Ari

Yeah there were interesting things going on with Alonoe's Ire. (Won't assume for sure that ALL Ire are as... problematic as she was, or that others didn't potentially learn from her mistake) Would love to hear more about the exiled Elantrians in general, especially if there's more than one group of them, and if there's interesting conflict between them and the New Elantrians. (I get the feeling Raoden for one wouldn't stand for Alonoe's actions) Argent's and Pagerunner's explanations are exactly what I thought was going on to and jive really well with the text.

Have you read Hero of Ages? You should understand what's going on with Silver if you (re)read that carefully. Basically I would expect Aluminium would work just as well, they probably haven't ever tried it because everyone knows Silver works and/or Aluminium is not in common usage yet. The scene you want... I expect there's something going on where the usual seperation between Cognitive and Physical is not complete. I think certain details (like bodies, etc...) rule out the forests actually being completely in the Cognitive, but something have allowed Cognitive Shades to link to the Physical in a very weird way if they're formed through a very specific type of magic. edit: Whoops had the wrong book. You can also read the annotations for HoA for easy confirmation.

Indeed. I don't think Elsecalling necessarily involves Shadesmar, (or for worldhoppers, the Cognitive Realm in general) especially as we're given the impression from the bonus scene of Jasnah and Glys that she's Elsecalled before, but never fully entered the Cognitive previously.

Oh, I noticed it, but I wondered if he had merely used the cognitive reflection of a corpse, or temporarily waylaid a dying spirit to hijack them for a boat. I thought it was interestingly out of character with Hoid's comments about not being able to hurt anyone if he was a living being, but then again he notes that Kelsier being already dead made him an exception.

Or he could totally have used metal, but maybe it's possible to have Iron and Steel affect Gems, or to use gems instead, if you hack the power properly, and Hoid had no reason to bother because he had metals on him or found them cheaper to acquire than hacking the magic. Perhaps anything Invested is harder to push on, but invested metal is still easier than uninvested other things. It's not an unreasonable theory for his Pulling the airship.

Shouldn't bad cosmere puns be in General Brandon or something?

Well, this isn't so much a "Iron/Steel" debate directly, so much as an extension of the question of "Does a spike on Roshar need to be made of gems?" I suspect we'll find out that the Scadrian powers apply to metals because metals are the focus for Scadrial. I don't expect you could hack the power to apply to other focuses/investiture manifestations/etc... either. edit: The one good thing you've theorised IMO is that Aluminium might be invisible to Ruin and Preservation. Totally worth asking Brandon if Sazed can see silver utensils and aluminium hats.

Shalash can't be a Dustbringer either, she's the head of the Lightweavers, as Brandon says in the same WoB, but point taken. That WoB definitely heavily implies that Adolin isn't the Dustbringer, thanks. (I suppose Brandon could have been confused and forgotten that he'd given us an Adolin PoV, but normally the things he gets confused about are pretty easy to understand in retrospect, and this wouldn't be) Not on board with him being an Edgedancer like the questioner seems to be arguing/angling for though, (hence the question about two Edgedancers- which also wouldn't confirm Adolin anyway, as we don't know for sure whether Ym is an Edgedancer or Truthwatcher) I think IF he radiants up, it will be a different order entirely. I can't see how "I will remember the forgotten" would square with murdering anyone, even a disgusting seventeen-legged crab-thing like Sadeas. edit: Oh, and have a rep for fetching WoBs. Any post that fetches a WoB to prove a point practically deserves rep for that alone, cheers.

FYI, on the Stormlight Archive forum, you're good to leave out spoiler tags for any Stormlight books that aren't new. Same for mistborn forums. New books will have their own sub-forums for you to post without spoiler tags, so long as you can compose a sufficiently ambiguous title. Eventually those topics get moved back into the main series forum once enough time has passed. I keep forgetting there's any difference between those two, lol.

Ah, but Brandon has established, and for good reasons, that with sufficient magic, cultural attitudes, and abundance of natural resources, magic can slow or supress technology in one of his other works. (I won't say which to avoid minor spoilers, but you'll know it if you've read it) Spanreeds would take away the impetus to invent telegraph, for instance, without which you would probably delay technologies like the telephone, as they'd be a larger leap to develop. Likewise shardblades might not halt technological advancement in weapons development so much as distort and slow it, gearing technology towards things like "half-shards" instead of siege weapons, impeding understanding of physics.

