Elbereth
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...Storm it. Now I have a headache. Thing is, that does make sense. It's about the only thing that makes sense given your lowered activity level. As a Darkfriend, why not take advantage of the town's trust in you to wreak havoc? Same as the Corrupted. (We know for a fact that you're not Fain.) But as a Villager? I know how against dictator-like situations you are. So of course you'd try to prevent that as much as possible. Agh. Now, the other thought that pops to mind is that if you're not going to be helping out as much as you could, your death might benefit us as much as your life given all the opinions raised around you. And PMs won't go down, because Elodin's still alive (and if he's not a Dreamwalker although he likely is, there's almost certainly another Dreamwalker around somewhere - only one, particularly when that only one is you, is rather improbable). But that's... rather cold, given that I'm leaning fairly heavily towards your innocence now (which in turn makes me paranoid, but of course it does). And just because you're taking a backseat doesn't mean that you won't be helping, very possibly more than certain other members of the game (*cough*Phatt*cough* - seriously I will vote on you tomorrow to be lynched if you're not killed by a Wolfbrother tonight, unless you actually talk). So... ...If you're an eliminator, I'm going to be storming furious at myself after the game. Meta. Now I have to find someone else to vote for, don't I. Looks like no more reading Princeps' Fury until after turnover.
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Was going to edit it in but Seonid posted (yay): And yes, I'm aware that your silence hasn't been due to inattention, or at least I strongly suspected the same. I'm also aware that that silence will do you no good if you're dead, Meta. Unless your plans are complex indeed. And... the thing is, I want to believe you, just like with Wilson. I want to believe that you're on my side, that you know what you're doing, that you'll take care of everything and it'll all be alright. But that's how I got caught in MR12, in LG20. I'm not going to make that mistake again. If that means suspecting you a bit more as a result and even voting for you more often than is called for, I can live with that if it means I don't trust you without reason again, much as I know you'd like that. I'm pushing myself too far in the opposite direction to combat my instinctive trust of you. That's the main reason I'm so conflicted about this vote. I don't know if I'm being unreasonable and pushing myself too far, or if this is a perfectly reasonable gut suspicion. And even if you turn out to be evil I won't know if I was being reasonable or suspecting you for all the wrong reasons until I read the evil docs. Assuming your silence really is due to a plan... you're village. You wouldn't make yourself so obviously out of character as an eliminator. But I don't know that, and I could certainly see it as a clever bluff to get me off of your back. So. Bah. Thanks for responding, Seonid!
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I notice that we have returned to the pattern of very few votes to decide a lynch... I dislike that immensely. Problem is that most people trust me, but enough don't that it's enough to lynch me. Same with Meta - most do, a very few don't. And unfortunately, even though the numbers are the same, I could become Mayor if I wished, and break that tie (EDIT: wait, no, three votes on Meta to two on me. Somehow missed Winter's retraction.). (Which I would. I'm not committing suicide just so someone who might be good can survive, regardless of how good that player is, when I know for a fact that I'm good.) And no other candidates have been proposed, except Joe by Bard (which has been discussed, and I agree, although I think there's only been maybe one pinchhitter in all the time I've played, and I can't even remember who that was) and Phatt, and Con. Phatt I'd be willing to lynch, but it wouldn't do us much good when we have a Wolfbrother going after inactives and wouldn't learn anything from it. Con... maybe? I don't have evidence against him any more than I have it for Meta, though. And I'm not very certain about Meta, either. (Although the fact that no one's jumped on to try to lynch him is a bit reassuring, given that if he is good the Darkfriends want him dead.) But at this point, I'm willing to compromise a bit if it means getting more people involved in the lynch discussion.
