for a different thread anyway.
alder24 Posted May 4, 2023 Posted May 4, 2023 11 hours ago, cometaryorbit said: Why would steelsight help him see people in the CR? Vin was burning metals with Kelsier's shadow around and didn't see him. Because Wax using the Bands was able to see the souls of people around him, see not just traces of metal but axi themself and view them as made of the same thing, energy, investiture, matter is the same thing. That's why a powerful steelsight like Rashek has would be able to see axi and souls of people inside CR. 11 hours ago, cometaryorbit said: Would a Shardblade hit a being fully in the Cognitive Realm? You can hit a spren with a Shardblade, sure (like Kaladin cutting a voidspren with Sylblade) but those are spren manifested in the Physical. Shardblade cuts in all three realms. Yes, it would cut a person in CR, as it already can cat steel lines which exist in SR. Spoiler Oneyespike (paraphrased) Can a Shardblade interrupt iron or steel lines? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) *after mulling it over a bit, he was very interested in this question* "It would be theoretically possible, because steel lines manifest themselves on the Spiritual Realm. Also, there are other things that can cut/interfere with steel lines." Shadows of Self Denver signing (Oct. 6, 2015) 11 hours ago, cometaryorbit said: I don't think a Fullborn can practically get enough Investiture to create a perpendicularity. In theory, sure, any source of Investiture can do that. But I don't think a practical sized metalmind can do it. (The Bands are completely full, still less Invested than a Shardblade, and a Shardblade is nowhere near perpendicularity levels.) It's theoretically possible and that's good enough for me: Spoiler TheFulgid Could you Invest... Could you use a nicrosil metalmind to Invest the sort of Investiture enough that you could open a Perpendicularity up to the Cognitive Realm? Brandon Sanderson So, I'll just say it this way. Enough concentrated Investiture in one point is going to pierce the Realms, no matter what form it takes. TheFulgid ...So, it doesn't have to be a nicrosil metalmind. Brandon Sanderson No. TheFulgid Okay... But it could be? Brandon Sanderson Yes. That is theoretically possible. Oathbringer release party (Nov. 13, 2017) 11 hours ago, cometaryorbit said: In the Division aerial fight, the enemy Radiant would never get close to the ground for TLR to use f-Steel against him. So they won't be able to hurt him if he's on the ground. And he can fly as well as they can and with additions of his Feruchemy and Allomancy, he has advantage over every Radiants.
The Sibling she/her Posted May 4, 2023 Posted May 4, 2023 What if Odium won the battle of champions? Dalinar would bcome a fused, right? And if he was a fused but also a bondsmith and the stormfather decided to actually be helpful for once, maybe together they could beat Rashek. Dalinar would keep coming back from the dead by stealing other bodies, fuel himself by his own perpendicularity, he would have shardblade, and he could just try again and again to kill Mr. Lord SkyRuler. What if Dalinar also had Nightblood? Even if Nightblood thought he was evil, Dalinar could feed it off his perpendicularity and then dual wield the stormfather as a shardbade and nightblood. When Kaladin fell off Urithiru the stormfather controlled the highstorm to save him. Maybe if fused Dalinar wielding Nightblood was fighting Epic fifth oath "I am the Law" Rashek on Roshar, when the highstorms happened the stormfather could try to kill Rashek or at least distract him.
