Anniversary Game: In the Re-Wake of the Koloss

[ostrichofevil]

Lord Tekiel was tired of Eoladdin's mad rantings; who listens to a madman?  Today, they would end, for a hanged man cannot talk.  He wasn't sure about his suspicions about Eol, but he would not put up with a man who accuses his fellow villagers without reason.  He hummed as he nailed his message to the tavern door:

 

Vote to lynch Eoladdin today!  Our village cannot handle one more Lunatic, and who knows when another might come along?  So, let's make room.  Eoladdin's trial will be held in the town square, before the end of the day.  If he does not argue his innocence, then he deserves to hang!

  -- Posted by an anonymous glass merchant.  Buy Tekiel Glass today; your wine and windows need it!

[WeiryWriter]

I also received one of the PM's and he also explained that it was an icebreaker when I questioned him about it.  I received it at 5:22AM Eastern Time.

[Seonid]

I'm a little worried about the bandwagon going on about Eolhondren. It seems like he has sent out a lot of questionable messages, but I'm just worried about a day 1 lynch with so little information. All we have is a night 1 threat kill (Vron was an experienced player who would certainly have been dangerous to the Spiked. Even Wilson said that he was high on her threat list. Not that I'm saying that to accuse Wilson. I'm 95% sure that I can trust her. I'm don't 100% trust anyone, except myself, of course, but I don't expect that to carry over for anyone else.) So with that, and Eol's phishing, I'm not sure that this can give us a pattern. I mean, if he's Spiked, then all for the good. But if he's not, then we've killed a villager for no good reason and gotten no information out of it. Another point to consider is that we may have overrepresentation on the folks who have reported messages. We have no way of verifying whether they have actually received it or not, unless Eolhondren comes out and confirms/denies it. Some folks may have been misrepresenting themselves in order to push for a bandwagon on an innocent person.

 

Unless...Meta, is it legal to invite new folks to old PM's in order to prove that they happened, or is that a misuse of the site resources? My gut says it would be a misuse, but I'd like to make sure.

 

[EDIT:] Color!!!!

Edited January 4, 2015 by Seonid

[the winter system]

That's why, despite the fact I'm convinced E's an Eliminator, I'm not voting for him.

[little wilson]

Eolhondras only has 2 votes on him, by my count. Far from a bandwagon. And they're well-deserved votes anyway. He's had plenty of time to get on and defend himself, but he hasn't said anything. That tells me that this is all going according to plan. He wants to die. The only thing that really makes sense in this case is for him to be a Spiked Tineye. Tineye is a passive role, so I don't think it's one you can turn the metal off and stop people from sending PMs. He's fairly useless to his team as long as he's alive, outside of the numbers that he adds. But sending all of those messages was a way of potentially getting a bite, so they can take out the other Tineyes (or at least one of them). And from what I know, there were a couple who bit. So the Spiked know who at least one of the Tineyes is. His gambit succeeded, and he has no reason to defend himself because he knows he can die and it won't be in vain.

 

Surprisingly though, despite the wide range of messages sent, there's a fair bit of information that's been gained from this. But I do agree that there's a misrepresentation on who was contacted. I expect out of the people who've claimed to have been trolled by Eolhondras, there are at least one or two Spiked.

 

Anyway, though...short RP. I didn't have time to write anything else, since this game became a crazy mess in the last few hours.

 

Wilson entered the tavern and dropped onto a barstool, exhausted. She waved at Satrams for a drink before dropping her head onto the bar. She’d been running around non-stop all day, delivering messages and she was pretty sure she couldn’t move another foot.

 

She blamed the saboteurs. Her job was easy before they came along. Deliver the occasional message, which gave her plenty of downtime to spend however she wanted. But now? She didn’t even know what free time was anymore....

 

All of them need to die, she thought. Sure, it was selfish reason she wanted them to die for, but she couldn't care less. She missed that calm life where she never experienced things like the barracks being on fire, or the alchemist dying (even though he hated her and used urchins to do her job. As if urchins were better than she was. Hmph), or the rumor of a koloss army approaching. She shuddered. She'd rather go the way of the alchemist with an ax in her skull than face an army of koloss. Although, she thought morbidly, I'd still probably end up with an ax in my head either way....

[Lord Pifferdoo]

If anyone wants to RP off of the mini scenario I set up earlier, that is totally fine with me.

[Metacognition]

Unless...Meta, is it legal to invite new folks to old PM's in order to prove that they happened, or is that a misuse of the site resources? My gut says it would be a misuse, but I'd like to make sure.

