Mid-Range Game 56: Day of Reckoning

[STINK he/him]

1 minute ago, StrikerEZ said:

I’m a neutral Epic who has beaten their weakness and is no longer evil. I have a wincon of my own that I will keep to myself for now. In addition, my role is that I cannot be killed except through the exe. Any actions beyond the exe that target me will be randomly redirected onto another player from the team of the player who targeted me. 

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[Thaidakar the Ghostblood he/him]

*realizes a lot of stuff* so if Mat is a scientist, and all the info is pointing at mat being an elimination... but it hinges on the point of there being village epics right? hmmm. I need to think about this a bit more.

[Amanuensis he/him]

9 hours ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Everyone: You should claim! We'll consider it!

Also everyone: No no you're still elim

Like

No one has even considered that the role makes more sense as a village role. Everyone collectively added it to the pile of evidence without a second thought. Why'd you want me to claim, if you were just going to do that.

The issue people are having with the 'one question' is absolutely absurd. It's the smallest thing. There's no reason I would lie about that.

This is a provable role. I would absolutely not make a role provable if I were making it up.

Ashbringer considered it. Striker considered it. Devotary considered it. JNV considered it. Kasimir considered it. I considered it. Illwei considered it.

Half of these people aren't even voting you. Even more have defended the singular question reason, including a person voting for you (JNV).

I can't really speak for others, but I just fundamentally disagree that your role makes more sense as a village role. It could be either. I'm more focused on the fact you think it's a village-sided role after Archer claimed Village epic.

I don't think you're lying about your role, for the record. I just think its easier for an elim to tell half/whole truths in a situation like this. Especially when it's provable (via item passing) like you said.

9 hours ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Again. Are you seriously pushing this as evidence.

The single question I asked was whether or not I could use the items. I found TJ's explanation of the role adequate and didn't have any questions beyond that. There's no reason for me to lie about any of this as either alignment. If you use this as serious evidence... I'm sorry I just don't know what to do :P.

Not really pushing it. The bit you quoted is the only time I mentioned it. I did refute people saying you asked multiple questions and only got one PAFO, though, which you've now confirmed.

9 hours ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Serious question I've been meaning to ask for a while, to anyone: First, can you name anyone who's defended me at all this game, at any point, ever? Didn't think so. Second, you're fine with voting me when it would mean that my teammates all collectively agreed I was completely on my own from the beginning? Elim meta recently has been decently anti-bus so this also is super unlikely. The only resistence my exe has had came from me.

Directly? No. Indirectly? Devotary and Striker for sure. Even JNV, to an extent, though I'm V-reading him anyway so not exactly relevant. Any vote on someone other than you is effectively a defense too.

9 hours ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Oh look a psuedo-inactive pops in to vote me that's not sus at all  

That all said, I kind of agree. Karnatheon. Care to join, Mat?

9 hours ago, STINK said:

Fun fact, I guess images don't get brought along when you quote someone but I'm sure you get what I'm attempting to do here. Is the whole debacle with page 6 there's options (most of which are unfounded but hey D1) then Matrim gets involved with quotes upon quotes and people quote the quotes of the quotes of the last 9 pages or so and then the vote has solidified around two people. 

Yeah, that's what led to me remember this train meme in the first place. This entire situation pretty much started because I opened my fat mouth about my Mat suspicions (runaway train weeeee). I'm not exactly happy about it, but I also think it's been useful discussion (given the number of players involved, one way or another).

Edited February 12, 2022 by Amanuensis

[Araris Valerian he/him]

13 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Elim meta recently has been decently anti-bus

Is this equivalent to saying "Araris hasn't bussed anyone recently?" .

Also, just wanted to say, you haven't been tunneling on anyone (Aman seems to have taken that upon himself), and it's nice .

13 minutes ago, STINK said:

So main thing here is that's three votes on Stick just because?

This, exactly. Not a fan of this, although Tani seems to be the main one, and maybe Aman.

Not a fan of Striker's claim. Not entirely sure why elim!Striker would post this unless Mat is also elim though.

And I'll join Aman (and maybe Mat) on Karnatheon. 

[|TJ| he/him]

30 mins!

