Long Game 12: Shadows of Elantris

[Tulir]

2. Did anyone notice Winter Cloud is 'Winter Butt' on the player list?

Woah! How did that happen??? Tulir? Do you have some secret grudge against Winter Cloud that you haven't told me about?

Yeah, that's happened before on the Winter Butt thing. I believe it was MR 5 where it happened. Something about a pluggin that changes all instances of Cloud to Butt.

 

I don't like it, to say the least, but I know what causes it!

 

How about I just remove that extension for this game.  Sorry again, Winter, my mind just switches it to Cloud when i see it so I pay it no heed.  Apologies

[Aonar]

Hmm... Locke is an interesting choice. While he proved himself plenty capable during QF7, was he really worth a first day hit? Why not Meta, or Wilson, or Vron, or any other potentially dangerous player? Perhaps because Locke had gotten close to the truth somewhere? Perhaps because he had been far off? Perhaps because they wanted suspicion cast on to, or away from, those who voted against him? Perhaps because one of the more experience players is evil? Perhaps because they want us to think they're evil? ...Perhaps even because they are, or are suspected to be, Lovers or Pirates paired with Cultists?

 

Vague, shoddy and inconclusive deductions all around. However, the single useful post Vron made last cycle peaked my interest, and it's related to one of the above points. He appeared to show particular interest in the Lovers/Pirates when no one else was really discussing it, and used it to justify the lack of a Day One lynch. This is odd in itself, albeit less so when one considers the possibility that Vron is a Lover/Pirate. If it were in conjunction with the role of a Cultist/Gyorn, it would make still more sense. I mean, who wants to lose two potential teammates the first day?
The jig is up, Wilson! : P
Sorry I don't have much to contribute. I might throw a transitory vote on Vron, for the time being, just to see how he responds. I’d like to note though, I may well not be able to get on and retract the vote if I need to. I’ve become busier still, and the SE is a distraction I can’t really afford at the moment. I shouldn’t be inactive too long, just a cycle or two, but I’d much appreciate it if y’all didn’t lynch me in the time being.

[Araris Valerian]

Ok, so I guess that I can see the reasoning behind lynching an inactive last cycle. Especially the way it was done, it didn't get in the way of regular discussion. But that isn't something we can do every cycle. The lynch won't have much pressure if we just turn around and kill somebody that wasn't contributing. I still want to hear an argument from Wonko in his own words, so my vote is staying put. I also was impressed with the cycle one discussion but not so much right now. I guess we don't have anything new to talk about so far. I'll stop back in at least twenty times before the cycle ends, so expect to hear from me again.

[Mailliw73]

I'll add a vote to Wonko for that last minute bandwagon and to tie things up. That bandwagon still seems very strange to me. I'd also like to note that I find Dow suspicious, for multiple reasons, one being that he is much more active than normal, but I don't want to discourage activity, so I won't vote for him yet.

[twelfthrootoftwo]

I'm starting to appreciate the reasons for going after inactives at the end of a lynch. Only at the end, though; if the active players don't interact, it's pointless. To that end, some serious questions:

 

Bort: why put a second vote on Dowanx? Why not question, say, Wonko? (Wilson and Mek's motives are mostly clear by now, and Phattemer is beyond reach for discussion)

 

Wilson: what were your reasons for believing both Orlok and Mek were Citizens, beyond them being active in thread?

 

Maill: why try to set up a tie vote when we're not halfway through the cycle?

 

edit: grammar

Edited May 27, 2015 by twelfthrootoftwo

[Kasimir]

Ostrich played the AG. That was his first game. The fact that you don't remember him isn't surprising though. He's typically borderline inactive. In MR6, he was around a bit in the planning, and he posted a little bit in the thread, but hardly at all until halfway through the game.

Remember when I said that thing about Sleep-Deprived!Kas? Because I remembered him from the AG--he was one of my initial suspects from the dead doc when Meta was trolling us. I thought I'd typed 'Ostrich was in the AG'. Definitely making mistakes here

Luckat: Apologies. I did see spencer but as I noticed people were already lighting a fire under his tail for the time being, I decided to ignore him. Forgot to mention that though :/

I'd also like to add to the reminders that Converts tell us about their new status. This may also allow the Priest(s) to eventually take appropriate action, though I believe they should at the moment focus on scanning for Cultists.