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I'm amused that you missed your own vote the first time throught, Hael. And most things on mobile are difficult. Meta, I don't currently have any better suspicions than you, no. And that's certainly a fair point against me. It's also something you could bring against me in practically every game I've played so far. And even if I were an eliminator, I wouldn't know everyone else's alignment. There would still be the Corrupted or the Darkfriends to deal with, whichever I wasn't. So I'd just focus on trying to find those, and my suspicions wouldn't be exactly the same but I'd still have them. But I don't. Because I never do. Sorry. I'm trying to get better at that, but obviously it's not going particularly well. (In this particular game, there's also the case of me being traveling and tired for the first few days, so I really need to reread them over in order to get a firmer grasp of what actually happened.) Clarification point - I wouldn't be having Mayor again. I've never been Mayor. I still don't think I'm a great candidate regarding today's situation, though, so my vote stays where it is for the moment. Was it clarified anywhere what happens in case of ties? One thing I noticed already from my reread - I checked when the last eliminator was lynched D1, by the way. It was AG2. A game which Sart was in, no less. It's slightly strange to me that Lopen didn't point that out, given that he was the person lynched. (Now, that game is a bad example of a D1 lynch of an eliminator - it was entirely due to luck and vote manipulation, not an actual lynch. But it is the last time an eliminator died D1, as far as I can tell from a brief scan.)
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Back from the ACT, finally! (It went... not horribly.) To find that there's been barely another page. So, I'm putting my vote back on Meta, much as I dislike doing it. And my reasoning, in addition to my and others' suspicions of him, is information. (Again.) Meta's death will tell us a lot, whether he turns out to be evil or not. If he's Village we know to look for those who've been pushing for his death (including me, yes, I know), and vice versa. This is particularly good with Meta because practically everyone's commented on him at some point, so there's a solid amount to be learned. Plus, given that he's gone quiet, I don't know that he's doing us as much good staying alive anyway, unfortunately. Regarding Mayor votes... I could vote for myself right now and make it fairly certain I'll be Mayor. My main concern with that is that it nets you basically no information about me. You know exactly how I'm going to use my power, given that I'm one of the people up for the lynch today. So you'd have to keep me as Mayor for another cycle to learn anything actually interesting about my opinions. Which I don't think we should do. Moving the Mayor around is much better than keeping it stagnant, and I don't want to set in stone the precedent Lopen set of two turns for each Mayor. So I'm not sure yet. Guess I'll have to figure it out soon. Hael, retractions don't have to be edited in the original post, but Gamma prefers it that way. EDIT: Talk, people! At least half of the people who've posted since haven't commented on my questions, and Seonid, Meta, and Rubiks at the very least have all viewed the thread in the interim. Talk! Please!
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Bugsy, I'm having a hard time following why the lynch makes a difference here. Why couldn't Gunshy have detained Elodin N1? Also, I have to go take the ACT now, so I won't be around until four hours before turnover (ish). I expect to see at least two more pages of discussion when I come back. In fact... Meta, just so the lynch isn't as set in stone. That vote will go back on if nothing's changed in seven hours. I had comments on Lopen's post, but they'll have to wait until later. Wish me luck!
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Well, it may help that I've read them before. And I have lots of free time. Lots and lots. Hopefully I'll be able fo finish First Lord's by Monday so I can focus on the game properly again. If you disagree with Aman, why haven't you said so? You certainly haven't in the past day. Do you have any particular reasoning for wanting Hael to be Mayor? I was going to ask you why when you voted, but I think I got distracted. And also, why Bugsy? Joe seems fairly obvious. Couple of other things: 1. Straw seems to have dropped off the face of the earth. A scanner doesn't do us any good if no one ever gets the results. 2. Seonid and Meta have both viewed this thread after I posted without answering my questions. (Lopen is currently viewing, but I'm guessing he's writing up a post, and he has in fact given his thoughts on the game a lot more than most players this cycle.) 3. Being the perfectionist, I decided to go through the thread taking notes the same way I did in LG20. That is definitely not something I'm going to finish tonight. Sorry.
