Fullborn vs. 5th ideal windrunner 2.0

[therunner he/him]

7 hours ago, Nameless* said:

F-gold has never been shown to have a limitation. Normal Radiant healing seems to have a limit given how difficult it is to force Stormlight to heal Shardblade wounds, but tapping massive quantities of F-gold should not be a problem. Stacking Radiant healing and Regrowth might make healing abilities stronger like Mistborn with spikes, but the difference between Feruchemy and Allomancy is that Feruchemy has no cap. If powerful enough healing could heal a Shardblade to the head/upper spine, then F-gold can almost certainly do it. The only healing power I'd put above a Fullborn with unlimited metal's F-gold would be a Returned's Divine Breath.

F-Gold has also never encountered Shardblade, or really had to heal anything but ordinary physical damage.
So I would say it is a bit early to say such thing for certain.

And healing Shardblade wounds with Stormlight is not difficult? Mere 3rd Oath Radiant can easily do it.

7 hours ago, Nameless* said:

Regardless, Wyndle told Lift in Edgedancer that she would have been able to heal a girl killed by a Shardblade if she'd attempted to do so immediately after it happened, and didn't mention any such technique.

That is again external healing applied upon someone.
Also, there are differences between the two situations per WoB

Spoiler

BlackYeti

If you remember from the original version of Words of Radiance, Kaladin rammed a Shardblade through Szeth’s chest, after which Nale found Szeth and healed him with a fabrial. However in Edgedancer Lift tries to heal a girl who had also had a Shardblade rammed through her chest, and it didn’t work. Wyndle then explains that since she was killed by Shardblade, she cannot be healed at all, unless she is healed right after it happened. Since Nale was obviously not with Szeth and Kaladin to heal him immediately, this appears to be a contradiction.

Therefore, either Nale has some way to remotely heal someone (of which we have no evidence), "right after" is being used very loosely, or when Brandon changed the scene to have Szeth fall to his death instead, he also changed the rules governing what can or can’t be healed.

If so, what other rules could have been changed at the same time? Is there some additional significance to the change in wording from fabrial to Surgebinding for instance? Moreover this would be a somewhat significant precedent that Brandon is setting, and I’m not sure what to make of it.

Peter Ahlstrom

The way it worked in WoR's first draft is still canonical. There are subtle things that make the two situations different.

Miscellaneous 2016 (Nov. 22, 2016)

 

7 hours ago, Nameless* said:

While the Fullborn is constantly compounding the infinite metals that they have, using either Duraluminum or compounded Nicrosil to enhance the burn rate to levels higher than TLR, their soul is invested more than enough to heal the connection, so long as it is capable of doing so. Given that a Regrowth Fabrial can do it, I think its safe to say a Fullborn can as well.

The problem is still the same, all that Investiture is coming from their physical body, they need either metalminds to tap, or metal in body to burn.
If the connection to body is severed, Fullborn has no more access to Investiture, and no more Investiture.

Edited April 6, 2023 by therunner
spelling after midnight

[Duxredux he/him]

On 4/5/2023 at 6:23 PM, therunner said:

F-Gold has also never encountered Shardblade, or really had to heal anything but ordinary physical damage.
So I would say it is a bit early to say such thing for certain.

F-Gold with a TON of stored health can heal Hemalurgic wounds including restoring spiked out abilities, per WoBs (questioners were trying to figure out if Miles could be made into an Invested spike factory). It's not unversal, so read what Brandon specifically says though. Who knows if a clean slice of the soul is easier to repair than holes ripped out (at least with normal medical treatment, healing even a deep sharp cut takes less time than a gouged out chunk of flesh).

Spoiler

HazelCharm47

Let's say we have a hypothetical situation with Miles Hundredlives. In this scenario, he is wearing a gold metalmind filled to the brim with stored healing power. He is then spiked with a cadmium spike and loses his gold allomancy.

Now, if I recall from various WoBs, he would be able to heal using the gold metalmind and regain his gold allomancy. I could be misremembering and he cannot heal it, but I believe he would be able to since it is part of his Identity.

However, one question I have never seen the answer to is this: what happens to the ability in the spike? Is the allomantic ability still contained in the spike, leading to a duplicate? Or is the spike's ability lost? Or maybe I have this whole thing wrong and Miles could never have regained the ability in the first place.

If the ability duplicates (which I doubt), that could lead to some crazy things. Also, this applies to any Twinborn with gold Feruchemy, I just thought Miles was a good example I guess

Brandon Sanderson

I'd like to see the exact WoB's here to make sure I'm being consistent, as I don't know that I confirmed you could regain lost powers--only that you could heal from hemalurgic soul damage. Most likely, what you'd end up with is a person who has been healed and can remove the spike from their body without damage, and without needing it to hold their soul together--but who has lost the ability in the spike.

Regardless, though, what you want here (the mass production of spikes charged and even blanked) is possible with the right levels of investiture. It's an energy, like things in our world. The difficulty is finding out how to 1) get enough investiture and 2) key it to the right people and/or magic.

Hope that's a little more clear.

That said, a lot of times people just ask me if something is possible--and a lot of things are possible, but just very difficult. And with the right boost of investiture, in the right circumstances, it WOULD be possible to regrow lost (to spikes) powers. It's just highly unlikely.

I'm not sure if the questions people are asking me are ones I've qualified, or not, in these instances. Also, this is all something I'm playing with still behind the scenes as we enter the modern age of Mistborn.

HazelCharm47

As requested, here are the WoBs I believe are related. They might be obsolete, however. And I assume things will get changed a lot before Era 4, but hey, it's fun to ask anyways

WoB #1:

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/331/#e9434

This one states that as long as Miles still has his Identity, he would be able to use his Feruchemical metalminds after being spiked and would be able to heal.

WoB #2:

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/102/#e983

This one says that Miles would be able to heal his soul using Feruchemical healing and regain his gold Allomancy (assuming he survives the spiking). I think this is the most essential one!

WoB #3:

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/76/#e6335

This one is only somewhat related - implies that the Feruchemical and Allomantic powers are spiritually part of him.

WoB #4:

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/7/#e6435

Also tangentially related - damage to the soul from Hemalurgy can be healed (Although this might just be a Hoid thing). I guess the question could be expanded to include non-Feruchemical healing as a way to repair the soul after being spiked.

Brandon Sanderson

Well, I don't think any of those are specifically inaccurate. I just didn't quite understand what people were trying to get out of me. A lot of times, I don't know quite what people are trying to get out of me. I can see now they're trying to figure out.

