Toaster Retribution Posted January 28, 2017 Report Share Posted January 28, 2017 As far as I have understood, Marsh is keeping himself alive by using atium. Do we have an idea for how long this will work, and so, how long Marsh will stay alive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted January 28, 2017 Report Share Posted January 28, 2017 Well Marsh is quite young for the immortal standard, I don't think he need really too much atium yet and He may always ask Harmony for a new stock of Atium or to give him a Mistborn status (or gain a Medallion to use Cadmius to stay alive longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoolofwhool Posted January 28, 2017 Report Share Posted January 28, 2017 TLR made it a thousand years, so Marsh definitely has another seven hundred to go. However, I think it was stated or implied that TLR was approaching his limit, so even with enough atium, I don't think Marsh will reach his second millennia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cometaryorbit Posted January 29, 2017 Report Share Posted January 29, 2017 9 hours ago, Spoolofwhool said: TLR made it a thousand years, so Marsh definitely has another seven hundred to go. However, I think it was stated or implied that TLR was approaching his limit, so even with enough atium, I don't think Marsh will reach his second millennia. I thought that the WoB was that he might eventually hit a limit, not that he was particularly close yet? I'd think the limit would be when he had to spend all his time constantly Compounding, and given that he was giving most of the atium to the kandra to store in the Trustwarren rather than eating it himself, I don't think he was close to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoolofwhool Posted January 29, 2017 Report Share Posted January 29, 2017 6 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said: I thought that the WoB was that he might eventually hit a limit, not that he was particularly close yet? I'd think the limit would be when he had to spend all his time constantly Compounding, and given that he was giving most of the atium to the kandra to store in the Trustwarren rather than eating it himself, I don't think he was close to that. Possibly. It's hard to say, but my impression was that he was close to that limit. In any case, we don't actually know how much he compounded every day. He could've been compounding most of the time for all we know. That he was giving the kandra atium doesn't limit how much atium he had access to since he would've just taken it out of whatever atium he received before selling it to the nobles. In other words, he always received more atium than he would've even needed at a given point, and if need be, he could've just increased how much he got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cometaryorbit Posted January 29, 2017 Report Share Posted January 29, 2017 12 minutes ago, Spoolofwhool said: That he was giving the kandra atium doesn't limit how much atium he had access to since he would've just taken it out of whatever atium he received before selling it to the nobles. In other words, he always received more atium than he would've even needed at a given point, and if need be, he could've just increased how much he got. Well, atium burns pretty fast, and the Trustwarren - holding the majority of a thousand years' production - was not that big. It was burned up in a few hours by, what, a couple of thousand soldiers at most? So it would probably only hold enough atium for a year or so of constant burning. Therefore, TLR could Compound atium faster than the Pits produced it. So given that atium was still going to the Trustwarren in TLR's last year of life, I think he wasn't anywhere close to the limit yet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoolofwhool Posted January 29, 2017 Report Share Posted January 29, 2017 47 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said: Well, atium burns pretty fast, and the Trustwarren - holding the majority of a thousand years' production - was not that big. It was burned up in a few hours by, what, a couple of thousand soldiers at most? So it would probably only hold enough atium for a year or so of constant burning. Therefore, TLR could Compound atium faster than the Pits produced it. So given that atium was still going to the Trustwarren in TLR's last year of life, I think he wasn't anywhere close to the limit yet. Fair enough. Moving back to Marsh, his limit is clearly nowhere near how far TLR has gotten since he doesn't possess anywhere near the same amount of atium, also his power is hemarlugically derived, from a reused spike I think. Since his atium allomancy would be considerably weaker than TLR, even with enough atium I don't think he would be lasting past two millennia, and one feels doubtful. Although, if it's correct that allomantic strength has to do with how quickly you burn your metals for the energy release, then his strength wouldn't actually be relevant until he approaches burning near to all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects Posted January 29, 2017 Report Share Posted January 29, 2017 Bear in mind that this kinda deals with one of the more RAFO laws of the Cosmere. Which means it's all speculation Becoming a Shardholder stops the spiritual aging process. Attaining the Fifth Heightening does the same. Given Sazed's scholarly nature and the sheer amount of power he holds, I can see Sazed trying some tinkering to help with Marsh's spiritual clock once Trell is taken care of and the Atium cost becomes excessive. Its not a guaranteed solution, but if Sazed reaches a point where he considers Marsh an indispensable asset to have around, he may want a solution. Mayhaps more Atium(Ruin) to keep Marsh going and slowing the Spiritual clock with the power of Preservation to keep himself in Harmony? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+hwiles Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 So here's my take on it: Marsh is using Investiture to slow (stop?) his aging process. It's been hinted that he's probably compounding and storing Youth to do this which, for lack of a better answer, is a good enough explanation for me. Atium is a form of purified Investiture from Ruin. Sazed holds virtually all of Ruin's Investiture as far as I understand and both likes Marsh and seems to want to keep him around. Ergo, at Sazed's discretion, he could fuel Marsh's compounding directly through Ruin's mists or shardpool or whatever. When Preservation fuels Vin's allomancy, she doesn't just not have to burn metals, all of her allomancy is super-charged. If Sazed fueled Marsh's "atium burning" directly, he could actually compound youth even faster than if he were burning pure atium beads all day every day. This does however introduce a new limit: Eventually, Marsh would have to burn so much atium to compound youth in such a short time that he would probably ascend and become the holder of Ruin if Sazed allowed him to. Alternatively, becoming highly Invested seems to greatly slow the aging process throughout much of the Cosmere (pretty sure in the FE it's mentioned that Inquisitors can live for upwards of 200 years). When Marsh compounds youth, he might be adding a disproportionately large number of years to his life compared to an ordinary person. For example, I would expect that a person with an unaided natural expected lifetime of 1,000 years to be able to add more years to their life than a person with an unaided natural expected lifetime of 100 years if they burned, compounded, and stored youth using the same mass of atium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 10 hours ago, hwiles said: (pretty sure in the FE it's mentioned that Inquisitors can live for upwards of 200 years) I'd like to see a source for this, becasue all I remember is a WoB that is wasn't a guarantee. Some lived longer, some burnt out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asterion137 Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 I think the end of the cosmere cycle will be in less than a thousand years in-world time, so Marsh is pretty much set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 31 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said: I'd like to see a source for this, becasue all I remember is a WoB that is wasn't a guarantee. Some lived longer, some burnt out Yeah, Inquisitors tended to live longer, not sure if we ever got an estimate on how long exactly. As for TLR, well Marsh had one bag of Atium and it kept him going for 300 years, pretty sure TLR was a long, long way off of hitting the limit And Marsh is good for 'a while' so not much to go on there but I'd say it's relatively likely that he'll either attain immortality through other means or secure a steady supply of Atium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+hwiles Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 8 hours ago, The One Who Connects said: I'd like to see a source for this, becasue all I remember is a WoB that is wasn't a guarantee. Some lived longer, some burnt out Still looking, but off the top of my head, Kar, an inquisitor in FE, gets a short POV scene where he expresses joy that, after two centuries of politicking, the inquisitors are being given authority over a branch of TLR's bureaucracy. He doesn't explicitly state that he's been alive for that entire time, but it seems deliberately implied. It's right before Vin charges the throne room I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+robardin Posted February 3, 2017 Report Share Posted February 3, 2017 Never mind how much longer Marsh can prolong his inhuman existence... How long until he lets his hair grow back? The Steel Inquisitors in the Final Empire were always described as having "clean-shaven" heads and intricate eye tattoos, but so did your standard non-Inquisitor obligators. It was just part of the obligator dress code, the tattoos being an indicator of rank. Yet hundreds of years after the fall of the Final Empire that he worked as hard as anyone to destroy, we see Marsh when interacting with Marasi - throwing back his hood to reveal his spiked eyes, ancient obligator tattoos, and a clean-shaven head and face. So who's making Marsh shave now? He may not be able to remove the tattoos, but shaving is something you have to actively do to yourself. Unless part of the set of hemalurgic changes wrought in becoming made an Inquisitor lose body hair or something? (Or just froze your body in the state it was at the time of the transformation, and the Inquisitors were just all made from obligators?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted February 4, 2017 Report Share Posted February 4, 2017 11 hours ago, robardin said: So who's making Marsh shave now? He may not be able to remove the tattoos, but shaving is something you have to actively do to yourself. Unless part of the set of hemalurgic changes wrought in becoming made an Inquisitor lose body hair or something? (Or just froze your body in the state it was at the time of the transformation, and the Inquisitors were just all made from obligators?) It's possible Marsh see himself as an Inquisitor (for the old times) and everytime he taps F-Gold He is restored to his hairless status. It's also possible the Inquisitor at all has not hairgrow...because if I don't remember wrong, all the Ruin's Inquisitors are bald...and I don't think Ruin cared about their look Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Extesian Posted February 4, 2017 Report Share Posted February 4, 2017 On 01/02/2017 at 3:07 PM, Voidus said: Yeah, Inquisitors tended to live longer, not sure if we ever got an estimate on how long exactly. As for TLR, well Marsh had one bag of Atium and it kept him going for 300 years, pretty sure TLR was a long, long way off of hitting the limit And Marsh is good for 'a while' so not much to go on there but I'd say it's relatively likely that he'll either attain immortality through other means or secure a steady supply of Atium. Only WoB I'm aware of is this, which makes it sound like Inquisitors don't normally live that much longer unless their specific powers (eg atium compounding) allow it. Quote CHAOS How long is the lifespan of an Inquisitor. BRANDON SANDERSON It depends on the powers they're given. Some burn up quickly, and others are extended. In general though they do tend to have slightly longer lives. Since Marsh has the missing bag of atiums he's going to be around for a while. I figure compounding atium is extremely efficient, TLR could only get it as it formed so he wouldn't have had much in the early days of the FE. On the hair issue 1 hour ago, Yata said: It's possible Marsh see himself as an Inquisitor (for the old times) and everytime he taps F-Gold He is restored to his hairless status. It's also possible