You're entirely right, you can't add new people to PM conversations that have been ongoing! That's basically using past information to help confirm yourself and is against the Fair Play Rules.

 

 

 

Tineye is a passive role, so I don't think it's one you can turn the metal off and stop people from sending PMs.

 

This is also correct. Tin is passive, like pewter, in the fact that it doesn't have to be turned on or off. You do have to activate the message part though (obviously). 

Edited January 4, 2015 by Metacognition

[Renegade]

Rent's Rant of the Day: "Lynching"

 

Lynching is the whole point of this game.  We can't just cower and fear and hope to not make a mistake, and let that stop us from lynching people.  In LG 6, it took 6 or 7 cycles before the Villagers pinned down a single Eliminator, but the mistakes that some people (and horses ) made gave them a lot of information in the end.

 

The same should go here.  We have more than the usual amount of information available on Day 1, with the Night coming first.  A lack of information should not hinder our voting actions.  And honestly, with the Eoladdin shenanigans and PMs available, we should have a relatively good baseline amount of information at the moment.

 

Perhaps many of you wish to go for the “follow the cop” strategy, just waiting until someone has been Seeked, and then jump on that.  But this game isn’t played by the Nights, it’s played by what is said in the thread, and by the votes.  If everyone were silent, and we just had Night cycles, we’d almost inevitably lose.  We’d have no plans, no potential suspects to go off of, practically nothing to do.  The lynch is the focus of the game, and by not participating in it, you’re missing out on a huge part of the game.  A mislynch can actually give us a lot of information, but only if there are a lot of people who have bothered to vote.  And right now, it doesn’t look like that.  In fact, I’m sort of shocked and worried by all of the people who haven’t decided to post today.  (Which is about… a lot, by my last count.)

 

On another note, I’m not sure what to do about Eoladdin right now.  If he is indeed a Tineye (there’s a big "if" there), then it means that we might not want to lynch him, as it would force the Spiked to waste a kill on one of their own if they wanted to ultimately stop communications.  Alternatively, if we do lynch him, then we could figure out if he’s a Spiked or not, and figure out who to suspect/not suspect, and go from there.

 

As for my own vote… until further notice, I’m putting my vote on Hero.  I know that Kas already placed a vote on him, and ten people are probably going to accuse me of “bandwagoning” onto Hero, but I definitely agree that there is something odd about someone refusing to vote, especially with the informational advantage of us starting on a Night turn.  Plus, it was said rather early in the cycle, and seemed almost like an easy way out of the Day’s lynch actions.  I wouldn’t say it points directly towards being a Spiked, but it’s not going to help us that much.  (Although, it’s much more helpful than the lurkers/inactives have been… come on in, enjoy the bloodbath!  It’s fun! )

 

Edit: Retracted vote

Edited January 4, 2015 by Renegade

[Seonid]

I'll bite on that, Pifferdoo. I can never resist the chance to do some good RP.

 

Senn started as the Baron screamed. That was a disturbing sound, that one. Disturbing enough that he didn't pay attention during the rest of the speech. Some sort of recap of the events of the past day. As if any of them didn't know that themselves.
 

The last sentence caught his ear, though. What on earth were these 'official question-asking rules?'

 

"Well beg your pardon, Lord High Muckety-Muck. Who gave you the right to determine how we can ask questions and how we can't? Only ask your questions in the official way. Only talk to the council. Only this, only that. Sounds like a good way to never find anything useful. Well, says I, I think that we should throw out your precious question asking rules."

 

There was a stunned silence. 

 

"And as for the matter at hand. We have the case of the mysterious Eoladdin, who seems to be going around and asking everyone if they're a Tineye. I thought he was just mad, needed an asylum, not a lynch, but Wilson thinks differently, and she's quite persuasive. What say ye?"

 

On other matters, that is disturbingly good reasoning, Wilson. I'm...going to have to think about that for a while. But suffice it to say that I am finding Eolhondren more suspicious after that. I just need some time to weigh it out and decide whether that outweighs my worries about a potential mislynch this early. (As I posted in my above). I'm not going to join in and vote yet, but I'm going to leave the option open. The fact that Eolhondren hasn't defended himself, despite being on (although there is no way to know if he just left himself logged in...) may well be telling.

 

You're entirely right, you can't add new people to PM conversations that have been ongoing! That's basically using past information to help confirm yourself and is against the Fair Play Rules. 

 

I thought so. Thanks for confirming that!