I see now, and I appreciate you putting this all together for me so I can see what the fans are trying to figure out. So the answer is a cautious yes. The problem here is that he'd need to compound a TON of healing first--but yes, it would work. You could theoretically turn someone like Miles into an invested spike factory.

If he didn't have enough healing stored, though, he'd end up with a healed soul but a gap (like a scar on his soul) where his spiked-out abilities were. That could theoretically be healed with application of more investiture, depending on things like how he views himself, and if you could get the right type of investiture.

General Reddit 2020 (Nov. 6, 2020)

I don't think it's been noted in this thread yet, but a Fullborn should have resources to block a Shardblade. A full metalmind is actually one of the better things you can use to fight a Shardblade, and Aluminum certainly works.

Spoiler

Questioner

If something is heavily Invested, it's harder for a Shardblade to go through it, right?

Brandon Sanderson

Kind of. It depends on the kind of Investiture and things that are going on. But yes. If you want to block a Shardblade... Like a metalmind would be a good thing to use to fight a Shardblade.

Questioner

A person with a lot of Breath, like the God-King, would you be able to chop them with a Shardblade or no?

Brandon Sanderson

It's going to get very tricky on that, so I'll RAFO that for now. Let's just say that there are things. For instance, a Shardblade excising someone who's been Hemalurgically spiked is a theoretical possibility. 

Starsight Release Party (Nov. 26, 2019)

As for what and where the Fullborn gets cut, Wax apparently has heard of Bloodmakers regrowing from a severed limb, though it looks like he doesn't really know.

I still think a Fullborn with at least one good anchor could move around in zero G, though I have no estimate on distance they could reasonably travel.

How does this sound:

1. Store weight

2. Push anchor opposite direction of travel

3. Once in motion, tap weight and Pull anchor back.

4. Repeat

This might work even better:

1. Gently Push anchor in direction of travel

2. Burn Bendalloy creating a time bubble with the anchor outside.

3. Store weight

4. Pull yourself toward the anchor

5. Drop speed bubble before you hit the boundary and refract

6. Tap weight, catch anchor as it hits you

Repeat. This should get higher acceleration.

In space, if you were to throw a tethered ball and reel it back in you shouldn't have a net change in velocity. With variable weight though, they should be able to build up momentum based on the difference between the Stored and Tapped weight.

[therunner he/him]

28 minutes ago, Duxredux said:

F-Gold with a TON of stored health can heal Hemalurgic wounds including restoring spiked out abilities, per WoBs (questioners were trying to figure out if Miles could be made into an Invested spike factory). It's not unversal, so read what Brandon specifically says though. Who knows if a clean slice of the soul is easier to repair than holes ripped out (at least with normal medical treatment, healing even a deep sharp cut takes less time than a gouged out chunk of flesh).

  Reveal hidden contents

HazelCharm47

Let's say we have a hypothetical situation with Miles Hundredlives. In this scenario, he is wearing a gold metalmind filled to the brim with stored healing power. He is then spiked with a cadmium spike and loses his gold allomancy.

Now, if I recall from various WoBs, he would be able to heal using the gold metalmind and regain his gold allomancy. I could be misremembering and he cannot heal it, but I believe he would be able to since it is part of his Identity.

However, one question I have never seen the answer to is this: what happens to the ability in the spike? Is the allomantic ability still contained in the spike, leading to a duplicate? Or is the spike's ability lost? Or maybe I have this whole thing wrong and Miles could never have regained the ability in the first place.

If the ability duplicates (which I doubt), that could lead to some crazy things. Also, this applies to any Twinborn with gold Feruchemy, I just thought Miles was a good example I guess

Brandon Sanderson

I'd like to see the exact WoB's here to make sure I'm being consistent, as I don't know that I confirmed you could regain lost powers--only that you could heal from hemalurgic soul damage. Most likely, what you'd end up with is a person who has been healed and can remove the spike from their body without damage, and without needing it to hold their soul together--but who has lost the ability in the spike.

Regardless, though, what you want here (the mass production of spikes charged and even blanked) is possible with the right levels of investiture. It's an energy, like things in our world. The difficulty is finding out how to 1) get enough investiture and 2) key it to the right people and/or magic.

Hope that's a little more clear.

That said, a lot of times people just ask me if something is possible--and a lot of things are possible, but just very difficult. And with the right boost of investiture, in the right circumstances, it WOULD be possible to regrow lost (to spikes) powers. It's just highly unlikely.

I'm not sure if the questions people are asking me are ones I've qualified, or not, in these instances. Also, this is all something I'm playing with still behind the scenes as we enter the modern age of Mistborn.

HazelCharm47

As requested, here are the WoBs I believe are related. They might be obsolete, however. And I assume things will get changed a lot before Era 4, but hey, it's fun to ask anyways

WoB #1:

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/331/#e9434

This one states that as long as Miles still has his Identity, he would be able to use his Feruchemical metalminds after being spiked and would be able to heal.

WoB #2:

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/102/#e983

This one says that Miles would be able to heal his soul using Feruchemical healing and regain his gold Allomancy (assuming he survives the spiking). I think this is the most essential one!

WoB #3:

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/76/#e6335

This one is only somewhat related - implies that the Feruchemical and Allomantic powers are spiritually part of him.

WoB #4:

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/7/#e6435

Also tangentially related - damage to the soul from Hemalurgy can be healed (Although this might just be a Hoid thing). I guess the question could be expanded to include non-Feruchemical healing as a way to repair the soul after being spiked.

Brandon Sanderson

Well, I don't think any of those are specifically inaccurate. I just didn't quite understand what people were trying to get out of me. A lot of times, I don't know quite what people are trying to get out of me. I can see now they're trying to figure out.

I see now, and I appreciate you putting this all together for me so I can see what the fans are trying to figure out. So the answer is a cautious yes. The problem here is that he'd need to compound a TON of healing first--but yes, it would work. You could theoretically turn someone like Miles into an invested spike factory.

If he didn't have enough healing stored, though, he'd end up with a healed soul but a gap (like a scar on his soul) where his spiked-out abilities were. That could theoretically be healed with application of more investiture, depending on things like how he views himself, and if you could get the right type of investiture.

General Reddit 2020 (Nov. 6, 2020)

 

Oh, Fullborn could heal cut from Shardblade, I was just disputing that F-gold is more efficient than Stormlight healing for soul wounds. We have zero evidence to say so, and some WoBs hinting the opposite, that Stormlight healing is more spiritual based and so more efficient in that regard.

28 minutes ago, Duxredux said:

don't think it's been noted in this thread yet, but a Fullborn should have resources to block a Shardblade. A full metalmind is actually one of the better things you can use to fight a Shardblade, and Aluminum certainly works.

