Twinborn VS 4th Ideal Radiant

[Tglassy]

1 minute ago, Frustration said:

Because there is no difference between duralumin burning allomantic metals and tapping large amounts of feruchemical trait. Other than feruchemy losing some overall power.

How did I know you would make that comment?

Allomancy draws a large amount of power from tiny shavings of metal. You only need to burn a few small beads for several hours of power.

...Hence...Compounding?  Hence...getting more out than you put in?  

1 minute ago, Frustration said:

That is directly proportional to the amount of metal burned.

I'm sorry, but where is the disconnect here?  Because it sounds like you're saying that yes, you get more power out of compounding than you put in, while saying no, you don't get more power out of compounding that you put in.  I'm very confused.  

 

[Frustration]

3 minutes ago, Tglassy said:

...Hence...Compounding?  Hence...getting more out than you put in?  

I'm sorry, but where is the disconnect here?  Because it sounds like you're saying that yes, you get more power out of compounding than you put in, while saying no, you don't get more power out of compounding that you put in.  I'm very confused.  

 

You get the same amount of power out as you would if you just burned regular metal, plus the amount you stored in the metal. And so, you get more power than you put in, but an amount determined solely by the amount of charged metal, regardless of how invested it is.

[Tglassy]

13 minutes ago, Frustration said:

You get the same amount of power out as you would if you just burned regular metal, plus the amount you stored in the metal. And so, you get more power than you put in, but an amount determined solely by the amount of charged metal, regardless of how invested it is.

Ok.  I don't care about the maths involved.  I don't care about IU's or any crap like that.  What I care about is that you get more than you put in to it.  So you spend ten minutes charging a metalmind and get more than 10 minutes worth of the power when you burn it.  I don't care how much more.  Even if it's 10% more, it's still compounding, and once done enough is near limitless.  All you need is a large enough metalmind to store what you are burning and you can have what is effectively an infinite supply, given enough metal.  

Edit:

22 minutes ago, Frustration said:

He mentioned plate, but I doubt it was shardplate, as that can't exist in the CR, at least as far as they know. It would be highly effective against steel plate though.

Also, regular people can crack shardplate with enough hits.  It happens.  It's how anyone earns their shards.  The parshendi cracked many pieces of plate.  Yeah, sure, counless more died, but that's not the point.  The point is that heavy weapons can and did crack shardplate.  

Edited December 29, 2022 by Tglassy

[Frustration]

22 minutes ago, Tglassy said:

Also, regular people can crack shardplate with enough hits.  It happens.  It's how anyone earns their shards.  The parshendi cracked many pieces of plate.  Yeah, sure, counless more died, but that's not the point.  The point is that heavy weapons can and did crack shardplate.  

Well, considering that Sadeas was surrounded and beat on for several minutes and still had mostly functional shardplate, despite Warforms being stronger than humans.

Additionally warhammers and maces are designed specifically to maximize the amount of force imparted(which is a huge deal, see how tempered glass can withstand sledgehammers, while also shattering to a simple spike you can fit in your palm)

Add all of that together along with the stones and the fact that arrows and pikes are ineffective against shardplate, even when backed by warforms strength and plate being able to withstand multiple bullets...

I don't think anything smaller than head sized is going to work.

Edited December 29, 2022 by Frustration

[voidlight]

The radiant would easily win. Stormlight gives the healing abilities of a gold compounder, and shardplate would be very difficult for even a pewter compounder to break, and the radiant could heal anyways. The shardblade could also one hit a gold compounder.

[NameIess]

54 minutes ago, Frustration said:

He mentioned plate, but I doubt it was shardplate, as that can't exist in the CR, at least as far as they know. It would be highly effective against steel plate though.

I don’t have access to the book right now, but I’m pretty sure Adolin specified that he’d crack the Plate with the hammer, then ram one of his other swords (a Veden one, maybe?) into that crack. With conventional plate he’d just hit them in the head really hard, so I think he was talking about Shardplate. And we have been told and shown that repeated hits from hammers can crack and eventually break Plate. The Parshendi did it, and I think we also heard about a lighteyes archer shooting a Shardbearer in the chest after infantry with hammers broke his armor.

