Elbereth
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Right, I managed to get some time, happily. So, lots of thoughts. First is something of a comment that I wrote up earlier without internet access, in response to Meta's suspicion on Lopen/Sart for being Darkfriend companions. Parts have been made obsolete or already said, but I think it's still worth saying: Regarding Meta's point againts Lopen - I agree that it's not a very valid point for actual suspicion (regardless of whether it actually is actual suspicion, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if it wasn't). That seems like a very risky eliminator move at the beginning of the game without much benefit. It's the first cycle. It's not all that likely that we'll actually lynch an eliminator, and if we did but the mayor managed to reverse that, both the lynchee and the mayor would immediately fall under suspicion. Sure, the Mayor may stick around for a few cycles (although I kind of doubt it - particularly since people are definitely going to get paranoid about whoever's currently in power), but as Nyali commented, it seems like more of an endgame thing, at least as far as usefulness to the eliminators go. Now, the Mayor is useful early game. But I'd argue that it's not so useful for its vote manipulation power, really. It's useful because of the increased attention focused on the Mayor. It's a subject of discussion, for one, and it's a very good way of showing who people trust. And more than that, it puts a lot of responsibility on the Mayor, and we get to see what he/she does with that. In fact, I'd say it'd be almost strategic to elect people we suspect and see what they do with their powers. I say almost, of course, because putting power into the hands of people we think are our enemies just to see what happens seems... unwise. And plus, we already have a lynch for suspicions. Use that, if you want to accuse someone. This is essentially the opposite: Who do you trust? Which is nearly as useful, I'd say, and having both elections is almost two lynches for the price of one, in a way. That's as far as I got with that. I was going to go into maybe electing newer players to see what they did with the power, but several people have said similar things, so I won't bother. Right, onto the multiquotes. Yeah, she wasn't. She was a Sharder the whole time. But agreed. You're not alone... To be fair, it is somewhat typical of Strawman to do something like that. Doesn't mean I like it. Two points from this post. First, the defense of Sart reminded me of a thought I had in his defense somewhat: Sart is a relatively infrequent player, now. He's played five games in all the time I've been here. And when he was playing more, there often actually was discussion of whether to have a D1 lynch. So from that perspective, it's easier to understand why he brought it up.Do I think that should let him of the hook? No. I don't. It's not a good thing to bring up, and he's probably the person I'm most suspicious of at the moment. But he does have a different perspective, so I can kind of understand why he'd bring that up as a villager. (Also, my point doesn't actually clear him at all, because I'd say from that perspective he'd be equally likely to bring up D1 lynches as an eliminator or a villager. But I thought it was worth pointing out.) Second. The last part of your post? Agreed. So, so much. We're already looking at active players in the lynch discussion like Meta, Wilson, Lopen, etc. The Mayor role might force some more reluctant or quieter players out of their comfort zone into the spotlight, and I think that would be a lot more revealing. So... hmm. The player I think would be most appropriate for what I'm proposing would be maybe Winter? But at the same time, I find her slightly suspicious, so I'm not currently willing to vote her Mayor (but also unwilling to actually vote for her, since it's slight suspicion). I think I'm going to abstain for now and try to vote tonight when I get on in four hours or so. Fair point. If I were at home, I'd probably be able to find a good discussion and link it to you for reference (or write one up myself inside a spoiler so no one has to read it unless they really want to). Unfortunately, I'm not, for the moment. So if anyone else wants to, please do. Otherwise, anyone who wants to talk about that kind of thing, PM me tonight and we can discuss it individually. (Normally I'd resort to that as the first course of action since that way no one else has to read it, but since there aren't any PMs during the day and the issue will be partly obsolete once night comes, given that the topic is D1 lynches.)Alv is. He always is. (I don't expect you to understand that reference - he's not playing this game. But he definitely is watching from the shadows and probably laughing to himself, too.) Sounds good. I'll still retain paranoia, of course, but I recall that conversation and I'm actually willing to believe that. Maybe. Ish. I mean... Look at what I did in LG16, when I was a Strongarm. (I only used it twice, once on Lopen and once on Twei. (the particular power changed their vote to my own)) Look at LG17, when I was Well-connected. (Used it twice, both times on Ripple, apparently. I died early that game, though.) Look at MR11. (Well, ish. It was only two-use, I used it once, and that wasn't my choice it was my teammates telling me what to do and me blindly following.) Look at LG18, actually, for a good example. I used it multiple times, never really to great effect or interesting differences. Mostly moving things onto the current undisputed lynch target or someone completely random. I liked moving players' votes onto themselves, and also moving my own vote. Oh, and I actually had four votes that game, but I never used them until I voted for Hael like 18 times in a row because I was irritated at him. (Which I'm not anymore, mostly, because I've gotten to kill him three times since then. That was enough to sate my thirst for vengeance.) That's... about all. Now, obviously, these are different. They're vote manipulation, rather than an extra vote or a Soothing-type role. Neither of which I've technically had (except in LG18, in which I had Rioting, Soothing, and four votes, kinda), but I think my vote manipulation roles do seem to say I wouldn't do any better with this. I'm willing to try, but... I'm not really sure I'm the best candidate for that. At all. Yeah. I think that's enough for the moment. I'll be able to respond to people for another half hour or so, but then I get to go see a play! (Another play, actually! I already saw Great Expectations today, and it was fantastic.) So I'll be back for real around three-four hours from now.
