A thought (by a dumb reader :P)

[Medium he/they]

Today I finished my re-read of Era 1 (second time eyy) and I'm going to start Era 1.5 (Wax and Wayne) later tonight.

At an activity tonight, me and a friend were talking about Feruchemy and Allomancy, Twinborns and Mistborn and the like.

And the thought occured...

What if there was a Mistborn, but they could use all Allomantic powers (like a normal mistborn) but also all Feruchemical ablities?

A double Mistborn?

What would the title be?

Preservationborn? Since (correct me if i'm wrong, which I probably am) Allomancy and Feruchemy are of Preservation and Hemalurgy is of Ruin

Just some brain barf, ridicule me how you like.

[Robin Sedai she/her]

I believe they're called Fullborn, though I'm not sure how canonical this is.

[Medium he/they]

Ah yes Fullborn makes more sense. But the issue becomes, I think, that Mistborn by themselves are rare, and my knowledge of Ferrings is limited, and I don't know much about Feruchemy, so I am not the person to go into depth about how plausible this would be in world.

[Frustration he/him]

2 hours ago, Theldragor said:

Ah yes Fullborn makes more sense. But the issue becomes, I think, that Mistborn by themselves are rare, and my knowledge of Ferrings is limited, and I don't know much about Feruchemy, so I am not the person to go into depth about how plausible this would be in world.

The Lord Ruler is the only confirmed Fullborn to ever exist, with three candidates for being Fullborn existing.

[Letryx13]

7 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated said:

The Lord Ruler is the only confirmed Fullborn to ever exist, with three candidates for being Fullborn existing.

I didn't know other Fullborn candidates existed.  Who are they?

[NameIess]

1 hour ago, Letryx13 said:

I didn't know other Fullborn candidates existed.  Who are they?

Have you finished Wax and Wayne?

[Frustration he/him]

1 hour ago, Letryx13 said:

I didn't know other Fullborn candidates existed.  Who are they?

Hoid, Marsh

Era 2

Spoiler

Kelsier

 

[Quantus he/him]

Worth noting that a Fullborn is not supposed to be possible naturally, for whatever reason gives both a "one or all" genetic options.  TLR made tweaks to his body while ascended to make it possible.  Other than that the only proven ways are via Hemalurgy or extreme Medallion tech like the Bands. Lerasium can make you a full Mistborn, and it is possible to use the Scadrian godmetals to make a Feruchemist but he wouldnt explain the process (making me think it takes more than just a specific alloy).  Lerasium is typically additive (despite the word Overwrite being used for it's power) so I would think you could use it twice to become a Mistborn and a Feruchemist.  

 

Quote

 

Yoitsthew

Would a Lerasium/Atium alloy create a Feruchemist, rather than an atium misting?? What with the way that it’s an alloy of god metals, and the way that lerasium can be used to acquire other magics? As far as I know there is no lerasium left currently, so this one is also just for my curiosity!!

Brandon Sanderson

You can use the god metals from Scadrial to make a Feruchemist, but I have to RAFO the actual means.

General Reddit 2020 (Sept. 30, 2020)

 

 

[Letryx13]

2 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated said:

Hoid, Marsh

Era 2

  Reveal hidden contents

Kelsier

I forgot about Marsh, I think one of Elend's chapters even refers to him as a second lord ruler. But I thought Hoid didn't want to use Hemalurgy because that would open him up to Harmony's influence.  Same with the Sovereign.  I didn't think there was any other way to become a Feruchemist besides being born one.

Interesting.

 

Edited December 9, 2021 by Letryx13

[Frustration he/him]

2 minutes ago, Letryx13 said:

 

It's possible, there is a way to gain feruchemy using metals, and then buring Lerasium on top of that would work.

For the Sovreign we still don't know how he did it.

[Quantus he/him]

8 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated said:

For the Sovreign we still don't know how he did it.

Do we know for sure that he did?

[Frustration he/him]

13 minutes ago, Ookla the Ingeniator said:

Do we know for sure that he did?

Nope, that's why I say candidate for Fullborn.

[cometaryorbit]

For Kelsier/Sovereign I think it is just a deduction from his making the Bands, which contain all powers. (But that's not 100% confirmation as we don't know enough about the process.)

