Long Game 15: ...The Shards Themselves...

[Elkanah]

I'm almost caught up in the thread and will post more when I do. There is a lot of controversy surrounding those who haven't posted so I wanted to say I'm on, but I want to catch up before sharing my opinions.

[Elbereth]

No, I did not make it up. It's this song: 

 I was going to post it along with the rp, but I didn't have the time to find it.

 

I once sung it for a talent show.  

  

Ah! Cool!

I'm about to go to bed (just in time for everyone to start arriving). I ask that everyone, whether or not you were involved in any of this, to please post your thoughts of what's happened the past two days. I understand if you might be apprehensive about voicing your opinion because you have no interactions with any of the players in question, but every single players perspective matters to me and should be heard. Being silent only serves to benefit the traitors, as then we can't catch them in their lies if they're quiet and they have a much larger pool of lurkers to hide among. With that being said, here's the most up to date vote tally.

I'm responding! I don't have much to say, though.

I don't think Wilson is suspicious. Maybe that's just my newness speaking for me, but she feels completely honest.

I'm also not very suspicious of Adavantos, because he's probably posted twice as much as the next highest poster.

As for suspicions, I really don't know. I think Bridge Boy was more suspicious than Adavantos, when both were up for the lynch, though Bridge Boy hasn't said much since then. Stink is... I don't know. I don't particularly suspect him of being traitorous, but I'll still be watching him.

Also, I have no idea about the thing with pms and Mail. I wasn't part of any of that.

Got to go. I will edit more stuff in if I think of it later.

[Arrae]

It turns out I have more time than I thought, yay!

I have a few thoughts about this: 1, something seems fishy about the Wilson STINK thing. I feel like either someone is withholding info or there's some miscommunication, but not that both are eliminators.

2, Adavantos is being really active. I don't think he is an eliminator because of this, he's just being info grabby.

3, I read somewhere that Kipper and Wilson are really good at manipulation. I feel like Kipper is actively trying to seem friendly. "Still feel tainted by that bandwagon" calls conspiracy theory his baby, does a Tigger roleplay, etc. I don't know if this is grounds for suspicion, but I think it will be worth watching him.

Edit: I hate LG cellphones. They are horrible. I hate typing on a phone. I hate autocorrect.

Adavantos: If you are reading this, please go to sleep.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Arraenae

[Elkanah]

 

We can do all the things, you know. Maili's death was one lead. It isn't our only one. We still have yet to make sense of the information from the previous day, as I've already said. Remember all the discussion over the BB-Shallan lynch race? Are you, then, convinced by Bort? What do you think of Bridge Boy? What do you think of the discussion that has emerged since then? (Notice that by focusing on the emergent discussion, we are still taking a step back from focusing on hunting down the Traitor among those who knew of Maili's role.)

We can still discuss strategy: we can consider possibilities. For instance, I have a suggestion, and that is this: all Crew Surgebinders should send something to be put up in the next day's write-up. Repeat, attention all Crew, all Crew, Surgebinders should send something to be put in the next day's write-up, over.

 

I was thinking along the same line as Kas. We obtained a little new information and lost everything else we had spent roughly 36 hours discussing. I agree that Wilson and Stink both look very suspicious. I just don't want to drop everything before we've finished our first trial.

I would still like to hear more from Bort and Bridge Boy. Creccio has explained himself well enough to not be on my top list for now, but I'm still going to keep an eye on him

 

Amusingly enough, I'm considering revising parts of my theory. Looking at it all again, I now think that the results are either:
1. Stink good; Wilson bad
2. Both bad.
3. Neither bad.

And yes, my theory does depend HEAVILY on the idea of a Traitor Surgebinder. If you were a village Surgebinder, and did that, can you...not? Thx luv u <3

 

I'm afraid I don't have anything to add in the case of Wilson v. Stink as I didn't receive pm's from or about either. Everything for me has been hearsay, except what they both agree on. (which as far as I can tell is just that they both knew Maill was a hemalurgist and neither suspect Kipper). I'm kind of in the camp of neither being a traitor because if they are both traitors nominating each other it seems like a really risky move, and both have had good arguments for why the other is bad.

[Kipper]

<snip>

Re: 3, I don't know where you got that information from (off with his head!). It would seem that my reputation has vastly eclipsed my actions. I've been evil once (not counting the first run of this), and I didn't do so well there. Don't recall ever manipulating anyone >>. All I remember about that game, really, is being very depressed near the end because everyone was protected...

I do feel tainted by the bandwagon.

It is my baby. First gimongous theory post I've done.

I typically do one roleplay per game (RP just is not my thing), and it's usually nonsensical like that. I plan to do more with Tigger, and I hope to do more RP in general in future games.

I am trying to seem friendly! I am friendly! Shoot me an out of game PM sometime (seriously, do) and you'll see just how friendly I am. Being extroverted doesn't hurt. Also being good at Scattergories. <-- Probably doesn't help much, but it can't hurt.

See, little things like that Scattergories aside all give you a good impression of me, and make you less inclined to suspect me, unless you're extremely self-aware (which I'm sure all of you are). And why do I want to seem suspicious?

I also abuse ellipses and parentheticals, just want you to know >>

Might as well bare my whole soul...I sometimes pick my nose.