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I like it. Also, if you don't want spoilers, don't read the LG2 evil doc. Not that you were going to (because why would anyone do such a thing? ), but I thought of you when reading through it. Yeah. I mean, I will vote if I'm Mayor. I'll use the power. Because it gives more credence to my own vote, which is nice because I know I'm innocent. (Although, as always - confirmed good does not mean confirmed right. Even when it's applied to yourself.) But I don't think I would be the person to most effectively use it, so I'm really not sure electing me is the best decision. Also, this is actually going to be the last post until at least 12 hours from now, as far as I'm aware. I mean it this time. Bye. EDIT: Oh, also, forgot to say. Putting your character in your member title is good, too. Arguably better than in your username. Follow Lopen's example, not mine. His idea is better.
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Yay for breakfast places with wifi. Just be happy with the fact that I have the exact same problem with you. And thanks! I was really excited when I realized this morning: I'm not GMing anymore! I can change my profile pic again! I really like this one too. I think I'll keep it for a while. ...What the rusts? Seriously. ??? I'm getting paranoid that at least one of the people voting for me is a Darkfriend trying to implicate me for getting so many votes so quickly, because obviously the eliminators would want to be Mayor as much as they could. But even then, why not actually vote one of their own in? It's the first cycle, sure, so it doesn't matter that much, but still. What the storms.
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Was going to make this an edit, but Nyali posted so I don't have to! (Why am I saying more things instead of going to eat breakfast? ...Not really sure...) Other thought regarding PM spying: So, I know the situation I described is very unlikely. It would require there being a secret PM spy role, and that role not seeing the names of the players involved. Both of those are unlikely, and together they're quite improbable. So I'm not going to be putting too much effort into people not being able to identify me/whoever I'm PMing. But really, not saying a name isn't a ton of effort. If someone's going to spy on you, at least make them deduce who you are. Don't give it to them on a silver platter. And besides, they can always get it wrong (someone did in MR14 for quite a while). If you use names, there's no chance of that. That said, general PM safety rules still stand. It is still unlikely, but much less so, that there's PM spying at all, in which case roleclaiming is a very bad idea. (It's also a bad idea in normal circumstances. PM spying just makes it much, much worse.) So please don't. Not without good reason. Couple of minor points: Another good way of telling people your character name if it doesn't particularly fit your username is putting it in parentheses after your username at the top of posts (as I have just done). Obviously, if you do this for every game you'll have problems because 1) multiple games happening at once and 2) you can only change it 5 times a month, but usually nowadays we don't have this much naming of characters in a game, so for the most part that's not going to be a problem. To be fair, that half-claiming had nothing to do with your death, and in fact somewhat helped with finding eliminators later. Not that I don't agree with your point, but the example doesn't show your point particularly well, I think. Okay, I was going to talk about the Sart/Lopen/Meta IKYK discussion in this post, but I'm hungry, so it can wait until tonight. For now, I'm going to get breakfast.