alder24 Posted May 4, 2023 Posted May 4, 2023 (edited) 29 minutes ago, The Sibling said: What if Odium won the battle of champions? Dalinar would bcome a fused, right? And if he was a fused but also a bondsmith and the stormfather decided to actually be helpful for once, maybe together they could beat Rashek. Dalinar would keep coming back from the dead by stealing other bodies, fuel himself by his own perpendicularity, he would have shardblade, and he could just try again and again to kill Mr. Lord SkyRuler. Until Rashek would get bored, took duralumin spikes and spike Dalinar's connection to Odium and Sotrmfather, killing him permanently. Or just spike out his connection to PR/CR/SR - that kills CS (Jezrien). Quote What if Dalinar also had Nightblood? Even if Nightblood thought he was evil, Dalinar could feed it off his perpendicularity and then dual wield the stormfather as a shardbade and nightblood. When Kaladin fell off Urithiru the stormfather controlled the highstorm to save him. Maybe if fused Dalinar wielding Nightblood was fighting Epic fifth oath "I am the Law" Rashek on Roshar, when the highstorms happened the stormfather could try to kill Rashek or at least distract him. NO DUAL WIELDING SWORDS!!! I hate this. Nightblood is a way to kill Rashek, but unless you are as fast as he is, you won't kill him with it. Being a Steel compounder would help a lot, Fullborn even more. Plus I think Dalinar dying would remove his bond to SF. But that's the open question. Edit: Rashek's 5th Skybreaker Ideal would be "I am the god" not "I am the law" Edited May 4, 2023 by alder24
The Sibling she/her Posted May 4, 2023 Posted May 4, 2023 1 minute ago, alder24 said: NO DUAL WIELDING SWORDS!!! I hate this But Dalinar could have Nightblood as his sword and then if the stormfather can change form he could be like a dagger or something smaller. 2 minutes ago, alder24 said: Plus I think Dalinar dying would remove his bond to SF. But that's the open question. I actually never thought about this. I don't really understand connections well enough to argue for or against this, if I'm being honest. 2 minutes ago, alder24 said: Until Rashek would get bored, took duralumin spikes and spike Dalinar's connection to Odium and Sotrmfather, killing him permanently. Or just spike out his connection to PR/CR/SR - that kills CS (Jezrien). Okay so Rashek would probably win. Sidenote, can bondsmiths have squires? What if Dalinar had squires?
alder24 Posted May 4, 2023 Posted May 4, 2023 5 minutes ago, The Sibling said: But Dalinar could have Nightblood as his sword and then if the stormfather can change form he could be like a dagger or something smaller. I accept the dagger, but Nightblood is heavy. 6 minutes ago, The Sibling said: I actually never thought about this. I don't really understand connections well enough to argue for or against this, if I'm being honest. It might or may not, the Nahel Bond is mainly spiritual, so it might not remove the bond, unless there is some mechanism that would do that. Kelsier lost his Allomancy after his death (but Allomancy is very physical). Plus if they remain bonded, Dalinar's soul being infused with Odium investiture would certainly mess Stormfather, which would force him to break the bond (and turn into Deadeye) or be hurt and turn into a Deadeye or even Unmade (their souls are mixed together kind of). 9 minutes ago, The Sibling said: Okay so Rashek would probably win. Sidenote, can bondsmiths have squires? What if Dalinar had squires? They can have squires. I don't know if they can have them in this competition (I don't like that, I like 1v1, but against Rashek the Skybreaker there aren't many people who could rival him). If Dalinar had squires when he would lose his bond, squires would lose their powers because they are gaining them thanks to Radiant mostly, not spren (I think so). Better Idea, give Rysn Ishar's Honorblade. Rashek will lose. Unchained Bondsmith powers with a Dawnshard? Ashyn proved that's a bad combination. Or wait 700 years for the Well of Ascension (convince Sazed to do it) and used its power to remove Rashek's powers.
The Sibling she/her Posted May 4, 2023 Posted May 4, 2023 45 minutes ago, alder24 said: I accept the dagger, but Nightblood is heavy. Yeah and also I'm realising that if Dalinar died with Nightblood then Rashek would get Nightblood and then honestly who could beat him... So I guess I accept your arguments, there's just a small part of me that will always believe that Dalinar could beat anyone because he's so cool. 1
alder24 Posted May 4, 2023 Posted May 4, 2023 17 minutes ago, The Sibling said: Yeah and also I'm realising that if Dalinar died with Nightblood then Rashek would get Nightblood and then honestly who could beat him... Right, I forget that Nightblood won't go with Fused-Dalinar to Braize 19 minutes ago, The Sibling said: So I guess I accept your arguments, there's just a small part of me that will always believe that Dalinar could beat anyone because he's so cool. He didn't beat Ishar.