@queensteph Tunnelling is when you have this laser-like focus on another player, and you don't stop to consider anything else, because you are so utterly convinced of that player's guilt. Everything that that player says will just confirm your suspicions (confirmation bias), and you may even begin to suspect those who defend the player.

For a good example, see Deathclutch tunnelling me in MR9, I think Cycle 5. I'll provide a link in an edit.

Hey everyone, note that I originally got in trouble with Deathclutch for a post like the one above, where I noted some possible motivations that everyone else generally leaves un-talked about. I'm trying to create a pattern of me posting these things now, so it doesn't seem unusual anymore.

[Kipper]

For anyone who's interested, the tunnel that ended in my death by Coinshot began here, and was largely based on my post here. It's a good read, especially if it makes you not suspicious of me.

Edit: Sorry for doublepost. Can a mod fix this?

Edited November 9, 2015 by Kipper

[DeathClutch19]

I am now a reference. This is amusing.

 

edit: I wish they would continue on with the game in MR9.

 

I thought my death might help the town progress but neither team is doing anything since I died. The skaa didn't even kill. Again.

Edited November 9, 2015 by DeathClutch19

[Kipper]

As amusing as a machine can find something, at any rate.

END LINE

We should probably not comment on on-going games here...

[DeathClutch19]

Yeah my bad. I'm just frustrated at the pace of MR9. I mean compared to this game..... I just thought about that let's not compare that actually.

 

TO THIS GAME. I'd also like to hear more from Bort and Bridge Boy. Any suspicions you have, what you think about the death, the lynch, anything.|

Edited November 9, 2015 by DeathClutch19

[Arrae]

Re: 3, I don't know where you got that information from (off with his her head!). It would seem that my reputation has vastly eclipsed my actions. I've been evil once (not counting the first run of this), and I didn't do so well there. Don't recall ever manipulating anyone >>. All I remember about that game, really, is being very depressed near the end because everyone was protected...

I do feel tainted by the bandwagon.

It is my baby. First gimongous theory post I've done.

I typically do one roleplay per game (RP just is not my thing), and it's usually nonsensical like that. I plan to do more with Tigger, and I hope to do more RP in general in future games.

I am trying to seem friendly! I am friendly! Shoot me an out of game PM sometime (seriously, do) and you'll see just how friendly I am. Being extroverted doesn't hurt. Also being good at Scattergories. <-- Probably doesn't help much, but it can't hurt.

See, little things like that Scattergories aside all give you a good impression of me, and make you less inclined to suspect me, unless you're extremely self-aware (which I'm sure all of you are). And why do I want to seem suspicious?

Gah I'm developing paranoia someone call a therapist I'm suspicious of everyone and I'm seeing things help someone's coming to murder me!

 

I know that that might be your natural state of friendliness and I might just be overreacting to it, and that's why I'm not voting for you. I don't know you well enough to compare your normal level of friendliness to your current level of friendliness. 

 

I will try to shoot you an out of game PM at some point, though.

[queensteph]

I would still like to hear more from Bort and Bridge Boy.

 

I second that motion.

I plan to do more with Tigger, and I hope to do more RP in general in future games.

@queensteph Tunnelling is when you have this laser-like focus on another player, and you don't stop to consider anything else, because you are so utterly convinced of that player's guilt. Everything that that player says will just confirm your suspicions (confirmation bias), and you may even begin to suspect those who defend the player.

For a good example, see Deathclutch tunnelling me in MR9, I think Cycle 5. I'll provide a link in an edit.

Hey everyone, note that I originally got in trouble with Deathclutch for a post like the one above, where I noted some possible motivations that everyone else generally leaves un-talked about. I'm trying to create a pattern of me posting these things now, so it doesn't seem unusual anymore.

I wish every post you did was a Tigger Roleplay   (not hating on your regular posts, but gotta love Tigger)

and also, thanks for explaining about tunneling I was so lost. 

[STINK]

Has Creccio told us much about his PM with Maw yet?

[Hellscythe]

Hey guys. I'm the new HI. That might be a little confusing by itself so here's the story.

 

THE STORY

So Deathclutch(Dylan) joined MR9 and wasn't able to play MR9 after his first post. So he didn't post for three days. He asked me to play for him because he was so busy and as his roommate and mafia player I thought it'd be pretty fun, and it was. So I(Nick) posted every post other than the original "Can I join the game?" post.

 

I asked the moderators and head administrators if it was ok to make a new account because Deathclutch(Dylan) wanted to play in the Heirs to the Final Empire game hosted by Wyrm. And with all the PM's in both games swooshing around I didn't want anything to get mixed up. He probably won't be playing Sanderson Elimination but having separate accounts would benefit both of us.

 

Please send all PM's to this account if you would like to PM me. Deathclutch is no longer playing SE or LG15 

(Only during night c'mon guys!) (I messed that up in both LG15a,b now!) (Sorry!)

 

So I made a new account with permission and now I'm here. Hey guys. I'm Hellscythe. The HI. Nice to meet you all.

Let's play some SE.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Hellscythe

[Creccio]

Has Creccio told us much about his PM with Maw yet?

 

He was suspicious of me, I explained, we got to buddies and we both kind of claimed. Still, even after that I did not trust 100% his claim so I wanted more time to talk with him, he is now dead, so talking not needed.

[Bort]

Fun times, I wonder who this Creccia person is, I am plenty sure my name is spelled with an o at the end.

 

Anyway, some of the players here do know of why i did such things, and some do trust me, it seems you don't.

