Rhythm of War Full Book Reactions

[Eternal Khol]

5 minutes ago, Parallax said:

Is the status of the Sibling explained? Is it associated with a shard like Stormfather & Nightwatcher or is it just a immensely powerful spren?

The Sibling is of both Honor and Cultivation. 
 

 

 

Are the “deepest ones” of Threnody, the same as the fused variety of “deepest ones”? Or related i wonder?

Edited November 17, 2020 by Eternal Khol

[Harkain]

2 minutes ago, Eternal Khol said:

Are the “deepest ones” of Threnody are the same as the fused variety of “deepest ones”?

Honestly not sure, tho based off quickly reading the Coppermind article I'd doubt it.

[Harbour]

Well, after reading the whole book the first major thought in my head was "Now i can see where Daniel and Merphy came from in their reviews". Im not a cosmere fan, i didnt much care about other planets and stuff, i want solid character arcs and well rounded plot, with promises that would be paid off in the end. I watched many BS lectures and i feel like with RoW he made a certain amount of mistakes he talked about in his own lessons.

Part 1 of RoW isnt the part to judge the whole boook by. It turned out to be the best part. Perfect pacing, a lot of character moments, perfect action/dialogue balance.Whats important - there were all major and secondary character interactions. It gave a sense of enjoyment, since these characters are the most lovable and close to heart, so see them interacting in a new situations was cool. Part 1 of RoW was the BEST Part 1 in any BS books. Its also one of the best parts in any BS books at all.

Most of those strengths were lost in the following Parts. Character split in different groups and none of their plot lines reached the same level of goodiness. New episodic characters werent as fleshed out or relevant enough to stand out, except for Raboniel. Overall the most plot lines didnt live up to BS high standards of TWoK or WoK or even OB. There are certain problems with pacing, a lot of stuff felt meaningless (like, you spent certain amount of time building the group for Shadesmar expedition and fleshing out new character, and then you just split the group in the end of Part 2?), and character arcs werent as well built and solid as in previous books.

I think Part 2 was my second favorite part, because Shadesmar part stiill contained alot of characters, including new ones, which gave some freshness, and Kaladin plot line went into interesting direction (him starting to working with people who had mentall health problems). Thats what i loved the most about Kaladin plot line, and, sadly, when Brandon just made him crawl around Urithiru for 800 pages, it felt like a massive dissapointment after what was "promised".

The only part that didnt feel fillerish or staggering (Dalinar/Jasnah or Shallan/Adolin trial or Kaladin Spider-Menning around Urithiru for 600 pages), was Navani/Raboniel. And while i also wasnt totally satisfied by it (In my opinion, this arc could have been trimmed down a lot), this was the best part of the book. Thats how you write the relationships of two female characters without going into shipping stuff or making them annoying. This is the only arc in this book that felt organic and done right. Id reread it for certain.

I also must say that i enjoyed Kaladin arc up till he ran away after killing singer. Overall i noticed that i much more enjoyed Kaladin character when he DOESNT fight and does other stuff instead. Like, doing business. I loved it in TWoK when he cared about making B4 life more comfortable, i loved it in WoR when he organised the bodyguard stuff around Kholins, i loved it in OB, when he organised the defense of Kholinar and solved the mystery of Azure, i loved it in RoW, when he bickered with ardent, created tests for people and asked people with mental health problems to talk in a round sessions. That was awesome.

Thats why the way BS scrapped it by making Kaladin kill that singer just to carry Teft around and waling around Urithiru, casually fighting and lying wounded for the rest of the book, left the sour taste in my mouth. I saw all of that in previous books. I know that Kaladin wont leave his friends in danger, but the hook for that (Teft) felt way too forced. Kaladin i know would remember that he had other friends and family around and would step away. Instead it felt like BS had no other choice to move the plot than making Kaladin crawling around Urithiru. It was executed bad. Id rather prefer Lift to have that role, while Kaladin continue to carry about mentally ill patients and slowly gain the trust of Venli or Leswhi.

By the way, i didnt mention Venli. Because it turned out she isnt the main character in this book whatever BS would say about that. Venli here has the role of spectator, and a tool to sometimes save Kaladin's ass. And thats it. Would be way more cool and interesting for her to meet Kaladin in Part 2 or 3, talk to him, slowly understand each other and so on? Absolutely. Instead they didnt even talk to each other while BS clearly wanted to make them meet, since he constantly tip toed around making Venli hearing about Kaladin, making Venli help his family, making Venli saw him fighting Lezien. It felt weird.