  Reveal hidden contents

Questioner

If something is heavily Invested, it's harder for a Shardblade to go through it, right?

Brandon Sanderson

Kind of. It depends on the kind of Investiture and things that are going on. But yes. If you want to block a Shardblade... Like a metalmind would be a good thing to use to fight a Shardblade.

Questioner

A person with a lot of Breath, like the God-King, would you be able to chop them with a Shardblade or no?

Brandon Sanderson

It's going to get very tricky on that, so I'll RAFO that for now. Let's just say that there are things. For instance, a Shardblade excising someone who's been Hemalurgically spiked is a theoretical possibility. 

Starsight Release Party (Nov. 26, 2019)

 

Full metalmind is said to be 'middle of the realm', comparable to half-shard, and those can block Shardblade for one or two hits.
So Shardblade does damage to heavily invested items, so question is, how will that interact with metalminds?

Edit: (accidentally posted before finishing)

Quote

As for what and where the Fullborn gets cut, Wax apparently has heard of Bloodmakers regrowing from a severed limb, though it looks like he doesn't really know.

Yeah, but that is 'just' regular damage, Radiant could possibly heal like that as well (if they had enough Stormlight).
Key here is that if Shardblade severs spine/head and so removes severs Fullborns link to his body, Fullborn is left without access to Investiture and so cannot heal at all.

Quote

I still think a Fullborn with at least one good anchor could move around in zero G, though I have no estimate on distance they could reasonably travel.

How does this sound:

1. Store weight

2. Push anchor opposite direction of travel

3. Once in motion, tap weight and Pull anchor back.

4. Repeat

This might work even better:

1. Gently Push anchor in direction of travel

2. Burn Bendalloy creating a time bubble with the anchor outside.

3. Store weight

4. Pull yourself toward the anchor

5. Drop speed bubble before you hit the boundary and refract

6. Tap weight, catch anchor as it hits you

Repeat. This should get higher acceleration.

In space, if you were to throw a tethered ball and reel it back in you shouldn't have a net change in velocity. With variable weight though, they should be able to build up momentum based on the difference between the Stored and Tapped weight.

The second option won't work, you cannot push/pull objects outside of speed bubbles. (they interfere with Investiture).

The first option still won't work, since F-Iron conserves momentum (you slow down when tapping, speed up when storing), so you get exactly one push on the anchor, and if you try to recall it back, you lose all the momentum you gained that way (and you would end up right where you started when the anchor gets back to original position).
Basically, you can push on the anchor, but you cannot pull it back, else all the movement is undone.

So the first option lets you move like a yo-yo around central point, back and forth, but will not get you any net movement (unless you just push away and lose the anchor).

Edited April 11, 2023 by therunner

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

23 hours ago, therunner said:

Full metalmind is said to be 'middle of the realm', comparable to half-shard, and those can block Shardblade for one or two hits.
So Shardblade does damage to heavily invested items, so question is, how will that interact with metalminds?

This is a thing I have thought about a lot. 

How does investiture block a shardblade? I dont know that is is the investiture itself so much as invested materials used to make the object / item. Investiture doesnt block the blade.  Investiture blocks the magical cutting of a shardblade. The material is what matters for blocking blades. 

A highly invested awakened cloth may be able to grab onto a shardblade lastclap style but if the blade were to hit the cloth it would cut it like any other sharp sword would cut through that cloth. 

The type of investiture surely matters: 

Stormlight leaks quickly from broken gems and the brutal blows of a shardblade to crack what is holding that stormlight are why halfshards and deadplate have issues.  Living plate surrounding a radiant who is using light constantly obviously will heal those cracks faster (perhaps as they happen). Those cracks in deadplate and halfshards arent healing quickly or efficiently enough to matter in the long run. Deadplate can regrow itself with stormlight but nowhere near as fast as living plate. 

Metalminds dont lose investiture when they are broken or cut. Feruchemical storage seems to be very very sticky. (Much the same as breaths would be to cloth but this is to metal). I imagine feruchemically charged metalminds would be able to constantly withstand blows from a shardblade and never lose that ability as shardblades don't actually leech investiture. The metalmind would not last all that long as armor against heavy meaningful blows from a shardblade but the failure would be due to deformation not a lack of being able to stop the magical cutting ability of the blade. 

The advantage of having metalminds as armor would be that you can heal the damage underneath as normal blunt force damage. Until the blade could naturally break through the metalmind there will be no magical cutting ability no matter how many blows are delivered as metalminds dont leak investiture and shardblades arent leeching in anyway.

It is far better to have your spren turn into a blunt weapon to deform the metalmind as quickly as possible than to keep swinging with a sword hoping to sever the spine of someone wearing protective metalmind armor. 

I go back and forth on what is most efficient for the fullborn / feruchemist but I do believe chainmail made entirely of metalminds would be the best option as you could probably fill it faster and it is harder to deform while providing plenty of protection from the cutting edge of a shardblade. 

 

If there is any evidence that shardblades do leech investiture vs just breaking things and it leaking out I am willing to change my mind on this but given that metalminds can be seperated and split up without losing power (just having it split with the metalmind) I really don't think a shardblade breaking a metalmind would do anything to that metalminds ability to stop the cutting edge with either half next time as well. 

The only reason we see plate and halfshards work the way we do is because stormlight is not sticky and leaks freely when not contained in a perfect gem or piece of plate. When the plate or gems get cracked the investiture granting them magical protection flows out of them as freely as water does when poured out of a container. The bigger the crack the bigger the pour spout. 

 

The best magical protection from shardblades is metalmind / awakened chainmail on top of padding (If an awakened piece of padded clothing can be worn underneath the chainmail to provide it the ability to move thus making it harder to break that is even better). The gold healing of a person wearing this type of magical armor would certainly prove to be a huge boon and since chainmail can easily be worn covering the entirety of the spine then a fullborn with this in place would be virtually immune to a spine severing blow anyways. 

You would have to actively leech the investiture from the metalminds and shardblades dont leech. 

[therunner he/him]

7 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Stormlight leaks quickly from broken gems and the brutal blows of a shardblade to crack what is holding that stormlight are why halfshards and deadplate have issues.  Living plate surrounding a radiant who is using light constantly obviously will heal those cracks faster (perhaps as they happen). Those cracks in deadplate and halfshards arent healing quickly or efficiently enough to matter in the long run. Deadplate can regrow itself with stormlight but nowhere near as fast as living plate.

I don't think that is it.