The Sibling she/her Posted May 4, 2023 Posted May 4, 2023 (edited) Just now, alder24 said: He didn't beat Ishar. We don't talk about that... Edited May 4, 2023 by The Sibling 1
alder24 Posted May 4, 2023 Posted May 4, 2023 Just now, The Sibling said: We don't talk about that... "We don't talk about Ishar, no, no, no!" ♪♪♪ 2
The Sibling she/her Posted May 4, 2023 Posted May 4, 2023 Just now, alder24 said: "We don't talk about Ishar, no, no, no!" ♪♪♪ Exactly.
PinkPlasma she/her Posted May 5, 2023 Posted May 5, 2023 On 4/6/2023 at 9:28 AM, robardin said: It seems like we've seen pages and pages of "discussion" of who would win in a 1v1 (whether "on a battlefield", in an arena, with/without knowledge of the other's powerset, with/without time to fully prepare, etc.), ... ...between a "Fullborn" with access to both Feruchemy and Allomancy in all sixteen metals (excluding "god" metals), which we haven't seen in canon except in the person of The Lord Ruler, ...and a "Fifth Ideal Radiant" (which we also haven't actually seen in action yet, with Nale never even appearing in Shardplate), usually a Windrunner, presumably an Enraged Maxed-Out Kaladin. But there's no reason to pick between the two as some kind of Ultimate Cosmere Champion! What if Rashek had faked his own death (MB: Secret History notwithstanding), worldhopped over to Roshar, super-impressed Nale, bonded a highspren, and became a Fifth Ideal Skybreaker. (We haven't seen a Skybreaker use Division yet, but if it's at all like what Malata the Dustbringer could do to burn-carve a wooden table with a touch, I'm skeered.) Who could challenge or surpass him in a 1v1? Susebron, Returned of the Tenth Heightening, wielding Nightblood? Hmm! Right... well I will say not many things could be a fair fight here. im gonna leave nightblood out for now because he's a massive wildcard, just as dangerous to the weilder as he is to the opponent. im also not going to consider atium in this. its probably not out of the question that he could use stormlight as fuel for other abilities, so I'm gonna go on the assumption he can, which essentialy gives him a massive supply of investiture, but only one pool, if he chooses to use it as such. but he'll still probably hold onto some metals, at least for feurochemy. so he has metals but also can probably fuel his powers with stormlight in an emergency. he is going to be ridiculously powerful, a fullborn with living plate and a living shardblade, and who knows, maybe he can use fuerochemy to increase his connection to his spren, or any number of weird wild tricks. it's not entirely out of the question that his allomancy and fuerochemy will interact with lashings and the spren bonds in ways we can't predict. so we can safely say that they will be ridiculously powerful, and their biggest play will be that devastating combo of increadible speed, flight, and the fact the division or a shardblade can end someone in seconds. so who can outplay that, at a minimum? 1.) An unchained bondsmith. we already know these are the absolute powerhouses of the cosmere, with abilities so great that we only have legends. they can teleport entire planets worths of a population, and very potentialy are the reason they had to teleport in the first place. they can steal the bonds with spren, and probably the bonds with shards too. they can change things about. we know they can manipulate all 3 realms and mess with peoples spiritwebs, which is unfortunately where all our lord rulers powers are housed. so the bondsmith can essentialy wave away his benifits leaving him the equivalent to a drab. so they still wipe the floor with them. 2.) An elantrian. we already know that aons can basically do anything, so as long as they have the time to write them and the knowledge to understand, they have infinite potential. the limitations are obviously, how much time do they have, and how much knowledge do the posses, so there isn't really much to talk about here. with enough time and knowledge they win, simple as that. 3.) Hoid. he's been playing the Collect em all game way longer than the lord ruler has. definitive win. those are the definitive wins, not really a real fight, after this are potential contenders 1.) A kandra bonded to a spren, 5th ideal. the near imortality coupled with the ridicuolus healing capabilites give them a lot of potential. problem is, that they have hemolurgy, and I believe we all know the glaring weakness hemolurgy has against alomancy, but there ar likely ways to prevent this. even without that, division would be particularly