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I'm back! And I've finished Captain's Fury () so I'm taking a brief break between books to post. I still have a post of my thoughts on every player coming, but I wanted to respond to everything that's happened first. (Unfortunately, 'everything that's happened' is not very much... Where's the lynch discussion? The only suspicions that have been put forth are Meta and me, as far as I'm aware. And that's been two people. Basically nothing else has happened, and that definitely concerns me in comparison to previous Days.) Encouraging discussion doesn't help you all that much, in my opinion. It's such an obvious "no eliminator would do that" kind of thing that it's basically non-indicative of alignment at this point. And you weren't just saying "guys we need to be talking", only asking a question. So... while it was good of you to remind me that we need to be discussing, I don't think it was necessarily an intentional reminder or something you wouldn't do if you were evil. That said, it was mostly a vote to get you talking, which it has indeed done, and to start discussion in general, which... hasn't happened as much as I'd like. But I never intended for that vote to stay unless I found something much more suspicious, so Conquestor for now. I'll vote again when I post my thoughts on everyone in a few hours. Also, nitpicking a bit, but Elodin's not both a Dreamwalker and a Darkfriend, unless there's a third Whitecloak who detained him instead of Gunshy. If he were both, there would have been no need to detain him. Anyway. One, Wilson's female. Two, Corruption comes before kills, so Wilson would've shown up as Corrupted. Which she obviously did not. So that's certainly not the case. >> I probably do. But (as far as I'm aware) that's not why I'm not voting for him. I'm not voting for him because (until you pointed all of those interesting things (which I got rid of in the quote because this post is long enough as it is) out) I had no reason to suspect him, and in fact the evidence pointed towards his innocence, given that he's confirmed not Fain and he was the second vote on Sart. And I'm not willing to kill him on gut alone, particularly when he doesn't get the chance to play as often. Just like I would be a little more leery of killing new players. Given what you've pointed out, though... I'm still not voting until I've gone through everyone, but it's a lot more likely that I'll put my vote there for now. Actually, you know what? Meta. I can always retract if I find someone more suspicious. And if not, then I'll just have to hope my gut is right. Well, I know that Stink told me I was evil, for one. I never got any reasoning for that except that I hadn't asked for a role trade by page three of the PM. Also, agreed about the other votes on me. I didn't bother responding because you gave me something to actually respond to, but seriously? Just because Ada is excellent at seeming to always know exactly what he's doing doesn't mean you shouldn't think for yourself. Why do you think I'm suspicious? It doesn't matter what he said to me in a PM. What have I said, in thread or to you, that makes you suspect me? Tell me that. Until then, I'm going to suspect that you're eliminators just bandwagoning in order to get a trusted villager killed. Well, part of my point is that most people have had a fair amount of attention lavished on them already. But yes. I'm aware that the "I would do this as an eliminator" defense is nearly as bad as "I wouldn't do this as an eliminator" one. I'm trying to word it in ways that require as few assumptions as possible and rely on my actions in previous games to prove my point, but it is a weak defense for sure. Sorry that I couldn't think of anything better to say. Forgive me if I don't trust that information 100% given that it's passed through two players, either of whom could be lying. I'm not saying that the existence of a second Whitecloak is a horrible thing that completely upsets everything I thought I knew. But it does make things just a little bit less certain, and I dislike that. He very well could be Padan Fain, if he were targeted with Mask of Mirrors. Now, is that likely? Perhaps not. But it's not fact that he's confirmed not to be Fain. It's just probable. Yeah, I'm aware. I still wanted to point out that it'd be stupid to assume that, though. Lopen got it here. Newness in terms of people I haven't been evil with, not in terms of actual experience. Sorry for not being more clear. I already converted Joe once. Working with him is great and all, but there are so many people in this game that I'd love to be evil with that I'd practically be spoiled for choice. So I wouldn't pick Joe, unless that was undoubtedly without question the best strategic choice. He is a good choice, sure, but so are several other players. So no. I wouldn't convert him. And it's not necessarily obvious that I wouldn't, so if I were trying to be unpredictable there would be better ways, in my opinion. Well, yeah, I can see where you're coming from. And to be honest, I'd probably have done the same thing if I