[Frustration]

25 minutes ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

The Parshendi did it,

As mentioned above that wasn't very effective, and they had things going for them you really can't as a projectile.

25 minutes ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

I think we also heard about a lighteyes archer shooting a Shardbearer in the chest after infantry with hammers broke his armor.

If we did I don't remember. Send me the page number if you find it.

[Werewolff Studios he/him]

1 hour ago, Frustration said:

You get the same amount of power out as you would if you just burned regular metal, plus the amount you stored in the metal. And so, you get more power than you put in, but an amount determined solely by the amount of charged metal, regardless of how invested it is.

Just want to make sure my thinking is correct here. I'll use an Ironmind as an example, since we have a unit of weight (mass) to use.

For arguments sake, let's say a small bead of iron can Allomantically allow you to Pull 200kg worth of mass (random number as an example) towards you during its burn duration. A Compounder stores 10kg of weight in this bead, meaning the amount of potential power within is 210kg. They then Allomantically burn the ironmind and, instead of getting the Allomantic effect, they gain the Feruchemical attribute.

So, they get 210kg of mass to draw upon. They take all of this mass and store it in another ironmind, which now has a potential power of 410kg. The Compounder then burns that ironmind, gaining 410kg of mass to draw upon. Repeat and repeat until your ironminds are full to bursting with mass to draw upon, not infinite but definitely more than you could ever realistically use. 

Quote

Matthew Grady

Does a metal need to be swallowed to be burned? Or can it be injected or snorted?

Brandon Sanderson

It could be either of those two things. Yes. Basically, metal into the body in any way is going to work, generally. There's nothing magical about the stomach, even though it works the best when we talk about it. It's just more intermixing the nature of the metal with your soul in the cosmere, your Spiritual entity, is what gives them that ability.

YouTube Livestream 10 (June 18, 2020)

According to the above WOB, getting metal into the body in any way is going to work, generally. This includes injecting them. If you're full ironminds are nailed into your skin, you could burn and store them near indefinitely, as the attributes are always being built upon. We see this with Miles and the Lord Ruler.

Is my thinking correct?

[Frustration]

27 minutes ago, Werewolff Studios said:

Just want to make sure my thinking is correct here. I'll use an Ironmind as an example, since we have a unit of weight (mass) to use.

For arguments sake, let's say a small bead of iron can Allomantically allow you to Pull 200kg worth of mass (random number as an example) towards you during its burn duration. A Compounder stores 10kg of weight in this bead, meaning the amount of potential power within is 210kg. They then Allomantically burn the ironmind and, instead of getting the Allomantic effect, they gain the Feruchemical attribute.

So, they get 210kg of mass to draw upon. They take all of this mass and store it in another ironmind, which now has a potential power of 410kg. The Compounder then burns that ironmind, gaining 410kg of mass to draw upon. Repeat and repeat until your ironminds are full to bursting with mass to draw upon, not infinite but definitely more than you could ever realistically use. 

According to the above WOB, getting metal into the body in any way is going to work, generally. This includes injecting them. If you're full ironminds are nailed into your skin, you could burn and store them near indefinitely, as the attributes are always being built upon. We see this with Miles and the Lord Ruler.

Is my thinking correct?

Yes,

other than that it would be that burning iron gives a pull equal to 200 kg of force, not giving the ability to pull on a 200 kg object other than that you've got it.

[Werewolff Studios he/him]

Just now, Frustration said:

Yes,

other than that it would be that burning iron gives a pull equal to 200 kg of force, not giving the ability to pull on a 200 kg object other than that you've got it.

Yes, of course. 200kg of potential force ie, you can pull a 10kg object towards you 20 times.

Alright, got it. Perhaps that's where the tenfold number comes from then? 

Example. An ironmind ring with a mass of 10 grams can store 10kg of Feruchemical mass. However, if you were to burn 10 grams of iron Allomantically, you would have access to 100kg of Allomantic power. Therefore, when you burn the ironmind proper, you gain access to 100kg of Feruchemical mass.

And this applies across the board to all metalminds and attributes. 

[therunner he/him]

6 hours ago, Tglassy said:

Also, regular people can crack shardplate with enough hits.  It happens.  It's how anyone earns their shards.  The parshendi cracked many pieces of plate.  Yeah, sure, counless more died, but that's not the point.  The point is that heavy weapons can and did crack shardplate.  

