Best Investiture in the Cosmere?

Flaming Coinshot · July 7, 2022

Alright, so I've seen a bunch of "Mistborn vs Knight Radiant" and Jedi vs Knight Radiant, and because I haven't the time nor patience to read through all of those, I'm going to pose a question that's likely already been answered. Let's say that a bunch of the "strongest" investiture users across the Cosmere had a a fight. I'm not counting any Yolen natives cause all the ones we know of we don't know a lot about their magic and a lot of them are OP. So: Here we go. Representing Scadrial, it's the Fullborn, from Roshar the 5th Ideal Knight Radiant (Pick the Order you think is the best in a fight), The God King from Nalthis, let's say an Elantrian as good as Raoden, a Sand Master who can control, let's say, 30 threads. I'm not gonna count shades cause most of these guys can outrun or kill a shade with relative ease, and First of the Sun doesn't have a lot of physically manifested Investiture besides the mind-reading guys, who aren't human and I feel they can also be killed with relative ease, so we'll just go with the above.

God-King, Fullborn, 5th Ideal Radiant of any Order, Sand Master with 30 Threads and Salitrification, Elantrian. And they're fighting in a place where Elantrian magic is strong and the Sand Master has enough Taldain Sand for years.

Edit: Nightmaws and Deepstalkers as well as Shades are included

Edited July 7, 2022 by Flaming Coinshoot

Quantus · July 7, 2022

In the context of a 1-on-1 fight in person, A fullborn always wins because Speedsters are inherently OP. They have super physical and mental speed, healing, heightened intuition, actual Temporal Manipulation, and (assuming Atium supplies) enough literal precognition to react to any danger before it reaches them.

The only potential challengers are a Soulcaster, a very prepared Elantrian, or something that can remove the Fullborn's investiture faster than they can tap/flair/etc. it (so maaaybe a mature Larkin), and they'd probably need to engage at range through Connection/Realmic means to maintain the element of surprise. A soulcaster might be able to transform them or barring that encase them in Aluminum enough to suppress most of their abilities (but it's debated which ones would and would not function), and an AonDor is a programming language for Reality so they could likely build a Trap to catch a Fullborn, something that blanks Investiture use and purges metalminds. Or a Fabrial akin to the Surge suppressing one, assuming it could be tuned to affect both Allomancy and Feruchemy.

Rg2045 · July 7, 2022

Have to go with bondsmith, windrunner, stonewared of the fifth ideal. Possibly elsecaller. I’m assuming that we are using the best of the best of each order/magic user

so I can’t see anyone beating tahl in a fight.

Ishar might even be able to take people powers away, and it known for doing things that’s thought to be impossible.

windrunners for the most part are able to run anyway and have abilities to literally rip apart. Can use them to take metals away to throw people off with different reverse lashes. Idk if kaladin is the best one to represents the windrunners, I want to believe that jezrien would be the best option and can honestly see him being able to pull advance reverse lashings to literally pull a person apart.
elsecallers idk about, jasnah is fairly competent with her abilities, but I wouldn’t say she’s the best. In fact I think she’s far from it. So I won’t say how they would win but I’m sure they can do attacks from the CR and that’s where a lot of the people are lacking defense from.

The problem with knowing the heralds abilities is that we have only seen glimpses of them. Ishar who casually calls for a challenge to Dalinar while 5 people try to kill him, and he’s average in comparison to talh who is said to be leagues above even the other heralds in combat ability. The windrunners are contenders for the best combat oriented order so you can assume that jezrien was at least top 3.
And we haven’t see the full scope of any of the abilities. So it’s easy to underestimate elsecallers as well.

Flaming Coinshot · July 7, 2022

A windrunner can't catch or run away from a Fullborn with F-Steel, F-Iron, and A-Steel and A-Pewter, but a Stoneward or Bondsmith would have a chance, while an Eslsecaller would need to be extremely lucky, and the Fullborn can simply burn Atium/Electrum or tap Zinc to counter almost any attack. But besides that, yeah, Stoneward, Bondsmith, or Elantrian. probably has the best chance.