 

Now, i want to know before i say what I think, the reason why YOU think i did this... this will good food for thought

 

Oops. Creccia. Creccio. Better?

 

You're right, I don't trust you. Why? "I have my reasons, which I won't share, but all will become clear" - This is basically what you said to me in our PMs. How much dodgier can you sound?

 

Your evasions whenever someone asks you a question (Kas asked if my arguments had won you over. Your reply said nothing, and just asked Kas what he thought).

 

Even your explanations contain no information (see your above post about your PM with Maw for example).

 

He was suspicious of me, I explained, we got to buddies and we both kind of claimed. Still, even after that I did not trust 100% his claim so I wanted more time to talk with him, he is now dead, so talking not needed.

 

How was he suspicious? What did you explain? Did he share suspicions with you (besides yourself?)

 

Now, as for your initial comment, about how I think last day cycle's vote played out, it looked like this.

 

Lynch train starts forming on Shallan. You come along, add your vote, arguing for balance, and to force a tie to allow the (assumed) traitor feruchemist (it is feruchemist isn't it? The vote manipulator role, I mean) to work unchecked. Another dodgy moment from you I thought. Why would we want to allow the traitor feruchemist a chance to do anything unchecked is beyond me. We wouldn't have even gotten any solid information from it. All we would have seen is that someone manipulated a vote. I've been an eliminator vote manipulator in a previous game. For the first few cycles, I manipulated votes, yes, but I did it in a completely random way to keep myself hidden (worked for a few cycles, but then I made a silly mistake).

 

Then, along come others, and Shallan collects more votes. You retract your vote from Shallan, still claiming that a tie would be the best result, yet you do not add your vote to Bridge Boy to even up the numbers again until Ada suggests it, at which point you quickly do so.

 

Why, when arguing for a tie, would you hesitate there? Why not add your vote to BB as soon as it was off Shallan? At that point, it was still close enough that your vote for BB would have kept it as a tie.

 

Then, finally, during the closing minutes of the cycle, you retract your vote completely off Bridge Boy, so you don't vote at all. Now, you could argue that you removed it because having it there was pointless. By then Shallan had already accrued more than enough votes to be executed, so what was the point of voting for Bridge Boy? You're right. Of course, the inverse could also be asked. Shallan had more than enough votes to ensure her lynch, so what was the point of taking your vote off Bridge Boy? The only thing I can think of is that there was an Eliminator already voting for Bridge Boy, so you tried to retract your vote unnoticed in order that two of you didn't appear in the same voting list when they were used for future reference, something eliminators tend to be very careful about.

 

So, what single line deflections are you going to use this time, or are you actually going to answer these accusations?

 

Edit: Oh, nearly forgot... Also, by the sounds of it from what you've said about your other PMs, and from the PM we shared, you were fishing for roles. Granted, there are a few reasons why you might want to, but the obvious one is you were hunting for Kandra and hemalurgists.

 

I was thinking along the same line as Kas. We obtained a little new information and lost everything else we had spent roughly 36 hours discussing. I agree that Wilson and Stink both look very suspicious. I just don't want to drop everything before we've finished our first trial.

I would still like to hear more from Bort and Bridge Boy. Creccio has explained himself well enough to not be on my top list for now, but I'm still going to keep an eye on him

 

 

I'm afraid I don't have anything to add in the case of Wilson v. Stink as I didn't receive pm's from or about either. Everything for me has been hearsay, except what they both agree on. (which as far as I can tell is just that they both knew Maill was a hemalurgist and neither suspect Kipper). I'm kind of in the camp of neither being a traitor because if they are both traitors nominating each other it seems like a really risky move, and both have had good arguments for why the other is bad.

 

 

@Elkanah: What do you want to know? I shared my suspicions earlier in the thread. They haven't changed much since then.

 

Yeah my bad. I'm just frustrated at the pace of MR9. I mean compared to this game..... I just thought about that let's not compare that actually.

 

TO THIS GAME. I'd also like to hear more from Bort and Bridge Boy. Any suspicions you have, what you think about the death, the lynch, anything.|

 

In case you hadn't guessed, I'm currently most suspicious of Creccio. After that, I'm currently looking at either Wilson or Kipper being an eliminator, but I don't think both of them. I don't have anything solid to offer, but I'm leaning more towards Kipper at the moment.

 

As for Maill's death, it wasn't me

 

I feel guilty for Shallan's death since, as the third vote on her, I feel it was probably me that cemented the lynch train. Maill, on the other hand, I haven't spoken to him, PM'ed him, and had no idea to his role. Unfortunately, I can't even advise on who I think was most likely to pass the intel of his role on to the eliminators, since all of my current suspicions are on the list of people who knew.

 

Captain, can we take everyone that knew of Maill's role, and push them out the airlock? We may lost a few loyalists, but it's pretty sure we'd get at least one traitor among them.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Bort

[Kasimir]

Lets do ALL the things.

 

Just to get this out there Kas, What do you think of both BB and Bort and their action up until now?

 

EDIT: I am going to go back and read their post, its like 6ish am or something over here so i might not come back for a while

Interesting. And your views?