were evil, just because it was what was expected and again a good way of contributing while I traveled. But in my (admittedly biased ) opinion it's not alignment-indicative. And... just because I would be converting people as fast as possible doesn't mean I wouldn't want roles in order to make my choices as informed as possible. Just because I would want to convert players based on who they are doesn't mean a role wouldn't trump that. Same reason I converted Joe instead of Hael in QF15. Strategy trumps desire. (Sadly.) With secret roles, I can see where you're coming from. Honestly, as I am right now, I'm not sure I would have brought them up. But at that time, I'd just finished MR14, which was rather strongly concerned with the possibility of secret roles, and I'd just seen the effects that PM spying could have. So that's part of why I brought them up. The other reason that I stated the possibility so strongly (much more strongly than I actually believed they existed) was to try to get people to be a little bit more cautious about their roleclaims. (Which... obviously didn't work particularly well. >>) PM spying gets people to be a little more careful about what they say in PMs, and I was hoping to be able to use that. Hmm. True, you may be tunneling at this point. I actually don't mind that much, though (although I might if it gets me lynched...). Because the difference here is that you don't just go over the same old points. You respond to my defenses and get some actual discussion going. Much better than just "El is evil", end of story. So thanks for that! ...I just remembered that I should probably go to bed early tonight given that I'm taking the ACT tomorrow. May or may not finish that post about what I think of everyone. We'll see what happens. And I still have two more Codex Alera books to finish... Hmm. Priorities, priorities. Until then, though, questions to the thread that everyone should answer if they have nothing else to say: What's your opinion on me and the votes on me? What do you think of Aman? What about Meta and the votes on him? Who do you think should be Mayor? EDIT: Stupid formatting.
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We were talking about them because Joe raised the point that the remaining eliminators were likely new and I asked why. Thank you for getting us back to the discussion at hand, though. ...Point, about the weaves. So if Wilson's Channeler is evil, we're back to square one with Elodin. Again. >> And why is Joe cleared? I agree that he's soft-confirmed by Nyali leaving, but I wouldn't consider that being "cleared". I'm going to have to leave for dance soon, unfortunately, but I'm writing up a post of my thoughts on everyone and will post it when I get back. We really need to get more discussion going, though. I think everyone's kind of waiting for someone to come on and say "I'm a Thief-taker and I scanned __ targeting Wilson last night" or whatever, so we have a definite lynch target. But that's not how discussion happened. There have been three votes on me and a couple on Meta (who I'm not in favor of lynching at the moment because I have no reason beyond gut alone to suspect him - he has been quiet recently, however, so if you're not busy with RL or whatever, Meta, could you post please? - also side note to this, Phatt, it'd be nice if you would say something actually game-related rather than just metagame discussion). Does anyone else have any alternative lynch candidates? Until I get back, I'll vote on Conquestor to get the discussion going. He's been tunneling on Elodin being Fain quite a lot, and hasn't actually talked about much else for quite a while. Not the best of reasoning, I know, but it's all I have time for right now. EDIT: Ninja'd by Winter. Hmph. EDIT 2: Retracted vote.
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Luckat was also in LG10, yup. Although she joined in LG2. So technically she's even older than you. EDIT: Luckat was also in MR4.
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Yeah. There are a couple of people like that which came as a surprise to me. Phatt's played 27, and Araris has played 35. I'm not entirely sure how that happened. Point is, at least from my perspective, Sart's one of the more experienced players. Your perspective is obviously different since you've been playing since LG3, so you base your opinion of players on how well they perform more than when they joined, at least more than I do. But if I were making up a traditional team with some experienced and some not, Sart would definitely go in the experienced category. That said, we still have no idea as to the makeup of the rest of the team. Could be more newer players to make up for Sart's experience. Could be more experienced players to make up for Gunshy's newness. It was almost certainly RNG, anyway. So I don't think we can count on the rest of the evil team being new or experienced. We'll just have to see. EDIT: And yeah, Sart was in LG10.
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...He's played more games than Wilson has. EDIT: Or Luckat, actually. 22 to Luckat's 20 and Wilson's 16.