Staenbridge · July 12, 2022

Much as I love the other magic systems, Fullborn are completely busted. Just about unstoppable for any other normal magic set, assuming Investiture supplies last. Steel (speed), gold (health), and zinc (mental speed) compounding, like @Quantus mentions, are at the core of their power, but they have plenty of other abilities which could carry certain matchups on their own. Brass (heat) compounding lets them set themselves on fire, oops. Iron compounding makes any physical engagement logistically challenging, because you have to knock over someone who might weigh upwards of a tonne. With Nicrosil compounding, a Fullborn could give themselves Bands-tier Allomancy, which is... a lot. You could almost certainly rip a human apart by variably pulling & pushing off the different trace metals in their body, punch through Shardplate like you're the superhero villain in take-your-pick of shows (viz. JoJo 5, Invincible, The Boys), and other types of silliness.

Honestly, I feel for this sort of competition everyone gets much too hung up on considering "Fullborn" to be a valid category, when it's about as likely to arise as a Knight Radiant having all 10 Surges, and on a similar scale for power. They're so absurd in-world that even the prospect of one is another level of divine, even compared to the other magical powers: the Bands are 32 different metalminds, when Allik tells us that getting 4 in a single medallion is all but impossible for mortal hands, and as far as human Fullborn are concerned, Rashek could only become Fullborn through holding the power of a Shard, with no one else managing it 'naturally'.

cometaryorbit · July 12, 2022

Fullborn are ridiculously powerful but I think a couple of Orders actually have a chance at 5th ideal with lots of Stormlight. Its not clear if Atium can usefully warn against things like ranged Soulcasting or Ishar's "now your Stormlight drains into the ground" trick.

Though mutual death may be a likely outcome here.

I don't think you can insta-kill a Radiant at high Ideal with anything short of Nightblood or similar effects due to Stormlight healing, the Stormlight has to be used up first... so super tapping Steel+Pewter shouldn't be an instant win here.

But "Fullborn smashes Elsecaller's Plate and body with a super tap of Steel+Pewter, Elsecaller Soulcasts Fullborn into a statue, Elsecaller dies when their remaining Stormlight after the Soulcasting is insufficient to heal the massive damage" is possible.

Though a 5th ideal Elsecaller could just Soulcast the Fullborn from the Cognitive Realm, right?

I wonder about Division at 5th ideal levels too... bathe the Fullborn in say 3000 C flame and metalminds will vaporize. Can you store the heat of your metalminds with Brass? You can't store their weight with Iron...

I don't think we've actually seen anything confirming that Gold Compounding can let people survive things on that level. We see Miles survive dynamite, we hear of TLR surviving decapitation and burning... but these are all things that let the metalminds stay on the body.

Surgebinding is IMO the most powerful magic system: it's literally world threatening when "unbound".

Edited July 12, 2022 by cometaryorbit

NameIess · July 14, 2022

I agree with the consensus here: in a one-on-one fight, a Fullborn would win. However, the god-king of Hallandren would win if the challenge was staying alive longer. Passive immortality is pretty sweet.

alder24 · July 17, 2022

Fullborn is just so ridiculously overpowered that it's just uncomperable. He can think extremely fast, move like lightning, heal almost any wound even decapitation, push metals inside body even invested ones, not to mention Atium. Even Ishar would be nailed to the ground with metals within his own body before he would be even able to touch a fullborn to manipulate his conections and that just steel push. You should maybe split it into mistborn and full feruchemist. As much as I would like to vote fo God-king cause he can just Awaken clothes of his opponent to suffocate him and I just love the potential of Awakening, fullborn is one true god in this fight.

DresdeMBM · July 18, 2022

On 13/7/2022 at 0:48 AM, cometaryorbit said:

Tough a 5th ideal Elsecaller could just Soulcast the Fullborn from the Cognitive Realm, right?

It is likely that an attack from the Cognitive Realm would be fatal, but there is a way a Fullborn could stop it. With Nicrosil compounding, one could probably make themself so Invested all soulcasting attempts would be futile.

Maybe with nicrosil compounding a fullborn could also create a perpendicularity due to all the Investiture created? That way they could attack the Radiant directly.

On 13/7/2022 at 0:48 AM, cometaryorbit said:

I don't think you can insta-kill a Radiant at high Ideal with anything short of Nightblood or similar effects due to Stormlight healing, the Stormlight has to be used up first... so super tapping Steel+Pewter shouldn't be an instant win here.

Also, I think it was said somewhere that if a person destroyed a Radiant's brain fast enough, they would not be able to regenerate, but I could be misremembering.