Same about Leshwi. I expect her to have bigger role in the book after Part 1. Turned out she had mere presence in the rest of the book and became the tool to save Kaladin couple times.

I also think that Cosmere parts dropped didnt do much to me. They felt either random to me or not having much to do with actual plot.

Forgot to mention Shalln/Adolin arc. Nothing surprising here. Felt pretty convenient and i expected more than just Shallan killing her spren in the childhood. Thats it.

As for Sanderlanch - it was too short and too chaotic. The set up for Book 5 was pretty confusing. Dalinar and Odium making the bet? Duel of champions in just 10 day? Kaladin to heal Ishar's mind? Honestly, this made me less hyped about Book. Thats not the direction i would like the whole series go too. Its personal opinion obviously.

Now, i didnt hate the Book. In my inner value-meter it is 7/10 book. Its just i totally expected Parts 2 to 5 be as great as Part 1. This book is my least favorite, not as enjoyable to me in terms of plot and character arcs as previous three but still filled with the stuff to love. Its BS still. But i say this - i think BS should spend more time fleshing out Book 5 instead of writing other projects. Because i feel like him splitting his time for other projects was the main reason RoW plot and character arcs werent crafted as good as previous books ones. I feel like with RoW he trapped into WoT middle books territory. And i want Book 5 to be better than that.

p.s. yeah i know i sound very sour. Thats how i feel. Reading Kaladin chapters in Part 3 to 5 made me more and more sour. Maybe on reread it will feel better. I hope.

Edited November 17, 2020 by Harbour

[Eternal Khol]

4 hours ago, Harbour said:

 

Now, i didnt hate the Book. In my inner value-meter it is 7/10 book. Its just i totally expected Parts 2 to 5 be as great as Part 1. This book is my least favorite, not as enjoyable to me in terms of plot and character arcs as previous three but still filled with the stuff to love. Its BS still. But i say this - i think BS should spend more time fleshing out Book 5 instead of writing other projects. Because i feel like him splitting his time for other projects was the main reason RoW plot and character arcs werent crafted as good as previous books ones. I feel like with RoW he trapped into WoT middle books territory. And i want Book 5 to be better than that.

p.s. yeah i know i sound very sour. Thats how i feel. Reading Kaladin chapters in Part 3 to 5 made me more and more sour. Maybe on reread it will feel better. I hope.

I feel like brandon kinda rushed this one. I just dont think he’s handling the transition into “space age” or crossover era very well

It feels like he's trying for too much in this one, and all of the larger Cosmere stuff is drawing away from the story Stormlight is telling

Its like we quickly just went from each book being pretty much standalone(little cosmere tidbits) to full blown crossovers.(Mentions of four new Shards, seons, the ghostbloods, white sand, vasher explains Returned, the heralds wants to go to other planets, a random terriswoman, etc...)

 

its still a great read with plenty of surprises, but it’s just... idk missing something...

for being such a long novel. It still feels extremely rushed to me

Edited November 17, 2020 by Eternal Khol

[Ammanas]

I just think it’s funny that I woke up at five o clock in the morning on release day and download Rhythm of War and lo and behold this 57 hour audiobook already has ten reviews lol.

[Darbies]

2 minutes ago, Ammanas said:

I just think it’s funny that I woke up at five o clock in the morning on release day and download Rhythm of War and lo and behold this 57 hour audiobook already has ten reviews lol.

It was released 24 hours ago in Aus... And we were already 25% through with part 1

[Ammanas]

2 minutes ago, Darbies said:

It was released 24 hours ago in Aus... And we were already 25% through with part 1

This is audible US website. Hypothetically the Australians would be writing reviews on their own regional audible webpage. Plus all of the reviews consist of basically, “Its good so far”. 

[Harkain]

12 minutes ago, Darbies said:

It was released 24 hours ago in Aus... And we were already 25% through with part 1

As an Australian I can confirm I foolishly decided to check if I could download it at 1am on the 18th... I did not sleep until 7am, woke up at mid day and then kept reading until I finished it at like 8pm....

Tho I was also trying to get uni work done so that probably slowed me down.

[Ramona Tehradin]

Kaladin doesn't speak 'Fourth Ideal'?!!!!

[Harkain]

39 minutes ago, Ramona Tehradin said:

Kaladin doesn't speak 'Fourth Ideal'?!!!!

Spoilers

Spoiler

He does don't worry.

Spoilers on what it is.