Matrim's Dice (6): Kasimir, Ashbringer, Karnatheon, Archer, _Stick_, JNV
_Stick_ (5): Illwei, Matrim's Dice, StrikerEZ, Tani, Devotary of Spontaneity
Karnatheon (3): Araris Valerian, Amanuensis, Thaidakar the Ghostblood

[STINK he/him]

If this last 30 minutes turns into choosing a random pseudo-inactive thats voted and then gets hammered idk anymore

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood he/him]

Welp it is the last thirty minutes. I hope my vote counted for something at least.

[Mat he/him]

7 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

Directly? No. Indirectly? Devotary and Striker for sure. Even JNV, to an extent, though I'm V-reading him anyway so not exactly relevant. Any vote on someone other than you is effectively a defense too.

That's fair. JNV I'd say solidly did not defend me though xD

7 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

That all said, I kind of agree. Karnatheon. Care to join, Mat?

Will end up on whoever has 2nd most votes

but Karn

5 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

Is this equivalent to saying "Araris hasn't bussed anyone recently?" .

Also, just wanted to say, you haven't been tunneling on anyone (Aman seems to have taken that upon himself), and it's nice .

This, exactly. Not a fan of this, although Tani seems to be the main one, and maybe Aman.

Not a fan of Striker's claim. Not entirely sure why elim!Striker would post this unless Mat is also elim though.

And I'll join Aman (and maybe Mat) on Karnatheon. 

I was thinking of the AG, mostly, but I suppose that's also true

Thanks xD I attribute it to my tunneling on my own defense instead :P.

I buy Striker's claim, personally

Reposting my reads list with added commentary as a summary of my final thoughts shortly

Edit:

2 minutes ago, STINK said:

If this last 30 minutes turns into choosing a random pseudo-inactive thats voted and then gets hammered idk anymore

xD

Edited February 12, 2022 by Matrim's Dice

[Amanuensis he/him]

9 hours ago, StrikerEZ said:

@Amanuensis Simply put, I think you’re reaching. The question point is just absurd to suspect anyone over. I also had an interesting role and asked one question (at first) and got an answer. So it made sense to me that someone else who did that and saw other people getting mostly PAFOs would react the way Mat did. Heck, that’s how I reacted. As for Mat’s role itself, I don’t understand how it makes more sense for it to be an elim role. Assuming there are village Epics, which I think makes sense, the elims having that role would immediately tell them that there are non-elim Epics. Kind of defeats the point of keeping this game as a blackout imo.

I'm not taaalking about the question point. It was a very smol thing I wondered about briefly, and Kas ran with. All I said was that I found it surprising.

Re: defeating the purpose of the game being a blackout.

On 2/10/2022 at 0:39 PM, Archer said:

I do. What I'm trying to figure out is if we all have them, or if there's vanillas like Devo is claiming to be. 

Basically I get to ask dead people questions, but only if their alignment hasn't been officially confirmed. Which implies that that's a possibility. Also, it's unclear if they're allowed to lie. 

Is anyone else not an Epic? 

Like, what? Assuming Archer is being honest about his claim, his role provides context to him about the game because of how his role interacts with it.

This same thing would apply to elims UNLESS they had a mix of traditional roles and roleless. If even one of them has a slightly unusual role, it provides them all with implications for how village roles might be balanced against them.

ED1T:

I'm also willing to bet the elims were already aware of the whole Purgatory situation that Archer's claim suggests. I'm certain they have at least one role that interacts with that mechanic too.

ED2T:

9 hours ago, STINK said:

If this last 30 minutes turns into choosing a random pseudo-inactive thats voted and then gets hammered idk anymore

TBF I really want a repeat of my first Mafia Championship Game where myself and a few other villagers last-minute pivoted on an elim who'd not even been discussed at the very last minute due to EoD activity.

Edited February 12, 2022 by Amanuensis

[Experience he/him]

Ah I had vote analysis I was doing and all, but I don't have time to finish before rollover. But basically, after going over it I'm going to vote Matrim. First, def should not be voting Karn C1 because we will literally learn nothing from it and won't be able to progress next turn. Also, I'm getting really strong gut vibes that if Mat flips elim then Araris is one of his teamates, and that Kas mightttt be one as well. (Way less sure about the second one). But I feel better about voting mat than stick and really voting on karn only help the elims unless karn is elim. In which case we get an elim, but are left back at basically c1 again.