I do have a question or two I'd like to ask BB. On the one hand, I can pretty much understand why he jumped on Alv: it's at least consistent with how he was when I GMed him (*cough* much enthusiasm, *cough*), so I'm rather willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on that. I stress it doesn't mean I trust him; it just means I do not have especial reason to flag him as extra-suspicious. I would like to know why you voted for Adavantos on Day 1, BB, as well as for a bit more excavation of your reasons for trusting STINK.

 

With regard to Bort, I'd honestly need to think more and look through his posts again before I form a judgement. I'm especially wary when it comes to Bort, because I simply didn't catch on to his being an Eliminator the last time we played together [LG12.] Someone else did; I just did what they told me to and poisoned him. I had similar issues when spectating QF9: could not tell that Bort was evil. So seeing as I seem to have a bit of a blind spot where Bort is concerned, I feel the need to actually be very much awake/aware/non-exhausted

 

But what about you, Creccio? Unless I'm mistaken, you seem to spend more time pressing people for their suspicions and opinions than being forthcoming with your own. (It might, one could argue, be a good way to appear active and a member of the Crew without having to actually commit very hard to a position that could come back to haunt you later in the game.) Quid pro quo, mate. What've you got for us?

 

I will leave my vote on Araris; less because of suspicion of STINK since the issue is now so muddled I could flip a chull, and more because I do want an answer from Araris about that slip of reasoning. I should also note I am at least pleased to see STINK becoming more forthcoming.

 

As a warning, I should note that I am not likely to be back on before the cycle ends. I've gone several days with wrecked sleeping patterns (as you might recall from my 'October' slip earlier this Shift...) and today was a long day for me. If I want to be able to put together my thesis report and maritime piracy paper, I need more sleep and a fresh/clear mind rather than an exhaustion-fogged one.

 

So, see you guys on the other side...

[Bort]

Ooh, I feel honoured. The mighty Kasamir, forced to actually think to decide if I'm an eliminator or not. Does it hurt, Kas?

[Amanuensis]

Posts 1-84 Summaries

 

Kaid: 1 “First” 13 Asks Adavantos what the method to his madness was (reference to end of N1) 24 Responds to Kasimir saying his post was hasty; understands why he might seem suspicious but does not like the way it feels.

 

Kipper: 2 Off topic comment. Jokes that Wilson is responsible / bloodthirsty. 7 Claims he found out Mail’s role within the last hour of the game from a player other than him. Votes for Stink who was said to have acted suspiciously after learning Mail’s role. 18 Provides his own time line for info flow according to his knowledge 27 Points out that there is an additional possibility; neither Wilson or Stink are evil and he is the traitor. Says that because of how late in the turn it isn’t likely he could have gotten the order changed. 35 Updated list of timeline of Mail’s reveals. 75 Revises theory that either Stink is good, Wilson is bad, both are bad or neither are bad

 

Adavantos: 3 Expresses confusion from write up. 5 Says he will review PMs but remembers a player who said they found a Hemalurgist and another that said Mail claimed to them. 8 Asks for Kipper to elaborate on Stink’s behavior. Asks Wyrm to clarify if this kill was a traitor or Mistborn.

 

Kasimir: 4 Long RP followed by questions; did Mail role claim, to who, and how many do we have left? 12 Wants to create a list of people who knew Mail’s role and create a map of how the info flowed. Points out Creccio, Wilson, Kipper and Stink. 16 Votes for Kaid for being nonchalant. Says he will vote for Stink if he won’t defend himself. Asks Wilson why she outed Stink as a forger and told him Mail’s role to begin with. Asks that anyone else who knew Mail’s role to come out. Tells all to practice PM safety from now on. Expresses doubt that Mail was a fear kill, for both Wilson and Alvron are generally higher priority and it’s well known that Adavantos was gathering information and making plans. Reminds everyone that this isn’ the only subject to discuss; we still have to the D1 lynch to figure out. 19 Kas explains he mentioned Cow because he was called out for telling others to practice PM safety D1, which was obviously not followed. Says he is slightly frustrated after hearing about all the role claims. 23 Expresses confusion and frustration. 32 Theorizes that it was a traitor!Surgebinder who left the message and guesses they may have an Awakener and Feruchemist as well. 56 Confirms he didn’t want to know what Wilson had to say because of being consistently for operational security. 67 Long post regarding his case against Stink and potentially Wilson 69 Affirms to Stink that it’s nothing personal, just what he’s thinking 78 Votes for Araris for saying that Stink is a valuable contributor to the thread (active vs contributive). Asks Adavantos to explain the method to his madness. Suggests the Forged Kandra not show themselves. Asks to be Forged.

 

Wilson: 6 Responds to Kipper’s joke, saying she doesn’t remember killing Mail but apologizes. 10 Explains in depth how Mail’s role was revealed to Stink and he acted excited because it was the first claim he heard, which contradicts an earlier statement where he knew a Forger. 15 Timeline of info flow. 20 Explains she outed Stink maybe being a Forger as it was relevant to the situation. 28 Points out Stink’s contradictions; one, alludes to being a Forger and does not correct Wilson when she assumes he is, two, expresses joy that he finally learned a player’ role, three, denies that he is a Forger in thread. 39 Points out the mistakes in Steph’s last post. Says if it was a loyalist Surgebinder then it could have just been a joke, which is common (I made a similar joke in QF10 with a can of spray paint after an off topic discussion regarding sentient objects that think they are Wilson). Votes for Stink because he thinks it’s very unlikely a real Forger would have claimed to Wilson and that it more likely they are both traitors. Explains she told Kipper what happened with Stink because she trusts him and someone needed to know. 46 Explains that it’s not that no one would trust Stink, it’s that he had done nothing within the first 24 hours to warrant it. Mentions it makes sense that people role claim to Adavantos as he put himself in a position that he would be the natural person to role claim to 54 Explains that she has good reason to trust Kipper but cannot reveal it (I have the same information but still reserve my doubts, hence why I had the Kandra I knew scan him) and since Kas didn’t want any extra info Kipper was the only one she could go to. 58 Explains that Kipper didn’t figure out her role until the end of N1 (after reviewing this information I know know too, as Kipper told me he learned of another role at the same time as him learning the Hemalurgist). Insists that the Forger that contacted Stink is most likely a traitor, as otherwise there is no other reason to buddy up with someone that quick.