 

[EDIT:] Ninja'd by Renegade! That's another persuasive argument. Would you guys stop forcing me to reconsider my opinions!   

Edited January 4, 2015 by Seonid

[Eolhondras]

I'd like to apologise for my tardiness in terms of replying to the ongoing events here. While this has all unfolded I have either been asleep or at work. As has been noted, I have been online for brief periods though out the day, and I have been a pretty terrible employee as a result. Every time I had a spare second, I would take a look at the forum, just enough to keep up with what's happening, but not enough time to respond. (Please before you question my IRL commitments, I believe lying about them would be against the etiquette policy running on the site.) So again, apologies, and I will post my actual response soon.

[Mckeedee123]

 

My gut says that Eolhondras isn't spiked. The chance of a set of messages like this actually bearing fruit seems fairly low and painting a target on yourself for a low chance of finding a tineye seems a bad plan. True it seems a bad plan whether he is a villager or a spiked, but if he was spiked I think some of the other spiked would have pointed out the flaws in his plan. Unless they're trying to wipe out the tineyes altogether to prevent PMs, which is a difficult plan to pull off given that there are probably 2-3 tineyes and even then the odds that he would get all of them are terrible. I just don't see the tradeoff of a spiked being worthwhile to them this early in the game. I think it is more likely that he is a villager and this was a poorly thought-through plan. I dunno, I'm not convinced. I think the best case for the spiked with this plan would be that they discovered the identity of a single tineye in exchange for losing one of their members. If Eolhondras is a spiked tineye that would change the equation somewhat. Even then it seems like a rather brash and risky action. My feeling at the moment is that he isn't, but I'm less than certain.

 

True. If Eoldren is an eliminator, then it seems like a pretty dumb strategy to be sticking his neck out by sending out a bunch of scary-looking PMs.

 

At the same time, the nature of his inquiry is suspicious. As far as I can tell (and admittedly, I haven't finished reading through LG1 yet), it's better for the tineyes to remain anonymous. The only people who would even benefit from knowing their identities are the eliminators. It's nothing concrete, and I''m sorry, but I'm putting a vote on Eolhondras for now.

Edited January 4, 2015 by mckeedee123

[Araris Valerian]

As best as I can tell, the current vote count is as follows:

Herowannabe (3): Renegade, Kasimir, Araris Valerian

Jain (1): Wyrmhero

Eolhandras (3): Mailliw73, ostrichofevil, mckeedee123

Dom (1): lord Claincy Ffnord

 

I don't think that killing Eol at this point is an imperative, mostly we have a decent reason to think he is spiked but since he doesn't have a dangerous role (if we are right) then killing him will waste our lynch for one day. I think that it is probable that the spiked have at least one emotional allomancy role, so if they want Eol to die then we would have to go out of our way to save him. We still have around 24 hours to discuss (right?), so for now I will put a vote on Herowannabe for the following reasons:

1: Not voting is close to as unhelpful as not talking at all. You could at least have said that you would wait and see before you placed your vote.

2: Eol, if we are correct about him, is probably going to die if there is a tie vote involving him. I think that we can spend our lynch in better places.

3: Eol has said that he can give us some info on why he did what he did

I still think that Eol is a perfectly viable lynch target. When his vote is close to one of an innocent, the spiked could (again, under the assumption they have a soother/rioter) just force the vote onto the villager and we would learn nothing. I guess what I'm trying to say is that by then end of the cycle we need to have a clear idea of who we are going to lynch so that nobody plays tricks with us.

[Seonid]

I'd like to apologise for my tardiness in terms of replying to the ongoing events here. While this has all unfolded I have either been asleep or at work. As has been noted, I have been online for brief periods though out the day, and I have been a pretty terrible employee as a result. Every time I had a spare second, I would take a look at the forum, just enough to keep up with what's happening, but not enough time to respond. (Please before you question my IRL commitments, I believe lying about them would be against the etiquette policy running on the site.) So again, apologies, and I will post my actual response soon.

 

I actually believe that. About the IRL commitments, that is. It would be completely unsporting to lie about them to gain sympathy in thread (or in a PM, or whatever). But while that might justify your lack of defense, I'll wait until I actually hear your defense to make a decision on your innocence.

[Eolhondras]

First, the facts.

 

Players contacted:

 

-          Lord Pifferdoo

-          Joe

-          Mailli

-          mckeedee123

-          Winter Cloud

-          Peng

-          Seonid

-          dominic1994

-          Jain

-          Ash

-          Newan

-          Jasnah

-          ostrichofevil

-          Sart

-          Unodus

-          Weiry

-          Macen

 

All messages were sent between 9:11 pm and 9:22 pm AEST. Anyone who says otherwise is lying.