Duxredux · July 18, 2022

Question, how does weaponizing Hemalurgy play into this? Anyone can use it, meaning that any of these combatants could take a spike and use it to inflict damage directly to the Spiritweb, possibly removing their opponent's healing abilities. Healing this type of damage is possible, and some systems are better at it than others, comparing F-Gold and Stormlight, though I'm not sure how this works if the piece of the Spiritweb that enables healing is spiked out (spren bond, F-Gold). (Spoiler to compact WoBs)

Spoiler

Quote

Llwvyn

Hoid has said that what he does, when he heals or comes back to life or whatever, heals the soul

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Llwvyn

But Hemalurgy is like ripping off a piece of the soul. Could he heal that?

Brandon Sanderson

It is possible. Well, his particular brand of healing is very Spiritual Realm based. And so, it would-- he could. Not all brands of healing are capable. It depends on what's happening, and things like that. But yes, he would. Most Shardbearers [Surgebinders?] when they're in the throes of their powers would heal spiritually. *brief pause* Not all of them. Not all healing will do that, though.

Llwvyn

Yeah. Because I was thinking that maybe you could spike him multiple times and compound his power.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. Spiking him could do some weird things though. But spiking can do weird things to anyone.
Calamity release party (Feb. 16, 2016)

Quote

HazelCharm47

Let's say we have a hypothetical situation with Miles Hundredlives. In this scenario, he is wearing a gold metalmind filled to the brim with stored healing power. He is then spiked with a cadmium spike and loses his gold allomancy.

Now, if I recall from various WoBs, he would be able to heal using the gold metalmind and regain his gold allomancy. I could be misremembering and he cannot heal it, but I believe he would be able to since it is part of his Identity.

However, one question I have never seen the answer to is this: what happens to the ability in the spike? Is the allomantic ability still contained in the spike, leading to a duplicate? Or is the spike's ability lost? Or maybe I have this whole thing wrong and Miles could never have regained the ability in the first place.

If the ability duplicates (which I doubt), that could lead to some crazy things. Also, this applies to any Twinborn with gold Feruchemy, I just thought Miles was a good example I guess

Brandon Sanderson

I'd like to see the exact WoB's here to make sure I'm being consistent, as I don't know that I confirmed you could regain lost powers--only that you could heal from hemalurgic soul damage. Most likely, what you'd end up with is a person who has been healed and can remove the spike from their body without damage, and without needing it to hold their soul together--but who has lost the ability in the spike.

Regardless, though, what you want here (the mass production of spikes charged and even blanked) is possible with the right levels of investiture. It's an energy, like things in our world. The difficulty is finding out how to 1) get enough investiture and 2) key it to the right people and/or magic.

Hope that's a little more clear.

That said, a lot of times people just ask me if something is possible--and a lot of things are possible, but just very difficult. And with the right boost of investiture, in the right circumstances, it WOULD be possible to regrow lost (to spikes) powers. It's just highly unlikely.

I'm not sure if the questions people are asking me are ones I've qualified, or not, in these instances. Also, this is all something I'm playing with still behind the scenes as we enter the modern age of Mistborn.

HazelCharm47

As requested, here are the WoBs I believe are related. They might be obsolete, however. And I assume things will get changed a lot before Era 4, but hey, it's fun to ask anyways

WoB #1:

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/331/#e9434

This one states that as long as Miles still has his Identity, he would be able to use his Feruchemical metalminds after being spiked and would be able to heal.

WoB #2:

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/102/#e983

This one says that Miles would be able to heal his soul using Feruchemical healing and regain his gold Allomancy (assuming he survives the spiking). I think this is the most essential one!

WoB #3:

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/76/#e6335

This one is only somewhat related - implies that the Feruchemical and Allomantic powers are spiritually part of him.

WoB #4:

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/7/#e6435

Also tangentially related - damage to the soul from Hemalurgy can be healed (Although this might just be a Hoid thing). I guess the question could be expanded to include non-Feruchemical healing as a way to repair the soul after being spiked.

Brandon Sanderson

Well, I don't think any of those are specifically inaccurate. I just didn't quite understand what people were trying to get out of me. A lot of times, I don't know quite what people are trying to get out of me. I can see now they're trying to figure out.

I see now, and I appreciate you putting this all together for me so I can see what the fans are trying to figure out. So the answer is a cautious yes. The problem here is that he'd need to compound a TON of healing first--but yes, it would work. You could theoretically turn someone like Miles into an invested spike factory.