effective against a kandra, as would a shardblade. but a kandra can pull some funky things with their bodies, and im not sure if there is a limit on how much mass they can have. they could potentially absorb a thunderclast with enough mass and biological knowledge to pull it off. so, again very dependent on the conditions, but an interesting fight to be sure. 2.) an unmade. any one of them would be a serious contender in a to-the-death combat. it is a mammoth task to kill an unmade, most likely needing the lord ruer to travel to the cognitive realm where they seem to exist more and leech them out of existence. which is a huge amount of investiture, and takes a good deal of time to drain, where our skybreaker lord ruler is particularly vulnerable. i can genuinely see this one going either way 3.) susebron, or anyone with similar levels of breath, provided that they can awaken enough things that our lord ruler won't simply burn them all to dust with division and that they have several packs of high color-saturated crayons as well of course. if they can manage to hold the fullborn still and create a sort of protective bubble of stuff to protect from lashings and steel pushes and pulls, they can just stab him with living spears of wood until he dies. but its difficult to pull off, and one mess-up would mean death. you can't heal yourself with breaths, a very glaring issue in this fight that can make it turn around VERY quickly. A single blow from the lord ruler could end them thats all i really had the time to think of, but im sure theres a few other options
cometaryorbit Posted May 8, 2023 Posted May 8, 2023 To kill a 4th+ Ideal Radiant pretty much requires either some form of 'Leeching' (A-Chromium, Stormlight-drain fabrial, larkin, Nightblood, etc), Anti-Light, or running them out of Stormlight. A Gold Compounder is similar, but a bit more vulnerable since they're dependent on physical metalminds (though implanting their metalminds in the body decreases that vulnerability). For TLR-Skybreaker, short of Anti-Light, the enemy would have to run him out of, or Leech away, both the F-Gold Health reserve and the Stormlight (melting/vaporizing/blasting apart metalminds with extreme heat or powerful explosions would work for the F-Gold but not the Stormlight). I don't think an Elantrian is necessarily a clear win. They can do pretty much anything, sure, so I'm sure they can replicate Leeching, but it takes preparation. An Elantrian who has spent a ton of time specifically planning to take on TLR-Skybreaker, probably; but without that, not so much. They wouldn't have time to do much AonDor; Elantrian healing is much worse than Radiant, so an Elantrian can't really survive an attack from TLR-Skybreaker. Unmade ... I think you might get a fight with no resolution. Neither Allomancy/Feruchemy nor Skybreaking inherently have a way to travel to the Cognitive Realm, but TLR is probably immune to most of the Unmade's abilities. I'm not sure all of them even have a way to kill a regular person in the Physical Realm. - Moelach's Death Rattles rely on someone already dying, they don't really harm anyone. - Nergaoul's Thrill and Ashertmarn's "revel" are basically Emotional Allomancy. Once he notices his emotions are being messed with, he burns copper: TLR's super-strong Copper Allomancy should make him immune, and copper is so slow-burning he can just leave it on forever. - Sja-anat corrupts/Enlightens spren, but it seems to be voluntary on the part of sapient Radiant spren, so she can't just zap TLR-Skybreaker's highspren; even if she could, and it disrupted his Radiant powers, she's probably not equipped to kill a Lerasium Mistborn Full Compounder, even if she's capable of Physically killing people personally like Re-Shephir is. -Re-Shephir might actually have a chance if she can just endlessly produce Midnight Essence. It can damage Plate, so it can wear through TLR's healing. -Yelig-Nar with a suitably powerful host seems like he should be absurdly powerful, but his performance doesn't really live up to that. He doesn't seem to have effective healing. Maybe if his host has a good healing power separately from Yelig-nar, though, he'd be a threat to TLR-Skybreaker. - We don't know enough about the others' powers. - Susebron Awakening... IDK. This would only work with special materials available, I think; normal wood/cloth/etc just won't be strong enough to restrain Shardplate. 1