Marsh has 20 or so spikes as of the end of HOA, so probably not complete Fullborn abilities, but pretty close. I doubt he has spikes for the metals not yet discovered at the end of HOA (chromium/nicrosil, cadmium/bendalloy). He might also be missing some of the abilities less useful for a super warrior like Duralumin/Aluminum Feruchemy or Aluminum Allomancy.

[cometaryorbit]

1 hour ago, Ookla the Ingeniator said:

Worth noting that a Fullborn is not supposed to be possible naturally, for whatever reason gives both a "one or all" genetic options.  TLR made tweaks to his body while ascended to make it possible.

 

 

I thought it was super unlikely b/c there was some interference (thus mixing with Allomantic genes produced Ferrings) but not impossible with strong genetics?

Few Allomancers survived the end of Era 1 and maybe zero Feruchemists, certainly very few if any. So the genes were already rare. The situation might be different if you had near Lerasium strength Mistborn and Full Feruchemists around, as in the early Final Empire.

The fear of a natural Fullborn was why Rashek turned against the Terris, and from holding the power of Preservation I'd think he should have known if it was actually impossible.

[Letryx13]

1 hour ago, cometaryorbit said:

I thought it was super unlikely b/c there was some interference (thus mixing with Allomantic genes produced Ferrings) but not impossible with strong genetics?

Few Allomancers survived the end of Era 1 and maybe zero Feruchemists, certainly very few if any. So the genes were already rare. The situation might be different if you had near Lerasium strength Mistborn and Full Feruchemists around, as in the early Final Empire.

The fear of a natural Fullborn was why Rashek turned against the Terris, and from holding the power of Preservation I'd think he should have known if it was actually impossible.

I agree.  It probably is possible for there to be a natural Fullborn, just really really unlikely. But over a thousand years of descendants, it's likely one could crop up eventually.  Otherwise, Rashek's action to separate the bloodlines doesn't make much sense.

Edited December 9, 2021 by Letryx13

[danex he/him]

6 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated said:

Hoid, Marsh

Era 2

  Hide contents

Kelsier

 

why is hoid a candidate?

he's almost 100% to be a mistborn

but i've never heard anything about him being a feruchemist 

[Frustration he/him]

Just now, ookla the quantificational said:

why is hoid a candidate?

he's almost 100% to be a mistborn

but i've never heard anything about him being a feruchemist 

He is a mistborn

Allow me to indroduce this WoB

 

Lamguin (paraphrased)

Hoid is regularly around when important events take place. How does he know where to go?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

He uses Feruchemy. Part of it that will show up in later books.

Footnote: Brandon has later said that Hoid uses the same underlying principle as Chromium Feruchemy, not necessarily the same thing. 
A Memory of Light Chicago signing (Jan. 9, 2013)

Now other WoB make it less obvious so it's only probable.

 

[danex he/him]

Just now, Ookla the Frustrated said:

He is a mistborn

Allow me to indroduce this WoB

 

Lamguin (paraphrased)

Hoid is regularly around when important events take place. How does he know where to go?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

He uses Feruchemy. Part of it that will show up in later books.

Footnote: Brandon has later said that Hoid uses the same underlying principle as Chromium Feruchemy, not necessarily the same thing. 
A Memory of Light Chicago signing (Jan. 9, 2013)

Now other WoB make it less obvious so it's only probable.

 

hmmm intersting

the footnote does seem to counteract that a bit

but still interesting 

 

do we know for sure that hoid ate the lerasium bead? 

RoW:

Spoiler

we might see him burn bendalloy on braize, and that would be confirmation, but it's possible that that was just weird dream stuff

 

[Frustration he/him]

2 minutes ago, ookla the quantificational said:

hmmm intersting

the footnote does seem to counteract that a bit

but still interesting 

 

do we know for sure that hoid ate the lerasium bead? 

RoW:

  Reveal hidden contents

we might see him burn bendalloy on braize, and that would be confirmation, but it's possible that that was just weird dream stuff

 

Yes we do.

Spoiler

Questioner

Did Hoid use the bead of lerasium to rewrite his spiritual DNA or Web in a way other than just giving himself Allomantic powers?

Brandon Sanderson

His goal was to become an Allomancer.

Questioner

And did he use it to create other powers than Allomancy?

Brandon Sanderson

It could not give powers other than Allomancy.