 

Players not contacted:

 

-          Kas, Wilson, Ren, Hero, Claincey, Wyrm

I find you all incredibly intimidating and did not want to butt heads one on one.

-          Arais, dowanx and sarcomere I think may all be spelt incorrectly on my list, and I couldn’t find them in messenger.

 

As to why I did what I did.

It’s no secret that a lot of value is placed on peoples past behaviours, habits and their general game styles, and this becomes a big advantage to the more experienced players who have been playing with each other for some time. What I did, and I loath to call it trolling or phishing, was more an experiment. I wanted to see how people would react to edgy or sensitive stimulus, and what would be more sensitive than an accusation about roles. In doing so I could gauge them as a player, and continue profiling people and lessen the gap between more experienced players and myself, as a newer member.

 

It has already been pointed out that expecting to ferret out a tineye or any other pertinent information would be foolhardy, and I completely agree. I no way do I trust or plan to act on acting upon any information in the replies to my experiment, as I respect anyone who plays this game far too much to believe that they would give me anything usable. However the tone and the wording or any other indications I can find about someone’s personality will go down in my notes and I hope, help me later on.

 

Perhaps some may see my actions as foolish, suspicious or erratic, and if I die for doing something outside the expected, then so be it.

 

Any questions please ask away.

 

 

 

 

On a side note, Assuming 3 tineyes is a large amount, and that one may be a mistborn, I think it would be pertinent to try and track the mistborn use of abilities, given Meta's method for determining which power they get, and how that makes it slightly more unlikely that they will have the same one twice in at least a few cycles.

[Mckeedee123]

Couldn't you have used a role that the eliminators wouldn't have been as interested in targeting? Like thug?

[Araris Valerian]

Well, my username is Araris Valerian, and I'm actually a little disappointing that I didn't get a message from you. I applaud your bravery to attempt something like this; its a really creative way to go about doing things, if you are doing what you say you are. My personal opinion is that it makes no sense for the spiked to suicide someone unless they are a tineye that they want to get rid of, which can wait until the other tineyes are dead and also would probably involve the suicidee going along somewhat with the plot. I would also like to point out that gauging the reactions of players would be as much or more helpful to the eliminators than to a villager. I do think that asking after a role that is important does more to figure out things than asking after a role such as being a thug. Unfortunately, the eliminators have probably been able to figure out a bit more about what roles people have now as a result of this.

[Eolhondras]

Couldn't you have used a role that the eliminators wouldn't have been as interested in targeting? Like thug?

Wouldn't have worked as well, as its not as important. 

Also the messages after the night cycle gave me plausibility to have connected message to player and hence player to role. This takes away part of the 'trolling' aspect, and so I am more likely to receive a serious answer.

 

Edit, Internet seems to be playing up. I'm sure a Mod would be kind enough to remove the double post?

Edited January 4, 2015 by Eolhondras

[Ashiok]

Well, this would be a logical scheme to pull if you were a sTineye. The Spiked don't want any tineyes to survive, so in the beginning they may have told you to suicide, getting info in the process. Later, they might have realized that a tineye would be good to hold onto as a role villagers wouldn't to kill, so they told you to clarify.

 

This makes more sense to me than you being innocent and profiling us all through these minuscule exchanges. I responded in what, two sentences? You didn't continue the farce after that, explain your (imaginary) logic, and actually accumulate an idea of how I behaved. You didn't even respond. And that, Eolhondras, is why I'm debating voting for you to die. While your little trick was creative, the inept execution leads me to wonder. However, this is a strange thing to pull, especially Day one. After night two, actual conversations could be held over role accusations, and you could've gotten strong profiles.

 

Here's how I would've done it. I believe you would amass better reactions this way. Tell Wilson/Claincy that you're going to do it. Do the thingy on night two, when there's more info, except only contact one person at a time. A while in, tell them that it was just a test, to profile them, and that they shouldn't tell anybody about it. Rinse and repeat. As I was saying, creative idea, but the execution fell short. Innocent or not, it is pretty suspicious.

[Newan]

I think that what Eolhondras did was gutsy.  I'm in favor of players trying out new strategies.  Also the spiked probably wouldn't want to suicide their tineye until the good tineye is dead.