Sounds like your answer applies to travel from Sel, but the other answer about roaming shades applies to travel through the Expanses to Sel.

Brandon has said modifying the base Aon is the minimum needed to get the Aons to work, and that for some Aons, adding additional Chasm lines could be helpful. Brandon nixed that theory, btw. It most likely has to do with the fact that the Shattered power of Dominion and Devotion has spilled into the Cognitive Realm around Sel, (for additional context on this, see the WoK map of Shadesmar referring to the way to Sel as the "expanse of the Broken Sky", and read Mistborn: Secret History, which gives a massive clue about what the sky represents in the Cognitive Realm) and unlike the Spiritual Realm, the Cognitive is sensitive to location. Thus drawing on the Dor in various different places will be influenced by the local cognitive landscape and local ideas, and hence why location matters to say, the power accessed when drawing an Aon.

Adolin isn't part of the protagonist book structure, and there aren't any "one book per order" structures either that would prevent it. Which WoB countered it?

Nalan's dialogue makes it very clear that he was executing Surgebinders that had commited crimes because he thought he would prevent the desolation doing so. I doubt he would care which order they were in. Observer's objection makes far more sense: If Nalan hears and believes the tales that the Final Desolation has already come, he might stop the killings. It's the "believes" bit that might be tricky, though. Of course, he might keep killing them because he blames them for bringing it about... you never know.

Why would the in-universe WoR then refer to "that thing of wicked eminence" with regards to the Recreance then? I'd say it's well-established that there was some secret revealed that precipitated the Knights Radiant breaking their oaths.

It depends what Brandon has to say on mistings and God Metal alloys. I have a sneaking suspicion, for instance, that Augurs can use Malatium, but I may be proven wrong on that. Nice find on the table, that clarifies what will end up going on with the Enhancement quadrant and will nix my speculation on the physical. I'm definite that based on Malatium that it's either switching the internal/external status of the metals, or maybe the pulling/pushing status.

Your first point is addressed in my post. That's the one thing that having Atium switch internal/external effects doesn't explain: what exactly would it do to Electrum given that the base effect of Atium is basically an external version of Electrum. Arguably it could make others view their own futures, but then it's inconsistent with Malatium. Good point that arguably Malatium is instead an internal Pushing metal rather than an internal Pulling metal like gold. That would also make a certain amount of sense. Gold and electrum make sense together. It's Atium and Malatium that don't seem to make sense, mostly because you'd expect Atium's effect to be granted by an external temporal metal, rather than a god metal, and because Malatium seems to be to gold what Atium is to Electrum. Basically, Atium helping you see the future doesn't make sense in terms of base metals.