Not really, regular people don't earn Shards, Kaladin was a freak occurrence and only folk stories are told of others who managed it.

Parshendi need to be in warform (about twice as strong as regular human), keep the plate wearer immobilized, and beat on it for minutes to actually break a section enough for it to be dangerous. And there were multiple of them.

A single regular person, or even A-pewter misting won't be able to pull of the same because they lack 1) time , 2) help of many other people.


For the topic at hand, first one note that people keep getting wrong about plate

• Plate can be fully sealed to become airtight, and then the faceplate becomes fully transparent (for living plate). So for Radiant there is no reason to leave eye slit open. Jasnah fought like that for tens of minutes in RoW. So any tactic that relies on visor being open is relying on Radiant making a big mistake for literally no reason.

With that out of the way, the question becomes two-fold

1. Can the Twinborn survive long enough against 4th Ideal Radiant?
2. If they can, can they get through plate?

Basically the only change for survival is either Gold-compounding, F-steel and most likely Chromium-compounding.  I think F-gold alone would be unable to heal too many shardblade hits, so for it to be useful they would have to have lifetime worth of health stored.

Gold-compounder however has no way to get through plate, they would have to rely on technology which could be counteracted. On top of that, Radiant in Plate would be far more mobile and dexterous so they could easily hack away at them safely (or start using Surges).

Chromium-compounding, we have not seen yet (or even F-chromium really) though they might be able to beat Atium (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/360/#e10886), even then though they would not have a way to get through plate. Maybe if they had gun, and Fortune allowed them to shoot in exactly the right way to break sections? But they would also have to be able to dodge everything Radiant could do, and some Surges you cannot dodge (Reverse Lashings, Soulcasting, AoE Division, etc.)
So they might do it, through some freak occurrence, but I don't think it would be usual outcome.

Steel-compounder would be able to easily dodge, however attack is a question. If the technique of 'run really fast and let go of heavy stuff' works then they could eventually get through plate, however since inertia on the item would still be there they would have to move in straight line, which gives a window of opportunity for Radiant to set up counterattack.
Also Reverse Lashing, soulcasting, abrasion would be problematic for them and orders that can Fly would be nearly untouchable for them. Stoneshaping could also prove dangerous for them.

Twinborn with only F-steel could dodge, but I don't think they could use the speed offensively they would not have enough. One thing that is often forgotten about Feruchemy is that it gets increasingly inefficient the more you tap WoB (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/243/#e6126) . Even in the best case scenario were the the penalty for tapping more is not getting progressively worse, just each step has same penalty we get the following

We assume that the increasing tapping is not getting progressively difficult, just equally difficult. At 2x tapping we get 5/6 inefficiency, at 3x we get 1/2 inefficiency, ratio of these is 3/5, so then in the most optimistic scenario the penalty when tapping n-fold is 5/6(3/5)^(n-1). If I had 100 hours of 100% speed stored the time I would get out when tapping n-fold would be 100/n *5/6 * (3/5)^(n-1), so

1. Tapping at 10x speeds, to get total of 10+1 the human speed (i.e. 9*11 = 99 m/s), the time would 0.05 hours = 3 minutes (with original store being 100% (9m/s) speed for 100 hours)
2. Tapping at 20x speeds, to get total of 20+1 the human speed (i.e. 9*21 = 189 m/s), the time would be 0.00015 hours = 0.5 second
3. Tapping at 30x speeds, to get total of 30+1 the human speed (i.e. 9*31 = 279 m/s), the time would be 6*10^(-7) hours = 0.0022 second = 22 ms
4. Tapping at 40x speeds, to get total of 35+1 the human speed (i.e. 9*41 = 369 m/s, our first sonic speed!), the time would be 0.00001 second = 0.1 ms

So, even in the most optimistic scenario normal steelrunner cannot move anywhere near sonic speeds for more than literal mili/microseconds, and in such short time they can barely move from the spot before completely depleting their entire stores. This was the most optimistic scenario based on what Brandon has said, where we neglected that what he actually says is that each increase is harder than the one before, which is what I will do now.