If he didn't have enough healing stored, though, he'd end up with a healed soul but a gap (like a scar on his soul) where his spiked-out abilities were. That could theoretically be healed with application of more investiture, depending on things like how he views himself, and if you could get the right type of investiture.
General Reddit 2020 (Nov. 6, 2020)

If this comes into play, then Speed, even more than before, is king.

To address @Staenbridge, I'm fine with including Fullborn in this, considering the existence of the Bands of Mourning. I'll throw in another combatant not listed that may have been specifically crafted to fight in this kind of arena. We never saw it, but this seems like it was a very real possibility:

Dalinar as the Blackthorn joined with Yelig-nar, the Unmade that grants all Surges.

Scadrial has a relic that grants Fullborn status and Roshar has an immortal entity that grants all the Surges to a single individual. There's a very real possibility that these two powersets will end up clashing eventually. Yes, I know that Amaram got trounced, but as far as I know he had absolutely no prior experience with using Surgebinding and frankly he isn't the Blackthorn. Give Dalinar time to practice, and he would be terrifying.

Who would you vote for, Dalinar as the Champion with Nine Shadows bonded with Yelig-nar sent as Odium's agent, verses Kelsier equipped with the Bands of Mourning defending Scadrial? I'd probably vote for Kelsier, but I believe Brandon could write a satisfying conflict and victory for either side. Both of them fight really, really dirty, but Kelsier is more clever than Dalinar.

cometaryorbit · July 19, 2022

Yelig-nar as Roshar's Fullborn equivalent is an interesting idea. Surgebinding (and Light based healing) power/efficiency levels seem to vary wildly* - Amaram's poor performance might not have been just inexperience, perhaps Yelig-nar Surge use is inefficient.

But if it was experience, then that could be potentially super powerful. There's still no direct Compounding equivalent though.

OTOH Compounding is still metal dependent, so Soulcasting or Division can destroy their metalminds...

IMO the big question is what's needed to access the hinted-at much higher levels of Surge power for non Bondsmiths (eg Hoids comment to Jasnah about blowing up armies).

*Fused Voidlight healing, and Honorblade Stormlight healing, are much worse than high ideal Radiant Stormlight healing. And low Ideal Radiants have much less impressive healing.

Cosmerenomics Enthusiest. · July 19, 2022

1 hour ago, cometaryorbit said:

Yelig-nar as Roshar's Fullborn equivalent is an interesting idea. Surgebinding (and Light based healing) power/efficiency levels seem to vary wildly* - Amaram's poor performance might not have been just inexperience, perhaps Yelig-nar Surge use is inefficient.

But if it was experience, then that could be potentially super powerful. There's still no direct Compounding equivalent though.

OTOH Compounding is still metal dependent, so Soulcasting or Division can destroy their metalminds...

IMO the big question is what's needed to access the hinted-at much higher levels of Surge power for non Bondsmiths (eg Hoids comment to Jasnah about blowing up armies).

*Fused Voidlight healing, and Honorblade Stormlight healing, are much worse than high ideal Radiant Stormlight healing. And low Ideal Radiants have much less impressive healing.

Could Soulcasting or Division destroy the metalminds? I don't think so I think they are too heavily Invested. We know that Allomancy does not work on metalminds so why should Surgebinding work on them?

cometaryorbit · July 19, 2022

17 minutes ago, LightweaverWannabe said:

Could Soulcasting or Division destroy the metalminds? I don't think so I think they are too heavily Invested. We know that Allomancy does not work on metalminds so why should Surgebinding work on them?

Allomancy does work on metalminds - both Marsh in Era 1 and Wax in Era 2 Steelpush on them. Wax mentions that it's harder, but it still works.

A metalmind generally has less Investiture than a human being (since it takes absurd Allomantic strength to push on metals in the body) and Jasnah can Soulcast human beings.

Division is more questionable since we haven't seen it on page doing anything but burning a symbol into wood, but I don't think it would necessarily even have to affect the metalminds directly - bathing the Compounder in flames hot enough to melt away/vaporize their metalminds would work.