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Meh. I can see where you're coming from. I still think it's unlikely, since they've lost enough already without sacrificing more just to kill Wilson. Particularly if there are only four of them, which I think is possible given that there's also the Corrupted to contend with. I don't think there'll be more than five, at least, and they still need to outnumber everyone else to win. Killing themselves - even for an advantage like killing a high threat level player - is not going to help them towards that goal, in my opinion. Just because the Channeler's burned out doesn't mean they can't add to the numbers. (I may be biased in that I've been reading a lot of old games with smaller teams recently, so I'm more inclined to assume four than I should be. But I doubt there'll be more than five, unless anyone has a good argument otherwise.) But sure, I suppose I could see a newer team doing it. Just because I wouldn't trade an eliminator life for hers doesn't mean that some people wouldn't make that choice. Although... Joe, how has what we've seen of the Darkfriends so far match up with them having newer players? We've killed two, one experienced and one completely new. They've killed one person. Wilson. That's all of the evidence we have, and that doesn't point towards more new players particularly to me. Not sure where you're getting that.
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Because the Darkfriends wouldn't have killed her if that meant their Channeler would die two cycles down the line. They've had enough losses already. They're not going to self-inflict more. EDIT: Unless they were redirected by a Ta'veren, I suppose. That's the only other possibility.
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I don't know for certain. I heard that there was through Wilson, but I don't know that she or whoever claimed to her wasn't lying. However, if Orlok's Channeler turns out not to be a Darkfriend, it seems somewhat likely because I don't think the village would have two Channeler/Warder pairs (both of which are entirely village) while the Darkfriends have none. (And if there is another pair, one of them is almost guaranteed to be a Darkfriend for that reason - three village-only pairs? That's a bit much.)
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Ah, isn't it just splendid to wake up in the morning and see three votes on me... I actually disagree. It depends on who Padan is, but there are very few good reasons to wait on converting. Fain needs to use up all of his conversions before he dies, which matters more than getting someone with a specific role. Sure, a Wolfbrother or a Viewer or a Ta'veren would be great, but that's of secondary importance to getting as many people as possible. And with the number of possibilities of being blocked, he's not guaranteed to get a conversion even if he does Corrupt every cycle. So unless Fain is someone who has magically escaped all suspicion up to this point (and I'm pretty sure there's almost no one in that category) and thus didn't feel at all in danger of dying, he definitely should have corrupted last night regardless of whether he knew roles or not. (Whether he did isn't the same question, since just because I think it's good strategy for him to have converted doesn't mean Fain did. But I do think it's likely.) I disagree with multiple things here, but they're all about what I would and wouldn't do if I were Fain, so I'm aware you have no reason to believe me. But if I were planning on converting Joe, I would already have a formed opinion about it. So I wouldn't be going "I guess" and "I suppose", like I was, since I added those qualifiers because it was a new idea. And I don't think I'd convert Joe. I might, given that he is a somewhat strategic choice, but there are other choices that I'd be more interested in because I've already converted him once, after all. More interesting to work with someone new. (Again, you don't have any reason to believe that, but it's true.) Because if there wasn't another Whitecloak, we'd have Gunshy guaranteed to have detained Elodin, which is a useful piece of information (although it doesn't clear him until we can prove that he's a Dreamwalker, which we have not yet). A second Whitecloak means that's not guaranteed. You did assure me that that that Whitecloak didn't detain Elodin, but even that doesn't mean that there isn't a third Whitecloak out there who did. Was it unlikely that the Darkfriends would have the only Whitecloak? Probably, yeah. But I was hoping for it anyway, until you mentioned a second Whitecloak. That's why I was annoyed. Um, how did she confirm Bard as innocent? Maybe I'm misremembering, but I'm pretty sure that's not what happened...The reasons I thought it was a good plan were 1) I wasn't aware that it wouldn't make Fain lose a charge (I thought