Twinborn VS 4th Ideal Radiant

[NameIess]

8 minutes ago, Frustration said:

He also has stored for decades.

Given that most fourth ideal Radiants have decades of experience, I think it’s fair to give at least years to store for compounders. Not that they’d need it. Miles had infinite health, to the point that shooting him would only waste ammo. A bullet takes Wayne like a week or two, and not once does Wax even consider shooting Miles a few hundred times to be a viable strategy.

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It says that they can go to the CR, but they can't get back on their own.

Really? Because l could swear that Jasnah told Shallan the opposite.

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You can soulcast shardplate

And it says soulcasters are used to dealing with resistance.

I’m used to carrying supporting weight with my legs. Doesn’t mean I can lift 2 tons on my own.

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Just as the best fighters, which boosted strength would help

They already have the most combat-oriented powers that doesn’t turn them into scouts, air support, combat medics, or heavy artillery and a patron Herald who’s the most skilled and determined fighter among the heralds. I don’t think they need super strength.

[Frustration]

1 hour ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

Given that most fourth ideal Radiants have decades of experience, I think it’s fair to give at least years to store for compounders. Not that they’d need it. Miles had infinite health, to the point that shooting him would only waste ammo. A bullet takes Wayne like a week or two, and not once does Wax even consider shooting Miles a few hundred times to be a viable strategy.

Etrone also completely ignored bullets, but he didn't have compounding.

1 hour ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

I’m used to carrying supporting weight with my legs. Doesn’t mean I can lift 2 tons on my own.

But they are confirmed to be able to soulcast something far more invested that the metalminds would be.

1 hour ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

They already have the most combat-oriented powers that doesn’t turn them into scouts, air support, combat medics, or heavy artillery and a patron Herald who’s the most skilled and determined fighter among the heralds. I don’t think they need super strength.

I would argue pretty much the opposite. Without strength they have some of the least offensively potent powers, shardblades render Tension basically useless unless it also boosts strength.

[Tglassy]

First, a Steel compounder could actually get to a Radiant who is flying, cause Steel Compounders are also Coinshots.  

However, it occurs to me that Wax would actually have a pretty good chance against a Radiant, if he knew about how metalminds can block shardblades.  If he wore Iron armor, stored enough weight in each piece to block shardblades, then all he'd have to do is steelpush himself at the radiant and shoulder check them when his weight was magnified 100x.  

I mean, Kaladin basically did that in WoR, and he only lashed himself a few times, cracking the plate when he hit.  Wax, or any one with F-Iron, would be able to do something much more intense.  

Depending on how much weight they have saved up, they may only be able to do it once, but it would be like hitting the Radiant with a wrecking ball weighting thousands of pounds.  Surely that would do SOMETHING.  

[Werewolff Studios he/him]

One other aspect to consider about the Steel Compounders too. If they're accelerating at 9.81m/s, could they theoretically jump off of thrown objects, since they're moving on and off of them faster than gravity can pull them downwards? If so, that might be another way to catch up to a flying Radiant - making a staircase in the air out of rocks or coins that you place as you move.

The thought is a little ridiculous, I'll admit, but maybe worth considering?

[Tglassy]

15 minutes ago, Werewolff Studios said:

One other aspect to consider about the Steel Compounders too. If they're accelerating at 9.81m/s, could they theoretically jump off of thrown objects, since they're moving on and off of them faster than gravity can pull them downwards? If so, that might be another way to catch up to a flying Radiant - making a staircase in the air out of rocks or coins that you place as you move.

The thought is a little ridiculous, I'll admit, but maybe worth considering?

The Flash for the Win.  Seriously, if you have near infinite speed, you really can't lose.  I always hated how movies, shows and comics make it seem like the Flash wouldn't just wipe the floor with every single enemy he ever faced.  

[Werewolff Studios he/him]

Just now, Tglassy said:

The Flash for the Win.  Seriously, if you have near infinite speed, you really can't lose.  I always hated how movies, shows and comics make it seem like the Flash wouldn't just wipe the floor with every single enemy he ever faced.  