I'm going to put a vote on Wonko for a different reason. While I'm not a fan of stacking votes, there's sufficient time left in the cycle. I'll grant that vote manipulators are not safe roles, but I'm a bit twitchy at the idea of trying to figure out who they are and to thereby give Eliminators a narrow range of targets to go for. I mean, sure, they could figure it out for themselves. But I'm not a fan of trying to help the enemy.

And while I'm on the matter, please, please, please be careful about revealing your role, people, even if you are a vanilla. You're still helping the Cultists narrow down who to go after. People in Seon PMs are not necessarily telling the truth.

Only you can prevent Seon liars!

 

Edit because of mispelling 'Ostrich'.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Kasimir

[Alvron]

Hmm... Locke is an interesting choice. While he proved himself plenty capable during QF7, was he really worth a first day hit? Why not Meta, or Wilson, or Vron, or any other potentially dangerous player? Perhaps because Locke had gotten close to the truth somewhere? Perhaps because he had been far off? Perhaps because they wanted suspicion cast on to, or away from, those who voted against him? Perhaps because one of the more experience players is evil? Perhaps because they want us to think they're evil? ...Perhaps even because they are, or are suspected to be, Lovers or Pirates paired with Cultists?

 

Vague, shoddy and inconclusive deductions all around. However, the single useful post Vron made last cycle peaked my interest, and it's related to one of the above points. He appeared to show particular interest in the Lovers/Pirates when no one else was really discussing it, and used it to justify the lack of a Day One lynch. This is odd in itself, albeit less so when one considers the possibility that Vron is a Lover/Pirate. If it were in conjunction with the role of a Cultist/Gyorn, it would make still more sense. I mean, who wants to lose two potential teammates the first day?

The jig is up, Wilson! : P

Sorry I don't have much to contribute. I might throw a transitory vote on Vron, for the time being, just to see how he responds. I’d like to note though, I may well not be able to get on and retract the vote if I need to. I’ve become busier still, and the SE is a distraction I can’t really afford at the moment. I shouldn’t be inactive too long, just a cycle or two, but I’d much appreciate it if y’all didn’t lynch me in the time being.

I did not use the Pirates/Lovers to say we shouldn't lynch anyone.  I apologize if that was how it came across.

 

What I was trying to say is:

I don't agree with first day lynchings simply as we have no evidence to go off.  Sure we get evidence after the lynch but until we know the alignment of someone the discussions don't give us anything, and I don't like the idea of just killing someone just so we have something to work with the next day.  I am one of those that likes to sit back and wait.

 

With all the talk about how long we have and how best to find the gyorn, no one brought up the possibility of there being multiple deaths from lynching.  With the number of players I suspect 2-4 lovers and 3 pirates.  That's 7 players that could take another out with them.  And while a Debtor maybe a Lover I doubt that they are a Pirate so maybe it might be better to tie rather than force a lynch.

 

Now that I have (hopefully) make my position clearer on to today.

The fact that the convert hasn't come forward isn't all that surprising.  I can see four reasons why not.  

 

One: There was no convert.  This could be because the Gyorn is inactive or maybe wants to keep a low profile before making their move.

 

Two:  The convert became the Odiv.  Unlikely but possible.  Not smart if they want to remain hidden.  Revealing themselves buys good guy points.  Plus who would suspect the first one converted.

 

Three: The convert is inactive/Elantrian.  If so then they can't say anything.  If I was the gyorn, converting an Elantrian would be something I would do as they couldn't betray numbers and make a smart hiding place for the Odiv.

 

Four:  The converts aren't allowed to reveal names/numbers.  I am waiting on GM reply to this option.  Got reply.  They can reveal names and numbers.

 

Possible Five:  The convert is a Cultist and doesn't want to reveal themselves for fear of being lynched in case of suspected of being Odiv.  Only buys them one round so isn't a smart move.

 

I think option three is most likely but that is simply because it is something I would do.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Alvron

[Clanky]

Ok now that I am back I promised to share my thoughts. 

 

Firstly I would like to add another option to Vrons post above.

