Mailliw73 Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 What is Lift? She can metabolize food directly to Stormlight, which I at first though might be an attribute of Edgedancers but Wyndle doesn't seem to know why either. Granted, he is an inexperienced spren, he says so himself. Lift also partially exists in the Cognitive realm and can touch spren. How is that possible? The only thing I can think of is if that was her boon, but I don't think she would be able to ask that as she doesn't know what the cognitive realm is. Dang, she's complicated. I can't believe she's only an interlude character, she has so many unanswered questions. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 The Nightwatcher doesn't always gives people what they ask for. She gives them whatever she wants to give them. I'm certain Lift's special "abilities" are a result of the Nightwatcher's, i.e. Cultivation's, meddling. The question is what exactly was her boon and what was her curse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mailliw73 Posted October 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 I just thought of this, what if, being a poor child, she asked to never be hungry? The Nightwatcher decided to not make her impervious to hunger, but allow her to change her food to Stormlight to aid her with her Surgebinding. I don't know how the Cognitive realm fits in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheese Ninja Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Chapter headings are Nan(2)/Vev(4), most likely for Nalan's appearance, and Lift being from Order 4 of the Radiants, the Edgedancers. Wyndle states at one point: “What did you ask for, when you visited my mother?” Which is probably a reference to the Nightwatcher. He also says "“Mother has given up on your kind,” he said. “I can feel it. She doesn’t care any longer. Now that He’s gone . . .”" Possibly Tanavast? So does Nightwatcher=Cultivation then? I don't know what she requested, but I think that her boon makes her Physical overlap slightly with the Cognitive realm. No good idea about her Curse yet. Oddly enough, she either doesn't know how, or is physically incapable of getting Stormlight through whatever an Edgedancers normal method would be. Mailliw73: I don't think it was intended as an aid to Surgebinding, I think that's more of a side-effect. The sequence of events makes more sense to me like that. She gets the boon, and then Ring realizes that would make her a good candidate for a Nahel Bond, instead of going solely off her personality as a basis. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Wyndle states at one point: “What did you ask for, when you visited my mother?” Which is probably a reference to the Nightwatcher. He also says "“Mother has given up on your kind,” he said. “I can feel it. She doesn’t care any longer. Now that He’s gone . . .”" Possibly Tanavast? So does Nightwatcher=Cultivation then? Yah this pretty much confirms Nightwatcher=Cultivation, not that I had any doubts before this. "He" is also probably Tanavast. It makes sense that Cultivation isn't thrilled with humanity since she could blame them for her "lover's" death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardlet Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Nice to have a bitter and depressed god. Especially going into a desolation so bad, it is called the Everstorm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Nice to have a bitter and depressed god. Especially going into a desolation so bad, it is called the Everstorm. I'm half-hoping some strong confident woman lectures Cultivation about how she doesn't need a man and that she should stop moping and do her goddess-ing job. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 People don't ask the Nightwatcher for anything. You go there, and if you strike her fancy, she gives you a boon and a curse - of her own choosing. She gives you what she thinks you deserve. It is perhaps a minor distinction, but it could explain how Lift could have gotten something she couldn't possibly think of. This being said, I don't like how we try to explain everything that's not a direct form of Surgebinding with the Old Magic. I don't have anything better to offer as an answer, but I think many of our theories will crumble because of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 People don't ask the Nightwatcher for anything. You go there, and if you strike her fancy, she gives you a boon and a curse - of her own choosing. She gives you what she thinks you deserve. It is perhaps a minor distinction, but it could explain how Lift could have gotten something she couldn't possibly think of. This being said, I don't like how we try to explain everything that's not a direct form of Surgebinding with the Old Magic. I don't have anything better to offer as an answer, but I think many of our theories will crumble because of this. Actually you do ask. That is implied to be a necessary part of the interaction. She just ignores what people ask for usually but people still have to ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mailliw73 Posted October 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Argent, I just think we don't know of any other viable options for how she got her special powers, or that the Old Magic is just the most prominent. I wonder if it maybe had something to do with her father. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 I misspoke. I meant to imply that you can't ask for anything specific - or, well, you can but it's irrelevant. Here's a supporting quote from Interlude 7: Baxil. Doesn’t work that way,” Av said. “It’s not a game, no matter how the stories try to put it. The Nightwatcher doesn’t trick you or twist your words. You ask a boon. She gives what she feels you deserve, then gives you a curse to go along with it. Sometimes related, sometimes not.” @WeiryWriter, agree that we mean (almost?) the same thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 @WeiryWriter, agree that we mean (almost?) the same thing? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11thorderknight Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 I read that to mean that the Nightwatcher judges you, in part, on what you ask for. Example: the guy that asked for help to feel his family during a famine got essentially what he asked for, and his curse was something that at first seems like a big deal, but ultimately was something that he got used to very quickly and didn't even notice - so, a temporary inconvenience that did no lasting damage. Unlike the guy with permanently numb hands, or Taravangian, or even Dalinar.