Oh absolutely. He was my Physics teacher's favourite superhero, as he had access to so many superpowers just through his use of super speed alone. Intangibility, Invisibility, Flight, Super Strength (Infinite Mass Punch style), Super Healing, Pre-Cognition, Memory Retention, Infinite Stamina (when fueled by the Speed Force), Teleportation and Time Travel. 

Super speed is a busted ability once you start getting into the upper echelons of power. I'm glad that Brandon introduced things like Feruchemical compression to prevent his Steelrunners and Fullborn from becoming absolutely broken.

[Frustration]

1 hour ago, Tglassy said:

First, a Steel compounder could actually get to a Radiant who is flying, cause Steel Compounders are also Coinshots.  

However, it occurs to me that Wax would actually have a pretty good chance against a Radiant, if he knew about how metalminds can block shardblades.  If he wore Iron armor, stored enough weight in each piece to block shardblades, then all he'd have to do is steelpush himself at the radiant and shoulder check them when his weight was magnified 100x.  

I mean, Kaladin basically did that in WoR, and he only lashed himself a few times, cracking the plate when he hit.  Wax, or any one with F-Iron, would be able to do something much more intense.  

Depending on how much weight they have saved up, they may only be able to do it once, but it would be like hitting the Radiant with a wrecking ball weighting thousands of pounds.  Surely that would do SOMETHING.  

That burned through all of Kaladin's stormlight, and broke his legs, all to merely crack the plate.

35 minutes ago, Werewolff Studios said:

One other aspect to consider about the Steel Compounders too. If they're accelerating at 9.81m/s, could they theoretically jump off of thrown objects, since they're moving on and off of them faster than gravity can pull them downwards? If so, that might be another way to catch up to a flying Radiant - making a staircase in the air out of rocks or coins that you place as you move.

The thought is a little ridiculous, I'll admit, but maybe worth considering?

No, because the coins would just be shot out without imparting any force to the compounder.

[Werewolff Studios he/him]

13 minutes ago, Frustration said:

No, because the coins would just be shot out without imparting any force to the compounder.

When you say shot out, do you mean they'd fall away from under the Compounder's foot? If that's the case, could they not make it work with heavier objects then? 

[Frustration]

15 minutes ago, Werewolff Studios said:

When you say shot out, do you mean they'd fall away from under the Compounder's foot? If that's the case, could they not make it work with heavier objects then? 

The objects would have to be either heavier than they are or anchored in place.

[NameIess]

3 hours ago, Frustration said:

Etrone also completely ignored bullets, but he didn't have compounding.

He likely had unsealed metalminds, like Wayne did. Shooting him would’ve worked eventually.

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But they are confirmed to be able to soulcast something far more invested that the metalminds would be.

A hundred people working together could lift 2 tons quite easily. Likewise, a group of Elsecallers in a perpendicularity could soulcasting Plate. Probably.

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I would argue pretty much the opposite. Without strength they have some of the least offensively potent powers, shardblades render Tension basically useless unless it also boosts strength.

Liquefying the ground beneath you opponent’s feet isn’t offensively potent? Unless they have soulcasting, gravitation, whatever it is that the fused who slip through stone have, or possibly division, they’re dead. Radiants have never really had to fight people with Blades before, at least not large-scale, and even then a Stoneward’s powers aren’t useless. They’re perfect for a soldier on the front lines, making is easy to disrupt enemy lines. And they can make fortifications too. Add in the Stoneward’s oaths about being there when needed, and they’re spending more time on the front lines than any other order, meaning they’ll be in general the best soldiers.  No need for super strength.

[Werewolff Studios he/him]

30 minutes ago, Frustration said:

The objects would have to be either heavier than they are or anchored in place.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but if you were accelerating faster than gravity, wouldn't it be similar to being in a zero-g environment? You'll exert force on the object in the air, but it will also impart some force back into you, like an astronaut flinging a spanner away in space to generate a force back into them. I suppose it would be more about the force the Steel runner is kicking with through their legs then the force the stepping surface would be imparting onto them.

Alternatively, they could get a mad run up and leap off of a large rock or building or something. They'd better hope they grab the Radiant though, unless they want to end up splatting into the ground...