 

Stink: 9 Brings up that Wilson was the one who told both Stink and Kipper and that she finds him hard to read and thus must be dangerous to the town. 14 “If Wilson is suspicious of me; there isn’t much to do” 17 Asks Kasimir why he mentioned Cow in the same sentence as PM safety. 21 Says he is not a Forger. 26 Mentions that multiple people know he didn’t claim Forger. Explains to Kas that he figured out Mail was a Hemalurgist because of Wilson’s explanation. 33 Confirms he knows a Forger. Explains that he was just happy to be able to do something useful for the crew when he learned of Mail’s role. 38 Says he’s been trying to keep the identity of the Forger a secret to keep them safe. Also says that the Forger is the only one who trusted him (a lie as I told him that I would be investing my faith in him this game, but probably doesn’t think I trust him because I didn’t tell him my role). Explains what he did and why he did it. Asks if people want him to name names 40 Says that its mean to say no one would trust him and that he doesn’t accuse others of that 42 Reminds Araris that he voted to create a tie 44 Continues to defend himself 47 Continues to defend himself 49 Won’t reveal specifics for fear of releasing the Forger’s identity 51 Says he forgot the original intent but at the end left it because they were trying to keep a tie 53 Mentions that Wilson and Kipper have a weird PM thing that happens every game 55 Relates Wilson’s trust for Kipper developed similarly to Stink’s and the Forger’s 60 Continues to defend himself 62 Says it was intentional as to keep people guessing about their identity 64 Reminds him that everyone but Mail claimed no role to him so there was no info to be had 66 Explains that he only told the Forger two no roles (does this mean that you didn’t reveal Mail’s role to them? Because that info is critical right now) 68 Says he has no reason to defend himself because Kipper says he created a plan to make himself suspicious 79 Doesn’t know what to say to defend himself because Wilson and Kipper have said everything regarding his involvement for him 84 Quotes Creccio’s reasoning for the last minute vote retraction

 

Wyrm: 11 Says it was a traitor kill; if a Mistborn, metal will be mentioned in some way.

 

Cow: 22 Acknowledges Kasimir was right and withdraws his comment from D1.

 

Ripple: 25 Offers possible explanations for what happened. Votes for Wilson, asking how her beginning the lynch train on a player who posted only once at the end of the first day was helpful to the crew. Asks why there was a message on the bathroom wall 71 Thinks that Wilson’s certainty of Stink’s role is suspicious

 

Mailliw: 29 RP regarding his death.

 

Biggoron: 30 Answers Ripple; Surgebinders can leave anonymous messages in the write-up.

 

Paranoid King: 31 RP post, votes for Kipper for his involvement in the Shallan Debacle and because he attempted to pry information from him by warning PK of his death,

 

Queensteph: 34 Claims she didn’t use PMs much and thus doesn’t know any roles. Expresses her opinions on the Surgebinders motives (crew!Surgebinder trying to put suspicion on a player they think is evil, traitor!Surgebinder trying to put suspicion on a player who is good or make it seem like that’s what they’re trying to do to protect a fellow traitor from suspicion). 37 Mistakenly adds that Stink could have been a Kandra who found a Forger. Suggests an alternative that Stink could just have lied about knowing a Forger (I am inclined to agree with this; I believe he wanted to gather info from people and this was a sufficient lie. Not inherently evil, but suspect) 52 Asks why Wilson trusted Kipper.

 

Creccio: 36 Says he never revealed the identity of the Hemalurgist (told me she found one but not who it was). Says only Wilson and Stink would use that for harm measures (ignores Kipper). Votes for Stink for being both involved and unreadable. 43 Reiterates that it is unlikely a Forger would roleclaim to Stink N1 45 Suggests Stink call out the claimed Forger. Says there are many players that are more trustworthy that would have been told. Mentions a PM debacle that cements Stinks guilt in his mind. 48 Asks what Stink did to get the Forger to trust him 61 Comments on the fact that Stink referred to the Forger as a female and a male in different posts 63 Mentions that the Forger could easily be using Stink as a proxy for info 65 Continues to doubt the Forger’s loyalty 70 Continues to ask the Forger to come out 82 Alludes to players who trust him and asks Bort to say what he thinks the reason for his last minute vote retraction is. 84 Agrees that this is what he said

 

Araris: 41 Votes for Stink for bandwagoning on the Bridge Boy vote day 1. Retracts vote because he doesn’t want another bandwagon to occur. 50 Quites Stink’s vote from D1 where he voted for Bridge Boy not to create a tie but to save Adavantos 72 Advocates that we wait before killing either Stink or Wilson since they have been frequent contributors

 

Elbareth: 57 Responds to Kas from the previous night, expressing that she had not realized the fault in PK’s plan until Kas brought it up himself. Asks the HI to post how many Hemalurgists contacted him. Asks how many Mistborn there could be and expresses confusion that neither of them made an attack. 75 Thanks Lopen for clearing up why the Mistborn didn’t kill

 

Arraenae: 59 RP with a confused tone; says she won’t be available the second half of the turn so will not be placing a vote.