Flaming Coinshot · July 23, 2022

On 7/12/2022 at 3:34 PM, Staenbridge said:

Much as I love the other magic systems, Fullborn are completely busted. Just about unstoppable for any other normal magic set, assuming Investiture supplies last. Steel (speed), gold (health), and zinc (mental speed) compounding, like @Quantus mentions, are at the core of their power, but they have plenty of other abilities which could carry certain matchups on their own. Brass (heat) compounding lets them set themselves on fire, oops. Iron compounding makes any physical engagement logistically challenging, because you have to knock over someone who might weigh upwards of a tonne. With Nicrosil compounding, a Fullborn could give themselves Bands-tier Allomancy, which is... a lot. You could almost certainly rip a human apart by variably pulling & pushing off the different trace metals in their body, punch through Shardplate like you're the superhero villain in take-your-pick of shows (viz. JoJo 5, Invincible, The Boys), and other types of silliness.

Actually...

If not for the Lord Ruler, there'd be a fair amount of Fullborn. But besides that, like you said, a Nicrosil Compounder is functionally a Fullborn.

On 7/12/2022 at 3:48 PM, cometaryorbit said:

I wonder about Division at 5th ideal levels too... bathe the Fullborn in say 3000 C flame and metalminds will vaporize. Can you store the heat of your metalminds with Brass? You can't store their weight with Iron...

You can decrease your body heat drastically. That would cool the metalminds a lot, and you could tap gold/burn pewter to heal hypothermia, shock, or frostbite. That would keep the metalminds cool enough for you to either kill the flame or find water. Also, most methods of Surgebinding require you to touch your object-rg2045's earlier example of Kaladin ripping a Fused's head off was just Kaladin's timing/skill.

On 7/19/2022 at 11:30 AM, cometaryorbit said:

OTOH Compounding is still metal dependent, so Soulcasting or Division can destroy their metalminds...

I'm taking a wild assumption here, but I think that because they're highly invested it's going to take harder to destroy Fullborn-level metalminds.

cometaryorbit · July 26, 2022

On 7/23/2022 at 6:01 PM, Flaming Coinshot said:

Actually...

If not for the Lord Ruler, there'd be a fair amount of Fullborn. But besides that, like you said, a Nicrosil Compounder is functionally a Fullborn.

I disagree - I doubt nicrosil compounding lets you create new powers.

Allomancy and Feruchemy Spiritual DNA genes interfere, which is why Feruchemists in Era 2 have only one power (Ferrings) rather than all of them as in Era 1.

A natural Fullborn might not be impossible (TLR seemed to think it was possible), and early Era 1 bloodlines were much stronger than Era 2*. But I think it would be a "maybe once in a thousand years" thing if possible at all. You might get Mistborn with one Feruchemy power or full Feruchemists with one Allomantic power though... which would still be super scary. A Mistborn with f-Gold would be terrifying, with mobility making it far harder to capture them, and one with f-Steel would be a nightmare.

*Allomancy was closer to lerasium era, and many Allomancers died in the Collapse and Ruin's release; TLR hunted Feruchemists for ages and all the Keepers at the time of Ruin's release were killed except Sazed, who removed himself from the Era 2 founder population by Ascending.

On 7/23/2022 at 6:01 PM, Flaming Coinshot said:

I'm taking a wild assumption here, but I think that because they're highly invested it's going to take harder to destroy Fullborn-level metalminds.

Harder than regular metalminds, yes, but not necessarily as Invested as an entire human soul.

Flaming Coinshot · July 28, 2022

On 7/25/2022 at 6:30 PM, cometaryorbit said:

I disagree - I doubt nicrosil compounding lets you create new powers.

It stores Investiture. That's why it's used in conjunction with Aluminum to make multi-functional unkeyed metalminds.

cometaryorbit · July 28, 2022

20 hours ago, Flaming Coinshot said:

It stores Investiture. That's why it's used in conjunction with Aluminum to make multi-functional unkeyed metalminds.

Right but that still requires someone who actually has the power to be added to the medallion, so a Nicrosil Compounder can't just create all the other Allomantic or Feruchemical powers for themselves.

Flaming Coinshot · July 30, 2022

Actually, this line of conversation is pointless cause we've never even seen a Nicrosil Ferring. Sorry for bringing it up.

Frustration · July 30, 2022

18 hours ago, Flaming Coinshot said:

Actually, this line of conversation is pointless cause we've never even seen a Nicrosil Ferring. Sorry for bringing it up.

But we do understand how feruchemy works, and have a solid, even if not perfect understanding of Nicrosil feruchemy.