[Frustration]

28 minutes ago, Werewolff Studios said:

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but if you were accelerating faster than gravity, wouldn't it be similar to being in a zero-g environment? You'll exert force on the object in the air, but it will also impart some force back into you, like an astronaut flinging a spanner away in space to generate a force back into them. I suppose it would be more about the force the Steel runner is kicking with through their legs then the force the stepping surface would be imparting onto them.

Alternatively, they could get a mad run up and leap off of a large rock or building or something. They'd better hope they grab the Radiant though, unless they want to end up splatting into the ground...

Even when in the air Mistborn still needed to wait for their coins to hit the ground before they could push themselves with them.

37 minutes ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

He likely had unsealed metalminds, like Wayne did. Shooting him would’ve worked eventually.

Shooting Miles would've worked eventually.

37 minutes ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

A hundred people working together could lift 2 tons quite easily. Likewise, a group of Elsecallers in a perpendicularity could soulcasting Plate. Probably.

He said that you can soulcast filled metalminds and Shardplate. Even if you want to argue that shardplate would be too hard for a single individual, metalminds would not be.

38 minutes ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

Liquefying the ground beneath you opponent’s feet isn’t offensively potent?

Compared to turning them to stone, or burning them to dust, or closing the distance between you in the blink of an eye? Not really, and other orders could do that and more.

40 minutes ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

Radiants have never really had to fight people with Blades before, at least not large-scale, and even then a Stoneward’s powers aren’t useless.

Why would you make a sword out of a shirt when you have one that cuts through anything already?

41 minutes ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

No need for super strength.

Without it they're just a worse version of the Willshapers.

41 minutes ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

Add in the Stoneward’s oaths about being there when needed, and they’re spending more time on the front lines than any other order, meaning they’ll be in general the best soldiers.

Windrunner oaths are about protecting, and they have the fastest response times to emergency situations, so I highly doubt that Stonewards spent the most time on the front lines.

What proof do you have that Stonewards cannot use Tension to increase their strength?

[Werewolff Studios he/him]

14 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Even when in the air Mistborn still needed to wait for their coins to hit the ground before they could push themselves with them.

That's due to them opposing gravity. I'm not referring to the Steel Compounder shooting coins Allomantically, I'm referring to them physically stepping on an item they are flinging into the air. Again, the thought isn't meant to be super serious - just a bit of comic logic that may be worth thinking about

28 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Shooting Miles would've worked eventually.

I mean, eventually, in Miles' case, is on a much different timescale than a Bloodmaker with unkeyed goldminds. The sheer amount of bullets or wounds you'd have to impact would be out of the field of possibility for pretty much anyone short term. You'd likely need to be bombard him with constant fire for hours, if not days, to drain every inch of healing that he had stored up. Plus there's his savantism on top of that. 

36 minutes ago, Frustration said:

What proof do you have that Stonewards cannot use Tension to increase their strength?

There is this WOB regarding their ability of Cohesion, stating that they can't make it work on living flesh. It's not unreasonable to think that Tension would be similar, as both these Surges deal with Axial Interconnection.

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Questioner

So far there hasn't been a lot of the Stonewards in the books. Are they going to come forward in the next few?

Brandon Sanderson

...Yes. One of the reasons I built the structure of The Stormlight Archive the way that I did is because I knew it would be easy to overwhelm with the number of magical abilities, and to let myself get distracted by some of them and not do them justice. So I've been very careful, perhaps more careful than I need to be, and when I show like a Fused using a power, I focus more on the ones you know about and things like this, intentionally to keep the reader's attention on what they know as I expand. 

Questioner

Can they shape stone? In one of the flashbacks they kind of melt it and it becomes sand.

Brandon Sanderson

Basically, my original pitch to myself on Stonewards, one of their main powers--I mean, everybody has two--but this power you're talking about was the ability to grab matter and just kind of-- like what if the whole world were clay to you. Not just stone, not just rock, but if you could just pick something up and stretch it, whatever it was, that was my original pitch for that order.

Questioner

So architects or combat engineers fill that order?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, stuff like that, but also, just kind of like you need to get out of a room? Well, let's mash ourselves a doorway here and step through, or just all kinds of stuff. 

Questioner 2

Can they do that to living flesh?