about it but forgot to ask Gamma, so I was assuming it would), 2) I wasn't thinking of it in the context of Joe being Ta'veren but only a conversion target being detained, and 3) anything that causes no conversion is a good plan. And you could learn a lot from that, too. Whoever you mentioned it to would be slightly more cleared, and you could narrow down the suspects for Fain to an extent by who would and wouldn't convert him. And I don't really understand why detaining Jaime is any better of a plan. (I wouldn't - no offense, Jaime) What kind of assumption is that? If I had tried to convert her and failed, she could have been targeted by Mask of Mirrors, or detained, or be a Dreamwalker. Or someone had roleblocked me. I'm not sure whether there'd be a distinction there. Point being, there's lots of options (all of which I was discussing in detail with a few people last night, for a related situation). And Mask of Mirrors is probably the least likely of them, and wouldn't even guarantee that she was in fact a Channeler (although it would be somewhat likely given that I don't think anyone else would use Mask of Mirrors on her). Why would she use Mask of Mirrors on herself, anyway? I don't see much value in that. So no. I would not assume that. That would be dumb. (Nor would I convert her, in all probability - there are several people in this game that I want to be evil with, and I'm not giving away that chance.) There are certainly plenty of possibilities, as I mention just above. The Detainment target could be Fain, yes. Or Fain tried to target whoever was detained (whether Jaime or a third Whitecloak's target, which I give even odds for existing). Or targeted someone with Mask of Mirrors used on them. Or was roleblocked. Or targeted a Dreamwalker. That's one in five possibilities (discounting other things like knowing a Thief-taker was going to be targeting them and having no choice but to take no action, which is possible but rather unlikely). Is it something we should ignore? No. Is it the sort of situation where the Whitecloak should come forward and reveal and then we kill the detainee? Certainly not. That was my point. I don't really understand how being Fain correlates to talking about PM safety/roleclaiming/secret roles. If anything, I'd try to downplay that as Fain since I'd want claims and such. I talked about those things because I thought they needed to be discussed and reiterated (and because they were a worthwhile way to contribute to the thread when I was also traveling). "The most connected among them"? Can you clarify what that means? Wilson had reason to believe I wasn't Padan. That reason did not involve me being her Channeler. In fact, that reason makes less sense than the actual one - why would me being her Channeler automatically clear me to her? Also, had a thought last night regarding that same Channeler. They're now confirmed not Darkfriend, because the Darkfriends wouldn't have killed someone who would then kill their Channeler two cycles down the road. That wouldn't make any sense. So while the Channeler isn't confirmed not Corrupted, they are confirmed not Darkfriend. Corollary to this: Wilson was of the opinion that there was a Darkfriend Channeler, almost definitely, and I'd agree. It's a role that would be very useful indeed to the Darkfriends, but not OP for them because they can only use each power once. So that'll be either Orlok's Channeler (which we will find out by the end of today) or the last remaining Warder/Channeler pair. I don't know who either of those people are - but if you're the Warder, you should definitely not be trusting your Channeler right now. It's not necessarily true that they're a Darkfriend... but it does seem somewhat likely. I'm not advocating that they be lynched/killed right now, but I do think it pays to be careful. I wonder if someone can get voted Mayor and lynched in the same turn... Also, there was no Dragon's Fang again. Not sure what to think of that, but it bears pointing out. More thoughts on topics other than myself to come later. Oh, one more thing - Wanted to point this out. This is a good example of explaining a vote on someone. This is not tunneling. It's laying out his suspicions in good order so that they can be responded to and everyone else can deem them right or not. This is what there should be more of. Not necessarily this long or thorough, but something to explain your vote clearly. That's why I don't suspect Aman right now. He has actual (although wrong) reasoning for his vote, which is one of the hardest things for eliminators to do. He may in fact be the person I'm least suspicious of right now, replacing Jaime because while I do trust her, that was based on gut whereas this is on reasoning. So... Aman.EDIT: I'm not going to bother to fix the colors. Just pretend all of the quotes are purple. EDIT 2: Retracted Mayoral vote.
