bmcclure7 Posted October 9, 2022 Posted October 9, 2022 13 hours ago, Letryx13 said: 1. We don't know how the LightWeaver imprisoned the unmade, or that they did so alone. The gemstones referencing the plan to imprison Bah-Ado-Mishram specifically mentioned requiring a BondSmith, Melishi. It seems highly unlikely that Melishi's ability to imprison BAM came from the connection. If connection is all that's required, almost anyone could work. 2. If SurgeBinding destroyed Ashyn, how much power would have been required? And if BondSmith's unchained weren't a danger, Honor wouldn't have enforced laws (which he did, according to the StormFather) preventing the misuse of SurgeBinding. Admittedly, this applies to pretty much all the orders (if he'd still been alive, the recreance probably wouldn't have happened) but out of all ten orders, why wouldn't the most powerful order be the most concerning? 3. Szeth single-handedly caused the collapse of the second largest kingdom on Roshar. The danger in the Honor Blades is that any lunatic can gain the powers of the Radiants by holding one. Moash has been bad enough. How much of a disaster would it have been if Sadeas or Amaram had one? Or just some thug would got their hands on one and went on a power trip. They could do a lot of damage before being stopped by the orders. 4. That's just in reference to the blade's fixed shape and the extra cost of stormlight. Being inefficient with Stormlight is the main weakness of the blades, but the SurgeBinding powers themselves are no different. And the powers are the real threat, not the ability to change it into a spear or other weapon. 5. What is it that Dalinar can do that Ishar can't, and how do we know that Ishar can't do it? 6. Moash wouldn't have had much time to observe, if I understand the timeline of WoR correctly. Maybe a few days at most. And that's all it took for him to learn to start using the surges. 1. Yes we do read oathbringer. 2. We don't know which surge did that. But probably division not a bondsmith surge and that was with a dawnshard anyway. 3.Szeth could only do that when he was the only surge binder 4. No more threat than any other surgebinder 5.see my other post 6. He had enough time to learn how to kill a fussed so maybe he is just a fast learner.
bmcclure7 Posted October 9, 2022 Posted October 9, 2022 20 minutes ago, Frustration said: Heralds could do it faster. Ishar did that. Actually the only mention we get of that is that at some point Kaladin showed Moash them. All on screen learning is Kaladin alone or with Lopen rock and Sigzil. Wasn't talking to you. 1. You have no evidence of this. 2. No he didn't and Brandon said he can't. 3.he must of at some time how else would he learn how to kill someone with gravitation. 4.sorry
NameIess Posted October 9, 2022 Posted October 9, 2022 1 minute ago, bmcclure7 said: 2. No he didn't and Brandon said he can't. Ishar literally summoned Honor’s perpendicularity. Are you saying that he somehow made a perpendicularity that doesn’t meet the definition of a perpendicularity.
bmcclure7 Posted October 9, 2022 Posted October 9, 2022 33 minutes ago, Nameless said: Ishar literally summoned Honor’s perpendicularity. Are you saying that he somehow made a perpendicularity that doesn’t meet the definition of a perpendicularity. No, he opened a perpendicular to the COGNITIVE REALM. Only Dalinar can open one to the spiritual realm.
NameIess Posted October 9, 2022 Posted October 9, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said: No, he opened a perpendicular to the COGNITIVE REALM. Only Dalinar can open one to the spiritual realm. The definition of perpendicularity is not a portal between realms. The definition of a perpendicularity is a large concentration of Investiture that pierces all three realms. You cannot have a perpendicularity to only the Cognitive realm. If you make a perpendicularity, it goes to all three realms. Edited October 9, 2022 by Nameless 3
bmcclure7 Posted October 9, 2022 Posted October 9, 2022 1 hour ago, Nameless said: The definition of perpendicularity is not a portal between realms. The definition of a perpendicularity is a large concentration of Investiture that pierces all three realms. You cannot have a perpendicularity to only the Cognitive realm. If you make a perpendicularity, it goes to all three realms. Then only Dalinar can open a perpendicularity.