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartbug Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 Well, any of those could be viewed as advantages, even for Dalinar. We really need more context before we can make judgements. Like, I can easily imagine Taravangian's intelligence being a boon, or the gift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windrunner Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 I've always thought of Taravangian's fluctuating intelligence as a boon and curse in one. Intelligent on some days and moronic on others. I want to say it was even confirmed, but if it was, I can't remember with enough clarity to find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Green Fire Posted October 23, 2013 Popular Post Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 (edited) I have a feeling that Lift just walked up into the Nightwatchers valley and asked to be "Awesome." Then, Cultivation laughed her divine chull off and happly obliged. Edited October 23, 2013 by Green Fire 21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 You know, I wouldn't be at all surprised if that were the case... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
askthepaperclip Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 I thought it was interesting that Lift mentions she "Captured" Wyndel with words. I think she might even have said "I said the words" or something like that. And then later, she repeated something in her mind that sounded an awful lot like a First Ideal. My thought is that the First Ideal of the Edgedancers are the words she used to "capture" Wyndel, which would make her more correct than I think he believes. Also interesting that Nalan/Darkness said, "You are an Edgedancer," not "you have the powers of an Edgedancer." I think this supports the idea that she has already said the words. I'm not sure about her boon, but I'm pretty sure Lift would consider Wyndel her curse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 Finding and saying the First Ideal doesn't make one a Radiant - it only puts them on the path. This makes me wonder, what benefit is there to becoming a full Radiant? There has to be something... Also, I believe that Nalan's remark can be reasonably interpreted as purely semantic. "You are an Edgedancer" could easily be equivalent, in his head, to "You would be an Edgedancer, if you were a real Radiant." This being said, while I disagree with the significance you assign to these words, I too believe that Lift has voiced the First Ideal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cem Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 (edited) I thought it was interesting that Lift mentions she "Captured" Wyndel with words. I think she might even have said "I said the words" or something like that. And then later, she repeated something in her mind that sounded an awful lot like a First Ideal. My thought is that the First Ideal of the Edgedancers are the words she used to "capture" Wyndel, which would make her more correct than I think he believes. Also interesting that Nalan/Darkness said, "You are an Edgedancer," not "you have the powers of an Edgedancer." I think this supports the idea that she has already said the words. I'm not sure about her boon, but I'm pretty sure Lift would consider Wyndel her curse She says the Words of the Second Ideal in the text. That's before Nalan calls her an Edgedancer. Though the First Ideal is not there so that means she said it before. Finding and saying the First Ideal doesn't make one a Radiant - it only puts them on the path. This makes me wonder, what benefit is there to becoming a full Radiant? There has to be something... Also, I believe that Nalan's remark can be reasonably interpreted as purely semantic. "You are an Edgedancer" could easily be equivalent, in his head, to "You would be an Edgedancer, if you were a real Radiant." This being said, while I disagree with the significance you assign to these words, I too believe that Lift has voiced the First Ideal. Each Ideal makes the Stormlight more efficient. He didn’t know what had happened to him, what had gone on with Syl and the words in his head. It seemed that Stormlight worked better for him now. It had been more potent, more powerful. But now it was gone, and he was so tired. Drained. He’d pushed himself, and Bridge Four, too far. Too hard. Edited October 23, 2013 by cem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 She says the Words of the Second Ideal in the text. That's before Nalan calls her an Edgedancer. Though the First Ideal is not there so that means she said it before. Each Ideal makes the Stormlight more efficient. Sounds reasonable. Is this canon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardlet Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 Not canon as far as I am aware. The effect of the ideals may each be different and may further vary from order to order. We have only seen a couple of power-ups so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cem Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 (edited) Fair enough. Let's say Kaladin thinks Stormlight got more potent for him after he said the Words then. Edited October 23, 2013 by cem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weebojello Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 Fair enough. Let's say Kaladin thinks Stormlight got more potent for him after he said the Words then. I think that makes sense. I've generally considered the spren bond as the spren acting as a conduit to the other two realms. The ideals in this context are strengthening the bond. The spren becomes more intelligent as it becomes more ingrained in the physical realm, and on Roshar at least, the Rosharian gains access to more efficient use of the sprens power from the other two realms. I'm assuming that the spren is some combination of the shards powers. Hence, Syl would be more Honor, and Wyndle more Cultivation, if not both specific to one shard. My wonder is the capabilities of Szeth as compared to Kaladin. Szeth clearly has the same abilities - if not more practiced - but what is his limit as compared to Kaladin? Is Szeth using some inherent voidish capabilies that we are as of yet unaware? Wow, that's enough ramble for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardlet Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 Well, we do know that Kaladin has greater efficiency with stormlight than Szeth. The easy evidence for this is that Szeth leaks stormlight like a sieve and he also can't hold his breath with stormlight nearly as long as Kaladin can. As to a comparison in the strength of their lashings, we'll likely see evidence for that in WoR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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