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o.O Um... okay? I'm... really not sure why either of you are voting for me. And- well, basically what Wilson just said. I'm not opposed to being Mayor, but neither is it something I'm particularly going to go after. Because I don't think I would use it to best effect, really. Partly because I don't vote all that often (I've gotten better than my nine consecutive cycles without voting in my first game, but that I even had that starting point tells you something about my voting tendencies), and partly because I've had a lot of vote manipulation roles, and I don't think I've put them to particularly good use. (LG16, LG17, MR11, and LG18, and maybe one more that I can't think of at the moment. Out of playing ten or twelve games total EDIT: actually apparently fifteen now. Should have checked before posting. Huh.) So... I would be willing to accept being Mayor (because at least then I know it's not in the hands of a Darkfriend/Corrupted), but I'm really not all that interested in the power itself. So I won't vote for myself for Mayor, at least not right now. I'll try to figure out who I want to vote for tonight. Maill, forgive me if I still doubt your claims. It's you. But I'll keep them in mind, I suppose. Happy? Just wanted to comment on this really quick. This is absolutely fine. In fact, having a perspective of ignorance about everyone can actually be a good thing. Is knowing someone's previous playstyle better and easier to catch eliminators? Probably, yeah. But a new perspective can see a lot of things that a player influenced by the past can't. Things like, say, accusing players with high threat levels - which is something I, at least, am very careful about doing and don't do without fairly solid evidence. But you made me look at Meta more closely, for instance, by accusing him basically out of the blue. And that's a good thing. (I tend to fall a little on Lopen's side of the IKYK argument, actually. Maybe I'll write out my opinion on that tonight. For now this post is already too long, unfortunately.)And don't worry. People will tell you when something you've pointed out is just part of someone's normal playstyle. That's totally fine. So go ahead, throw accusations around like frisbees! That's how you find eliminators, after all, when you get back down to fundamentals. Throw in some accusations and see what bubbles to the top.
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Well, I multiquoted seven posts, but I don't have time to address them all individually since I'm travelling, so I'll summarize. General thoughts: 1. I was also going to link to that post of Kas'. (Although I will thank you for doing it first, Wilson, since I would have had to go find it in the dead doc again, which might have taken a while.) I agree with Wilson. Lynch discussion is good regardless of whether someone dies at the end. Discussion of whether to have a lynch is never useful. And in this case, I'd say not all discussion is good discussion, almost, because this just enables eliminators to declare their already well-known and well-established opinions about a D1 lynch, which tells absolutely nothing about their alignment. So... yeah. Not useful. 2. Roleclaiming! Lopen already mentioned I'll be on everyone's case about this. There has been far too much claiming and trust in recent games, and it needs to stop. It really, really does. (I don't have the time to devote as much effort to this as I'd like, but I'll definitely try to speak my piece before the day ends.) So. Unless you are fakeclaiming (i.e. Maill), do not claim to anyone you do not trust completely. And fyi, "trust completely"≠"think might be good because of a gut read maybe?". Please. 3. Kind of corollary to that, kind of separate - One secret role has already been revealed. Obviously, Gamma is trying to make us paranoid about how many more secret roles there are in the game (which is right and proper). For all we know, there aren't any! But... that seems like a risky and not very useful assumption to make. So I'm going to start with the assumption that secret roles do exist. And for all we know, there's something like... PM spying, for instance. Unlikely, but possible. So keep that in mind? Please? Even basic PM safety like not starting your message with "Hey Joe, it's Hellscythe!" is worth it, in my opinion. It's not like it takes much effort to leave that kind of thing out, and there is certainly a good deal of potential gain. 4. Yes, I'm turning into Kas temporarily. Sorry. Hmm, maybe I'll officially make that my playstyle this game... could be interesting. Anyway. 5. Sart, successfully lynching an eliminator is not the only advantage of a D1 lynch. We may not have lynched one successfully in a while (Shallan? I think? Not sure what game that was... LG17 maybe?), but we have certainly gotten close, and that can tell us a good deal later. (For instance, Aman was pretty close to being lynched in LG21. The circumstances of that lynch were one of the main things that put Rae under suspicion.) 6. May or may not put down a vote on Sart later; for now I should probably go to bed (not putting a vote down now because 1. I don't really trust myself to make that kind of decision when I'm this tired, and 2. I do suspect him, but I'm not sure another vote would do all that much since he's already got a lot of pressure on him. 3. I dislike voting. Habit I'm trying to break. Don't really feel like trying right now. ). 7. I should be on around this time to post every day while I'm travelling (i.e. until Sunday). So at least once a day, hopefully, although possibly not as long (or coherent) as I'd like. Sorry. 8. Gamma, how do you retract mayor votes? In green, or some other color? Okay, that's enough for tonight. Maybe I'll wake up early and post before breakfast. No promises, though. I need sleep. Good night.