 

Lopen: 73 Says he is least suspicious of Creccio and most suspicious of Stink. Mentions that likely the Mistborns didn’t kill anyone because otherwise that would have essentially random but says they have hit a Voidbringer. Affirms that it doesn’t make sense for a traitor Wilson and traitor Surgebinder to have been involved in the anonymous message due to lingering suspicion from the Shallan Debacle. 80 Calls out the 13 players that at that point in time had not yet said anything and asks to be Forged as well.

 

Spaghetti: 74 Believes anonymous message to be of town and possess little meaning. Agrees that Wilson should be scanned tonight. 76 Off topic banter with Kipper

 

Bort: 81 Is suspicious of Creccio and Bridge Boy due to PM conversations. Asks Adavantos what Creccio’s reasons were for the last minute vote retraction. Votes for Creccio for being a suspect in both events.

 

Orlok: 83 Says he will post more later on due to being busy with real life.

 

---

 

So, for the sake of being organized, I had some italisized commentary in paranthesis. I will now list them in bullets in case you don't feel compelled to read through the first half of every player's post summaries.

• I have the same information about Kipper that Wilson has (the reason she trusts him)

• I now have learned Wilson's role from a combination of info Kipper shared to me in a PM and a comment made by Wilson

• Stink claims that he only told the Forger the identities of two roleless; does this mean they were not aware of Mail's role? If so that rules them out as evil, hence why he might still be protecting their identity

• I have a theory that Stink is not in contact with a Forger at all, but lied about that to phish for information. This, however, is not inherently good or evil. Though I never gave him any identities, I had been discussing with him all the roles that had been claimed to me. It wasn't until a few hours after he displayed sadness that no one role claimed to him that he began asking people if they wanted to be Forged. I am basing this assumption on the fact that he likely asked others around the same time that he asked me. While it is possible a Forger claimed to him, I am inclined to believe he became envious of the progress I was making and wanted to become a part of all the plans in his own way. I could be wrong about this, but this is the personal read I have gotten on the situation.

Anyway, upon reviewing all of the information I have at my disposal, I am more convinced of Creccio's guilt for the following reasons.

• Initially I had ruled out that Creccio was evil because I was convinced the Feruchemist who changed the vote to Shallan was a traitor. For that reason I decided to reveal my role in order to obtain his. He only gave me vague hints on what it might be which really didn't rule out anything but Hemalurgist, Voidbringer and Surgebinder.

• Mail approaches me that he exchanged roles with another player, who claims to be a Mistborn - I later learn that this player is Creccio. I then ask Mail to inform the Mistborn that I want them to kill a particular player - as I was, at the time, convinced that he was the traitor Feruchemist because another person approached me with proof that he had been in a PM several times between the time Shallan posted and the turn's end

• I then send that player a message asking who they were PMing at that time. They tell me it was an OOG PM with phattmer. Another message later they bring to my attention that phattmer and Shallan are brother and sister and that they share the same computer. He suggests its possible that phattmer was evil and so that's the reason he voted for Shallan with a plan to have a fellow traitor join in later to ensure her death so that she couldn't accidently uncover his alignment

• Convinced that this player is lying I do not intend to remove the order for the Mistborn (Creccio) to attack them

• During a conversation with another player, I mention that I am fairly confident I found the traitor Feruchemist responsible for Shallan's vote change and that I have put the kill order in. The same player than admits to me, in a rather lengthy paragraph, that they were the Feruchemust who changed the vote on Shallan, but affirms that he is not a traitor and suspects that the traitors don't even have a Feruchemist, because why else would they not intervene?

• I then remember that the only reason I trusted Creccio to begin with because it didn't make any sense to me that a traitor would stick their neck out to mess with a vote like that when they knew the kill would not be tied with their Feruchemist's influence

Keep in mind that I am leaving out a few more significant details about this turn of events in order to protect the identities of the players involved, so if while you read this I am leaving your involvement out that means I am trying to protect you, not trying to mislead anyone.

Also, Orlok, know that I intentionally left out a few of the names of players that sent me PMs and that I sent PMs too, as well as made up a few to throw you off because I had no reason to trust that you weren't a traitor trying to find critical roles to hit. I am not fond of lying to people - especially when I'm on the side of good - but until I confirm someone is 100% good I will not share with them everything else I risk putting the lives of others in danger.

Also, the player/role I used to bribe that Mail was a hemalurgist out of Stink was Creccio/Mistborn, as at that point in time he was at the top of my probably evil list and I was confident he was lying anyway. The fact that he didn't make a kill at all last night while he had multiple people convinced he was a Mistborn seems extremely off-kilter with the things he was telling me in our PM.

I should also mention that a real Mistborn approached me, immediately saying that they will not be using their kill that night as they have no idea who is evil and don't want to risk making a mistake. I agreed that was for the best - and because I wanted to see if the other one would follow through with my request - which they did not.