Spoiler

Tho tbh I was sorta disappointed that main theory in the community of it being about accepting you can't save everyone was right. I was really hoping it'd be more brutal haha.

 

[Ramona Tehradin]

10 minutes ago, Harkain said:

Spoilers

  Hide contents

He does don't worry.

Spoilers on what it is.

  Hide contents

Tho tbh I was sorta disappointed that main theory in the community of it being about accepting you can't save everyone was right. I was really hoping it'd be more brutal haha.

 

YEAH! My Kal baby does it! I can die in peace, embraced in arms of stormblessed! 

Spoiler

The part has to do with Teft I believe?

 

[Harkain]

Just now, Ramona Tehradin said:

YEAH! My Kal baby does it! I can die in peace, embraced in arms of stormblessed! 

  Reveal hidden contents

The part has to do with Teft I believe?

 

Spoiler

That is correct.

Spoiler

Also some spiritual realm mumbo jumbo tbh but it's written in a cool way.

 

[Gyirin]

Does Shallan and Jasnah have any interaction in this book?

Was Shallan's past revealed? 

I won't be able to get the book for a month and I don't mind spoilers.

[Harkain]

Just now, Gyirin said:

Does Shallan and Jasnah have any interaction in this book?

Was Shallan's past revealed? 

I won't be able to get the book for a month and I don't mind spoilers.

On their interaction.
 

Spoiler

You get a little bit but it's pretty much only in part 1 which is already available on the tor website.

On Shallan's past
 

Spoiler

I'm fairly sure we as readers have now been told basically everything. Tho I'm still not sure on the WOB stuff hinting at an unmades influence.
 

Spoiler

Spoilers for what that past is. It's a really nice twist that I really do recommend you wait for.

 

Spoiler

Once again I am warning you, it's genuinely my second most favourite surprise from ROW and oh boy are their a lot of good surprises in it. It's a lot better experiencing it than knowing beforehand.
 

Spoiler

Final Warning. I will be vague in what I say.
 

Spoiler

Shallan had a spren before pattern.

 

 

 

 

 

[yulerule]

So just my general Reactions as I read the book. 

 

Spoiler

Conflict between Vessel and Shard.
This kind of reinforces my theory, that the Shard would have been Passion, maybe if someone other than Rayse was holding it. Rayse may be the one twisting that power, or just using that power consciously for more evil purposes than if that power flowed naturally.

Taravangian's betrayal : I have the feeling it will not all go as he expects. And that he may not die as he expects.

Unseelie Lightweavers?

Honorspren are so picky.
I can see why theydislike lying Cryptics. And Highspren - maybe they dislike those even more now with the betrayal.
But inkspren?

Commenting but not reading anything here: INVENTION !!!!!

Whimsy
Mercy
Valor
... Are... Are we getting ALL shards name-dropped!!!???

Unlike Kaladin, who had gotten over it ages ago.

Oh! For Kaladin, treating injuries may not be enough, but dragging people out of dark places? That seems much better for him.
We were all doubtful of him being a surgeon, but this seems the ticket

(Also, Invention MUST have a crazy cool magical system)

If they can't share skills, Where did the others' skills come from?

I mean, randomly pulling personalities from the ether that are arbitrarily skilled ... That's always OP
Nvm. There's a lot of pretense. She has seeds of skills.

So much Shard Lore! Odium, Mercy, and Ambition clashed.

Aw, Sazed stopped his infodump.

Hmm. I feel that Navani's mystery spren should be deducible by now.

Sazed. A sword? Why? That doesn't seem to be the obvious representation of a balance. Also, not Night...

Were they from other lands, like Azure? When did she realize that?

How do you betray a cryptic, anyway?

Graceful as an Edgedancer - language, phrases adapting

I like that vainglorious spren monster!

So sapient spren also attract emotion spren.

Do rhyshadium attract emotion spren?

Pattern !!!??? I'm a bit terrified now
Maybe it's not what it seems??

The power IS more dangerous than the mind? Then Odium is named true?

Only the Tenth Surge works?? Interesting...

Well, I think we know where Hoid's flute ended up...

...Wait a minute. I'm up to part 3, and where are the flashbacks?

Reverse Lashings are so close to Breathe Commands

Hmm...wonder who Renarin has in mind...

I'm slow! The Venli chapter when she meets Rlain, is when I realized the "chickens" the red and green birds are the psychic ones from Sixth of Dusk.

What does it mean when a Singer is devoid of rhythms?

Lifelight!!

Ooh, Jasnah has Fourth Ideal plate.