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^That. Also, once Sheep!Hoid died and Rae wasn't Preserved anymore, there was absolutely no reason not to lynch Rae. None. And yet... It never really happened. Not even sure why. Don't do that. Please.
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Luxet kind of had her own goals. I've actually been foreshadowing it since the first writeup. She's a Fidelias-esque character, basically.
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Yeah, sorry. No players in the game had secret roles which they were aware of.
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Just because there were no secret roles doesn’t mean there weren’t any secret rules. Just that you didn’t trigger them.
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...Timing. I didn't realize until now that the game starts the same day I go traveling. So, for the first four days (until Sunday afternoon American-times) or so of this game, my activity will be basically unpredictable. I might be just as active as normal (although likely not as omnipresent). I might have one post in the entire time. At the moment, I have no way of knowing. But know that if I'm inactive, that's why. Sorry.
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It was gone before you posted. And check the tags.
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Hael... Check the GM doc. Please.
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Bugsy wasn't protected. He just didn't have any Water PMs that cycle. Are you sure about that?
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The writeup for this cycle has finally been edited in! The next cycle will be posted shortly. (I suggest reading this writeup before reading the next. It'll make much more sense.) Sorry for the delay.
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Kinda sad the game's over. I was enjoying that dead doc. I really loved what little I got to play in this game. My only regret is not staying alive long enough to actually be Hael's Agent, because that would have been amazing. Thanks to Seonid for GMing, and to everyone else for being entertaining to watch! And I shall certainly be back for the sequel.
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Yes, that is correct. The C9 writeup will effectively be the Aftermath writeup.
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Sorry. Missed it.
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Cycle 5: Best Friends Forever “It was him! I saw him do it! Vorax pushed Sienis into the oncoming dagger.” Praetoria yelled out, pointing at Vorax. “Die, Traitor!” He drew his sword and charged forward. In a blur, Dominus dashed forward, blocking Praetoria’s strike an inch away from Vorax’s neck. “Stand down soldier.” He waited until the fury died down in Praetoria’s eyes. “Now explain yourself.” “Sir, last night, when Gammax threw the blade, once the target shifted, I saw Legionare Vorax shove Sienis into the way of the blade. He must be a traitor.” The last few soldiers to wake were up by this point. “Did anyone else see this happen? Can anyone verify this?” There was a low muttering, but no one stepped forward. “Fine. Praetoria, unless you bring me proof, you are not to make any further attempt to kill Legionare Vorax. Is that understood.” Praetoria nodded. Satisfied that the situation was resolved for now, Dominus ordered the troops to be ready to head out in 15 minutes. “Keep an eye on Vorax for me, if you will,” he muttered to Luxet. She saluted. ... Vorax paced beside Luxet at the back of the troop. “Ugh,” he complained. “Why’d Praetoria have to attack me? Why did he have to see-” Luxet turned quickly to shoot a look at him. He cut off abruptly. “Why’d he think he saw me pushing Sienis?” Luxet frowned, but said nothing. “Almost makes you want to go mad, doesn’t it,” he sighed, watching Luxet idly conjure a flame at the tip of her index finger. “Hmm?” she murmured. “Like Gammax, you know? He certainly went bonkers at the end, for revenge or despair or whatever reason he had. I would never have thought he’d do a thing like that. I didn’t even understand why he did, at the time. But now…” “Now?” she prompted, watching the little flame flicker in the sunlight. “I almost understand where he was coming from. We can’t win, you know?” he said. “Against the Canim?” Luxet asked softly, but he didn’t hear her. “There’s no way, now. I don’t want to be a failure. I’d rather die than go back with empty hands. And that’s why Gammax did it, isn’t it. That’s why he sacrificed himself. Because he knew he had no chance of surviving.” “And if you have no chance of surviving, might as well go out