 

EDIT: TEMPORARILY RETRACTED VOTE FOR JOKE ON PG 11

Edited November 9, 2015 by Adavantos

[phattemer]

I can't do a long post right now, but I should be able to in ~5-6 hours. I am voting for Wilson, mainly because I don't think the Shallan lynch could have happened without at least one Eliminator involved, and also partly for the reasons other people have stated.

Edit: autocorrect

Edited November 9, 2015 by phattemer

[STINK]

The forger was unaware that I knew that Mailliw was a Hemalurgist.

[Amanuensis]

So then unless anyone else claims that Mail told him his role or that they were aware someone else knew it, then it absolutely had to be one of us five. That or the HI decided to betray us, but I will give them the benefit of the doubt due to how much evidence we have that suggests otherwise. With that being said, given that three out of the five players were both instrumental in Shallan's death and knew Mail's role, I am far more convinced that it has to be one of those three. I have said this in many games before and I will say it again. I do not believe in coincidences. I am most convinced the traitor is Creccio, but Wilson follows close second and Kipper takes third. I would not be surprised if Kipper is playing both Wilson and I for fools, but this is where I stand for the time being.

 

Also, phattmer's vote on Wilson has effectively made me more convinced of his guilt and less convinced of hers. But this may very well be yet another eliminator ploy to make us trust Wilson, like with the anonymous message.

[Bort]

I'm pretty certain that between Kipper and Wilson, there is only one eliminator if any at all.

 

Both are highly experienced players, so I doubt they would both go and post the same thing, at the same time, both voting for the same person. Or, at least, they wouldn't unless they had some kind of devastating plan.

[Kasimir]

Ooh, I feel honoured. The mighty Kasamir, forced to actually think to decide if I'm an eliminator or not. Does it hurt, Kas?

Was going off after reading a paper on whether we can commit dignity harms against the dead, decided to pop on, only to see this...

Hey, Jabba? I have a nomenclature advisory for you, here

And I do want to say just a little about this because man, I can't even take a month's break off the games before I come back and start getting hit by this osik >>

Dude, I'm a mid-range player on Wilson's scale for a reason. So that's not really much of a triumph for you, y'know  Fact of the matter is, I tend to be a liability to my team no matter which side I'm on, in part because I'm so storming paranoid. (You have Wyrm to thank for that...) If anything, it's less about being unable to read you, and simply that I'm always going to second-guess my judgement, to be extra-paranoid dealing with you precisely because I didn't see your allegiances that first time.

 

I'm very much a 'fool me twice, shame on me' sort of person, and it shows in how I play. That's why Wilson got so ticked off at me when I almost killed her in MR4, just because I couldn't forgive myself for that one mistake I made in getting Meta lynched and absolutely refused to make another. That let Macen exploit my paranoia and had me almost lynching our Surgeon and revealing him, in fact.

 

Upshot is I've never forgiven myself, and I will always be paranoid. I know it's just a game, but I can't stop being hard on myself for it anyway. That you have fooled me before just means I'm gonna be extra-paranoid when it comes to you, so that actually trying to get a read on you becomes an exercise in balancing paranoia and my tendency to over-compensate.

 

While I might've deflated that moment of triumphal ribbing, can't say I'm too sorry, my bearded friend

 

Kind regards,

-Kas the Paranoid.

 

Edit: Going to sleep for realz. Please do not disturb. Hell hath no fury like a sleep-deprived uni student.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Kasimir

[Amanuensis]

Stink (1): Kipper (1), Creccio (1), Wilson (1)

Kaid (0): Kasimir (1)

Wilson (2): Ripple (1), Adavantos (1), Kipper (2), phattmer (1)

Kipper (1): Paranoid King (1)

Araris (1): Kasimir (2)

Creccio (2): Bort (1), Adavantos (2)

Ripple (1): Wilson (1)

 

To the Feruchemist that admitted to me their role but promised they did not get involved with the Shallan Debacle, I am requesting that you change phattmer's vote to Creccio to prove to me that you were telling the truth.

 

EDIT: That is, unless, Creccio comes up with an adequete defense. I would rather avoid killing an innocent but right now I don't see how anything you've done up to this point has been helpful.

 

1. You have instigated roles out of other people while offering vague hints and blatant lies in return
   
2. Unlike Wilson, you hoarded the identities of the roles you found to yourself, which suggests to me that you are a part of a document as otherwise you would have probably confided in someone especially considering:
   
3. You kept telling me that you were more sure that you would die that night
   

Edited November 9, 2015 by Adavantos

[Creccio]

Oops. Creccia. Creccio. Better?

 

You're right, I don't trust you. Why? "I have my reasons, which I won't share, but all will become clear" - This is basically what you said to me in our PMs. How much dodgier can you sound?

 

Your evasions whenever someone asks you a question (Kas asked if my arguments had won you over. Your reply said nothing, and just asked Kas what he thought).

 

Even your explanations contain no information (see your above post about your PM with Maw for example).

 

 

How was he suspicious? What did you explain? Did he share suspicions with you (besides yourself?)

 

Now, as for your initial comment, about how I think last day cycle's vote played out, it looked like this.