So if each Shard has light Honor--> Stormlight, Cultivation-> Lifelight, Odium, -Voidlight
And on Scadrial each Shard has a metal.
Then there can be Ruin-light
And Preservation -light
And we're familiar with Endowment-light:Breathe

Interesting: Eshonai has always been more susceptible to forms

Odium+Honor = War
Well that explains a lot about Roshar, and the Endless Desolations, doesn't it just.

Crying at the Maya scene. It was coming, one way or the other. I think a lot of people suspected that it had to be mutual. Still. Crying.

Familiar voice, not the Srormfathers.

Ooh, Dalinar. Accepted the words.

Oh-oh. I foresee trouble regarding the whole Champion thing.

!!!!!
Okay, I got spoiled, like a chapter beforehand. Still. Taravangian!!??
Really not sure how that's going to work out.

And what about the contracts?
Oh no, no, no.

Are you saying Taravangian is going to be worse!!! Because he's new and freshly minted?

Wait. Releasing ba-ada-mistborn-whatever may cure deadeyes?

Go, Venli!

Also. Chasmfiends. There's a twist. 

New allies all over the place.

No groups, each can decide, no sides, almost.

Oh - oh. Oh no. This. This is bad. Very bad. 

Well, at least now there's definitely more to play with in Shard grouping.

Edited November 17, 2020 by yulerule

[+Ptolema]

May have pulled an all-nighter to read, may have still ended up skimming because of poor focus. Every scene where Navani PoV basically mentioned sleep deprivation as a result of not wanting to researching... those were a mood. Anyway, I see we're spoiler tagging things in here, so...

Speaking of Navani...

Spoiler

As much as I agree her bonding with the Sibling was a bit of an easy conclusion, it's so hilarious and adorable how despite their arguing and the Sibling repeatedly claiming to not like Navani, they are so alike. The Sibling was like "Oh yes these mechanisms are complica-" and Navani just immediately understood them. The Sibling replying YES! really sold it.

On the topic of the Sibling

Spoiler

I feel like, in some ways, the Sibling is kind of child-like in comparison to Stormfather. Also, their name makes so much sense now with the confirmation that they're the child of both Honor and Cultivation. With how much focus went into the types of Lights and Rhythms on Navani's research, I feel like the Sibling's existence is mostly paving the way for the combination of Lights (Investitures?) to be explored even more.

And Maya...

Spoiler

I'll start by saying wow Sekeir really annoyed me. That was just plain rude. But Maya semi-defending Adolin at the trial (and quite possibly traumatizing every spren present) was one of the most awesome moments of the book. Even the smaller moments like her mimicking Adolin's motions and learning. Just all-around awesome.

Oh, and the deadeyes in general...

Spoiler

"We! Chose!". Maya dropping that bombshell huh. I'd seen theories here that the spren might have not actually been betrayed by every single one of their Radiants at once, so I'm not surprised, but still kind of stunning to see it be true. I feel like Maya's actions on the trial might actually improve the Radiant's chances at reconciling with the spren.

Oh, and Moash

Spoiler

I hate Moash. I mean, pretty sure everyone has at least once in their life read a Moash scene and been momentarily filled with unfathomable rage against a fictional character. But seriously, every time Moash shows up it's exclusively to make things worse. Moash shows up, what's the worst path this scene could take? The worst path this scene could take is exactly the path it will take, because Moash. Still kind of funny how he ran off when Navani bonded the Sibling, so the hilarity of Moash being repeatedly scared away by lights in this book is worth appreciating.

And Teft

Spoiler

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

And Leshwi

Spoiler

Yesssssssssssssssssssssssssss

And Raboniel

Spoiler

On one hand, she's so.... questionable. Even killing her daughter. But in the end, well. Her decision to die (permanently) was arguably one of the few deaths I've seen in fiction that actually seem satisfying and not in a revenge type of way? Just the fact that she didn't want to keep coming back. She even says she set her daughter free when she killed her. I think she just wanted to be free.

And Shallan's past....

Spoiler

So... Is Testament the same Cryptic that Adolin saw as a recent deadeye? But wow. Just wow. Shallan has two Cryptics, one is a deadeye. Oof.

And uh, Ishar

Spoiler

Did I misread that or did he try to bring spren into the Physical Realm? What O_o

I should probably go re-read all over again, not skimming this time, but I wanted to already start discussing this, oops.

[scottwo]

25 minutes ago, yulerule said:

Sazed. A sword? Why? That doesn't seem to be the obvious representation of a balance. Also, not Night...

