ChocolateRob

Well I've not been on here for that long nor made that many posts while I have been here but here's my top 5. 1) The highest number of upvotes I've had so far (14) was a pretty random entry in the 'Words of Radiance Is Here' thread where I joked about a photo of boxes of WoR arriving in a bookstore, saying that the boxes were so big that they must contain at least 'two' copies each. surprising popularity for a quick (but good natured) snark about the size of the book. 2) The next highest (11) was for the initial post in a thread of my own making entitled 'Lighteyes suck at apologising...' Obviously it's much more satisfying to get the upvotes for a thread you start, this one going on for 3 pages of discussion. 3) Closely (10) followed by another more random post. In the thread 'This is a sad hour' I expressed my relief that the thread was not announcing that there would be no more WoR previews posted on tor.com. There were a few comments posted about that actually being true until the Almighty Ahlstrom pointed out that I was making a hilarious joke. Peter clearly gets British humour. 4&5) Joint fourth/fifth place (8 each) are the first posts in another thread I started called 'Cryptic Previews' wherein I presented outrageously suspect WoR previews and encouraged others to do the same. At the point of making this post I'm keeping a very respectable ratio of 2 upvotes for each post, though this is likely mostly because I've only made about sixty posts so far. If I can get a mere sixty people to upvote this entry then I can boost the ratio to 3 per post... any volunteers?.. no one?.. Dang it! Another point of interest that can be added to this thread would be 'most criminally underrated post' for those ones you did not feel got the upvotes they deserved. My nominee would be in the Glimpses of Radiance thread where my response to the 'Prince Renarin would you kindly slay this rock' glimpse was 'A man chooses, a Szeth obeys'. Maybe I should have put the 'would you kindly' bit in bold or maybe there just aren't so many Bioshock fans here, oh well. An addition to this thread for the real attention whores among us, "Lookit me Lookit me, I'm so big and clever!"

I've enjoyed the whole series and never really got any of the complaints, people are just too fussy about some things. I'm looking forward to seeing where it goes next. One random thought I've had is that the major events of the second half of this season would be a great origin for the next reboot of the Spider-man film series. Peter's parents are SHIELD agents/assets killed during the uprising so in ten years or so Peter is the spider-man of this marvel-verse. I understand that Xmen, spiderman and MCU are owned by separate cinematic enitities (that won't even let them share some terms, such as the word mutants, very childish) but hey, there's at least ten years to get it sorted.

Fidelaccius: "You cannot win Nick. If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine".

Poke a big enough hole in the outer wall of Elantris to cause a second Reod so you can go to a Selish halloween party as a zombie.

Spend your massively rich family's entire fortune developing and building a Faster-than-light allomantic spaceship then discovering that Dave down the street has been using Shadesmar to pop from planet to planet whenever he felt like it for years.

Well they all seem to be covered so far but I will admit to a certain dark pleasure in the half line - 'as Adolin worked it to be certain'.

I had thought of the windmill trick but it did also say earlier that you can only push and pull on an object's centre of gravity. I'm not sure whether to judge this as a flub on Brandon's part (justified by rule of cool) or a misunderstanding on mine. The way I understand it though is that any piece of metal has just one blue line leading to it's centre of gravity. To be able to flip a metal bar there would have to be separate sections on either end to push and pull upon, the bars he used were ripped out of a cage (i think) so would have just been one simple piece with one line at it's centre.

All epics have their quirks, as David points out, no two epics have the exact same profile. Randomness seems to be built into the system. On another note - during the Great Transfersion weren't all the objects that were touching fused together? So for the most part the entire city is one single, massively complicated, piece of metal? If so then if an Allomancer were to push or pull on any part of it would they not be pushing towards/away from wherever the centre of the city is? If you were inside a room and burned your metals wouldn't you see only one colossal blue line leading to the centre of the city's gravity? If a piece were to break off it would register separately but possibly the massive blue line would overwhelm the sense of smaller ones. Similarly would a Feruchemist be able to walk through the city barefoot and use it as a metal mind that can be filled or tapped from anywhere?