 

Possibility 6: The convert is a regular Citizen who knows that by revealing they were converted it would increase their chances of being killed. Both the cultists and citizens would be more likely to kill converted people since it slows the countdown to the Gyorns win condition. 

 

Thought two: 

 

I still maintain some suspicion on Haelbarde but I will remove my vote for now. He hasn't added that much to the discussion (then again neither have I) and I still view the "darn someone good died posts" more likely as a Cultist plot to seem good.

 

Thought three:

 

I don't really have any other suspicions and I am sorry that my RP was distracting to some people but I am going to keep doing it. This is a roleplaying game after all and I did promise dowanx a reading(which will probably come later tonight). 

 

 

EDIT: Removed my vote retraction for haelbarde and put it in original voting post.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Clanky

[Seonid]

It is interesting that nobody is coming forward to identify themselves as the convert, but maybe there's another way around this. I hereby declare that I am not the convert.

 

Is there anyone else who is willing to make a similar declaration? We can narrow it down by elimination if they won't come forward themselves.

[little wilson]

Wilson: what were your reasons for believing both Orlok and Mek were Citizens, beyond them being active in thread?

 

For Mek, it was his genuine frustration. With the discussion being what it was, I can't see any reason why an eliminator would get that frustrated. That mostly cleared him for me. With Orlok, it was his post about the Korathi pendants. I see no reason for an eliminator to make a public declaration like that, as it only helps Team Good. After all, the pendants block a kill. The only kill role is the Cultists. I was more certain about Mek, but I was still pretty sure both were Citizens.

 

I'll take Seonid's idea: I am also not the Convert.

 

I am placing my vote on Maisao. It is unlikely to move. My gut tells me there's something off with him, and his post did nothing to alleviate those feelings and instead actually exacerbated them.

[Kasimir]

I, too, am Spartacus! And so's my bro, Wyrm!

Ahem. I mean, I, too, am not a convert.

[Haelbarde]

It is interesting that nobody is coming forward to identify themselves as the convert, but maybe there's another way around this. I hereby declare that I am not the convert.

 

Is there anyone else who is willing to make a similar declaration? We can narrow it down by elimination if they won't come forward themselves.

Well, sure, I can say the same thing. EDIT: To be clear, I am not a convert. But like I think people have raised, if I was Gyorn, I'd spend the first few rounds converting inactives to keep myself out of the picture till further into the game. So, I'm not sure how much value there would be in anyone saying that they're not. And if someone think's they have a good reason to not say, that won't stop them lying. Though, it is then interesting when someone else gets converted, and gives a list and it has active players who haven't said anything.

 

I still maintain some suspicion on Haelbarde but I will remove my vote for now. He hasn't added that much to the discussion (then again neither have I) and I still view the "darn someone good died posts" more likely as a Cultist plot to seem good.

Thank you Clanky. Been looking at Halo lore and such like, so I had that quote on my brain. I've learnt my lesson, so I'll avoid doing it in the future. The post (coming only a few minutes after the thread came up, and when it seemed there was lots of weirdness with the votes/lynch) was meant to be a nothingness post till I could go back through and double check what we expected and what then we could say about the lynch.

 

EDIT: What I'm struggling with is trying to work out people. This is the first time I'm playing with people like Kas, Wilson, Claincy. I've got no reference for what they're like to interact with. I guess I've been hoping I could work out someone who I could trust with basically no reservations. 

 

---

What would really help us this game is if we manage to hook up a priest with a Citizen with a Seon. Then we could start calling shots if the Priest finds any elliminators. But I guess that's going to take a couple cycles for the Priest(s) to scan enough people. 

Edited May 27, 2015 by Haelbarde

[Mailliw73]

Wilson, you're doing this again. No offense, but you're not that great at catching me when I'm evil. You tend to do the opposite: Lynch me when I'm good. 

 

I tied the vote a bit before midway into the cycle so that there is ample time for the Debtor and Vote Changers to get their actions/votes in so we can see the difference. 

 

I have a contact with a Seon. If someone wants to get a player into PMs, try to let me know and I'll let the Seon holder know with a code.

1452 389283 390 83957.

[Mckeedee123]

Mmph.