So a F-steel ferring would have to spent 100 hours sprinting and storing pretty much all of that speed to get 3 minutes of ~100 m/s speed. And that is assuming they sprint at the limit of human ability the entire time they store, elite sprinters can sustain that for ~6-8 seconds at a time, so it would take them years to build up this storage.

For their A-power, basically only useful ones would be A-Iron or A-pewter.
Of course the problem is that they are still susceptible to AoE surges, they cannot take hits even by accident and they have not way to reach air, underground, to CR or to see through Illusions.
So Radiant could move themselves to position were they cannot be really attacked and think of a plan from there.

TLDR:
Chromium-compounder might win through freak occurrence enabled by massive amount of Fortune (~4/10), but they would need to have a gun of some sorts to pull that off.
However they have no way to stop or dodge any AoE surges (reverse lashing, stoneshaping/cohesion, soulcasting) leaving them susceptible to those.

Steel-compounder could win, the main way Radiant could counterattack are AoE Surges (Reverse lashing/abrasion/stoneshaping to immobilize, soulcasting for kill/mobility) and moving to space compounder cannot get to (air, underground, CR). I'd give them (~6/10), as Windrunner/Elsecaller should win as they can immobilize them and attack from safety, and the rest of orders would have some chance given creative use of Surges (Illusions to hide, Cohesion to immobilize etc.)

A-iron F-steel can dodge but they attack options are not good, so I don't think they can really win, same goes for A-pewter/F-steel. And both of those would require life-time worth of speed stored up to be able to pull of even that.

Edited December 29, 2022 by therunner

[Frustration]

Very good analysis @therunner my only point is that you do not need to be moving to store speed, as we see Sazed do it in WoA.

[NameIess]

9 hours ago, Frustration said:

As mentioned above that wasn't very effective, and they had things going for them you really can't as a projectile.

We don’t know that Sadeas was being hammered on the entire time, correct? His banner fell, and then Dalinar fought through the army to him, but I don’t think Sadeas was specifically on the ground with his Plate being smashed the entire time.

Quote

If we did I don't remember. Send me the page number if you find it.

I won’t have access to my book till Thursday or Friday, so if the thread’s still open then I’ll try to find it.

[Letryx13]

Aside from compounding Steel and Pewter, which are the Feruchemical powers that can compete with Radiants, a TwinBorn probably couldn't beat a 4th ideal Radiant unless they still had either one of those two metals for Feruchemy, or Iron.  They might be able to increase their weight enough to crash through ShardPlate. None of the other Feruchemical powers would do much against ShardPlate.

I don't think there's a single Allomantic power that could match ShardBlades and Plate, never mind Radiant healing or SurgeBinding.  Pewter doesn't increase strength enough, Steel wouldn't fire metal hard enough to break through plate and if the metal was large, the Radiant could avoid it, emotional Allomancy doesn't penetrate plate, Chromium Leeching wouldn't get through on it's own, and speed bubbles wouldn't help much on their own.  The only Allomantic power that seems like it could match plate is Atium, but that alone might not be enough.  They might be able to know what their opponent is going to do next, but that might not matter if they can't react quickly enough.

For a TwinBorn to stand a chance against full shard bearer (not to mention 4th ideal Radiants) I think they'd need to have some combination of Feruchmical Steel, Pewter, or Iron, along with Allomantic Pewter, Steel, Chromium, or Atium.   I doubt any other TwinBorn could win.

[Frustration]

19 minutes ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

We don’t know that Sadeas was being hammered on the entire time, correct? His banner fell, and then Dalinar fought through the army to him, but I don’t think Sadeas was specifically on the ground with his Plate being smashed the entire time.

While we do not have confirmation, that is the implication.

[NameIess]

A dual iron Twinborn could have a shot at victory if, and only if, they manage to get the drop on the Radiant (literally and figuratively) and crush their Plate completely. Assuming the Twinborn didn’t plate themselves with aluminum the Radiant might be able to heal, but regenerating their entire suit of Plate will take far too much Stormlight. And if they manage to crush the Radiant’s head or upper spine against the ground, it’s possible they’d be unable to heal as long as the Twinborn sits on top of them.