Questioner

Because it’s lerasium?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Oversleep

So he did burn it and become a Mistborn, right?

Brandon Sanderson

You have seen him use Allomancy…

Oversleep

Yes, because it’s creating a lot of <misunderstandings>.

Brandon Sanderson

You have actually seen him use Allomancy.

Footnote: Brandon has since confirmed that the lerasium was burned
Kraków signing (March 21, 2017)

You really should use the Arcanum, I cannot recommend it enough.

[Medium he/they]

1 hour ago, Ookla the Frustrated said:

He is a mistborn

Allow me to indroduce this WoB

 

Lamguin (paraphrased)

Hoid is regularly around when important events take place. How does he know where to go?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

He uses Feruchemy. Part of it that will show up in later books.

Footnote: Brandon has later said that Hoid uses the same underlying principle as Chromium Feruchemy, not necessarily the same thing. 
A Memory of Light Chicago signing (Jan. 9, 2013)

Now other WoB make it less obvious so it's only probable.

 

Idk, but the thought of Hoid using Feruchemy is kinda odd. After reading Era 1, I kinda got it into my head that only wise old Terrismen (i.e. Sazed) were the stereotypical Feruchemists, and that it was like only them or smth.

But my question is, when/how did Hoid get Feruchemy? Prob a RAFO, or I skipped something in this thread.

[cometaryorbit]

Hoid uses the power of Chromium Feruchemy (Fortune) but he might get it through a different magic system, in the same way as his non-Surgebinding Lightweaving from Yolen.

If he is a Feruchemist, who knows? We really don't know how the Terris got Feruchemy in the first place... (I think it's implied to be some kind of gift from Preservation, whom they worshipped under the name Terr. But why not Allomancy, which is Preservation's actual magic system?)

[NameIess]

1 hour ago, Theldragor said:

Idk, but the thought of Hoid using Feruchemy is kinda odd. After reading Era 1, I kinda got it into my head that only wise old Terrismen (i.e. Sazed) were the stereotypical Feruchemists, and that it was like only them or smth.

But my question is, when/how did Hoid get Feruchemy? Prob a RAFO, or I skipped something in this thread.

If you look at the footnote, it clarifies that hoid uses something similar to the underlying mechanics of feruchemy, and has a link to this WoB;

Quote

Xyrd (paraphrased)

You've mentioned before that Hoid ends up where he needs to be.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes, and usually without knowing why.

Xyrd (paraphrased)

Is chromium involved in that?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes. Well, he's not necessarily using chromium, but the underlying mechanic, yes.

Arcanum Unbounded Fort Collins signing (Nov. 29, 2016)

 

[Medium he/they]

21 minutes ago, Ookla the unintelligible said:

1 hour ago, Theldragor said:

Idk, but the thought of Hoid using Feruchemy is kinda odd. After reading Era 1, I kinda got it into my head that only wise old Terrismen (i.e. Sazed) were the stereotypical Feruchemists, and that it was like only them or smth.

But my question is, when/how did Hoid get Feruchemy? Prob a RAFO, or I skipped something in this thread.

If you look at the footnote, it clarifies that hoid uses something similar to the underlying mechanics of feruchemy, and has a link to this WoB;

Oh, I'm dumb, I totally saw that and then forgot. So then, it's definitely a RAFO, but also something similar to chromium feruchemy, which according to the coppermind, is storing Fortune. So... something like having a lot of knowledge.

[Rashek's PR Manager she/her]

18 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

The fear of a natural Fullborn was why Rashek turned against the Terris, and from holding the power of Preservation I'd think he should have known if it was actually impossible.

Even if a natural Fullborn is impossible, twinborns still pose too great a threat for Rashek, I think. Just imagine what damage Miles could've done in the Final Empire. Besides, it'd expose Rashek as a fraud.

[cometaryorbit]

I think a FE Twinborn would just get spiked by Inquisitors. Miles didn't have superhuman strength or speed, so an Inquisitor could just use Pewter Allomancy to grab him and spike him (sure, maybe he could heal at first with gold inside the body, but just keep spiking). 

Also, apparently Compounding is tricky to learn effectively (thus why the HoA Inquisitors aren't all compounding speed) so a FE Twinborn, with knowledge of the Metallic Arts being limited, probably wouldn't know what they were doing.