Brandon Sanderson

No. That's the general, the more Invested something is the more it resists, and Stoneward powers are highly resisted by things... Even a small amount of extra Investiture is gonna prevent them. Like if you stuck Stormlight in [an object], say a Windrunner did, a Stoneward wouldn't be able to change that.

Orem signing (March 10, 2018)

 

[Werewolff Studios he/him]

54 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Windrunner oaths are about protecting, and they have the fastest response times to emergency situations, so I highly doubt that Stonewards spent the most time on the front lines.

Relevant WOB

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Questioner

Is there anything about the Stonewards that you can share that's not a RAFO? I know they're coming later.

Brandon Sanderson

They are coming later, so not really. They were more of the Knights Radiant front line troops, as opposed to the Windrunners who were scouts. But you probably already knew that.

Skyward Atlanta signing (Nov. 17, 2018)

 

[NameIess]

43 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Shooting Miles would've worked eventually.

But it was never a viable plan.

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He said that you can soulcast filled metalminds and Shardplate. Even if you want to argue that shardplate would be too hard for a single individual, metalminds would not be.

Filled does not mean full.

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Compared to turning them to stone, or burning them to dust, or closing the distance between you in the blink of an eye? Not really, and other orders could do that and more.

Soulcasting people isn’t viable large-scale, division makes you more useful as heavy artillery than front line fighter, and Elsecallers are healers and highly mobile special forces.

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Why would you make a sword out of a shirt when you have one that cuts through anything already?

Why bother when you can make your opponent’s clothing as hard as steel? Or instantly make favorable terrain for your squad? Or make you opponent’s weapon melt on contact with your skin?

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Without it they're just a worse version of the Willshapers.

I doubt Willshapers have the control that Stonewards will.

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Windrunner oaths are about protecting, and they have the fastest response times to emergency situations, so I highly doubt that Stonewards spent the most time on the front lines

Windrunners may fight more skirmishes, but Stonewards will fight on the frontlines of battles day in and day out. While the Windrunners are sparring with Heavenly Ones and scouting, Stonewards are in the thick of things.

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What proof do you have that Stonewards cannot use Tension to increase their strength?

I don’t need proof, just evidence. Your evidence for Tension granting enhanced strength in Stonewards is that one scene with Dalinar. My evidence against it is the no existence of claims of super human strength among the Radiants, and it never being mentioned as a potential power. I’ll admit that it’s possible, but I don’t think we have enough evidence to conclusively say one way or the other. 
 

Regardless, that doesn’t matter. Stonewards could already sink the Twinborn into the ground and suffocate them, so even if strength would work using it is unnecessary.

[Frustration]

22 minutes ago, Werewolff Studios said:

That's due to them opposing gravity. I'm not referring to the Steel Compounder shooting coins Allomantically, I'm referring to them physically stepping on an item they are flinging into the air. Again, the thought isn't meant to be super serious - just a bit of comic logic that may be worth thinking about

So you want them to outrun gravity?

22 minutes ago, Werewolff Studios said:

I mean, eventually, in Miles' case, is on a much different timescale than a Bloodmaker with unkeyed goldminds. The sheer amount of bullets or wounds you'd have to impact would be out of the field of possibility for pretty much anyone short term. You'd likely need to be bombard him with constant fire for hours, if not days, to drain every inch of healing that he had stored up. Plus there's his savantism on top of that. 

Not really, lodge enough rounds in his skull and his brain won't have the room to heal right, the Gatling guns they use would be more than enough.

22 minutes ago, Werewolff Studios said:

There is this WOB regarding their ability of Cohesion, stating that they can't make it work on living flesh. It's not unreasonable to think that Tension would be similar, as both these Surges deal with Axial Interconnection.

 

Dalinar could not have lifted the rocks over the temple of Taln without surges

Spoiler

TheDanfromSpace

Could Dalinar lift stones of equivalent weight to the statue [in Thaylen City]? Assuming enough Stormlight. Or was that extra strength part of his Surges?

Brandon Sanderson

You are correct--Dalinar could not lift stones of equivalent weight in other circumstances.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/406/#e13635

And since Adhesion does not grant that power it must be a result of Tension.