The First Gem he/him Posted October 9, 2022 Posted October 9, 2022 On 12/13/2021 at 4:31 PM, Quantus said: Based on what we've seen I agree with the Spren's general stance that they are too dangerous to allow in the hands of mortals, without Honor to be around to limit their use. Thus, they need to be Removed from the equation, or else Honor needs to be Restored to it. Otherwise, those Swords will be MacGuffin level superweapons that everyone else fights over, come era4. The only thing more frightening than a Cosmere-aware Ligthweaver (now that we know the Power of Waveform manipulation) is the thought of what a properly Aware and educated, but entirely unrestricted and amoral Bondsmith could do. Just imagine THAT villain abroad and combining magics. What’s so scary about a Cosmere aware light weaver and what’s the power of wave form manipulation?
NameIess Posted October 9, 2022 Posted October 9, 2022 8 hours ago, bmcclure7 said: Then only Dalinar can open a perpendicularity. Except that we see Ishar open Honor’s perpendicularity and use it to travel between realms. And the Stormfather was shocked that he couldn’t feel it, which he wouldn’t have been if Ishar was using some method of inter-realm travel that was unrelated to him. Anyways, why do you think that Dalinar can do things that Ishar can’t? He can do things that traditional Bondsmiths can’t, but Ishar is a Bondsmiths unchained just as he is.
Quantus he/him Posted October 9, 2022 Posted October 9, 2022 (edited) 11 hours ago, Nameless said: The definition of perpendicularity is not a portal between realms. The definition of a perpendicularity is a large concentration of Investiture that pierces all three realms. You cannot have a perpendicularity to only the Cognitive realm. If you make a perpendicularity, it goes to all three realms. I'm not entirely sure that's true since WOB also calls elsecalling a process of making a mini perpendicularaity, and (so far at least) it seems to just pierce that boundary between the Physical and Cognitive. 5 hours ago, Hoids Wit said: What’s so scary about a Cosmere aware light weaver and what’s the power of wave form manipulation? A science aware lightweaver can create high energy lasers, microwave radiation, etc. A Cosmere aware one can directly manipulate Investiture and convert one type to another. 55 minutes ago, Nameless said: Anyways, why do you think that Dalinar can do things that Ishar can’t? He can do things that traditional Bondsmiths can’t, but Ishar is a Bondsmiths unchained just as he is. Dalinar is not Unchained, the Stormfather does that. The Stormfather merged with Honors Ghost which changed him and per WoB is giving Dalinar potential and abilities that the Stormfather and other godspren couldn't previously grant. Edited October 9, 2022 by Quantus
NameIess Posted October 9, 2022 Posted October 9, 2022 30 minutes ago, Quantus said: I'm not entirely sure that's true since WOB also calls elsecalling a process of making a mini perpendicularaity, and (so far at least) it seems to just pierce that boundary between the Physical and Cognitive. That's possible, but we don't know that Elsecallers couldn't use that method to travel into the Spiritual realm (In fact, legends of them teleporting imply that they can) and we don't know that a mini-perpendicularity is actually an accurate description of what Elsecallers do. In any case, Ishar specifically summoned Honor's perpendicularity and Dalinar didn't not any difference between it and the one that he summoned, so its safe to say that Ishar can make perpendicularities that recharge spheres. 40 minutes ago, Quantus said: Dalinar is not Unchained, the Stormfather does that. The Stormfather merged with Honors Ghost which changed him and per WoB is giving Dalinar potential and abilities that the Stormfather and other godspren couldn't previously grant. We know that the Stormfather has been changed by merging with Honor's Ghost, that Dalinar is a Bondsmith unchained in the sense that his powers are no longer regulated by Honor, and that he is capable of doing things that prior Bondsmiths could not do. Nowhere is it said, to my knowledge, that these new powers are due to the Stormfather's change. (Aside from OB, but that was Dalinar speculating, and I don't believe the Stormfather explicitly agreed.) Perhaps Honor's death and the Stormfather's absorbtion of his soul are what caused Dalinar's Bondsmith powers to become unchained, but I don't see any reason to believe that Dalinar can do anything that Ishar can't.