This one always confused me too. I asked this question on the Elantris TV Tropes Headscratchers page but never got an 'it actually was a flub' statement so thank you everyone above for clearing it up. As soon as I saw the map when I first read the book I thought it looked rather iffy (though I never imagined it was plot relevant). The perfectly horizontal coast just looks completely unnatural to me, I'd find a straight mountain range to be much more convincing. So personally I think a curved coast-line and straight mountain-line would have looked better. So how do you folks thinks the map (or story) could be altered so that it makes sense. If the chasm is on the left of the mountains then the chasm-line would have to be inside the city where the buildings would be in the way of him drawing it and the soldiers there would have chopped him into eternally suffering little pieces, on the other hand, if the chasm is to the right of the mountains then it would not be in the country at all and therefore not a problem. I suppose there would have to be a road inside Elantris in exactly the right place for him to be able to do the chasm-line without hitting any buildings but far enough away from the bonfire that the soldiers in the city do not see him straight away, perhaps the chasm would need to be shorter?

Well... There is one use for Silver in Allomancy, mixing it with Gold to make Electrum. Gold is practically useless (except for Feruchemists) and Silver is completely useless, but mix them in the right quantities and you can take on someone burning Atium.

@Kurk Dalinar had a madman and a Shardblade hidden away but the first step in starting a plot against Amaram would have to be bonding the blade, if the blade is not in place first the whole thing could fall apart. He only bonded the blade after Kaladin was arrested. It is likely that Dalinar only used the blade/nutcase as the trap because they were convenient, he only had them brought to him then hidden away because he did not know what to make of them yet. You are right though that Kaladin did not mention Shards in his accusation. I read too much into it (which confused me later when Shallan did not realise that it was Kaladin that killed her brother, not mentioning the Shards hid that)

But who else is getting prologue POVs? Do only the first five books show treaty night or all ten? Who's perspectives of treaty night would show something new? Eshonai for sure, maybe Amaram, was Taravingian there? I doubt Gavilar's would show anything new that would not be covered by Eshonai or Amaram.

Rats! I was building up to that. I agree that it is Kaladin's job to be unobtrusive, the times where he speaks up are inappropriate whether he is Darkeyed or Light. Especially in the carriage with Shallan and Adolin, he certainly had no place interrupting their conversation/date anymore than a waiter should interrupt their dinner with inappropriate questions. On Dalinar however it is clear that he, at first, pretty much dismissed what Kaladin told him and it is this that he owes him an apology for. He clearly did not investigate the claim any further than finding reason to dismiss it. Had he actually investigated it he would have asked Kaladin exactly how it happened, witnesses or not. Amaram would have learned that Dalinar had asked awkward questions and known the possible cause but he was caught completely flat footed when Kaladin accused him in the arena. Dalinar never even mentioned the results of his 'investigation' to Kaladin until he was forced to by events, clearly he tried to sweep it under the rug and forget about it. It is only once Kaladin shook things up by making a very public accusation against Amaram that he had doubts and made the effort to investigate it properly. Throughout WoK & Wor we hear hints that random Darkeyes are taking an interest in the mysterious Stormblessed (soldiers being beaten for trying to see him after the highstorm, soldiers he saved showing him immediate respect). I thought it was to hint that his reputation was building in the camps so much that the Darkeyed population would react to his unjust imprisonment. Apparently however it was to allow the diagramists to identify him instead. One of the only things any Darkeye can aspire to be is a hero who wins himself some Shards and become a very powerful Lighteyes. With such a hero appearing, being ignored for his accusation and imprisoned I was expecting such a reaction from the Darkeyes that the Lighteyes would realise what trouble they could be in if they did not appear to investigate properly. Beyond some of bridge four considering breaking him out there did not appear to be any reaction from the general populous. Frankly Kaladin should have left and taken all the Darkeyes with him. (I apologise if this is starting to get off topic though)

I probably should have mentioned this sooner but I've not gotten any Emails from the site since I joined a month or so ago. I figured my inbox would end up getting filled pretty quickly if I chased it up so I haven't bothered so far but a lack of clutter is a poor excuse when I would have asked for it in the first place. So far as I can tell I've entered my address correctly and asked for instant notification on followed tasks but so far have received nothing. I'm not on Facebook or Twitter or anything of that nature so Emails are the only notice I have without going to this site and checking. It's very possible I've just ticked the wrong box somewhere but I don't see where. I should also say that I had a PM a while ago that I was only aware of once I came to the site, should that have automatically been sent to my email even if I have made an error about thread notifications. I've checked my junk email folder ant they're definitely not going there. Thanks