@UnfortunatelyNamed

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Filled does not mean full.

With the size of the metalminds needed I doubt even a compounder could make enough attribute without compounding non-stop for decades.

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Why bother when you can make your opponent’s clothing as hard as steel? Or instantly make favorable terrain for your squad? Or make you opponent’s weapon melt on contact with your skin?

Only one of those uses Tension, and if you are close enough to lock up your opponents clothes you are close enough for blade range.

Edited December 30, 2022 by Frustration

[Werewolff Studios he/him]

18 minutes ago, Frustration said:

So you want them to outrun gravity?

Not so much that I want them to, I'm wondering whether it's possible. The acceleration due to gravity is 9.81ms2. If you were accelerating faster than that you'd be able to run up walls and buildings etc. If you were accelerating much faster than that, could you run off of objects suspended in the air that are yet to fall? That's my question. 

21 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Not really, lodge enough rounds in his skull and his brain won't have the room to heal right, the Gatling guns they use would be more than enough.

Gatling rounds would more likely tear through you, not lodge in you. Plus, with how strong Miles' healing ability is (and how strong his Cognitive and Spiritual versions are), it's more likely his body would force the bullets out - rejecting them as part of his ideal self (similar to how Kaladin initially rejected the tattoo ink from Bridge 4, just at a larger scale). 

24 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Dalinar could not have lifted the rocks over the temple of Taln without surges

  Reveal hidden contents

TheDanfromSpace

Could Dalinar lift stones of equivalent weight to the statue [in Thaylen City]? Assuming enough Stormlight. Or was that extra strength part of his Surges?

Brandon Sanderson

You are correct--Dalinar could not lift stones of equivalent weight in other circumstances.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/406/#e13635

And since Adhesion does not grant that power it must be a result of Tension.

That's a valid point, but I think @UnfortunatelyNamed also has a point in saying that the scene utilizes Dalinar, who's Bondsmith surges work differently to a Stonewards, and who we haven't seen display similar strength since. I'd honestly have to re-read the scene.

I feel the super strength argument is a bit redundant though, since the original question is putting Twinborn against 4th Oath Radiants, who's Shardplate grants enhanced strength to all of them, regardless of Order. 

[Frustration]

57 minutes ago, Werewolff Studios said:

Not so much that I want them to, I'm wondering whether it's possible. The acceleration due to gravity is 9.81ms2. If you were accelerating faster than that you'd be able to run up walls and buildings etc. If you were accelerating much faster than that, could you run off of objects suspended in the air that are yet to fall? That's my question. 

I'm certain someone has run the numbers on that at some point. You wouldn't be able to run up walls though, running pushes you away from an object, so you would only do a wall flip.

59 minutes ago, Werewolff Studios said:

Gatling rounds would more likely tear through you, not lodge in you. Plus, with how strong Miles' healing ability is (and how strong his Cognitive and Spiritual versions are), it's more likely his body would force the bullets out - rejecting them as part of his ideal self (similar to how Kaladin initially rejected the tattoo ink from Bridge 4, just at a larger scale).

The rings lodged in Sazed, and the arrow in Shallan.

1 hour ago, Werewolff Studios said:

That's a valid point, but I think @UnfortunatelyNamed also has a point in saying that the scene utilizes Dalinar, who's Bondsmith surges work differently to a Stonewards, and who we haven't seen display similar strength since. I'd honestly have to re-read the scene.

They can make full lashings so you I don't think that them being different orders would prevent Stonewards from having strength.

[alder24]

I see three problems with Twinborn vs 4th Ideal Radiant

1. geting to the Radient without being hit by the blade
2. cracking through the plate
3. draining them out of Stormlight so they can't heal anymore

If there is a Twinborn that can resolved all 3 problems and remain alive, he wins. Is there any Twinborn capable of doing that?

Pewter compounder can dodge a Shardplade and is strong enough to eventually crack through a Shardplade. However he only needs to be hit once to be kiled and he is only a bit faster with pewter, not fast enough to constantly avoid Shardblade. They would eventually be hit and die.

Gold compounder can withstand any hit by a Shardblade and heal almost instantly, he is invulnerable, but there is almost no way for him to effectively get through a Shardplate and then drain Radiant out of Stormlight.