[therunner he/him]

2 hours ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

A dual iron Twinborn could have a shot at victory if, and only if, they manage to get the drop on the Radiant (literally and figuratively) and crush their Plate completely. Assuming the Twinborn didn’t plate themselves with aluminum the Radiant might be able to heal, but regenerating their entire suit of Plate will take far too much Stormlight. And if they manage to crush the Radiant’s head or upper spine against the ground, it’s possible they’d be unable to heal as long as the Twinborn sits on top of them.

Though if Radiant is conscious (and positioned well enough), they could summon blade in such a form to cut and kill Twinborn, which would immediately remove the weight and allow them to heal.

[NameIess]

26 minutes ago, therunner said:

Though if Radiant is conscious (and positioned well enough), they could summon blade in such a form to cut and kill Twinborn, which would immediately remove the weight and allow them to heal.

Yes, although the Twinborn’s metalminds (of which they’d probably want a lot. I’d imagine using a full suit of armor wouldn’t be out of the picture if they knew what they were up against) could prevent the Blade from killing them.

[Frustration]

47 minutes ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

Yes, although the Twinborn’s metalminds (of which they’d probably want a lot. I’d imagine using a full suit of armor wouldn’t be out of the picture if they knew what they were up against) could prevent the Blade from killing them.

With Spiritual Adhesion, Gravitation, Division, Abrasion, Progression, Transformation, Transportation, or Cohesion they would be able to escape.

That accounts for all orders.

Edited December 29, 2022 by Frustration

[NameIess]

6 minutes ago, Frustration said:

With Spiritual Adhesion, Gravitation, Division, Abrasion, Progression, Transformation, Transportation, or Cohesion they would be able to escape.

Spiritual adhesion? I think a Bondsmiths would be better off opening a perpendicularity or something.

Gravitation won’t work, considering how much Stormlight they’d need to lash the Twinborn.

division probably wouldn’t work on the Twinborn, but it could kill them by burning the ground around them. 

abrasion should let the Twinborn slip out.

transformation… I don’t know. Maybe you could turn the ground beneath you to air? Might not be too effective. Although transforming the air to stone would work.

transportation would definitely work, but using it would probably result in a draw, considering the difficulty of getting back to the physical realm.

cohesion could work too, suffocate the Twinborn in stone.

All of this assumes, of course, that the Radiant’s head isn’t crushed underneath the Twinborn. If that happens, they won’t be conscious to use their surges and the Twinborn can just wait until their Stormlight runs out. So, there is a chance, if the Twinborn is rather lucky.

[Frustration]

21 minutes ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

Spiritual adhesion? I think a Bondsmiths would be better off opening a perpendicularity or something.

I was thinking more stripping the compounder of their Connection to the PR and killing them.

21 minutes ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

Gravitation won’t work, considering how much Stormlight they’d need to lash the Twinborn.

Considering the amount of charge needed for full plate that resists shardblades I don't think the amount of stormlight will be a limiting factor.

21 minutes ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

transformation… I don’t know. Maybe you could turn the ground beneath you to air? Might not be too effective. Although transforming the air to stone would work.

You can also transfer yourself to the CR with it, or soulcast the compounders metalminds.

21 minutes ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

transportation would definitely work, but using it would probably result in a draw, considering the difficulty of getting back to the physical realm.

It just requires technique

Spoiler

Questioner

Can you tell me anything about the Elsecallers we don't know yet?

Brandon Sanderson

They should be able to get back out of Shadesmar without having to find a perpendicularity, but Jasnah doesn't know how to do it yet. She should be able to do that, she just hasn't figured it out.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/398/#e13196

 

Another thought is that someone with tension could probably just lift the compounders off of them.

 

21 minutes ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

All of this assumes, of course, that the Radiant’s head isn’t crushed underneath the Twinborn. If that happens, they won’t be conscious to use their surges and the Twinborn can just wait until their Stormlight runs out. So, there is a chance, if the Twinborn is rather lucky.

Surprise favors whoever has it.

Edited December 29, 2022 by Frustration

[NameIess]

44 minutes ago, Frustration said:

I was thinking more stripping the compounder of their Connection to the PR and killing them.

That could work, although we haven’t seen a Bondsmiths simply deleting a connection yet.