PinkPlasma she/her Posted May 8, 2023 Posted May 8, 2023 13 hours ago, cometaryorbit said: - Susebron Awakening... IDK. This would only work with special materials available, I think; normal wood/cloth/etc just won't be strong enough to restrain Shardplate. I had honestly forgetten about the shardplate, that coupled with the pewter and stormlight + gold compounding, this really is a terrifying combination of powers
therunner he/him Posted May 8, 2023 Posted May 8, 2023 On 04/05/2023 at 4:46 PM, alder24 said: Because Wax using the Bands was able to see the souls of people around him, see not just traces of metal but axi themself and view them as made of the same thing, energy, investiture, matter is the same thing. That's why a powerful steelsight like Rashek has would be able to see axi and souls of people inside CR. Note that Wax has literally zero experience with CR, much less SR, so him saying he sees 'souls' is at best poetic description of seeing people, and possibly some more physical aspects of Investiture in them. There is no evidence that steelsight, even of such power, lets you see into CR. 1
alder24 Posted May 8, 2023 Posted May 8, 2023 33 minutes ago, therunner said: Note that Wax has literally zero experience with CR, much less SR, so him saying he sees 'souls' is at best poetic description of seeing people, and possibly some more physical aspects of Investiture in them. There is no evidence that steelsight, even of such power, lets you see into CR. Well there was a voice whispering to him (maybe Harmony?), BoM ch 29: Quote The blue lines spread from him as a brilliant web, seeking sources of metal smaller—and farther away—than he could normally sense. At times this seemed to flicker, and for a moment he saw the radiance inside of each person and thing. It felt as if he might be able to move those too. An awed voice in the back of his mind whispered, They’re all the same. Metal, minds, men, all the same substance.… [...] Feet thumped away from the door. Wax could actually watch them go—not by their metals, but by the signature their souls made. In moments, he could see nobody there, or hiding anywhere around the bridge. For me the description clearly indicates that Wax has seen something more than physical. We also know that steel lines are spiritual in nature and because all souls exist in SR, there is no difference if they are in PR or CR - based on that I see no reason why a powerful steelsight won't be able to see beyond Physical Realm. Quote relient23 (paraphrased) Are the lines that an Allomancer sees when burning iron or steel are in the Physical Realm, the Spiritual Realm, or the Cognitive Realm. Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) It is more Spiritual Realm than anything. Shadows of Self Houston signing (Oct. 7, 2015)
therunner he/him Posted May 9, 2023 Posted May 9, 2023 14 hours ago, alder24 said: Well there was a voice whispering to him (maybe Harmony?), BoM ch 29: Possibly, however the voice merely says that "They are all the same". And since we know that matter, energy and Investiture are the same thing, this makes sense. That alone is not evidence he can see into CR (much less SR), only that with powerful enough steelsight, you can possibly detect not only metals (or anything possibly magnetic) but also Investiture. 14 hours ago, alder24 said: For me the description clearly indicates that Wax has seen something more than physical. I don't think it is anything more than something along the lines of powerful enough Life sense. Do all Awakeners see into SR? Quote We also know that steel lines are spiritual in nature and because all souls exist in SR, there is no difference if they are in PR or CR - Steel lines are spiritual in nature because they are Connection formed in SR, however that does not mean their visible manifestation for Metalborn is them seeing into SR or CR. And there is a difference, while most things have manifestation in all 3 realms, seeing manifestation of a thing in PR, does not mean you see into CR or SR. Quote based on that I see no reason why a powerful steelsight won't be able to see beyond Physical Realm. And I don't see a reason why it should, since what Wax experiences can be explained by Investiture manifested in PR. It seems to me that lately all the Metallic Arts are getting heavily speculated upon, and stretched into increasingly extreme powers, and this feels like that to me. There are some metals that allow user to peer into Spiritual realm, they are Gold, Electrum, Atium and Pure Atium (and their other alloys possibly). I don't know why should physical metal like Steel do both Physical thing and spiritual thing at the same time.