 

Lynch train starts forming on Shallan. You come along, add your vote, arguing for balance, and to force a tie to allow the (assumed) traitor feruchemist (it is feruchemist isn't it? The vote manipulator role, I mean) to work unchecked. Another dodgy moment from you I thought. Why would we want to allow the traitor feruchemist a chance to do anything unchecked is beyond me. We wouldn't have even gotten any solid information from it. All we would have seen is that someone manipulated a vote. I've been an eliminator vote manipulator in a previous game. For the first few cycles, I manipulated votes, yes, but I did it in a completely random way to keep myself hidden (worked for a few cycles, but then I made a silly mistake).

 

Then, along come others, and Shallan collects more votes. You retract your vote from Shallan, still claiming that a tie would be the best result, yet you do not add your vote to Bridge Boy to even up the numbers again until Ada suggests it, at which point you quickly do so.

 

Why, when arguing for a tie, would you hesitate there? Why not add your vote to BB as soon as it was off Shallan? At that point, it was still close enough that your vote for BB would have kept it as a tie.

 

Then, finally, during the closing minutes of the cycle, you retract your vote completely off Bridge Boy, so you don't vote at all. Now, you could argue that you removed it because having it there was pointless. By then Shallan had already accrued more than enough votes to be executed, so what was the point of voting for Bridge Boy? You're right. Of course, the inverse could also be asked. Shallan had more than enough votes to ensure her lynch, so what was the point of taking your vote off Bridge Boy? The only thing I can think of is that there was an Eliminator already voting for Bridge Boy, so you tried to retract your vote unnoticed in order that two of you didn't appear in the same voting list when they were used for future reference, something eliminators tend to be very careful about.

 

So, what single line deflections are you going to use this time, or are you actually going to answer these accusations?

 

Edit: Oh, nearly forgot... Also, by the sounds of it from what you've said about your other PMs, and from the PM we shared, you were fishing for roles. Granted, there are a few reasons why you might want to, but the obvious one is you were hunting for Kandra and hemalurgists.

 

How was he NOT suspicious of me? Everyone is. That was the whole point of that thing. About why lt them go unchecked, That is why i retracted the votes and wanted to test something. Did it work? Not really. Did we learn something? Indeed... Is that something useful? Depends on how we handle that information.

 

Ada suggests the vote and I quickly do so in a sudden realization of the plan, it seemed good on the inside but i think it might have been rushed, so it might have not worked out as I wanted.

 

I removed it from BB to, again, test the weird hypothesis of mine, there were 2 outcomes and one of them did not come into fruition, the other one did.

 

Single line deflections? I am not going to write a poem to you about why or why not you should vote or not for me. If you trust me enough, great.If not, I will see you in another LG.

 

Oh, yea, i was fishing for roles, but, who in here involved in many PMs was not? I wonder why that came to shock you.

 

@Kas

 

I had seriously forgotten about that post... Do NOT post at 6am guys.

 

Bort I think is just suspicious for jumping on a bandwagon based on the feeling of "offness" from a player who is just wanting to help. I dont even know what felt odd from that post, and if it was just the "I am helping but I am really not" I wonder what happened to other posts that felt like that or the people that straight dint post.

 

BB... I just think is energetic and provided no useful information to the discussion. That is basically all. I want more real discussion from him, no much. 

 

And yes I instigate discussion and love to have to talk, its just How i play i guess.

 

 

@Adavantos

 

 He only gave me vague hints on what it might be which really didn't rule out anything but Hemalurgist, Voidbringer and Surgebinder.

 

And if you think really hard about it, of the choice I gave you, which one makes sense? I am not a Mistborn I can say that much. I gave Mail the same clue I gave you. He just assumed I was a Mistborn, the same way you are assuming I am right now. Why would I not go and do the order that was supposed to happen? Maybe because I humanly could not have done it.

 

convinced that he was the traitor Feruchemist because another person approached me with proof that he had been in a PM several times between the time Shallan posted and the turn's end

 

I keep conversations with many on the site, and I also have a ton of pm's with people other than SE users. Do you really believe I can't use the PM function without being suspicious? Well, that is a sad thing to see. I hope that If i die you remember who told you that, and pursue them.

 

 then remember that the only reason I trusted Creccio to begin with because it didn't make any sense to me that a traitor would stick their neck out to mess with a vote like that when they knew the kill would not be tied with their Feruchemist's influence

 

Then why not follow that statement? If i was a traitor and had I known the Feruchemist had already used their powers, does it feel sane for me to go out to such length and draw such suspicion for nearly no gain? Had I been a traitor and known that the ferruchemist had been involved, I would not have even posted in the last stages of that day.

 

Reconsider your choice. I can't possibly say anything else... or maybe i can? Let me know

 

Adavantos, my friend, you went from wanting people to be scanned and avoid lynching to wanting my head. I wonder who has the most clever ploy, you, trying to lynch a Loyal or the traitors helping you do so.

 

Said Feruchemist also contacted me and i believe half trusts me.

 

I am not a Mistborn. I am something else, and if I die today due to one play I made, so be it, but I hope we can find and weed out eliminators among us.

 

Edit:

 

Blatant lies... Who should I trust at this point? I gave you and Mail the closest hint to my role as i could and have been as honest as possible. If you want the rest come at me in a PM and lets talk. I do not condone Loyal murder in the ship

 

More sure I would die? Unless i was terribly out of sleep, I knew i would NOT die that night. Why kill me when Loyals such as yourself are doing the dirty work for them? 

Edited November 9, 2015 by Creccio