One, in half-shard the fabrial is one the opposite side, so is completely shielded by the actual material of the shield, and even then non-plated Shardblade wielder can break them in two blows.
Two, Shardplate section can withstand minutes of superahuman blows from multiple assailants, will withstand bullets well, and yet 2-3 hits from Shardblade brake a section, even when opponent does not have Shardplate.

In both scenarios the material breaks despite the supernatural cutting being negated through material being Invested (and in the second case Shardplate is far harder than most metals and is also much more Invested than any metalmind), but it still breaks far faster then when attacked by non-Shardblade. So clearly, being Invested is insufficient protection against Shardblade.

So something else must be going on. Since Shardblade cuts on all 3 realms, I would wager that even though the Investiture in the objects prevents it from being penetrated by Shardblade, the hit still damages it on cognitive and spiritual Realms. I.e. the Investiture/spiritweb of the objects gets damaged.

And we only have WoBs that Invested objects resist being cut, not that they are immune to being cut. So I would conclude that somehow Shardblade damages the Spiritual aspect of the metalmind, and so degrades (not leeches) the Investiture within it. You can still use it to block, but I bet it will get damaged and it would eventually fail.

Edit: And this WoB literally says that metalmind will break after repeated hits from Shardblade

Quote

Questioner

How many smacks would it take from a Shardblade to break, say, a metalmind.

Brandon Sanderson

A metalmind? Depends on how much it's invested.

Shadows of Self Portland signing (Oct. 10, 2015)

 

Edited April 12, 2023 by therunner

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

3 hours ago, therunner said:

I don't think that is it.

One, in half-shard the fabrial is one the opposite side, so is completely shielded by the actual material of the shield, and even then non-plated Shardblade wielder can break them in two blows.
Two, Shardplate section can withstand minutes of superahuman blows from multiple assailants, will withstand bullets well, and yet 2-3 hits from Shardblade brake a section, even when opponent does not have Shardplate.

In both scenarios the material breaks despite the supernatural cutting being negated through material being Invested (and in the second case Shardplate is far harder than most metals and is also much more Invested than any metalmind), but it still breaks far faster then when attacked by non-Shardblade. So clearly, being Invested is insufficient protection against Shardblade.

So something else must be going on. Since Shardblade cuts on all 3 realms, I would wager that even though the Investiture in the objects prevents it from being penetrated by Shardblade, the hit still damages it on cognitive and spiritual Realms. I.e. the Investiture/spiritweb of the objects gets damaged.

And we only have WoBs that Invested objects resist being cut, not that they are immune to being cut. So I would conclude that somehow Shardblade damages the Spiritual aspect of the metalmind, and so degrades (not leeches) the Investiture within it. You can still use it to block, but I bet it will get damaged and it would eventually fail.

Edit: And this WoB literally says that metalmind will break after repeated hits from Shardblade

 

Spoiler

Questioner

Since you have basically established that spren are at least to some extent alive, how is it possible for a Shardblade to not cut right through a living weapon, like Syl for example.

Brandon Sanderson

What you are seeing is: when they are pulling through into the Physical Realm they are creating something that is not 100% physical, not 100% metal, it's like an amalgamation of the two. And that is doing something very special that then prevents other things from cutting through it. It's specifically the way that it's happening. You could make this happen with other things too.

Another big part of it is the amount of Investiture. If something is highly Invested it's going to stop a Shardblade too, because the Investiture is gonna kinda bounce off of each other. It's theoretical, for instance, you could make a Hemalurgic spike that would stop a Shardblade...

So, Invest something highly and it will stop a Shardblade almost always. But, you can cut souls; they are highly Invested also. So you need something in the Physical Realm that is pulling power through from the other Realms.

Bonn Signing (May 15, 2019)

Spoiler

Bridge4AM (paraphrased)

What would happen if you tried to cut aluminum with a shardblade?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

A shardblade would not cut aluminum.

Footnote: This contradicts a previous WoB where Brandon said shardblades could cut aluminum. This contradiction is addressed here.
An Evening with Brandon Sanderson (Feb. 1, 2017)

 

Spoiler

Yata

Hi, the community has a [question], we have two WoBs: Shardblades can cut aluminum and Shardblades can't cut it. Which one is true?

Brandon Sanderson (Part 1/Part 2/Part 3)

Hm. Yes, I wondered last night if I'd ever answered this before. Truth is, the answer is contentious at Team Sanderson.

I've been pushing for one answer, but Peter (whom I trust) is pushing back. We will see what ends up in the books as canon.

Problem with magic like I do is sometimes you have to wait for the scientific consensus... Err on "no" for now.

Peter Ahlstrom (Part 1/Part 2/Part 3)

Oh, I think aluminum would stop Shardblades from magical cutting. But if it's too thin like foil, a sword...

...would cut it anyway. What I'm arguing is that something else that Shardblades don't cut doesn't need...

...to necessarily be made of aluminum, for various reasons.

Yata

For example Invested objects (metalmind,spike,etc) or polestones (from some SA's Quote) ?

Peter Ahlstrom

RAFO

Footnote: The two conflicting WoBs can be found here and here. Also the "something else" that Peter was referring to is likely the Shardblade guards, which have since been confirmed to not be aluminum.
General Twitter 2017 (Feb. 3, 2017)

Spoiler

Questioner

Shardblades cut organic and inorganic matter differently. How would they interact with an animated construct like an Awakened straw man? What about a Lifeless?

Brandon Sanderson

So I walk kind of a fine line here. Something that's animated as a construct, like an Awakened straw man, is likely going to block the Shardblade to some extent, as powerful Investiture would. A Lifeless is probably just gonna act like it was a living being.

San Diego Comic-Con@Home 2020 (July 23, 2020)

Spoiler

Questioner

Could a mindblade break a Shardblade? Could a mindblade stop a Shardblade, or would a Shardblade stop a mindblade?

Brandon Sanderson

I think that a Shardblade would stop a mindblade. And whether the mindblade could stop the Shardblade or not would depend on the power of the cytonic and how strong their mind is.

FanX 2021 (Sept. 18, 2021)

Spoiler

WeiryWriter

Does hair that is still attached to a person's head get cut if a Shardblade passes through it? If not, if that person had the Royal Locks could they change the color of the hair "below" the cut?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, hair gets cut. It counts as dead in my mind--but not to someone who has the Royal Locks. They could only change below, as you state, and wouldn't get their hair chopped off. (I'm not 100% sure on this, but I Think I've mentioned in Stormlight before that you can cut things like shells on living animals with a Shardblade, but then it doesn't cut the flesh.)