[A Joe in the Bush]

I actually applaud What Eolhondras has done. He made a clever new Strategy to figure people, and it worked. I believe he's innocent. ​Yup. I'm ignoring the Homework I'm supposed to be doing.

I still don't have any suspicions, so I'll withhold my Vote. We still have another 24 hours or so.

 

EDIT: Bloody White Text showed up Black.

Edited January 4, 2015 by The Only Joe

[Unodus]

Sorry about missing yesterday's window, I was on a flight (going back home after Christmas holiday x.x)
Back now, though- just finished reading everything. 

 

 

So, can someone explain to me the context of lynching? This is my first game, so I don't know all the terms... (I don't think it was mentioned in the rules or ettiquette :V )

 

Odustren lounged at the back of the town hall, out of sight- and trying his best not to be noticed. Yesterday had been a blur- not only had the thief gotten away, but an ominous fire had struck the barracks. He had spent the rest of that day in the bar, trying to get to know the locals- and then helped the villagers with the wells upon their request.

His situation already seemed grave- when put in a dangerous scenario, people would side with people they trusted. Being a newcomer, especially without any obvious possessions or profession, would make it difficult for Odustren to defend himself if suspicion against him built momentum.
"Guess I'll just have to solve this murder before the real saboteurs get away..." 

And so, Odustren announced his questions to the hall

• "Why would the 'saboteurs' target Vron?" (We know now that he was a soother- could this be further evidence that one of the saboteurs is a Tineye?)
• "Where did the killers get the Axe and the poison?" (The poison could have been bought from Vron himself (as he is an alchimest), and the axe could have been from the weaponsmith. Are there records of people buying such items...?)
• Why did Vron have a spike, and why was he sending it to Luthadel? (or are we not supposed to know that...? .3.;)
• How could the killer set such an elaborate trap within Vrons home? (The killer must have had unadulterated access to the house, and had knowledge of Vrons secret cache)
• Clearly, the fire was partially a distraction so that the killer could get away- who doesn't have an alibi for helping put out the fire? (The trap must have taken some time to set up. Who wasn't helping at that time?)

Perhaps trying to solve the mystery using the RP won't work, thinking about it... x.x 
Thats all I got, though- I'm not really sure what to look for... .3.;

Well, I guess I'll just jump on the bandwagon and vote for Hero (sorry hero .~.)- but that may be subject to change over the next 24 hours if new evidence comes to light...

[A Joe in the Bush]

So, can someone explain to me the context of lynching? This is my first game, so I don't know all the terms... (I don't think it was mentioned in the rules or ettiquette :V )

• "Why would the 'saboteurs' target Vron?" (We know now that he was a soother- could this be further evidence that one of the saboteurs is a Tineye?)
• "Where did the killers get the Axe and the poison?" (The poison could have been bought from Vron himself (as he is an alchimest), and the axe could have been from the weaponsmith. Are there records of people buying such items...?)
• Why did Vron have a spike, and why was he sending it to Luthadel? (or are we not supposed to know that...? .3.;)
• How could the killer set such an elaborate trap within Vrons home? (The killer must have had unadulterated access to the house, and had knowledge of Vrons secret cache)
• Clearly, the fire was partially a distraction so that the killer could get away- who doesn't have an alibi for helping put out the fire? (The trap must have taken some time to set up. Who wasn't helping at that time?)

 

Lynching: Every Day Cycle, we all get one vote. We vote for who we think is evil. Whoever has the most votes atthe end of the cycle is Killed, and their role and alignment is revealed. Currently Hero is being Lynched.

 

The Spiked target Vron because he was an Experienced player. He's none to make long term plans, and he can piece together what the eliminators will do. It might also be an attempt to frame me.

 

Metacognition has stated that there won't be clues hidden in the write-up. That answers your last 4 questions, or at least negates them.

[Eolhondras]

Well, this would be a logical scheme to pull if you were a sTineye. The Spiked don't want any tineyes to survive, so in the beginning they may have told you to suicide, getting info in the process. Later, they might have realized that a tineye would be good to hold onto as a role villagers wouldn't to kill, so they told you to clarify.

Paranoia defined as: An unfounded or distrust of others.

 

I don't begrudge your suspicion, but I would simply highlight that anything can be seen Spiked plotting if looked at in the right light.

 

 

 I responded in what, two sentences? You didn't continue the farce after that, explain your (imaginary) logic, and actually accumulate an idea of how I behaved. You didn't even respond. And that, Eolhondras, is why I'm debating voting for you to die. While your little trick was creative, the inept execution leads me to wonder. However, this is a strange thing to pull, especially Day one. After night two, actual conversations could be held over role accusations, and you could've gotten strong profiles.