Is it just me or do Lighteyes have no idea what a real apology actually involves? I was thinking of Dalinar and Shallan when I came up with this but Elhokar and Amaram both provided an interesting counterpoint to them as I thought more on it. So I guess you can call this a thread about the philosophy of apologies instead of just Lighteyes as the title suggests but it does contain WOR spoilers so here it should live. (PS there are a few Wheel of Time spoilers at the end too.) It started when I connected Shallan and Dalinar’s apologies to Kaladin together. First off Shallan claims to have apologised to Kaladin, when by my reading she didn’t really, then later Dalinar states “I believe an apology is due” but does not really deliver one himself. At first I thought he was referring to the apology that he himself owed to Kaladin but he apparently just meant that Amaram should deliver a simple ‘Sorry I murdered your men, mutilated your face and made you a slave’ (which admittedly he then did.) Shallan’s apology was pretty lacking by my standards. Kaladin (rightfully) called her out on the way she stole his boots then sighed and told her he was not holding a grudge over it and that she was not as bad as others. - “Not as bad as the others? What a delightful compliment. Well, let’s say you’re right. Perhaps I am an insensitive rich woman. That doesn’t change the fact that you can be downright mean and offensive, Kaladin Stormblessed” It was her next line that confused me - “I apologize, and all I get in return is a shrug?” I had to reread it looking for the apology, maybe it’s just me but as apologies go that was… not one. (his was closer) Dalinar was better in that his actions spoke of apology but he really should have said the words (Words are important on Roshar). He needed to acknowledge out loud that he more or less dismissed what he did not want to hear and that he was wrong to do so. Doing things correctly eventually is not an apology, admitting fault to yourself and those wronged is. Initially I was simply amused that he said an apology was due then failed to actually deliver one. Combined with Shallan’s failure I thought of this thread but we can look a bit further into it by using Amaram and Elhokar. Amaram. Now he did apologise, in the strictest sense of the word, the only problem was the sincerity of it. He was caught out in one direct lie and had to admit the truth, he apologised with all formality and admitted that he was sorry for what he did. The only problem being that his sorrow was in no way proportional to his sin, he may actually regret that innocent men were killed but he admits that this was not as important to him as gaining Shards ‘for the greater good’ and that he would do it again in a heartbeat. It is the forced apology that a child gives when caught out and made to apologise, an insincere formality. In his later viewpoint he makes it clear that his only real regret was not killing Kaladin too. (I think that once Amaram had confessed what he had done before witnesses Dalinar should have demanded he immediately surrender his Plate and Blade. What else could Amaram have done? It would have gone a long way towards Dalinar's apology) Elhokar is the only one who makes a real job of it, though he does not say the words ‘I’m sorry’ he does say what matters. He admits that he was wrong and he admits why he did it, he does this both to himself and to the person that he wronged. He humbles himself, he explains his hopes and his (many) faults and even asks for help in doing what is right. Of course he is drunk, in vino veritas as they say. A bewildered Kaladin shoots him down but he is still determined to figure how to do things better. You could also argue that there is strength in not saying ‘I’m sorry’ because when you formalise an apology too much you run the risk of doing it simply to clear your own conscience by getting forgiveness. The Wheel of Time is also good for looking at apologies specifically Elayne, Nynaeve and Egwene’s apologies to Mat. Let’s be honest, they each owed him big time for both rescuing them and for their treatment of him afterwards. Elayne and Nynaeve both get called out on their behaviour by Birgitte and Aviendha and made to apologise but as with Amaram above these apologies are completely insincere and only done with extreme reluctance. Elayne only regrets that she has somehow disappointed Aviendha and Nynaeve is… Nynaeve. Neither truly regrets their actions and their apologies are simply expected formality. It is only later that they work out Mat’s value as a person (and a friend) and they both make it up to him, Elayne in the way she treats him when they meet up again in Andor and Nynaeve in defending him when Tuon insults him (specifically mentioning the rescue). Both girls made a reluctant apology then backed it up later with actions, justifying their growth. Egwene on the other hand never apologises for any of her actions, she doesn’t learn to be a better person she learns to be an Aes Sedai. Perhaps if she had made friends willing to call her out more often (she sadly lost Aviendha to Elayne in that regard) she would not have been the only main character to… well, you know.., karma for not growing. (um, that is that she wouldn’t have… not that others would too). Thoughts?