cometaryorbit Posted May 10, 2023 Posted May 10, 2023 (edited) I don't think that voice is Harmony's, since it's "awed". I think that is just Wax's thoughts... though admittedly voices like that in the Mistborn series are suspicious. I don't think Wax is seeing into the Cognitive in the way that Shallan or Venli or Kaza in Stormlight do with the Transformation or Transportation Surges. We know what the Scadrian Cognitive looks like - a world of mist - and Wax isn't seeing that. Looking into the Spiritual Realm is something else again. Either it's Cognitive-mediated like the visions in Stormlight or it's future sight like atium or it's the full vision of possibilities that Preservation gives Kelsier or Elend gets by burning duralumin and atium. That's not what Wax is doing either. What he is seeing is Investiture in Physical people and objects ("the radiance inside of each person and thing"). Or possibly both Investiture and energy; there's a WoB that the strongest levels of steelsight would let you see things like fundamental forces, so the radiance in the objects (vs people's souls) might be more energy than Investiture. I don't think this would let him see beings that have no presence in the Physical. I don't think there is really a "just look into the Cognitive" power in the Metallic Arts. Elend got the full vision of possibilities, but that's a very different thing ... and a pretty unique situation. Edited May 10, 2023 by cometaryorbit 1
Eli Posted May 14, 2023 Posted May 14, 2023 I haven’t put a lot of thought into it yet but I feel like a mistborn with just brass,pewter, and duralumin could kill most any person, even a full surge binder. If they did what Vin did to Straff by using brass and duralumin to soothe someone’s emotions away to where it feels crushing and then switching to pewter to kill them even if they needed combining pewter and duralumin to obliterate someones head in one punch.
alder24 Posted May 14, 2023 Posted May 14, 2023 23 minutes ago, Eli said: I haven’t put a lot of thought into it yet but I feel like a mistborn with just brass,pewter, and duralumin could kill most any person, even a full surge binder. If they did what Vin did to Straff by using brass and duralumin to soothe someone’s emotions away to where it feels crushing and then switching to pewter to kill them even if they needed combining pewter and duralumin to obliterate someones head in one punch. Shardplate would protect a Surgebinder from emotional Allomancy: Spoiler BasakaIsTheStrongest Does Shardplate provide protection against emotional Allomancy? Brandon Sanderson Yes. Don't dismiss your helmet when you're around an Allomancer. YouTube Spoiler Stream 4 (June 16, 2022) The more somebody is invested, the harder it is to affect their emotions: Spoiler Questioner God-King versus God-King. Susebron versus Rashek, who comes out on top? Brandon Sanderson Rashek, probably. Questioner By a lot or a little? Brandon Sanderson Well, here's the thing. I think Susebron is at the disadvantage in almost every situation. Questioner Okay. How so? Brandon Sanderson Rashek has been alive longer. Rashek knows what he's doing. Rashek has martial training. Rashek has killed a lot of people, Susebron never has. Fewer scruples. His magic is way more combat-oriented. He can get out of range a lot easier. He has power emotional Allomancy, which Susebron would *inaudible*. Granted, he's got so much investiture, he may be able to shrug that off. But still, I would put Rashek at the advantage. Skyward release party (Nov. 6, 2018) And welcome to the Shard
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