Letryx13 Posted October 9, 2022 Author Posted October 9, 2022 (edited) 14 hours ago, bmcclure7 said: 1. Yes we do read oathbringer. 2. We don't know which surge did that. But probably division not a bondsmith surge and that was with a dawnshard anyway. 3.Szeth could only do that when he was the only surge binder 4. No more threat than any other surgebinder 5.see my other post 6. He had enough time to learn how to kill a fussed so maybe he is just a fast learner. 1. I have, or at least listened to it. All it confirms is that a LightWeaver like Shallan who understood the unmade imprisoned her. We know nothing of the circumstances surrounding this event. We do not know that the LightWeaver acted alone, or exactly how the unmade was imprisoned. If I'm wrong and you know these details, please provides them. 2. I was not aware of the DawnShards involvement in Ashyn, but the point remains about the level of power of BondSmiths. And if Division is the only dangerous surge, then why did all the orders need to end? If that's the case, then only DustBringers and SkyBreakers needed to disband. 3. He wasn't the only SurgeBinder. The SkyBreakers had been continuing in secret for centuries. But even if someone who had stolen an HonorBlade was eventually stopped, how much damage could they do in the mean time? 4. Again, how much damage could someone like Amaram, Sadeus, or any power crazed fool do with one before being stopped? 5. It's specifically referenced as a perpendicularity as Ishar and his troops pass through it, read RoW. 6. He's a fast learner, they mention that in WoR, but so what? There's no reason to think that a thief who'd stolen an Honor Blade couldn't be a fast learner too. 2 hours ago, Nameless said: Except that we see Ishar open Honor’s perpendicularity and use it to travel between realms. And the Stormfather was shocked that he couldn’t feel it, which he wouldn’t have been if Ishar was using some method of inter-realm travel that was unrelated to him. Anyways, why do you think that Dalinar can do things that Ishar can’t? He can do things that traditional Bondsmiths can’t, but Ishar is a Bondsmiths unchained just as he is. Exactly, this is my entire point. The power of the HonorBlades come without any major restrictions. The only minor one is the Stormlight efficiency problem. Ishar probably used the power of his blade to take over that country and get others to follow him. Who knows what else someone might use the HonorBlades for? Dalinar is at least checked by his Oaths, something Sylphrena references at the end of WoR. Edited October 9, 2022 by Letryx13
The First Gem he/him Posted October 9, 2022 Posted October 9, 2022 2 hours ago, Quantus said: A science aware lightweaver can create high energy lasers, microwave radiation, etc. A Cosmere aware one can directly manipulate Investiture and convert one type to another. Danmmm when did the da base realize this?
Letryx13 Posted October 9, 2022 Author Posted October 9, 2022 3 hours ago, Hoids Wit said: A science aware lightweaver can create high energy lasers, microwave radiation, etc. A Cosmere aware one can directly manipulate Investiture and convert one type to another. Danmmm when did the da base realize this? I don't know, but it sure makes Hoid seem a lot scarier all of a sudden.
Frustration Posted October 9, 2022 Posted October 9, 2022 20 hours ago, bmcclure7 said: 1. You have no evidence of this. 2. No he didn't and Brandon said he can't. 3.he must of at some time how else would he learn how to kill someone with gravitation. 1. It's heavily implied that they can Spoiler treegrass How long does it take to summon an Honorblade? Is it ten heartbeats or instant? Brandon Sanderson So, Honorblades, as far as anyone knows is ten sec- ten heartbeats. If you were to ask Szeth how long it would take, he would say ten heartbeats. treegrass But they're not? Brandon Sanderson I am not saying that. I am saying if you ask Szeth, if you ask the current bearer of Jezrien's Blade, they would all say it takes ten heartbeats. Questioner 2 What about for the Heralds? Brandon Sanderson RAFO there. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/385/#e12612 2. As stated by multiple people, yes he can, and he did. And nowhere has Brandon said that he couldn't. 3. He had it used on him with Kaladin, but Kaladin did not teach him how to use lashings.