Nah, he only managed it once, Brandon does it quite regularly. The person you mention was clearly Brandon basing a character one something he has experienced but watering it down quite a bit.

Ah, I see what you're doing there. You're assuming some sort of mundane, non reality-warping, sensible explanation but you're not seeing that that just wouldn't explain how Brandon keeps up his output of original fiction... ... that and waking up in the mornings to discover short stories scrawled on his bedsheets. Peter's main duty is actually photocopying Brandon's bedding before returning it washed and ironed.

For those who wonder how Brandon gets so many things written so quickly his website sometimes gives you a big clue. He's developed some kind of technique for skipping the second draft of a book and jumping straight into the third. I think he did it with Firefight - 1st draft 100%, 3rd draft 60%. Manipulating reality like that must be really handy for a writer. If he were a chef he'd undoubtedly make the starter, skip the main course then make the dessert yet somehow give you a full three course meal.

I've mentioned it before but I don't think that Syl actually died. I think the Stormfather somehow used the weakening of their bond to reclaim Syl from Kaladin in order to protect her from him. The way I see it is that the bond was only just strong enough for Kaladin to get some stormlight in a moment of true crisis (he is at least protecting himself from an outside threat, life before death) but it was so difficult for both Kal and Syl that Stormdaddy was able to take advantage at that moment to yank her away from him. The scream was because Windpater pulled her away from Kaladin and the later sobbing is because she cannot get back to him. Only when he reforges the bond with the next ideal can she break away from whatever Windypop held her with. I assume that Shallan's stormlight healed her from the fall but that Kaladin's stormlight was only just enough to provide him with one of those 'splash' landings he can do, although he did still sustain enough damage to knock him out. If they both healed then they would either both wake at about the same time or Shallan would have seen him glowing faintly when she woke first. Might regrowth work the same as Feruchemical gold where you have to heal more slowly if you have less to work with?

He may have been trying to find whatever he could from Jasnah and Shallan but only managed to find that one page. I'm curious as to whether the drawing of the Santhid in the book is the original that was lost or the inferior replacement she drew. If it was the original does that mean that someone managed to retrieve it intact? I get the impression that all the illustrations in the books are all gathered from useable in world sources after the events happened.

All very brave attempts but the truth is that you have no chance because, as his character profile on TV Tropes states, he is the stickiest of sticks and will not be persuaded otherwise. I felt he deserved an entry so I added one two weeks ago. (PS Maybe Brandon needs to have 'I am a Stick!' T-shirts added to his store.)

Heh heh, upvote. Can you name the twelve tasks in order (without looking)?

Amaram seemed pretty darned surprised when he finally recognised Kaladin. If Dalinar had made any kind of thorough investigation then Amaram would have known that he had been accused and know who by. I see his investigation as more as - D - "So tell me the story of how you won those" A - "Well here it is. My amazing tale of daring do which these 17 people all saw" 17P - "That we did" D - "Sounds legit." It's not like Dalinar actually asked for any details from Kaladin when he first made the accusation, all he asked was if there were any witnesses. A real investigation would involve comparing their descriptions of what happened at the very least. Kaladin presented him with something he did not want to hear and as Kaladin said he would Dalinar just looked for reasons to dismiss it.

I read it as Kaladin's behavior severely weakening their bond and the Stormfather somehow used that to pull her away from Kaladin in order to try and protect her. The Stormfather is then holding her apart from him until Kaladin reforges the bond by saying the third ideal. I figure that in giving Kaladin more Stormlight than their bond could handle at that point, to save him from the fall, either distracted or weakened Syl enough for her overly protective dad to pounce. She was not as dead as the SF claimed (hence the crying), the scream was her realising what her dad was up to as he snatched her away.

Use his Sylblade to remove three feet from the bottom of his house?