Quote

Considering the amount of charge needed for full plate that resists shardblades I don't think the amount of stormlight will be a limiting factor.

It will be if the Radiant has anywhere near normal levels of Stormlight. If they have too much, then yes, gravitation will work.

Quote

You can also transfer yourself to the CR with it, or soulcast the compounders metalminds.

You can’t physically transport yourself to the CR, unless I’m mistaken, and soulcasting full metalminds would take absurd levels of Stormlight. If the Radiant has that much Stormlight, then yeah, that would work.

Quote

It just requires technique

It is possible without a perpendicularity. That doesn’t mean it’s easy to get back.

Quote

Another thought is that someone with tension could probably just lift the compounders off of them.

I don’t think that we can take one thing that Dalinar did once as proof that tension allows super strength in all scenarios.

Quote

Surprise favors whoever has it.

Yes. As I said, this only works if the compounder can get the drop on the Radiant. Otherwise the fight would be very much in the Radiant’s favor.

[Frustration]

1 hour ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

That could work, although we haven’t seen a Bondsmiths simply deleting a connection yet.

Even just taking it away should be enough.

1 hour ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

It will be if the Radiant has anywhere near normal levels of Stormlight. If they have too much, then yes, gravitation will work.

The same could be said about an iron compounder.

1 hour ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

You can’t physically transport yourself to the CR, unless I’m mistaken,

You can RoW 322

1 hour ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

and soulcasting full metalminds would take absurd levels of Stormlight. If the Radiant has that much Stormlight, then yeah, that would work.

A fabrial soulcaster could do it.

Spoiler

Questioner

Can you Soulcast an Invested object?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, but it's much harder. But humans are Invested, and you can soulcast humans.

Questioner

So, suppose you had a goldmind that was filled. And you tried to Soulcast into iron. What would happen to the Investiture inside it?

Brandon Sanderson

So, the Investiture would remain in there, but it's keyed to the wrong thing, so you wouldn't be able to get it. It'd be much harder to Soulcast that, by the way. The more Invested, the harder it is. But Soulcasters are used to it, because everything has Investiture, and most of what they're Soulcasting. They deal with this, so it's something they're kind of expert at. So, this is not outside reason, that it could happen. You could give it to your average Soulcaster on Roshar, and they could make it happen. You just wouldn't be able to get the Investiture out of it anymore.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/31/#e9681

 

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

I don’t think that we can take one thing that Dalinar did once as proof that tension allows super strength in all scenarios.

I don't see why it wouldn't, especially since Stonewards are the ones that get it.

[NameIess]

1 hour ago, Frustration said:

Even just taking it away should be enough.

If they can do that, then yeah.

Quote

The same could be said about an iron compounder.

I mean, could it? Wax is no compounder and he’s done plenty of feats somewhat close to this.

Quote

You can RoW 322

Don’t have access to the book right now, but I’m pretty sure that Jasnah told Shallan that she couldn’t bring herself over in OB

Quote

A fabrial soulcaster could do it.

That WoB says filled, not full. And that the more invested it is the more difficult it becomes. A full metalmind is almost a Shardblade.

Quote

I don't see why it wouldn't, especially since Stonewards are the ones that get it.

And they have a reputation for super strength? It could have been a Bondsmiths only thing.

[Frustration]

5 minutes ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

I mean, could it? Wax is no compounder and he’s done plenty of feats somewhat close to this.

He also has stored for decades.

6 minutes ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

Don’t have access to the book right now, but I’m pretty sure that Jasnah told Shallan that she couldn’t bring herself over in OB

It says that they can go to the CR, but they can't get back on their own.

7 minutes ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

That WoB says filled, not full. And that the more invested it is the more difficult it becomes. A full metalmind is almost a Shardblade.

You can soulcast shardplate

Spoiler

Questioner

Can Shardplate be Soulcast?

Brandon Sanderson

Shardplate could be Soulcast, but anything Invested is very difficult to Soulcast and it would essentially destroy it. Which would be one of the few ways to destroy Shardplate.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/69/#e6254

 

 

And it says soulcasters are used to dealing with resistance.

10 minutes ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

And they have a reputation for super strength? It could have been a Bondsmiths only thing.

Just as the best fighters, which boosted strength would help