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I agree with Maill, but I currently lack the brain capacity to write up my point with a reasonable amount of coherence, so I shan't. Also, I'd really prefer to keep this kind of discussion for the night when we have nothing else to discuss, rather than the day in which we also have a lynch to carry out. On that note, I agree that we should get a new Mayor. I'll be Mayor if people want me to be, but in the interest of providing another candidate to vote for, I'd like to nominate Jaime. She's actually probably the person I trust the most right now, due to mostly gut. (If she is an eliminator I shall be very impressed and not that displeased to have been fooled.) You may or may not hear from me for the rest of the night. Depends on if I see anything I really want to respond to. If not, I'm just going to be finishing Cursor's Fury (and potentially also Captain's Fury if I get too absorbed), since I finally got it from the library. EDIT: Retracted mayoral vote.
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Ah, that does make more sense. Yeah... If we knew for certain we'd be catching Fain with that detainment, it'd definitely be worth it. But as it is? There are so many different possibilities that it's not necessarily even all that likely that the detainee is Fain. So... I personally would advise not claiming. But then, I usually do.
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This is what kind of gave the impression you didn't know.
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Someone was detained, Seonid. It's in the writeup. Which also means there's at least one more Whitecloak out there, which is fun. We can't guarantee that Elodin was detained by Gunshy now, which is unfortunate. (Although I'm still not sure what conclusion to draw from that if Gunshy was the one to detain him... Kinda depends on whether Elodin was a Dreamwalker or not.) There was also only one Wolfbrother kill (on a Wisdom ), which seems kind of like an inactive kill? I feel like Phatt's been more inactive than Twei, though, so I'm not sure what to think about that. That one Wolfbrother kill means that (discounting the possibility of the Wolfbrother not targeting Elodin and getting detained/RBed/targeting someone else untargetable anyway, which I sincerely hope did not happen) either Elodin is in fact a Dreamwalker (which doesn't really say much about his alignment unless Gunshy was the one who targeted him) or he's a Darkfriend (non-Dreamwalker) and the Darkfriends have a Channeler who just used Mask of Mirrors on them. I'm not sure there's any way to tell, unfortunately. So he's not cleared yet. He'd have to be targeted again tonight to make sure. And Wilson's dead, which is sad. As is her Channeler, soon, and Orlok's Channeler as well. I think in this case it's probably not a case of her Channeler being targeted and Wilson taking the fall, whereas we won't be able to guess with Orlok until his Channeler dies or reveals. Not that that helps much... That's everything I can think of that we can learn from last night. Anyone else have something to add?
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(Those links are the same...)
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No. He asked in thread. Regarding Wolfbrother kills... I would be being hypocritical if I said they shouldn't kill, because I know for a fact that when I get one again I'm going to go full-out vigilante. I do think that kill roles have to be careful about who they kill, but they shouldn't not go after their suspicions just because they're villagers or scared of the consequences or whatever. The point of having a kill role is to use it. Should you use it every turn even if you have no suspicions? Maybe not. But I do think it shouldn't just be completely unused. As for what there is to discuss - there's always something to discuss. How do you think we should find the Corrupted? Who are the last two or three Darkfriends, based on Sart and Gunshy's death? Can you think of any way to solve the problem with Elodin getting targeted by a Channeler? I can guarantee that you're not too paranoid.
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I think Lopen asked for the one who went after Orlok to go after Elodin, which hopefully they will do. I would guess the one who killed DC is going after Phatt, but I suppose we don't know that for a fact. Well, but that's the problem. Roleclaims may make you more inclined to trust that person, but there's no actual reason for that. As far as I'm aware, there's no rule magically preventing the eliminators from claiming their role and gaining your trust. So why wouldn't they? Phatt, if you don't want to die, I suggest you contribute something to the discussion. Just saying.
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I don't want roleclaims. No one should be roleclaiming to me without a reason to trust me. No one should be roleclaiming to anyone without a reason to trust them, or at least without a reason. >>
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Well, in that case, the same could be said for me, given that I'm working on depictions right now. Not PMs though. Is it just me, or have PMs been really quiet since around when turnover was supposed to be?