WeiryWriter

With the Royal Locks, the individual would be able to change the color in the bit between the cut and the scalp? (In my original question I had meant "below" to mean the bit between the cut and the end whereas your answer uses it the opposite, I think?)

Brandon Sanderson

Distance between scalp and cut, yes you can change that. Otherwise every time you got a haircut, you wouldn't be able to change the hair. Maybe I don't get your question.

WeiryWriter

So just for clarity's sake is the following correct:

Let's say Siri's hair is two feet long. A shardblade passes through the hair exactly in the middle ("dividing" the hair into two one-foot sections). In your previous answer you said that while usually the shardblade would just sever the hair (leaving only a foot attached to the head) with the Royal locks the entire two feet would remain attached but only the foot on the "head" side of the cut would be able to change color.

Thank you, I just want to make sure there is zero doubt in what is actually going on.

Brandon Sanderson

I did misinterpret your original question. As a shardblade cut is likely to be wider than a piece of hair, I doubt you could cut the royal locks lengthwise.

Footnote: It appears that Brandon most assuredly did not understand the question.
/r/books AMA 2015 (March 12, 2015)

Okay I know that this is just a word dump of WoBs but they all discuss shardblades cutting power.  

 

I am slightly torn after reading them.  

I wanted to believe that investiture fueled items would work like aluminum to block a shardblade.  

In one WoB it says the straw man would be able to block a shardblade but in my mind a sword cuts through straw so this confuses me.  Then again we see regular swords cutting through awakened cloth so the investiture in an awakened object blocks shardblades but not a simple sword?  

Metalminds obviously can block a shardblade but how long?  My issue is that we see plate leaking stormlight when it is getting cracked and broken no matter if it is hit by a rock or hit by a shardblade.  So plate acts more brittle than steel. Steel would have much more give and a layer of rivited mail made of steel would have even more give than a steel plate to a physical attack.  If it absorbs the physical aspects of weapon blows then we really need to understand the mechanism for shardblades destroying half shards and plate.  

I get that half shards and plate act like this but the way they respond to physical attacks is not so different as you pointed out... it just takes more of them.  

Would a layer of locks protect a persons neck from a slice from a shardblade?  Would the straw man be cut in half from the blade?  

In the case of aluminum the blade acts just like a sword vs the aluminum and if the aluminum is not thick enough to withstand the physical blow the blade goes right through it.  

If investirure simply gets leeched (again the plate pouring out stormlight hints in my mind that there is no leeching happening) and the investiture blocks the shardblade attack physical attack and all, then an awakener with layers of awakened clothing might fare far better than someone behind a halfshard right? Even if each layer required 2 attacks to get through it really wouldn't be much layering before your average awakener has more protection than shardplate.  

Metalminds don't leak investiture when broken at all.  If there are 15 hrs of speed stored in an earing and you cut it in half then you have 2 halves of an earing holding 7.5 hrs of stored speed.  The types of investiture are different.  

 

Though I do appreciate the idea of the shardblade separating the parts of the item.  

Is investiture really working that way though?  If stormlight were being separated from the items physical and spiritual why would plate leak no matter what is striking it?  

Would shot placement make no difference in this case?  Perhaps the shardblade is simply bludgeoning the investiture off of all of the items?  

Sadly we haven't really seen any examples of a shardblade hitting something and then that thing being measured for its investiture.  

Personally I feel like it makes sense that invested items would work more like aluminum but then again... a straw man could stop a shardblade according to WoB.  

Maybe awakeners vs shardbearers is a better match than I thought.  

As for feruchemists and shardblade blocking... I honestly don't know. The aluminum chainmail is definately a favorite for shardblade sparring though.  

Also I never knew this and find it interesting as well.  The magical cutting of shardblades exists thanks to Brandon not wanting such a gorey entry for Szeth into the world:

Spoiler

Argent

Shardblades burn out the eyes of the victims, and deadeyes have their eyes scratched out in Shadesmar. Is the connection here purely thematic? Or are there actual Realmatic mechanics behind it?

Brandon Sanderson

There are, but they're pretty slight. I would lean more on the idea of the thematic, this more being a Roshar thing, with the eye color, the eyes being scratched out, Shardblades burning out the eyes. There are some Realmatic things behind this, but mostly it's me trying to connect a theme in this magic system.

As you might know (maybe, maybe not), Shardblades originally did cut flesh. I wrote the entire prologue with Szeth and them cutting flesh and... ooh, boy, was that bloody! These are books about war, but man, it was just so gory that I'm like, "I'm gonna back off on this. Let's have it burn out the eyes instead." And I liked it way better that way.

San Diego Comic-Con@Home 2020 (July 23, 2020)

Edit: 

Another thought that has crossed my mind.  Shardblades don't damage nor destroy other shardblades.  This goes for nightblood and vivennas blade as well. 

Is it the sword shape that prevents them from being damaged and seemingly leeched or something else?  

Is there a breakpoint of investiture where a shardblade cannot drain the item?  If there is it would appear that awakened metal is capable of reaching that point. The bands likely could as well.  

Or do you think enough strikes from shardblades to other shardblades would destroy them too?  We see Nightblood damage an honorblade.  Is it the amount of investiture present?  Because if it is then shardplate, even living, is far far far less invested than an item capable of delivering these investiture severing attacks.  What do you suppose the breakpoint is?  

Nightblood took only 1000 breaths.  You could say he continues to consume more but vivennas blade works similarly to shardblades and doesn't appear to be a constant investiture sucking item.   

 

I think there has to be more to invested metal than what we are seeing and I think sticky investiture is far better vs shardblades than leaky light.  

Edited April 13, 2023 by Tamriel Wolfsbaine

[therunner he/him]

6 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

I wanted to believe that investiture fueled items would work like aluminum to block a shardblade. 

Aluminum negates the Invested power cutting itself, Invested item just matches 'strength' against 'strength'.
So instead of just physical strength of material, it is also spiritual or Invested strength that gets matched.

Quote

In one WoB it says the straw man would be able to block a shardblade but in my mind a sword cuts through straw so this confuses me.  Then again we see regular swords cutting through awakened cloth so the investiture in an awakened object blocks shardblades but not a simple sword?  

The WoB does not say the straw man would block the Shardblade, only 'block to some extant', i.e. resist

Spoiler

Questioner

Shardblades cut organic and inorganic matter differently. How would they interact with an animated construct like an Awakened straw man? What about a Lifeless?

Brandon Sanderson

So I walk kind of a fine line here. Something that's animated as a construct, like an Awakened straw man, is likely going to block the Shardblade to some extent, as powerful Investiture would. A Lifeless is probably just gonna act like it was a living being.