Chromium compounder with infinite fortune maybe could get pass a Shardblade and then drain a Shardplate or a Radinat, but that would be, well, very lucky.

Duralumin compounder could befriended Radiant and instead of fighting, they could became best friends 4ever, and both would win that way.

Nicrosil compounder could compound enough investiture untill it would collapse on itself and create black hole, killing them both. But he would need a lot of Nicrosil for it. But realistically, can he compound so much investiture that he would ascend at least to the levels of Well of Ascention? Tbf we don't know much about nicrosil compounding.

And Steel compounder, who in my opinion can repeatably win against Radiant. With almost infinite speed, he can run as fast as air resistance allows him, moving faster than Radiant can even react, pick up a hammer, or a rock, and hit Radiant with it until Plate breaks as it won't be able to heal fast enough. Then repeat the same with Radiant's body, turning it into bloody goo, until he killes him or Radinat runs out of Stromlight. Steel compounder needs to get full advantage of kinetic energy E=(mv^2)/2.

 

But that is all without looking at any surges. Only steel compounder would be able to move faster than Radiant would be able to use any surges. Steel compounder is the only Twinborn that would win a fight against 4th ideal Radiant.

 

9 hours ago, Werewolff Studios said:

The acceleration due to gravity is 9.81ms2. If you were accelerating faster than that you'd be able to run up walls and buildings etc. If you were accelerating much faster than that, could you run off of objects suspended in the air that are yet to fall? That's my question. 

You would need to point that acceleration against the gravity vector, so upwards, but there is nothing to be pushed perfectly up on a straight wall.
And you can't really run/jump of the objects suspended/falling in the air - if they're small. It is kind of weightless environment like in ISS, so if the object is large enough, you can push from it, but small, you can push it away from you, as the force acting on you is very small. 

[therunner he/him]

5 hours ago, alder24 said:

Pewter compounder can dodge a Shardplade and is strong enough to eventually crack through a Shardplade. However he only needs to be hit once to be kiled and he is only a bit faster with pewter, not fast enough to constantly avoid Shardblade. They would eventually be hit and die.

How can pewter compounder dodge Shardblade? While they are a bit faster, both Stormlight and Shardplate improves reflexes and speed, so there is not much reason to believe that.
Additionally, added muscle mass from F-pewter would make them less agile.

5 hours ago, alder24 said:

Gold compounder can withstand any hit by a Shardblade and heal almost instantly, he is invulnerable, but there is almost no way for him to effectively get through a Shardplate and then drain Radiant out of Stormlight.

Technically yes, however if the severed limb is the one that contains metalminds they would not be able to access those, as that limb is no longer connected to their Spiritweb.
So a strike through spine could possibly be deadly even to them, unless they had sufficiently large goldminds in/on head.

5 hours ago, alder24 said:

Duralumin compounder could befriended Radiant and instead of fighting, they could became best friends 4ever, and both would win that way.

5 hours ago, alder24 said:

Nicrosil compounder could compound enough investiture untill it would collapse on itself and create black hole, killing them both. But he would need a lot of Nicrosil for it. But realistically, can he compound so much investiture that he would ascend at least to the levels of Well of Ascention? Tbf we don't know much about nicrosil compounding.

As far as we know nicrosil stores ability to use Invested Arts, i.e. Nicrosil compounder could store their ability to use A-nicrosil and maybe make it stronger?
But A-nicrosil would not really help them, so as far as we know this form of Compounder could not really do much in plain combat.

[StanLemon]

I'm generally someone who doesn't think Radiants are the unstoppable combat machines that others on the forum think they are, but I don't really see how any Twinborn combo can win in a straight fight. The only maybe way I can think of is for a Steel Compounder to zip up, steal all of the Radiant's spheres, do a ton of damage to the Radiant that hopefully they don't have a enough Stormlight to heal it all and run and hide the spheres before stopping tapping speed. And all that is only if the Radiant hasn't already summoned their Plate

[alder24]

4 minutes ago, therunner said:

How can pewter compounder dodge Shardblade? While they are a bit faster, both Stormlight and Shardplate improves reflexes and speed, so there is not much reason to believe that.
Additionally, added muscle mass from F-pewter would make them less agile.

