therunner he/him Posted July 8, 2022 Posted July 8, 2022 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Flaming Coinshot said: But it doesn't take a genius to drop high-powered explosives, or to fire some cannons. I mean, modern war strategy is a contest of who can shoot the most explosives from the farthest away. Well, it took us over a century of warfare with guns and cannons and explosives to get semi-modern tactics, and even then you still had idiots who did things like cavalry charges in World War 2. And Scadrial does not yet have explosives to really fire, they have dynamite and they have regular cannons. 53 minutes ago, Flaming Coinshot said: I think that Scadrial will progress at the same rate as Roshar, but they're already further along and they have a (semi) unified government. And they haven't even fully explored the minimum of their potentional. I mean, as stated before they are further along in some ways, and quite behind in others. If anything on average Roshar at Era 2 (i.e. 10-15 years in future from RoW) would have parity. They would use different methods (magi-tech vs real world tech), but outcomes would be broadly similar. And Scadrial does not have even semi unified government. Just in northern Scadrial, Roughs are relatively independant of Elendel Basin, and (Lost Metal early chapters spoiler) Spoiler Elendel Basin is on verge of civil war between Elendel and other cities, and the situation is getting worse. Then Southern Scadrial is completely independent of North, and is formed of independent tribes. 53 minutes ago, Flaming Coinshot said: So when all these books crossover, I think Scadrial and Roshar will probably be very powerful in Cosmere terms, the more Traditional Science guys and the Magical Science guys. Yeah, that I can agree with. Scadrial as the regular tech + some mechanical allomancy/feruchemy enhancements vs Roshar as the magi-tech with some regular tech sprinkled in. 29 minutes ago, Ta'veren Kaladin said: My opinion is that in the end, radiants and mistborn would generally be an even match for each other, just based on the direction the Cosmere is going. How that is, I'm not sure because radiants really seem much stronger than metalborn, except maybe with extreme combinations of powers. I'd wager that it will be that while Radiants will remain far stronger, they will be rarer, especially as Medallions become more common place. So for one Surgebinder you will have 100 Mistings/Ferrings/Twinborn. Though before that happens Scadrial needs to catch up population wise. Plus Scadrial technology will suit them for greater control in Physical realm, while not giving them much options for Cognitive realm, where Roshar is stronger. So there will be that split as well. EDIT: @Nameless I did my best to check my physical copy of AoL for bullets piercing bubbles. I found only two occurences, one is Waxes's trick at the end (which is regular bullet), and the other is on pg. 284-285 were a Coinshot shoots at Wayne inside a bubble with a rifle. That bullet goes through and is slightly deflected on both ends of bubble, but does not collapse it. It is not specifically called out as aluminum bullet, but at the start of chapter Wax states that the gangmembers are shooting exclusively aluminum ones. That leaves two options The bullet was not aluminum, and the Coinshot ran out of aluminum bullets earlier (they are quite expansive). The bullet was aluminum, and the WoB is either wrong, or Brandon changed his mind after release and it will be retconned (i.e. option 1 again). If the bullet was aluminum it raises interesting question, why was the aluminum bullet affected by the Investiture at the edge of the bubble and deflected? And how can the aluminum be sped up, i.e. affected by Investiture? Considering this, I would personally go for option one, that it was regular bullet and this particular gangster ran out of aluminum bullets. Edited July 8, 2022 by therunner
NameIess Posted July 8, 2022 Posted July 8, 2022 2 hours ago, therunner said: Indeed, that was my reasoning. While I agree that aluminum (and chromium) grenades would hard counter suppressor fabrials, the grenades are 'one-and-done' and the effect is seemingly not that long. The fabrial has advantage in that it can be run for much longer, though it depends on how much Stormlight does the user have available. And even if it would be temporarily unusable, if it was aluminum grenade it could be turned off the second the effect wears of. Still, you can turn the fabrial on as you see something flying towards you, and it is as simple as flipping a switch, so I think suppresor fabrial is superior in this regards. Yeah, from what we've seen of them, aluminum grenades are an inferior option to suppressors. 