doing something that counts, hmm?” Luxet said. He didn’t seem to realize he was talking to her anymore, staring off past her burning finger into the distance. “Yes,” he said suddenly. His eyes focused sharply again. “Yes.” He looked at her with fire in his eyes, although Luxet wasn’t sure if he actually saw her. “That’s it! That’s it exactly! This is what I’ve been missing. I don’t know how, but Gammax was right. This feels right.” “What, you’re going to go out and burn our supplies too? You think you can find something to burn after Gammax?” she asked somewhat sarcastically. She frowned, and the little snakelike fire fury that was coiled up on her finger rose higher. “Yes,” he said with certainty. “That’s exactly what I’m going to do, albeit with my own particular strengths. And no one, no one, can stop me.” He didn’t wait for a response, but ran towards the front of the line. “Bloody crows!” Luxet said, loud enough that a couple of nearby legionares turned to stare at her. She didn’t curse often, and when she did something was seriously wrong. The fire on her finger vanished, as did her quietly attentive attitude. “Stop Vorax!” she ordered sharply. “He’s a traitor. I think he’s going after what’s left of our supplies, but he might just get the bright idea to kill the Optio while he’s at it.” No one waited to hear anything more. Everyone sprinted after Vorax, except Luxet. She called up her wind fury and sent it to Dominus. After waiting a moment for the chaos of the running legionares to subside, she spoke. “Sir.” “Tesserarius. What am I hearing?” he said tersely. “Vorax is a traitor, sir,” she reported. “I firecrafted a confession out of him, but he got… a bit enthusiastic, and decided to copy Gammax’s sacrifice.” “Meaning?” “Meaning that he’s going after our supplies. Although…” she hesitated. “If he sees you, he might decide to attack you instead. I wouldn’t be surprised. And he’s strong enough that even if he didn’t kill you, he could do some damage.” “I can’t stand by while our supplies are being destroyed, and I could stop him,” Dominus said with frustration. “Send others to deal with him, then. Just don’t let him see you.” “I… Fine.” Luxet heard him giving orders. She listened for a moment, then terminated the connection. Then she finally began jogging after the other legionares up to where Vorax was fighting. ... Vorax grinned madly, lunging at Glaive. It was a move they’d done together a hundred times in training, but this time it was real. As always, Glaive turned his blade aside and neatly countered with a downward slash. Vorax laughed, dodging easily by drawing on his air fury. “You do that every time, Glaive!” he called. “Good thing we’re friends, or I’d kill you for being predictable! But I’m not going after you.” He turned and continued moving towards the supplies. “There’s still food to destroy!” He sped himself along with his furycrafting, outpacing Glaive. “Hey, actually, if you destroy those packs, I can take care of these ones, and we’ll be done!” Glaive’s attack faltered. “Uh, what?” “Don’t just stand there! Destroy stuff! You are my friend, right?” Glaive spluttered. “I… what even.” “Hey what are you doing, Glaive?” Priam called out. “Vorax has gone mad!” Glaive called back, advancing on Vorax once again. Vorax’s mad grin grew larger. “Oooh, more people! Wanna help me and friend Glaive break stuff? It’ll be so muc.. Erk…” His smiled drooped as he looked down to see Glaive’s blade stuck through his middle. He looked back up. “But I thought you were my friend…” he wheezed has his last breath left his body. Cloudjumper was lynched! He was a Traitor with Tier 1 Air and Tier 1 Earth! Conquestor was attacked by a metalcrafter, but did not die! Vote Tally: Cloud(5): Lopen, Bugsy, Cloud, Conquestor, Mailliw Joe(1): Joe Amanuensis(1): SilverDragon Player List Cycle 5 has begun! You have 48 hours to choose someone to lynch and send in actions. EDIT: The vote count was off.
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Cycle is over! Writeup will be up in a while.
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>> This is what happens when email notifications stop working temporarily.
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The writeup has (finally) been edited in. Three hours left in this cycle.
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I'm working on it, Kynedath. Entirely my fault for the delay.
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...Um. No. No he did not.
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As a general rule, if you come up with the game, you are the GM. You run the show. I just help with whatever you need. I like this idea. Very, very much.