San Diego Comic-Con@Home 2020 (July 23, 2020)

And considering Lifeless would act like living being, I would wager that straw man with single breath would get cut just as easily as anything basically not Invested. If you dump couple thousand Breaths in straw man, then it would resist better.

Additionally, we see Shardblade cut through Invested cloth in RoW, in the duel of Vasher and Kaladin (where we know Vasher used Awakening), and it does not seem that it offers really any noticeable resistance, Quotes (note that Sylblade is dull for most of the fight, and only becomes sharp when mentioned):

Spoiler

A face and figure formed in nearby sheet, puffing toward Kaladin as if someone were walking through on the other side. He struck immediately, driving his sword through the sheet. It ripped - the point was still sharp enough for that - but didn't strike anyone beyond.
Syl momentarily became sharp - changing before he could ask - as he swiped to cut the sheet in two. It writhed in the wind, severed down the center.
RoW, ch. 15, pg. 218-219

Spoiler

Zahel still had Kaladin's off hand wrapped in the scarf, which he heaved, spinning Kaladin around. Damnation. Kaladin managed to maneuver his Blade and slice the cloth in half - Syl becoming sharp for a moment - then he leaped backward and tried to regain his footing.
...
he had no reason to believe the man could Surgebind...but the way the cloth had gripped Kaladin's arm had been uncanny.
RoW, ch. 15, pg. 219

Spoiler

He changed Syl into small dagger. A twist of the wrist cut the scarf, which unraveled the entire trap, leaving Kalading free to spin and slash with his again-dulled knife.
RoW, ch. 15, pg. 220

So at minimum we can say that anything Invested with 1-10 breaths won't offer meaningful resistance to Shardblade, and it would probably take high-hundreds, low thousands before any effect (even minor) would appear.

Quote

Metalminds obviously can block a shardblade but how long?    Steel would have much more give and a layer of rivited mail made of steel would have even more give than a steel plate to a physical attack.  If it absorbs the physical aspects of weapon blows then we really need to understand the mechanism for shardblades destroying half shards and plate.  

Heavily Invested metalminds can block Shardblade, any metalmind won't do. As we see from Awekening example, you will need quite a bit of Investiture before anything noticable starts happening.
Wax's and Wayne's metalminds would most likely get cut quite easily. BoM would block some blows, but how many?

Quote

My issue is that we see plate leaking stormlight when it is getting cracked and broken no matter if it is hit by a rock or hit by a shardblade. So plate acts more brittle than steel.

Ehm, it takes much more force for a rock to crack a section to any noticable degree. The one time we did see rock crack Shardplate, it was rock size of human head (so several kg's), thrown from a sling by Warform (who are stronger than humans, so the rock is moving up to ~150 km/h), and all it did was puff a little. Compare to Shardblade, where a hit noticeably and considerably cracks a section, which then leaks for a while.

Also, steel would deform and break under the sort of attacks that Shardplate regularly withstands, so while it breaks differently, I would not say it is more brittle then steel.

Quote

I get that half shards and plate act like this but the way they respond to physical attacks is not so different as you pointed out... it just takes more of them.  

It is considerably different in how they respond. You won't break a section of plate (or half-shard) with 2-3 strikes from any ordinary melee weapon, even when wielded by someone with supernatural strength. (up to a point of course).

Quote

Would a layer of locks protect a persons neck from a slice from a shardblade? 

No. As said in the WoB (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/100/#e3353) the Royal Locks just count as living unlike regular hair. So they will get cut just as easily as human.

Quote

Would the straw man be cut in half from the blade?  

Most likely yes (as seen from Kaladin and Vasher duel), unless Invested enough (e.g. hundreds maybe thousands of Breaths).

Quote

If investirure simply gets leeched (again the plate pouring out stormlight hints in my mind that there is no leeching happening)

Not leeched, damaged/destroyed.

Quote

then an awakener with layers of awakened clothing might fare far better than someone behind a halfshard right? Even if each layer required 2 attacks to get through it really wouldn't be much layering before your average awakener has more protection than shardplate.  

As seen in duel in RoW, Awakened cloth offers basically no resistance to Shardblade.

Quote

Metalminds don't leak investiture when broken at all.  If there are 15 hrs of speed stored in an earing and you cut it in half then you have 2 halves of an earing holding 7.5 hrs of stored speed.  The types of investiture are different.  

Metalminds have also never been attacked with Shardblade, so we don't know how they will behave.
But based on WoBs, they will get broken after some hits, and I suspect broken in this context means that the Investiture in them will be destroyed or rendered unusable.

Quote

Is investiture really working that way though?  If stormlight were being separated from the items physical and spiritual why would plate leak no matter what is striking it?  

That is not what I am suggesting.
I think that the spiritual ideal of the item gets damaged, and as a result the object degrades.
In the context of plate, degrades = cracks, and then starts leaking Stormlight through those cracks.
In the context of half-shard, degrades = the fabrial gets damaged.
In the context of metalmind, degrades = ??, but possibly at minimum the structural integrity would lessen? Or the Investiture in the metalmind gets a bit lessened (since Shardblade cuts on all three Realms (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/100/#e3560) it must have ability to destroy Investiture).

Quote

Sadly we haven't really seen any examples of a shardblade hitting something and then that thing being measured for its investiture.  

We don't, but we do have the duel in RoW.

Quote

Personally I feel like it makes sense that invested items would work more like aluminum but then again... a straw man could stop a shardblade according to WoB.  

Straw man would 'block to some extant', and the WoB does not specify how many breaths the straw man would have. And the duel shows that couple of Breaths won't offer any meaningful resistance to Shardblade.

Quote

Maybe awakeners vs shardbearers is a better match than I thought.  

As seen from the duel in RoW, not really. Kaladin did not even use Surges in that fight, but Awakened items were getting destroyed by Shardblade easily.

Quote

As for feruchemists and shardblade blocking... I honestly don't know. The aluminum chainmail is definately a favorite for shardblade sparring though.  

Aluminum has poor properties to make chainmail out of. Pure aluminum (which is the relevant material) is quite soft and weak metal (it has smaller yield strength than plastic, polypropylen), so it would get easily deformed/torn by Shardblade.
Some alloy would be better, but it would have worse defensive properties against the Invested cutting part.

Quote

Another thought that has crossed my mind.  Shardblades don't damage nor destroy other shardblades.  This goes for nightblood and vivennas blade as well. 
Is it the sword shape that prevents them from being damaged and seemingly leeched or something else?  