 

I bet after how much I posted last Day Cycle, you guys expected me to keep to that pattern. Obviously, I haven't. Most of my theories died with Orlok, and the fact that he wasn't in love with Araris.

 

There's a line of reasoning that I want to address, though: That of wanting to kill Dowanx or Wonko for starting the lynch train last night: I think it's totally wrong. 

 

We have proven that both me (at the time) and Orlok were innocent 100%. It's been GM certified. Both of us were perfectly viable lynch targets last cycle. Two villager lynch targets. Why, may I ask, would the Eliminators attempt to start a Bandwagon on a random inactive when they could easily cut down on the number of actively posting players? In fact, I posit that that's exactly what they did. Look at the voting manipulation performed on me! Orlok and Araris couldn't account for the royal who brought Stephen onto me and the Keeper who secretly voted for me at the same time. They tried to kill me! Even if the voting manipulation onto me could be attributed to other sources (unlikely, seeing as from what I'm reading, most people were leaning towards my side of the Mek/Orlok thing,) why completely upend this wonderful cycle with a random attempt at a bandwagon? So imprecise, random, and pointless. It makes absolutely no sense.

 

I sort of want to slap Lightsworn on the wrist for being so aggressive in pursuing this line of reasoning, but I'll resist voting for him until he tells his side again, since I can see how it could be appealing. That being said, I don't really have anyone in mind for lynching right now. We'll see what goes down.

 

Oh, and for the record, I voted for Fel because I saw him as a workable alternative for Orlok, for whom I had sort of lost my confidence in as a target. It was basically that simple.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Mckeedee123

[Araris Valerian]

I actually do think it is interesting that the Eliminators tried to kill one of the people the village was looking at lynching, and then ended up taking another one of them down with the night kill.

 

Anyway, as far as me not being lovers with Orlok, well, I'm just honest with my opinions. Even when I was an eliminator in the Shard game, I still took a position that felt honest to me; that the game would have been boring for non-eliminators. I'm not sure that any real lovers would act so overtly to protect each other, since as has been pointed out, it just gives the eliminators a two for one kill option.

[Clanky]

I am not a convert. Now I am not sure how useful this process of elimination to determine the convert is. The Gyorn may only be targeting inactives but eventually someone who will give us a list will be converted. i suppose it could help us catch someone in a lie but it would be a stupid risk to take for someone to lie about something that is so easily found to be a lie. 

 

I have decided to put my vote on Twelfth for now. He put a poke vote on Wonko and said he would change his vote later. He never changed his vote and I would like a reason why. Also during the day asked why Bort wasn't voting or Wonko. Do you have a reason for suspecting Wonko that lead to these actions? It isn't much to go on but I do find these two things together to be slightly off.

 

--------

 

"Ok Dow I need you to stay calm during this process. Any aggressive or abrupt thoughts can throw off my focus."

 

Clankii hadn't wanted to do any more readings after yesterdays events. He had spent the majority of the day on his own searching for a way out of the palace but had found nothing. Eventually he had realized what he needed to do. He would continue reading anyone who let him as his way of helping to find the Cultists.

 

But this time he would be doing it for real. Not just telling people what they wanted to hear and hoping they would help add to his fame. No, everyone here knew they were in danger so he wouldn't hide it from now on he would tel everything he saw and not just say things to make people feel good. 

 

He had remembered hearing Dow ask for a reading the night before and had gone to seek him out. 

 

"I see in your future threats to your life all around. But that is not all I see... I see a long life living on your farm with bountiful harvests. I see your children taking over your farm when you are no longer able."

 

That was not what I was expecting. After what I saw in Kae and Kaians future I never expected to see anything past this palace. Maybe our future is not set, we can still make it out of here, we just need to work together.

 

"It is true your life is in danger, you may not leave this palace alive but if I can see past it for you then there is still hope for all of us. Don't despair my friends. We may yet live"

 

 

EDIT: Speling

Edited May 27, 2015 by Clanky

[Haelbarde]

Curious, is Claincy usually quiet when he plays? He's only popped in once or twice (I think?).