the Inquisitor at all has not hairgrow...because if I don't remember wrong, all the Ruin's Inquisitors are bald...and I don't think Ruin cared about their look Don't hemalurgic constructs have a general issue with hair? We know kandra can't grow it, only incorporate it into themselves. We know koloss are bald (I believe?). We know inquisitors are comparable to koloss so I figure Marsh doesn't grow hair because it's not possible for anyone with a certain level (or type) of hemalurgic alteration. quoth Brandon... Quote an allomancer turned into a koloss would keep their powers because, as you'll recall, an allomancer turned into an inquisitor retains their powers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted February 4, 2017 Report Share Posted February 4, 2017 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Extesian said: Don't hemalurgic constructs have a general issue with hair? We know kandra can't grow it, only incorporate it into themselves. We know koloss are bald (I believe?). We know inquisitors are comparable to koloss so I figure Marsh doesn't grow hair because it's not possible for anyone with a certain level (or type) of hemalurgic alteration. quoth Brandon... I don't know...Kandra has not problem with hair for an Hemalurgic reason. Simply theit body control (inherit from the Mistwrath) is only flesh modification...they didn't have neither bone or fur ability. About the Koloss, honestly I never considerate the fact...In my mind I see the koloss with hair, but I don't think it's never stated somewhere. So probably you have right...the koloss are bald. It's have to note that Koloss are deeply twisted by Hemalurgy...while Inquisitors are less physical twisted. PS: Notice we see people with three Spikes without any kind of hair problem...so unless the fourth Spike cause the hairloss, I can't see a direct correlation Number of Spikes->Hairlost Edited February 4, 2017 by Yata Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Extesian Posted February 4, 2017 Report Share Posted February 4, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Yata said: I don't know...Kandra has not problem with hair for an Hemalurgic reason. Simply theit body control (inherit from the Mistwrath) is only flesh modification...they didn't have neither bone or fur ability. About the Koloss, honestly I never considerate the fact...In my mind I see the koloss with hair, but I don't think it's never stated somewhere. So probably you have right...the koloss are bald. It's have to note that Koloss are deeply twisted by Hemalurgy...while Inquisitors are less physical twisted. PS: Notice we see people with three Spikes without any kind of hair problem...so unless the fourth Spike cause the hairloss, I can't see a direct correlation Number of Spikes->Hairlost Hmm there's a couple of references, not sure if there are others showing it's not all them. From Well of Ascension chapter 19 Quote Sazed magnified his view even further—gripping the tree tightly to overcome the nausea—and got his first good look at a koloss.It was a creature of smaller size—perhaps six feet tall. It was man-shaped, with two arms and legs, though its neck was hard to distinguish. It was completely bald. Quote This largest creature’s skin was pulled so tight it was beginning to tear. The hairless blue flesh had ripped around the eyes, at the edges of the mouth, and around the massive chest muscles. But yes hemalurgic spikes by themselves don't seem to do it. There must be a level that inquisitors and koloss are at that is based on type or extent of spiking. Edited February 4, 2017 by Extesian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted February 6, 2017 Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 @Extesian I found a WoB while I was searching another WoB (as happen everytime): Quote QUESTION Are Inquisitors bald? BRANDON SANDERSON Yes. QUESTION Are they bald by being bald, or do they shave their heads? BRANDON SANDERSON They shave their heads. Hemalurgy does not automatically make you bald. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Extesian Posted February 6, 2017 Report Share Posted February 6, 2017 54 minutes ago, Yata said: @Extesian I found a WoB while I was searching another WoB (as happen everytime): @Yata thank you, good work. I'm a little disappointed I thought I was onto something interesting, but always better to know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saikyk Posted March 9, 2017 Report Share Posted March 9, 2017 Just want to point out that Sazed has the power to bring people back to life, he just has to do it before they reach the Beyond, so I'm pretty sure it won't be a problem for Marsh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hulaine Posted March 25, 2017 Report Share Posted March 25, 2017 Reading down the forum, especially with the WoB, I get that I've overlooked this "Atium keeps inquisitors alive" thing, but I don't really get why? Surely TLR would have created them with a gold misting/health storing feurochemist, to get the same affect as Miles Hundredlives? How does burning (or whatever they do with) Atium keep an inquisitor alive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samaldin Posted March 25, 2017 Report Share Posted March 25, 2017 9 minutes ago, Hulaine said: Reading down the forum, especially with the WoB, I get that I've overlooked this "Atium keeps inquisitors alive" thing, but I don't really get why? Surely TLR would have created them with a gold misting/health storing feurochemist, to get the same affect as Miles Hundredlives? How does burning (or whatever they do with) Atium keep an inquisitor alive? The answer is actually quite simple, Atium stores youth so by compounding it you can get younger than you were before.you started compounding (TLR stayed alive by using this exact method) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oversleep Posted March 25, 2017 Report Share Posted March 25, 2017 Alternatively Marsh could buy some Breath on black market... Of course getting enough for 5th Heightening is a lot but then again he has a lot of time to do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weltall Posted March 25, 2017 Report Share Posted March 25, 2017 @Oversleep I wonder what the atium-to-Breaths exchange rate is on the Worldhopper Mercantile Index? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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