Good question, I don't know. Though Nightblood did chip Honorblade, so it is not inviolable.
I would wager that to damage Shardblade you have to remove considerable amount of Investiture from it/it's spiritweb, and regular clashes are simply not enough.

Quote

Or do you think enough strikes from shardblades to other shardblades would destroy them too?  We see Nightblood damage an honorblade.  Is it the amount of investiture present?  Because if it is then shardplate, even living, is far far far less invested than an item capable of delivering these investiture severing attacks.  What do you suppose the breakpoint is?  

Nightblood took only 1000 breaths.  You could say he continues to consume more but vivennas blade works similarly to shardblades and doesn't appear to be a constant investiture sucking item.   

As you say, Nightblood now holds faar more Investiture then 1000 breaths (plus Shard was involved in its creation), so he is not good example of anything really.
Vivenna's blade would be better example, but we don't know how exactly it was created, and we have never seen it clash with Shardblade, so it  is possible it would get chipped.

Since Honorblade got only chipped when cut Nightblood, both Shardblades and Honorblades must be ridiculously Invested, or have some other means of staying whole, since Nightblood outright vaporizes everything else.

Additionally, those are not merely Invested items, but more akin to artificial spren (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/100/#e3586), so they would behave differently most likely.

Also, Shardplate is not 'far far far' less Invested then Shardblade, they are comparable. So the reason Plate cracks and Blades don't is probably related to the fact that Plate is formed from multiple spren, and not single spren.

Quote

I think there has to be more to invested metal than what we are seeing and I think sticky investiture is far better vs shardblades than leaky light.  

One, Shardplate is not Invested metal, it is Investiture in metallic form.
Two, its resistance is not due to holding Stormlight.
Three, as seen from RoW duel, sticky Investiture (Breaths being the most sticky we have seen so far) does not really offer meaningful resistance, and there is no reason to believe it would offer better protection.


Based on the examples above, clearly when in WoB we see resistance or blocks to some extant it simply means that cutting the object would not be as effortless as usual, and if Invested enough (i.e. on level of ~half-full metalmind) it will start to actually block Shardblade strikes, but it will break after few (1-2) hits.

Edited April 13, 2023 by therunner

[PinkPlasma she/her]

On 3/31/2023 at 10:28 AM, Quantus said:

A shardblade could work if they are really lucky/accurate, but it would first have to separate the Fullborn from his Gold Metalminds.  That might be asking too much against a Speester with infinite Atium.

Infinite Stormlight doesnt necessarily mean Infinite Scale (or Reach) of Surges, there are still limits to how much their Bond can channel and Spiritweb can support before Savantism damage sets in. "Infinite Stormlight" basically just a Radiant in a storm with lots of gems, or a Herald before Honor broke.  

I was under the impression atium was off limits for vs speculations. cus if not i have absolutely no idea how the radiant could possibly win

[alder24]

24 minutes ago, PinkPlasma said:

I was under the impression atium was off limits for vs speculations. cus if not i have absolutely no idea how the radiant could possibly win

Not here:

On 31.03.2023 at 3:41 PM, MangoBoi101 said:

This is assuming that the fullborn has infinite access to all the 16 metals plus atium and they can mist burn all of them.

[PinkPlasma she/her]

28 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Not here:

oh sorry i missed that ty for explaining

but yea, if the radiant can't hit them it doesn't matter how much power they have, that's kinda the whole point of atium. that, coupled with even just regular speed instead of compounding, would make them untouchable. you'd have to checkmate them reckoners style, wich is really hard to do when the only thing you have that they can't recover from is a shardblade. and every second you don't have them in checkmate, the more they are gonna be hitting you. beating them is going to be near impossible for anyone in those circumstances

[Frustration]

1 hour ago, PinkPlasma said:

I was under the impression atium was off limits for vs speculations. cus if not i have absolutely no idea how the radiant could possibly win

Atium can be completely countered by coating shardplate in a layer of aluminum

[therunner he/him]

6 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Atium can be completely countered by coating shardplate in a layer of aluminum

Yeah,  but then Windrunner cannot use Surges on anything but themselves.

[Frustration]

4 minutes ago, therunner said:

Yeah,  but then Windrunner cannot use Surges on anything but themselves.

You only really want to lash yourself.

Reverse lashings maybe, but you can leave the bottom of your boot free for that and still get the benefits.

[therunner he/him]

1 minute ago, Frustration said:

You only really want to lash yourself.

Reverse lashings maybe, but you can leave the bottom of your boot free for that and still get the benefits.

I don't think so.
Coating surfaces in Full Lashing to prevent Fullborn from moving with F-Steel, or using Reverse Lashings to both pull pushed/pulled items off-course and to drag Fullborn towards them are both quite useful applications.

Not to mention that you can just coat things with Reverse Lashings and throw them around to cause havoc while remaining unaffected.

Leaving bottom of the foot free would leave to be noticed by Fullborn (what with them having F-zinc, F-tin, atium and F-steel).

[Frustration]

1 minute ago, therunner said:

Leaving bottom of the foot free would leave to be noticed by Fullborn (what with them having F-zinc, F-tin, atium and F-steel).

They might be able to see where you stand, or move, but swings, punches, and such would go unnoticed.

2 minutes ago, therunner said:

I don't think so.
Coating surfaces in Full Lashing to prevent Fullborn from moving with F-Steel, or using Reverse Lashings to both pull pushed/pulled items off-course and to drag Fullborn towards them are both quite useful applications.

That's true.

[cometaryorbit]

I don't know if a thin coating of aluminum would necessarily be enough. It works for some things (aluminum-lined hats vs emotional Allomancy) but not others (guns and bullets are actually made from aluminum alloys, despite that being an absolutely terrible choice for bullet performance, so I don't think a thin layer would protect against Pushing/Pulling).

[Frustration]

30 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said:

I don't know if a thin coating of aluminum would necessarily be enough. It works for some things (aluminum-lined hats vs emotional Allomancy) but not others (guns and bullets are actually made from aluminum alloys, despite that being an absolutely terrible choice for bullet performance, so I don't think a thin layer would protect against Pushing/Pulling).

It would, but that's not what it's for, shardplate is already immune to that. It's blocking Atium.

Spoiler

Questioner

Would aluminum give an atium shadow? Like if someone threw an aluminum spear?

Brandon Sanderson

The aluminum would not give an atium shadow. Good question.

Words of Radiance San Francisco signing (March 6, 2014)

 

[alder24]

36 minutes ago, Frustration said:

It would, but that's not what it's for, shardplate is already immune to that. It's blocking Atium.