[Amanuensis he/him]

9 hours ago, Experience said:

Ah I had vote analysis I was doing and all, but I don't have time to finish before rollover. But basically, after going over it I'm going to vote Matrim. First, def should not be voting Karn C1 because we will literally learn nothing from it and won't be able to progress next turn. Also, I'm getting really strong gut vibes that if Mat flips elim then Araris is one of his teamates, and that Kas mightttt be one as well. (Way less sure about the second one). But I feel better about voting mat than stick and really voting on karn only help the elims unless karn is elim. In which case we get an elim, but are left back at basically c1 again.

Unless Mat/Stick is V/V, which is a reality I've been entertaining, if not one I've been voicing as much.

[Kasimir he/him]

2 minutes ago, Experience said:

First, def should not be voting Karn C1 because we will literally learn nothing from it and won't be able to progress next turn.

What will you do next Turn if we don't get an alignment flip, by the way?

Me, returning to the thread rn to find...idek

Spoiler

 

[Mat he/him]

2 minutes ago, Experience said:

Ah I had vote analysis I was doing and all, but I don't have time to finish before rollover. But basically, after going over it I'm going to vote Matrim. First, def should not be voting Karn C1 because we will literally learn nothing from it and won't be able to progress next turn. Also, I'm getting really strong gut vibes that if Mat flips elim then Araris is one of his teamates, and that Kas mightttt be one as well. (Way less sure about the second one). But I feel better about voting mat than stick and really voting on karn only help the elims unless karn is elim. In which case we get an elim, but are left back at basically c1 again.

Oooooh this is a take.

You're not wrong about the lack of info from the Karn exe, even if he does flip elim and I sympathize with Stink so Stick

As I said before, make connections with my 'teammates', do whatever, in a few hours you can forget all about them

Dropping my reads list + final thoughts/whatever at like basically rollover.

[Experience he/him]

Just now, Amanuensis said:

Unless Mat/Stick is V/V, which is a reality I've been entertaining, if not one I've been voicing as much.

That really only helps my point. If they are both village, it would be better to find out now, then spend all of next cycle taking time to lynch them again because we didn't get barely any info from this cycle.

[STINK he/him]

Just now, Matrim's Dice said:

You're not wrong about the lack of info from the Karn exe, even if he does flip elim and I sympathize with Stink so Stick

I'm 50/50 between voting on Matrim or Karn rn ngl

[Experience he/him]

Just now, Kasimir said:

What will you do next Turn if we don't get an alignment flip, by the way?

 

Hmm. That's actually a good point. I'm not sure. 

[Kasimir he/him]

@Matrim's Dice This may disturb you, but the Sacred Coin prefers you to Stick, and Karn to you :|

[Amanuensis he/him]

9 hours ago, Experience said:

That really only helps my point. If they are both village, it would be better to find out now, then spend all of next cycle taking time to lynch them again because we didn't get barely any info from this cycle.

Sounds like something who's E/E with Karn would say 

ED1T:

FTR, I'm also interested in a Devotary exe tbh. Nothing they've done has left me feeling Village about them, regardless of whether Mat is Village or Elim.

Edited February 12, 2022 by Amanuensis

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood he/him]

HMM. same as stink I am deciding whether to vote Karn or Mat. 

[Mat he/him]

Just now, Kasimir said:

@Matrim's Dice This may disturb you, but the Sacred Coin prefers you to Stick, and Karn to you :|

That implies v!Stick and e!Karn which I can totally see tbh

If the exes are v/v right now mine is absolutely better for the greater village

[Experience he/him]

Just now, Amanuensis said:

Sounds like something who's E/E with Karn would say 

I mean... can't really argue with that xD.

I'm not saying I think karn is village (I really have no idea), but that I personally feel that it's not worth lynching them first turn. Take it however you want ig.

[|TJ| he/him]

Last 10 minutes, please check if your votes are in the correct places >>

Matrim's Dice (7): Experience, Kasimir, Ashbringer, Karnatheon, Archer, _Stick_, JNV
_Stick_ (5): Illwei, Matrim's Dice, StrikerEZ, Tani, Devotary of Spontaneity
Karnatheon (3): Araris Valerian, Amanuensis, Thaidakar the Ghostblood

[Mat he/him]

3 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

FTR, I'm also interested in a Devotary exe tbh. Nothing they've done has left me feeling Village about them, regardless of whether Mat is Village or Elim.

Yes, let's all go to Devo within the last ten minutes, TJ'd love us for that xD

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood he/him]

For what its worth

Karnatheon.

Matrim.

[Quivil she/her]

there's like ten minutes and im still catching up but Karn