I had not counted on so much thread attention being brought to this so soon and so I would have a bit more time before the magnitude of my actions was well known. Obviously that was not a good assumption, but then hindsight is a killer.

 

That said, anything anyone says is an indication of their character. Short replies may not give me a wealth of knowledge about someone but they might provide a starting point. And how do you know if some of the others weren't more forthcoming? Understanding people is a never ending pursuit with no definite answers, but anything and everything helps so I will continue to pursue it.

 

Here's how I would've done it. I believe you would amass better reactions this way. Tell Wilson/Claincy that you're going to do it. Do the thingy on night two, when there's more info, except only contact one person at a time. A while in, tell them that it was just a test, to profile them, and that they shouldn't tell anybody about it. Rinse and repeat. As I was saying, creative idea, but the execution fell short. Innocent or not, it is pretty suspicious.

This is a learning experience, so thankyou for the advice. Again, in hindsight perhaps a bit more thought was warranted.

[Seonid]

After some reflection, I've become rather interested in this:

 

All messages were sent between 9:11 pm and 9:22 pm AEST. Anyone who says otherwise is lying.

 

 

I got one at Noon, New York time. 

 

Just in case anyone was wondering, 9:00 P.M AEST should be 5:00 AM EST (New York time).

 

Now, Eolhondras did say that Ash was one of the ones he sent the message to, so we know he's not lying about receiving the message. But, according to Eol, nobody received a message past 9:22 (which is 5:22 AM EST). So either Eol is lying about the times he sent to cast suspicion on Ash, or Ash is lying about the time he received the message.

 

Given that Wilson was using those times to see if Eol had sent messages before a certain interaction in a PM thread (a thread which I am not privy to), and that Ashiok was claiming a message sent after the real time (according to Eol), this could mean that Ash could have been potentially lying to further cement suspicions on Eol.

 

With this tangled web, I'm rather confused. I have no firm suspicions or accusations to make, just questions that I'd like answered.

 

At this point, I'm going to tentatively vote Ash to see if he has anything to say to defend himself. I'll be back on in the next few hours to see if he does, but I don't expect to be online after that until after the rollover to night, so we'll see if I'm able to retract this or not. If he does mount a reasonable defense, I may well switch my vote to Eolhondren. Depends on Eolhondren's reaction to this post, too.

[Kasimir]

Claincy, thank you for the response. I appreciate it.

I would add a note of caution to your alternative depicting "what Eoldren should've done", Ash. At this point, I have no particular reason to trust Wilson or Claincy, and I find it interesting that you're so willing to immediately trust them with information on what you'd do. (Note: I said that I have no particular reason to trust Wilson or Claincy--it does not entail that I necessarily also distrust them. Rather, I find myself in the position where I have neither reason to trust nor distrust them.) I merely note that I'm a little surprised to find you with such (seemingly) strong reason to trust another player, so early in the game.

(In particular, Wilson has often accused me of overcompensating in my paranoia towards her. This may be true; at the same time, I find early expressions of trust somewhat puzzling.)

The points of the weaknesses of Eoldren's approach, such as the questions of how he actually profiled them, or if it was useful, if it fit his professed plans, and that it might be a useful strategy for a Spiked!Tineye, are, I believe, well-taken. Those, I will acknowledge, are well-raised.

Myself, I admit I'm at a loss as to what to think. 'Phishing', as it were, isn't exactly a new strategy in this game--as Joe might very well know. (Those of you who are curious, see LG3--Gamma pulled the exact same trick, though a bit more fleshed out, on Joe in order to elicit a Spiked confession and to end the game.) I feel that it seems a bit risky as a strategy for the Spiked to do, even a Spiked Tineye. The plan could easily backfire: it's more risk than reward. At the same time, I've long learned that it's a dangerous thing to superimpose my preconceptions of 'sensible Spiked play' onto how Team Evil actually plays--these assumptions aren't always warranted.

To be very frank, I do not know what to think. Eoldren's plan is bold, and actually, a rather interesting move for a newer player, and on those grounds, if it is the case that he isn't Spiked, then I must applaud it. (It certainly beats hiding in the shadows and waiting for someone to contact you...) On the other hand, the qualms raised are genuine, and it seems somewhat ill-considered. And I still find myself with some reason to distrust Hreo, so I'm not keen to move my vote.

If possible, I'd like a response from Ash, as well.