 

---

 

Edrab had continued to take notes, with more stuff continuing to happen. One person lost their life as an arugment turned ugly, and then during the night, another person was found dead with a knife in the back, being, without a doubt, another victim of the Jeskeri cultists. The Shaod also took one of those who had been confined to the area. He was summarily banished to Elantris, where the rest lived out their unending days of misery.

 

He also moved around through the crowds, listening into conversations, noting down who was actively participating, and who was suspicious of whom. It might come in handy a bit later, he thought to himself. While continuing to listen in on conversations, he heard was seemed to a fortuneteller. He listened to a few people ask the man, who went by the name Clankii, for their fortune. After the current person asked for their fortune, Edrab decided to approach Clankii. "Would you mind telling my fortune afterwards?" I couldn't hurt, he reasoned. Something interesting to put in the book at least, he was sure.

[Bort]

Bort: why put a second vote on Dowanx? Why not question, say, Wonko? (Wilson and Mek's motives are mostly clear by now, and Phattemer is beyond reach for discussion)

 

Because Wonko wasn't the one that selected someone for death. Wilson suggested Feligon. Wonko agreed in principle to lynch an inactive/lurker. Dowanx named Feligon, and got the bandwagon rolling.

 

Edit: Went back and reminded myself of the post I voted for Dow in. As I said in that post, there were a number of people that said in the sign up thread that they were going to be away for the weekend. As well as the above reason, Dowanx was the one that suggested we lynched inactives/lurkers from day one. Knowing some of them were away, this doesn't really strike me as fair play.

 

Edit 2: I'm Spartacus too! Wait, no, I'm Brian!!! And so's my wife!!! No, still not right. Oh, yeah. Not a convert.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Bort

[Metacognition]

MenE continued to sweep and sweep some more. It was soothing in its own way. 

 

To him, it seemed like everyone had quieted down; as if the deaths of their fellow man had driven the point home to them. They could be next.

 

It could also be due to the Cultists being more than acceptable of the targets of the current gossip. After all, MenE knew that at least he wouldn't go to his death quietly. Even if his protests wouldn't come out right due to his inability to put them into words. He would still scream and shout though. 

 

This room seemed different. It was almost as if they were guided to their decision....

 

He lost his focus on Duke Pifferdan. MenE would get his answer one way or the other eventually. 

Instead, his focus started to draw towards Kae and Jain. It seemed as it they were trying to guide the rumors that were spreading around and were trying to use any excuse to get someone else killed. 

 

He swept a little closer towards them, so that he could listen in on their conversations.... 

[Lightsworn Panda]

Mmph.

 

I bet after how much I posted last Day Cycle, you guys expected me to keep to that pattern. Obviously, I haven't. Most of my theories died with Orlok, and the fact that he wasn't in love with Araris.

 

There's a line of reasoning that I want to address, though: That of wanting to kill Dowanx or Wonko for starting the lynch train last night: I think it's totally wrong. 

 

We have proven that both me (at the time) and Orlok were innocent 100%. It's been GM certified. Both of us were perfectly viable lynch targets last cycle. Two villager lynch targets. Why, may I ask, would the Eliminators attempt to start a Bandwagon on a random inactive when they could easily cut down on the number of actively posting players? In fact, I posit that that's exactly what they did. Look at the voting manipulation performed on me! Orlok and Araris couldn't account for the royal who brought Stephen onto me and the Keeper who secretly voted for me at the same time. They tried to kill me! Even if the voting manipulation onto me could be attributed to other sources (unlikely, seeing as from what I'm reading, most people were leaning towards my side of the Mek/Orlok thing,) why completely upend this wonderful cycle with a random attempt at a bandwagon? So imprecise, random, and pointless. It makes absolutely no sense.

 

I sort of want to slap Lightsworn on the wrist for being so aggressive in pursuing this line of reasoning, but I'll resist voting for him until he tells his side again, since I can see how it could be appealing. That being said, I don't really have anyone in mind for lynching right now. We'll see what goes down.

 

Oh, and for the record, I voted for Fel because I saw him as a workable alternative for Orlok, for whom I had sort of lost my confidence in as a target. It was basically that simple.

 

You wot m9? You wont to go me bruh? 1 v 1 me IRL m80, never lost a fight! No wone messes with Panda! 