He can still see the Atium shadow of the Shardblade, and see Electrum shadows of himself with his zinc enhanced mind. He’ll be fine.

And would he be able to lash himself with an aluminum box up? This might mess up his lashings completely, as lashing works by making virtual mass in SR, and you're blocking the direction of lashing and disturbing connection.

Spoiler

MoriWillow

Hello, I hope this message finds you well. I was wondering if you might be able to answer a question. Was going back through the Stormlight books in prep for Rhythm of War, and I realized I didn't actually understand what was happening with the Stormlight when someone used a Basic Lashing. What actually happens to the Stormlight in the creation and maintenance of a Basic Lashing? (Especially when someone is Lashing themselves?)

Brandon Sanderson

Whew. It's complicated. Basically, the magic is persuading the Lashed object that it is not actually bound to the gravity of the planet--but to the gravity of a supermassive object in the direction indicated. (But which doesn't actually exist.) Imagine it as a Lightweaving that creates an illusion, but the illusion is of something massive that only is seen by the Spiritual aspect of the Lashed object/individual.

It works pretty well inside of the cosmere's magical framework, but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense if you approach it from the physics of our realm.

General Reddit 2020 (Aug. 12, 2020)

 

[PinkPlasma she/her]

4 hours ago, Frustration said:

Atium can be completely countered by coating shardplate in a layer of aluminum

but thats not like part of what the fight is yk? its not a radiant with a suit of aluminum that somehow melds to their shardplate pefectly vs a fullborn, its just radiant vs fullborn with the things needed for their abilities. like if the radiant can have a suit of aluminum why can't we give the fullborn one? that'll solve their shardblade problem. 

[PinkPlasma she/her]

1 hour ago, Frustration said:

It would, but that's not what it's for, shardplate is already immune to that. It's blocking Atium.

  Hide contents

Questioner

Would aluminum give an atium shadow? Like if someone threw an aluminum spear?

Brandon Sanderson

The aluminum would not give an atium shadow. Good question.

Words of Radiance San Francisco signing (March 6, 2014)

 

i would also like to point out that just because aluminum doesn't give a shadow, doesn't mean it would block shadows from other things

[Frustration]

2 hours ago, alder24 said:

And would he be able to lash himself with an aluminum box up? This might mess up his lashings completely, as lashing works by making virtual mass in SR, and you're blocking the direction of lashing and disturbing connection.

  Reveal hidden contents

MoriWillow

Hello, I hope this message finds you well. I was wondering if you might be able to answer a question. Was going back through the Stormlight books in prep for Rhythm of War, and I realized I didn't actually understand what was happening with the Stormlight when someone used a Basic Lashing. What actually happens to the Stormlight in the creation and maintenance of a Basic Lashing? (Especially when someone is Lashing themselves?)

Brandon Sanderson

Whew. It's complicated. Basically, the magic is persuading the Lashed object that it is not actually bound to the gravity of the planet--but to the gravity of a supermassive object in the direction indicated. (But which doesn't actually exist.) Imagine it as a Lightweaving that creates an illusion, but the illusion is of something massive that only is seen by the Spiritual aspect of the Lashed object/individual.

It works pretty well inside of the cosmere's magical framework, but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense if you approach it from the physics of our realm.

General Reddit 2020 (Aug. 12, 2020)

 

Soulcasting works in an aluminum box.

2 hours ago, alder24 said:

He can still see the Atium shadow of the Shardblade, and see Electrum shadows of himself with his zinc enhanced mind. He’ll be fine.

That's still less effective than atium was.

1 hour ago, PinkPlasma said:

but thats not like part of what the fight is yk? its not a radiant with a suit of aluminum that somehow melds to their shardplate pefectly vs a fullborn, its just radiant vs fullborn with the things needed for their abilities. like if the radiant can have a suit of aluminum why can't we give the fullborn one? that'll solve their shardblade problem. 

It would be basically aluminum foil that they saudered to the plate. And shardhammers can still break aluminum, so it really does not help the Fullborn, and in fact would be a massive detriment as they wouldn't be able to use steel/iron.

1 hour ago, PinkPlasma said:

i would also like to point out that just because aluminum doesn't give a shadow, doesn't mean it would block shadows from other things

That's like saying that just because you can't see aluminum with steel lines doesn't mean you can't push on things behind it, which you can't.

[Immortal Platypus]

I don't think there is realistically a way for either to win. A-Atium + F-Gold + A-Electrum basically mean Fullborn can't be killed, and infinite stormlight means KR can't be killed. I guess there are probably ways, but I can't think of them.

[alder24]

8 hours ago, Frustration said:

Soulcasting works in an aluminum box.

Yeah, but Soulcasting doesn't create a fake spiritual mass in a distant direction to which an object is connected and attracted. 

8 hours ago, Frustration said:

That's still less effective than atium was.

But still remains untouchable for the Windrunner.

8 hours ago, Frustration said:

It would be basically aluminum foil that they saudered to the plate. And shardhammers can still break aluminum, so it really does not help the Fullborn, and in fact would be a massive detriment as they wouldn't be able to use steel/iron.

So just a foil? No solid suit? Then the Fullborn (fueled by Mists, keep in mind) can just steelpush rock into the Windrunner, shredding his foil to nothingness, making him visible to Atium. And because the Windrunner is in aluminum, he can't reverse lash them away from him.

But if you won't give the Windrunner a solid aluminum armor, then @PinkPlasma is right, why not give an aluminum suit to the Fullborn?

[therunner he/him]

34 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Yeah, but Soulcasting doesn't create a fake spiritual mass in a distant direction to which an object is connected and attracted.

There is no spatial dimension in SR, so there is no 'distant' there.
Based on that Lashing could possibly still work.

[Frustration]

3 hours ago, alder24 said:

So just a foil? No solid suit? Then the Fullborn (fueled by Mists, keep in mind) can just steelpush rock into the Windrunner, shredding his foil to nothingness, making him visible to Atium. And because the Windrunner is in aluminum, he can't reverse lash them away from him.

It's melted into the suit, you would need to sand it off, just hitting it with a rock won't work.

3 hours ago, alder24 said:

And because the Windrunner is in aluminum, he can't reverse lash them away from him.

As stated above you can leave the bottom of the boot without aluminum so you can still reverse lash.

3 hours ago, alder24 said:

But if you won't give the Windrunner a solid aluminum armor, then @PinkPlasma is right, why not give an aluminum suit to the Fullborn?

You're welcome to it, but it makes them significantly worse as they can't push or pull on anything, it would probably mess with A-electrum too, and probably several other things I'm not thinking of.