bmcclure7 Posted October 9, 2022 Posted October 9, 2022 10 hours ago, Nameless said: Except that we see Ishar open Honor’s perpendicularity and use it to travel between realms. And the Stormfather was shocked that he couldn’t feel it, which he wouldn’t have been if Ishar was using some method of inter-realm travel that was unrelated to him. Anyways, why do you think that Dalinar can do things that Ishar can’t? He can do things that traditional Bondsmiths can’t, but Ishar is a Bondsmiths unchained just as he is. What he opened Was only to the cognitive realm. So either 1. Perpendicularities do not penetrate all 3 realms or 2. What he created wasn't a perpendicularity.
bmcclure7 Posted October 9, 2022 Posted October 9, 2022 2 hours ago, Frustration said: 1. It's heavily implied that they can Reveal hidden contents treegrass How long does it take to summon an Honorblade? Is it ten heartbeats or instant? Brandon Sanderson So, Honorblades, as far as anyone knows is ten sec- ten heartbeats. If you were to ask Szeth how long it would take, he would say ten heartbeats. treegrass But they're not? Brandon Sanderson I am not saying that. I am saying if you ask Szeth, if you ask the current bearer of Jezrien's Blade, they would all say it takes ten heartbeats. Questioner 2 What about for the Heralds? Brandon Sanderson RAFO there. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/385/#e12612 2. As stated by multiple people, yes he can, and he did. And nowhere has Brandon said that he couldn't. 3. He had it used on him with Kaladin, but Kaladin did not teach him how to use lashings. 1. As I've already explained you're wrong Ishar only made it get get way to the cognitive realm. 2. I'll have to check again but I'm pretty sure a word of Brandon pacifically said that only Dalinar can do this. I'll look it up and then get back to you. 3. Never said he taught him I said he learned by observing. 4. That quote you gave literally says it takes 10 heartbeats to sumnon an honor blade.
bmcclure7 Posted October 9, 2022 Posted October 9, 2022 (edited) 8 hours ago, Letryx13 said: 1. I have, or at least listened to it. All it confirms is that a LightWeaver like Shallan who understood the unmade imprisoned her. We know nothing of the circumstances surrounding this event. We do not know that the LightWeaver acted alone, or exactly how the unmade was imprisoned. If I'm wrong and you know these details, please provides them. 2. I was not aware of the DawnShards involvement in Ashyn, but the point remains about the level of power of BondSmiths. And if Division is the only dangerous surge, then why did all the orders need to end? If that's the case, then only DustBringers and SkyBreakers needed to disband. 3. He wasn't the only SurgeBinder. The SkyBreakers had been continuing in secret for centuries. But even if someone who had stolen an HonorBlade was eventually stopped, how much damage could they do in the mean time? 4. Again, how much damage could someone like Amaram, Sadeus, or any power crazed fool do with one before being stopped? 5. It's specifically referenced as a perpendicularity as Ishar and his troops pass through it, read RoW. 6. He's a fast learner, they mention that in WoR, but so what? There's no reason to think that a thief who'd stolen an Honor Blade couldn't be a fast learner too. Exactly, this is my entire point. The power of the HonorBlades come without any major restrictions. The only minor one is the Stormlight efficiency problem. Ishar probably used the power of his blade to take over that country and get others to follow him. Who knows what else someone might use the HonorBlades for? Dalinar is at least checked by his Oaths, something Sylphrena references at the end of WoR. 1. Fair point 2.Never said it was the only dangerous one. Only that it was the one used to destroy Ashyn. 3. The skybreakers were not trying to stop him so. Effectively he was the only one. If the people he had been trying to kill had surge binders of there own he would have been killed probably is his first or second assasination. 4. That's an argument to destroy all surge binding not just Honnorblades. 5. Again I addressed this in several earlier post. 6. Fair point. 7. You could say the same thing for soul casters, and fabrials in general should we destroy those also? 8. It not like have others in real much of a restraint on a evil surge binders (Look at Nale or the dustbringers). Should we be destroying all surge binders as well? Edited October 9, 2022 by bmcclure7