 

He's talking about Wax, right? He isn't actually talking about a sword:

Quote

“I have begun searching for a pathway out of this conundrum by seeking the ideal person to act on my behalf. Someone who embodies both Preservation and Ruin. A … sword, you might say, who can both protect and kill.”

 

[Eternal Khol]

6 hours ago, Harkain said:

Also my new crackpot theory is that theirs a rhythm for ever permutation of combining the different shards.

Well, that would only make sense.

Rhythms are a Cosmere wide phenomena “that have a specific way of manifesting on Roshar”

Rhythms seem to be or are made by Investiture(i.e. different Investiture/Intent = different Rhythms) 

Investiture from different Shards can mix. Its not like only Shards who have settled together are capable of mixing Investiture

therefore, all Investiture(and “mixtures” of it) have a Rhythm

[DracostarA]

Quote

 

In truth, it would be a combination of a Vessel’s craftiness and the power’s Intent that we should fear most.

 

So I guess this line from Harmony's letter was foreshadowing of how dangerous a more capable Odium (Taravangian) could be.

[lordofsoup]

Invention! I guess we got all the shards at this point.  Thanks Sazed

Edited November 17, 2020 by lordofsoup

[ScadrianTank]

I enjoyed the book a lot, though I agree @Harbour that parts one and two were the best. Still, I enjoyed the Cosmere references, and most importantly Navani. Although, Dalinar's chapters in Oathbringer remain my favorite. Her discovering how to damage the soul was something I expected, doing it with magical antimatter was not. 

Spoiler

It opens up a discussion about Sazed and the Shard he holds.

Some things from my prediction text file that I find very funny, now that I finished the book.

• The Stormfather refers to someone other than Kaladin as "Child of Tanavast", possibly Leshwi.
• Shallan summons her plate before Kaladin.
• Shallan fully joins the Ghostbloods.
• Restares reveals why Heleran tried to kill Amaram.
• Navani invents a way to damage the soul with fabrials by mimicking Nightblood.
• Navani awakens the Tower, but it's different from how it was before.
• Navani becomes a Radiant.
• Szeth helps Navani somehow.
• Either Venli or Rlain dies by the end of the book.
• Taln has a lucid moment before/during the assault on the tower.
• Mraize name reveal.
• Ghostbloods have access to fabrial guns.
• Odium un-invests at least one of the Fused.
• Kandra worldhopper reveal.
• One of the smaller characters swears the Fourth ideal.

And the one that wounds me most because I wished it to be true so badly:

Dalinar catches something.

[yulerule]

I think it's a bit ironic. Kal: Ok, fine, I can't save everyone. Level up: Windspren Shardplate armor that can fly around and protect more people

Edited November 17, 2020 by yulerule

[Hulaine]

So much stuff...! For now I'll settle on a question or two (just read it all in one sitting so I mightve missed it)

 

What happened to Radiant (Shallan only mentions to Mraize she absorbed her and veil was the only one (i think) who came out of her as she confronted Formless, which was the last time I remember seeing her)?

What happened to Zahel after his spar with Kal?

Someone in an earlier comment mentioned a Thaikadar reveal, when/where? All I caught was that he wasn't native to Roshar, not who he was at all?

 

[Raphaborn]

 Theory: Whimsy, Mercy and Valor are on the same planet/system. Harmony talks about them in the same epigraph, and their letters add up to 16.

 

 

 

 

[Zedseayou]

9 minutes ago, Hulaine said:

So much stuff...! For now I'll settle on a question or two (just read it all in one sitting so I mightve missed it)

 

What happened to Radiant (Shallan only mentions to Mraize she absorbed her and veil was the only one (i think) who came out of her as she confronted Formless, which was the last time I remember seeing her)?

What happened to Zahel after his spar with Kal?

Someone in an earlier comment mentioned a Thaikadar reveal, when/where? All I caught was that he wasn't native to Roshar, not who he was at all?

 

Radiant is still there I think; not quite finished healing

I don't think Zahel is shown again after his Kaladin chapter. I assumed he went with the expedition since you'd think he'd be relevant if he'd stayed at the tower

Thaidakar gets described (cosmere spoilers):

Spoiler

as "having an affliction similar to the Heralds" by Kelek, implying cognitive shadow (and probably being bound to one system)

as known by Wit as the "Lord of Scars" in Shallan/Mraize's last conversation

these two point fairly convincingly at Kelsier

 

Edited November 17, 2020 by Zedseayou