 

Jain, I didn't agree with the targets that were up for a lynch.  Both of the players were active and there wasn't any valid reasoning behind lynching either of them.  I thought and still do think that lynching an inactive is currently the best option for the village.  

 

That being said there was an another benefit from doing it last minute.  It generated a lot of discussion and more importantly we got to see last minute actions of several people which will be helpful later on.  If there wasn't a GM error we would of had even more information.  I am actually confused why you think it was a bad thing that it happened the way it did.  No one likes last minute bandwagons, but in this case I think it was valuable.

 

I stand by what I did, but I would like to ask you why are you focusing on me above others?  

 

You created discussion, but also a fair amount of confusion and suspicion, and the discussion was mostly over why you did it, which is more obstructive to the Village than it is beneficial.

 

I'm largely focusing you because of the last minute bandwagon. However, you've given enough reasoning for now, dowanx.

 

Wonko, you still haven't responded to your accusations.

 

Edit: Missing Text

Edited May 27, 2015 by Lightsworn Panda

[the winter system]

Good idea, Seonid: I am not a Convert.

Meta, could you clarify that?

[Kasimir]

I come back to all the things. >>

So, I'm not quite sure, but I think I am somewhat convinced by Mek's reasoning that it seems the move towards Fel's lynch makes little sense in the light of Mek having been Arelon-aligned. (This is no comment about what Mek is now; it just matters to note that the person on the chopping block (Mek), the other person on the chopping block (Orlok) had both been Villagers and therefore it makes little sense for Eliminators to direct the lynch train towards someone else completely (Fel) at personal risk.) Therefore, while I would still like a response from Wonko about why he thought publicly airing candidates for roles might be a good idea, he is, for now, not a priority on my suspicion list. There are other things to keep in mind: if Alv is correct about the Gyorn, it does indicate that people with Seons need to start getting in contact with Elantris stat, if they haven't already done so. (I'm none too happy about the continued trend of helping the Gyorn strategise--why people, why? Jain and Alv, I'm looking at you--but at least in Alv's case, I will accept it, for now, as a contribution which highlights our need to have people talking between Elantris and Kae.) People with Seons, the Elantrians are silenced. But we need to know what's going on in Elantris and ignoring Elantris is not going to be to our advantage in the long run when Elantris has secrets and seems to be a wildcard. Pick a trusted contact to disperse information to the thread if you're worried about being a target. The spice information must flow; information is power, so use it.

While I'm not sure what to make of Jain, my vote will go for now to spencer. I know Wyrm's game looks really awesome, but frankly, mate, if you have time to join Wyrm's 1 year game, you sure have time to check the thread and contribute.

 

Edit: Fail coding is fail.

 

Edit 2: This backhanded advertisement has been purchased by Heron Industries^TM. Be part of the wave of the future with Heron Industries^TM.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Kasimir

[The Honey Badger]

I agree with Kasimir, the Elantrians are dangerous, they are a good hiding spot for cultists/odivs. 

Option 1- We can Lynch them all, this is a terrible idea because we will probably do more harm than good, but there probably is a cultist Elantrian given the numbers, and spreading things out. 

 

Option 2- The seon holders can establish regular PM's with them. Unfortunately the cultists probably have a seon. The seon holders could PM someone they trust the next cycle with the information, for that person to post. 

 

I really don't know what to do, I think that establishing contact wold be smart, but lynching them all, might protect us from festering threats. 

(By the way, I am not trying to sound bloodthirsty, I am just being logical in my options, we all know that wilson is the bloodthirsty one)

 

I think that people without seons (like myself) need to be proactive in getting information, So Mailliw, I will take you up on your offer

[Claincy]

Curious, is Claincy usually quiet when he plays? He's only popped in once or twice (I think?).

No. My activity levels vary but it's always more than this. As I noted when I signed up I really can't participate in the early couple of cycles, I just don't have the time (or health). I am barely mostly managing to catch up with the thread at irregular intervals. So at least when I do have time to participate in another couple of days I won't have to spend hours trying to work out what the heck is going on.

[Kasimir]

I generally dislike being misrepresented. (Five years of university does that to you, I guess. Leaving aside my Eternal E'lir-ness...) Because of this, I will clarify my position.
 