Lego Mistborn he/him Posted October 9, 2022 Posted October 9, 2022 25 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said: 1. Fair point 2.Never said it was the only dangerous one. Only that it was the one used to destroy Ashyn. 3. The skybreakers were not trying to stop him so. Effectively he was the only one. If the people he had been trying to kill had surge binders of there own he would have been killed probably is his first or second assasination. 4. That's an argument to destroy all surge binding not just Honnorblades. 5. Again I addressed this in several earlier post. 6. Fair point. 7. You could say the same thing for soul casters, and fabrials in general should we destroy those also? 8. It not like have others in real much of a restraint on a evil surge binders (Look at Nale or the dustbringers). Should we be destroying all surge binders as well? Polite reminder to try and not post multiple times in a row.
Frustration Posted October 10, 2022 Posted October 10, 2022 1 hour ago, bmcclure7 said: 1. As I've already explained you're wrong Ishar only made it get get way to the cognitive realm. You CANNOT make perpendicularities only between two realms, by definition they have to pierce all three. 1 hour ago, bmcclure7 said: 3. Never said he taught him I said he learned by observing. Even when he could preform lashings himself Kaladin sprent hours practicing before he flew. 1 hour ago, bmcclure7 said: 4. That quote you gave literally says it takes 10 heartbeats to sumnon an honor blade. No, it says if you asked Szeth, or the current honorblade holders they woud say it took ten heartbeats. It is quite heavily implied that for heralds it is different.
NameIess Posted October 10, 2022 Posted October 10, 2022 2 hours ago, bmcclure7 said: What he opened Was only to the cognitive realm. So either 1. Perpendicularities do not penetrate all 3 realms or 2. What he created wasn't a perpendicularity. How do you know it was only to the CR? 1
bmcclure7 Posted October 10, 2022 Posted October 10, 2022 1 hour ago, Nameless said: How do you know it was only to the CR? Because 1. He cross through it in to the cognitive realm and 2. It didn't produce stormlight lik ed Dalinar's dose.
bmcclure7 Posted October 10, 2022 Posted October 10, 2022 2 hours ago, Frustration said: You CANNOT make perpendicularities only between two realms, by definition they have to pierce all three. Even when he could preform lashings himself Kaladin sprent hours practicing before he flew. No, it says if you asked Szeth, or the current honorblade holders they woud say it took ten heartbeats. It is quite heavily implied that for heralds it is different. 1. In that cause then what ishar created wasn't a perpendicularity in the first place. 2. He also had never seen any fly except Szeth and that was in extremely stressful circumstances. 3.then that is a quality of the Heralds not the honor blades.
NameIess Posted October 10, 2022 Posted October 10, 2022 5 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said: Because 1. He cross through it in to the cognitive realm and 2. It didn't produce stormlight lik ed Dalinar's dose. How do you know it didn't produce Stormlight?
bmcclure7 Posted October 10, 2022 Posted October 10, 2022 Just now, Nameless said: How do you know it didn't produce Stormlight? Because it would have literally supercharged all the radiance in the area. I'm pretty sure Brandon Sanderson would have mentioned that if it did. It also isn't described as glowing I'm pretty sure.
NameIess Posted October 10, 2022 Posted October 10, 2022 4 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said: Because it would have literally supercharged all the radiance in the area. I'm pretty sure Brandon Sanderson would have mentioned that if it did. It also isn't described as glowing I'm pretty sure. Dalinar had a perpendicularity up and it didn't supercharge them all.
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