How did the Set Manage to get so Many Gold Ferrings?

[Trusk'our he/him]

I counted at least six Hemalurgic spikes that allowed for gold Feruchemy that were in the possession of the Set (Mr. Suit, Lady Kelesina, Telsin, the Cycle in TLM, Gave Entrone, and Gertruda). I know that they had quite a few resources at their disposal, but I was under the impression that Ferrings were rare, especially considering that if you wanted to get a specific type of Ferring for Hemalurgy, you have only 1/16th of the original number of Feruchemists to choose from.

Not only that, but Mr. Suit mentions that the Set found a way to let someone else fuel their Hemalurgist's Feruchemy, probably via Identity blanking, which would suggest that they had even more Hemalurgic spikes providing health.

How did they get so many Hemalurgic spikes providing gold Feruchemy?

[Frustration he/him]

I don't think Kelesina was confirmed to have a spike.

And they had over a decade to find their desired abilities, I'll admit it's stretching plausibility, but it could happen.

[alder24]

Some of them might get reused after death, like Kelesina if she had one. But yeah, that's a lot of gold spikes. Maybe they did use Miles as a spike farm like people were asking Brandon in WoBs?

[Trusk'our he/him]

17 hours ago, Frustration said:

I don't think Kelesina was confirmed to have a spike.

But why would she have such a full Unkeyed Goldmind if she couldn't use it?

17 hours ago, Frustration said:

And they had over a decade to find their desired abilities, I'll admit it's stretching plausibility, but it could happen.

I suppose that makes sense.

17 hours ago, alder24 said:

Maybe they did use Miles as a spike farm like people were asking Brandon in WoBs?

Hmmm. That could also explain it.

[Frustration he/him]

34 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

But why would she have such a full Unkeyed Goldmind if she couldn't use it?

They got several medallions from the ship that crashed

[Trusk'our he/him]

48 minutes ago, Frustration said:

They got several medallions from the ship that crashed

But those are Unsealed Metalminds, not Unkeyed ones.

I thought that the Set had made those by experimenting with Hemalurgically granted Feruchemical aluminum? It would be weird for Mr. Suit to mention that they could "make others weak" while he and his peers get to be strong, which sounds a whole lot like they know how to produce Unkeyed Metalminds.

Edited February 14, 2023 by Trusk'our

[IlstrawberrySeed]

On 2/14/2023 at 6:49 AM, Trusk'our said:

But why would she have such a full Unkeyed Goldmind if she couldn't use it?

She could have been a bloodmaker, in which case she wouldn't have needed a spike, and, in fact, may have provided a spike. Anyone want to check that? Was she killed with one of the H-F metals? (don't have the book)

[Trusk'our he/him]

1 hour ago, IlstrawberrySeed said:

She could have been a bloodmaker, in which case she wouldn't have needed a spike, and, in fact, may have provided a spike. Anyone want to check that? Was she killed with one of the H-F metals? (don't have the book)

I can't find any info on whether she was a natural Metalborn in the Coppermind Wiki or the Arcanum.

However, if she did have an innate power, it wasn't stolen via Hemalurgy; she was killed with a bullet to the head by her Feruchemist maid.

[trytoguess]

I guess in theory if the Set had enough unsealed metalminds with health they could take the ability from a gold ferring and have that person undo the damage with the unsealed metalmind. It's an expensive method, but it would draw less attention than killing a bunch of people.

[IlstrawberrySeed]

10 hours ago, trytoguess said:

I guess in theory if the Set had enough unsealed metalminds with health they could take the ability from a gold ferring and have that person undo the damage with the unsealed metalmind. It's an expensive method, but it would draw less attention than killing a bunch of people.

More likely miles because he wouldn't need the unsealed metalmind - One can compound a metalmind that one could tap if a fuerochemist. Since he's a compounder, it wouldn't even require an unkeyed metalmind, though finding Augers with the fuerochemical abilities they need, and can recruit them, then a H-F-A could get them farming those.

[lacrossedeamon]

49 minutes ago, IlstrawberrySeed said:

More likely miles because he wouldn't need the unsealed metalmind - One can compound a metalmind that one could tap if a fuerochemist. Since he's a compounder, it wouldn't even require an unkeyed metalmind, though finding Augers with the fuerochemical abilities they need, and can recruit them, then a H-F-A could get them farming those.

Compounding granted by hemalurgy is currently not viable

[+robardin he/him]

1 minute ago, lacrossedeamon said:

Compounding granted by hemalurgy is currently not viable

Yeah, I found that tidbit from TLM rather interesting.

There was nothing to prevent it pre-Catacendre, and it still works for Marsh to Compound atium or he'd be dead by now, but as of TLM, the mechanics of hemalurgy have shifted such that Feruchallomantically Compounding is now "feature locked" for a spiked person, but having more than three spikes no longer subjects one to direct control by the God of Hemalurgy.

Meanwhile, in Shadows of Self, Harmony was able to "control" Paalm with a second spike (especially one fashioned from a Inquisitor's spike dating back to the Final Empire).

This probably has something to do with the ongoing admixing of Ruin in Harmony's balance of Shardic power. Even Harmony Himself professed not to understand the mechanics.

[cometaryorbit]

3 hours ago, robardin said:

but having more than three spikes no longer subjects one to direct control by the God of Hemalurgy.

I think it still does, at least the Set thought they were limited to 3 spikes for this reason in BoM. (Though trellium spikes may not count in that number.) But now you simply can't gain powers from more than 4 spikes.

[IlstrawberrySeed]

5 hours ago, lacrossedeamon said:

Compounding granted by hemalurgy is currently not viable

Compounding by hemalurgy is not viable due to identity interference, same way Vin couldn't compound. But if Sazed had filled aluminum to make an unkeyed metalmind, she could have burned it for the fuerochemical boost.

However, my comment wasn't clear, and the spike is only needed to make unkeyed metalminds, not provide the actual compounding. I'm actually surprised at how weak the Set was, since they had unkeyed metalminds, they could have gone with the allomantic side of the metals they wanted Fuerochemically.

[Trusk'our he/him]

On 2/16/2023 at 7:20 PM, IlstrawberrySeed said:

 I'm actually surprised at how weak the Set was, since they had unkeyed metalminds, they could have gone with the allomantic side of the metals they wanted Fuerochemically.

They wouldn't have been able to control the rate at which they got the enhanced attributes though. At least, not any better than what can normally be achieved with Allomancy.

But yeah, if they had considered doing that, they would have been much more dangerous.