Flaming Coinshot · August 14, 2022

Yes, but there could be limits and/or functions we're unaware of which is why I think we should postpone further questioning on this line.

+Kolten · August 14, 2022

Why postpone? Isn't the fun of this kind of question the speculation?

Some assorted thoughts from me,

One thing to consider is that as an individual becomes more and more invested the type of fight they can have might look less like a superhero showdown, and more how we see the different shards "fight" each other.

Fullborn are so tough because they can just pull as much investiture as they want from preservation through the spiritual realm. Most of the other magic systems require some sort of power source to fuel it in the physical or cognitive realm. Really the way compounding can be used to just pull out preservation investiture at such a high rate almost feels like a loophole in the magic system. It could be that part of the reason it works the way it does is because at the time preservation was mostly brain dead, and following Leras's "programming" by rote.

I think that the biggest reason fullborn are so strong is because the only plot relevant fullborn we have seen has been an immortal god emperor. I think when Brandon actually sits down to create a plot involving a fullborn or a steel compounder he will end up retconning in a few more limitations. I mean the way compounding can be used makes it hard to maintain the stakes of a story, and at the end of the day that is what Brandon cares the most about.

cometaryorbit · August 18, 2022

On 8/14/2022 at 5:09 PM, Kolten said:

Why postpone? Isn't the fun of this kind of question the speculation?

Some assorted thoughts from me,

One thing to consider is that as an individual becomes more and more invested the type of fight they can have might look less like a superhero showdown, and more how we see the different shards "fight" each other.

Fullborn are so tough because they can just pull as much investiture as they want from preservation through the spiritual realm. Most of the other magic systems require some sort of power source to fuel it in the physical or cognitive realm. Really the way compounding can be used to just pull out preservation investiture at such a high rate almost feels like a loophole in the magic system. It could be that part of the reason it works the way it does is because at the time preservation was mostly brain dead, and following Leras's "programming" by rote.

I think that the biggest reason fullborn are so strong is because the only plot relevant fullborn we have seen has been an immortal god emperor. I think when Brandon actually sits down to create a plot involving a fullborn or a steel compounder he will end up retconning in a few more limitations. I mean the way compounding can be used makes it hard to maintain the stakes of a story, and at the end of the day that is what Brandon cares the most about.

Well, perhaps the limitation will be that "anti-magic" effects (larkin/Leeching/Nightblood style Investiture drain, suppressor fabrial type effects, or actual anti-Investiture) are available before something like the Bands become able to be made more than as an one-off unique artifact.

If there are Leeching/suppressor effects around most important places (government buildings, banks, etc.) Compounding gets far less dangerous to society.

By Era 3 there might be ways to tune those effects to rule out the more dangerous powers but allow harmless ones (so your Archivists and Sparkers can use Copper and Zinc freely but Pewter and Steel won't work), or key them to Identity (so a mansion has a suppressor or Leeching field that ignores the owner's Allomancy but blocks everyone else).

--

The ability to draw on basically unlimited Investiture was shared by the Heralds too. But they were limited by their healing type being unable to fix certain things, and lacking unlimited speed.

(It still kind of bugs me that f-Gold can heal Shardblade wounds, etc. If what you are putting into it is physical health you should be getting physical health only out of it. I feel like f-Gold really ought to be strictly biological. But that's probably not a possible retcon to weaken Compounders since Feruchemists remained eunuchs in Era 1 Mistborn.)

Caged_Drifter · September 27, 2024

A Knight Radiant isn't enough. You'd need a fully powered, completely sane Herald at the their prime to compete with a Fullborn like the Rashek with all 16 metals. The Elantrian would need to be much better than Raoden, ideally with a few centuries under their belt and in their place of power. The God-King would need a thorough education about Awakening, they'd need more hax than just sending stuff flying around.
The others aren't qualified to participate.

PurpleZebra5 · September 29, 2024

So, if it were Taln at the height of his powers, fully sane versus a Fullborn, Taln would win - Therefore, Taln is the best form of investiture (Technically, Taln is investiture.), next to a fullborn.

#1 Taln Fan

Who in the Cosmere could beat Taln in a fight back when he was in his prime?

Brandon Sanderson

Depends what level of abilities he has access to. If you're saying access to full abilities, I don't know of anybody who could beat him in an actual one-on-one.

Dragonsteel 2023 (Nov. 21, 2023)

Best Investiture in the Cosmere?