Time and time in Mistborn era 1 we were told of how slow Vin moves without pewter. So at least pewter compounder could be as fast as Radiant, allowing him to dodge the blade - not all the time, but he can do it. He can use F-Pewter just in the very second he strikes, not all the time. Still, no chance of defeating Radiant with plate.

6 minutes ago, therunner said:

Technically yes, however if the severed limb is the one that contains metalminds they would not be able to access those, as that limb is no longer connected to their Spiritweb.
So a strike through spine could possibly be deadly even to them, unless they had sufficiently large goldminds in/on head.

Golden teeth! 

11 minutes ago, therunner said:

As far as we know nicrosil stores ability to use Invested Arts, i.e. Nicrosil compounder could store their ability to use A-nicrosil and maybe make it stronger?
But A-nicrosil would not really help them, so as far as we know this form of Compounder could not really do much in plain combat.

It makes me sad. No black holes then  Can I assume that nicrosil compounder has prepered for fight and has abilities to use Fullborn powers, unchained Bondsmith powers, Divine Breath and Elantrian powers stored in his metalmind and would use it in this duel? jk   What compounding unchained Bondsmith powers would even do?

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

No getting past certain surges.  But I would say A-pewter and F-steel with a heavy weapon would stand a decent chance at getting through plate and damaging the radiant.  

Can living plate be dismissed once it is broken or will it lock up with a radiant inside.  

Pewter gives the strength and dexterity to dish disgusting damage and speed gives the ability to dance around the radiant.  Plus momentum and kinetic energy are all calculated based on speed and mass.  A pewter burner already can move more mass faster.  Give it the speed of steel and your potential for energy being generated from something like a shardhammer or even a normal sledge could reach completely bonkers numbers.  

Surges would put the radiant up top but I think pewter steel twinborn would be able to dance circles around a shardweilding radiant and at least lock up the plate.  Once the radiant is trapped or all of their stormlight is drained keeping the plate alive it should be a simple whack a mole against their pretty little head.  

You wouldn't need to tap a ton of steel either.  The pewter already does so much.  The steel would literally just be to keep the radiant swinging at nothing.  

Again surges make the difference. 

[bmcclure7]

On 12/28/2022 at 2:32 PM, Tglassy said:

We've had Mistborn vs 3rd ideal, we have Kelsior vs Kaladin.  I feel like Twinborn are different enough to warrant their own thing.  

Are there any Twinborn who would pose a challenge to a Radiant of the 4th ideal?  If so, which ones?  Compounding allowed.  

The ones that come off the top of my head are Pewter/Gold, Pewter/Steel, and Compounding either Pewter or Steel.

Also, a Chromium Compounder, since they'd Compound Fortune and also be a Leecher.  

Any others who could do the trick?  Or would these even be able to do the trick?  Y'all know my thoughts of Pewter Compounding.  I feel like a Steel Compounder would probably have the best shot.  Near infinite speed.  You don't need great strength.  Just rush at the Radiant with a tire iron in your hand outstretched beside you, then let go just before it hits.  It'll hit with the force of a freight train (you let go so the recoil doesn't rip your arm off).  And Steel Compounders are also Coinshots.  But would that be enough to get through Living Plate?  

Your thoughts?

It would be better to do this against a 3d ideal regardless a pweter or steal compounder is probably the way to go, Gold if the twinborn can carry explosives.

I still think they would need the element of surprise to take on a 4 ideal.

[Tglassy]

2 hours ago, therunner said:

Additionally, added muscle mass from F-pewter would make them less agile.

So, this will be the fourth time I've mentioned this in the last few weeks, with no one commenting.  Almost makes me feel like I'm talking to a wall.

Brandon confirmed, I believe, that if a Pewter Compounder were to store his extra strength granted by burner A-Pewter in a Pewtermind, then the extra strength pulled out of it would not also increase your muscle mass, because you are storing the Allomantic strength, not phsyical strength.  

So you just compound THAT strength, instead of physical strength from your muscle mass.  Then you have a near infinite supply of strength without the added muscle mass.