So, we've been having some recent Word of Brandons about how the sixteen base metals in Allomancy can be alloyed with any of the God Metals. So far to date, we have precisely one demonstrated use of one of these alloys, in Mistborn: Final Empire, Vin burns Malatium, an alloy of Atium and gold, and it allows her to see others' past selves. However, this power may be more revealing than we think- for ten of the allomantic metals, the "internal" and "external" powers vary wildly in how they work, and I think we can extrapolate for those metals what happens based on Malatium. My current theory is that alloying Atium with a base metal switches whether it is internal or external, and for most metals it does so without changing the nature of the power. For nine of the metals, this produces a predictable effect. For six of the metals, I expect this would give them a completely new power, as there's already a clean external or internal version of their existing power. Electrum doesn't seem to fit this theory very well as far as I can tell, which I will go into later. As a reminder, here are the base metals: Steel (Physical External Pushing) - Coinshot Iron (Physical External Pulling) - Lurcher Pewter (Physical Internal Pushing) - Thug Tin (Physical Internal Pulling) - Tineye Brass (Mental External Pushing) - Soother Zinc (Mental External Pulling) - Rioter Bronze (Mental Internal Pushing) - Seeker Copper (Mental Internal Pulling) - Smoker Nicrosil (Enhancement External Pushing) - Nicroburst Chromium (Enhancement External Pulling) - Leecher Duralumin (Enhancement Internal Pushing) - Gnat Aluminium (Enhancement Internal Pulling) - Gnat Bendalloy (Temporal External Pushing) - Slider Cadmium (Temporal External Pulling) - Pulser Electrum (Temporal Internal Pushing) - Oracle Gold (Temporal Internal Pulling) - Augur Here is what I expect their counterparts to do: Atium-Steel: Push on metals inside your own body Atium-Iron: Pull on metals inside your own body Atium-Pewter: Enhance others' physical abilities (by touching them? Or perhaps in a bubble?) Atium-Tin: Enhance others' senses Atium-Brass: Soothe your own emotions Atium-Zinc: Riot your own emotions Atium-Copper*: Smoke feruchemical pulses? Atium-Bronze*: Seek feruchemical pulses? Atium-enhancement metals: Absolutely no idea at this stage. Atium-Bendalloy: Speed up your own personal time (ie. no bubble) Atium-admium: Slow down your own personal time Atium-Electrum: See others' futures? Allow others to see their futures? Malatium: See others pasts (confirmed) Atium-iron and atium-steel would, if I'm correct, result in rather gnat-like powers for most Allomancers. (Those powers could maybe be useful for Kandra?) Atium-electrum seems to be a fault in the system, as base atium already allows the person burning the metal to see other people's futures. It's possible that Atium-electrum could allow other people to see their own futures, however then it diverges from Malatium for no good reason. It seems to be the biggest hole in this theory to me. I expect for the Atium enhancement metals and external Atium mental metals that as the existing powers either externalise and internalise very cleanly in the case of the enhancement quadrant, or externalise and internalise based on pulling/pushing in the mental quadrant, that these metals would display completely new powers instead, that vary on the exact same way as their base metals do. I'd guess that perhaps Atium allows copper and bronze to smoke and seek feruchemists, but I may be way off-base there. If I'm correct that alloying a base metal with Atium switches whether the metal is considered Internal or External, I suspect that alloying base metals with other god metals may have similar rotational effects on the chart of powers- so some might inverse Pulling and Pushing, and some might even rotate or flip the quadrants, turning a physical metal into a mental one, for instance. There are also other possibilities to what's going on. One is that there's a third trait to allomantic powers that's hidden within the table, and that all the enhancement metals have the same state for that trait, wheras all the physical and temporal metals vary based on whether they're internal or external, and that Atium alloys actually flip that trait. I'm not sure that's a cleaner explanation, personally, but thought it worth mentioning. Thoughts? Cleanup? Feedback? WoBs?

I've seen that idea posted across so many threads and nobody has ever gone into more detail than a simple "Aluminium did it," so apologies that I wasn't aware there was some actual nuance there, but people do need to preserve that nuance if they're gonna cross-post the theory to other threads all the time if they want it understood.

So now we're no longer in strict spoiler policy, the part I edited out of my post was related to a scene in Bands of Mourning where a Voidbringer shows up on Scadrial. (Well, it's possibly some other humanoid creature with glowing red eyes, but most likely a Voidbringer)

I believe you mean it raises the question. Begging the question is when you effectively assume something's true as part of your argument that it's true. Odium would probably have won a fight with Ruin, as Ruin had invested a fair amount of his power, and then had even more hidden away as Atium. Odium is focused on Splintering shards. Ruin wants to destroy everything, all the way up to speeding up the eventual entropic heat death of the universe, and didn't even know how to Splinter Preservation.

Well if the weapon no longer exists in it original form it definitely can't be as simple as Aluminium on its own, as that still exists. I'm calling that theory debunked for now. Doesn't mean Aluminium isn't part of what they used, of course. Your threads will get moved if they're PURELY about information related to M:SH or BoM. If they require a working knowledge of other parts of the cosmere to understand the thread, I think you should be good, although it never hurts to use spoiler tags.

Although, if you could spike human creativity.... just imagine what would happen if you put such a spike into Brandon... lol

Brandon has said Odium's is both the personification of hatred and aims to inspire hatred in others. So he likely has more goals than just destroying the other shards- he probably wants to run the cosmere as his own personal hell afterwards, turning everyone against each other and, most importantly, having them despise him for doing it.

Haha okay, it was just a random counter-example as far as I was concerned though.