I am not claiming that Elantris is dangerous. To do so is to misrepresent my position and my argument in a crude way. I am claiming that it is dangerous to ignore Elantris. There are several reasons for this:
 
1. As Alv has pointed out, it is possible for Elantris to harbour converts, who are unable to report to us.
 
2. We know that Elantris has secrets that will potentially affect gameplay; possibly even the outcome. Consequently, we ignore Elantris at our peril.
 
3. Badger focuses on the potential cultists and converts hidden in Elantris. But now I half-take back my claim: to focus on the potential cultists and converts in Elantris is to be fundamentally mistaken. The number afflicted by the Shaod is only going to go up, people. What happens when Meta is hit by the Shaod? Or Wilson? Shall we get rid of them too just in case? Even if we don't get rid of them, do you realise that because they cannot speak to the thread, we have suffered the loss of active players who are capable of good analysis? What about if we lose Luckat? Wonko?
 
My points are several.
 
A. If we focus on the potential converts, we are ignoring a bigger problem: right now, being an Elantrian is to cost the Village a valuable resource--your voice. I've said this before, people, and I'll say it again. Especially when you're a regular, your voice and your vote is your power. Discussion is our ally. To suffer Elantrian voices to be cut off from us is the greatest loss. It is the cruelest cut of all.
 
B. I argue that Seons are not just effectively mobilised in PMing. I believe Meta and Claincy said as much in my first game: we have survived before without the ability to PM other players and we will do so again, if we must. Public discussion is far more important. IMO, the greatest power of Seons is to bridge the Elantris-Kae divide and to allow the Elantrians to both be interrogated as well as to contribute to this discussion. I, for one, am severely regretting the loss of Ren's voice here.
 
C. I would suggest that a more effective way to mobilise Seons is to therefore speak to the Elantrians and to have them speak back to us. To relay words from the Elantrians back to the main thread. Sure, we can do the whole 'locate the priest' thing on the side. But this is more important. To those who remember--I was the Tineye in QF6 and the whole power of that role was to be able to broadcast what was going on in one room to everyone in the game. My point is that the same thing applies here. People with Seons, you are better spent relaying information and promulgating it (without copying and pasting) rather than searching behind the scenes here for allies or a second commentary on thread discussion.
 
In fact, precisely because the ability to PM is by a Seon, which counts as an item, we have an advantage here. Normally, a Messenger who passed messages would find themselves an immediate target from Team Evil because their whole point is to shut down channels of communication.
 
But guess what? A Seon is an item.
 
So, just to recap: this post has two points. My first point is to urge communication with Elantris and the relaying of Elantrian knowledge into this thread. Seon-people, you clearly have at least one contact so far. If you are worried about being made a target, you may contact an Elantrian at night and have a contact relay what has been said in the day.
 
But there is another option, and here I come to my more contentious point. (I suspect this will be hated by many.)
 
...You can pass on the Seon.
 
You can relay the information to the thread and then keep the Seon moving around. A passing action only happens at the end of the Turn. In the meanwhile, your message thread remains open. Furthermore, you may make your recepient known to a trusted contact or to the thread. This prevents the Eliminators from being able to simply execute all the messengers. If the recepient does not relay information and pass on the Seon in their turn, we will know something is fishy.
 
But to add to this: you stop being a target for the Eliminators as you no longer have a Seon (at least for that Turn.) Furthermore, if the Eliminator hits you, the Seon still goes on to the recipient. (I am clarifying with Hreo on this as it is currently unclear if the Seon will go instead to your heir.) If the recipient is hit, the Seon goes back to you. We know there are only two conditions under which Seon loss happens and one of them is when the Shaod hits. But each player has precisely the same odds of being hit by the Shaod.
 
My suggestion is that this allows us to maximise our messaging capacities, especially when Elantris expands, instead of having Seon-holders hoard information that cannot help public discussion right now. I know of at least two Seon-holders who have purportedly contacted Elantrians. None of this information is trickling down to the thread and that is seriously problematic.
 
I don't think this will be a popular suggestion for obvious reasons. But my second point is really just this: it's not your role that matters. Roles are not sacred. What matters is how we use them.
 

 

Edited for typo.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Kasimir