2 hours ago, therunner said: I presume you meant The Lost Metal here? Yeah I did lol. 54 minutes ago, therunner said: EDIT: @Nameless I did my best to check my physical copy of AoL for bullets piercing bubbles. I found only two occurences, one is Waxes's trick at the end (which is regular bullet), and the other is on pg. 284-285 were a Coinshot shoots at Wayne inside a bubble with a rifle. That bullet goes through and is slightly deflected on both ends of bubble, but does not collapse it. It is not specifically called out as aluminum bullet, but at the start of chapter Wax states that the gangmembers are shooting exclusively aluminum ones. That leaves two options The bullet was not aluminum, and the Coinshot ran out of aluminum bullets earlier (they are quite expansive). The bullet was aluminum, and the WoB is either wrong, or Brandon changed his mind after release and it will be retconned (i.e. option 1 again). If the bullet was aluminum it raises interesting question, why was the aluminum bullet affected by the Investiture at the edge of the bubble and deflected? And how can the aluminum be sped up, i.e. affected by Investiture? Considering this, I would personally go for option one, that it was regular bullet and this particular gangster ran out of aluminum bullets. If memory serves, the coinshot fired at Wayne using Marasi's rifle. Marasi was using aluminum rounds that had been recovered by the constables and then stolen by Wayne, and presumably the coinshot was using those same rounds. 1
therunner he/him Posted July 8, 2022 Posted July 8, 2022 8 minutes ago, Nameless said: Yeah I did lol. At least we are even on confusing books 9 minutes ago, Nameless said: If memory serves, the coinshot fired at Wayne using Marasi's rifle. Marasi was using aluminum rounds that had been recovered by the constables and then stolen by Wayne, and presumably the coinshot was using those same rounds. Your memory does serve you well, he did do that. Well then, either he somehow ran out and had the exact kind of bullets on hand, or for whatever reason aluminum bullets don't pop speed bubbles, and at the same time are affected by them, which they should not be.
NameIess Posted July 8, 2022 Posted July 8, 2022 15 minutes ago, therunner said: Your memory does serve you well, he did do that. Well then, either he somehow ran out and had the exact kind of bullets on hand, or for whatever reason aluminum bullets don't pop speed bubbles, and at the same time are affected by them, which they should not be. It might be because time bubbles speed up time, and don't directly affect the objects themselves.
therunner he/him Posted July 8, 2022 Posted July 8, 2022 9 minutes ago, Nameless said: It might be because time bubbles speed up time, and don't directly affect the objects themselves. But at the edges the Investiture does affect the matter passing thought, e.g. by doing away with redshift/blueshift etc. So at the very least at the edges of the bubble Investiture does effect the objects passing through.
NameIess Posted July 8, 2022 Posted July 8, 2022 9 minutes ago, therunner said: But at the edges the Investiture does affect the matter passing thought, e.g. by doing away with redshift/blueshift etc. So at the very least at the edges of the bubble Investiture does effect the objects passing through. Aluminum functions in allomancy and feruchemy, so it could just be one of the exceptions to the rule of aluminum being immune to Investiture.
therunner he/him Posted July 8, 2022 Posted July 8, 2022 9 minutes ago, Nameless said: Aluminum functions in allomancy and feruchemy, so it could just be one of the exceptions to the rule of aluminum being immune to Investiture. I'd say there is a difference in the metal being a conduit for power in Invested art, and the metal not being unaffected by a separate power. But lacking other evidence, this is as good an explanation as any.
Flaming Coinshot he/him Posted July 8, 2022 Posted July 8, 2022 4 hours ago, Frustration said: Actually it does. European armies stood in formation and took turns shooting at each other until WW1. Looking back we can see that it was a stupid idea, but to them it was the most effective way to engage in combat. Nup. There was a fair amount of strategy involved. True, the generic strategy was to line up in a field and blast each other, then engage in bayonet combat with artillery in the early stage and cavalry trying to break enemy ranks, but there were plenty of kings and generals (Frederick the Great, Napoleon, that Dutch guy) who engaged in innovative strategies that involved feints, traps, surprise attacks, et cetera. The Eastern front of WW1 was Germans and Russians throwing gas at each other for the most part, while the Western Front was more of a slugging match then your average pre-Great war battle. The Brits didn't have that many innovative strategies, which is why the French and Native Americans tore them apart during the Seven Years' War.
cometaryorbit Posted July 12, 2022 Posted July 12, 2022 On 7/8/2022 at 1:32 PM, Ta'veren Kaladin said: My opinion is that in the end, radiants and mistborn would generally be an even match for each other, just based on the direction the Cosmere is going. How that is, I'm not sure because radiants really seem much stronger than metalborn, except maybe with extreme combinations of powers. I think by the time we get to full on cross-world stories, things like Scadrial's medallions will make the "natural" power sets less relevant. So Scadrial can be on par with Roshar without Twinborn individually being on par with Radiants. Especially as Surge Fabrials require a sapient spren, which are limited in number. It seems like every Southern Scadrian has a medallion for warmth? Or at least those with outdoor jobs?
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