Elbereth
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Everything posted by Elbereth
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Killing him gains us more information for interactions, sure. But the reverse is also true. Ryuk converting someone gains him more information as well, and more influence over the lynch and potentially the murderer kill.And while I'd agree that the chance of failing a conversion is slightly higher than a successful protection (depending on how good the police are at guessing kill targets), look at the numbers. Three officers have died thus far. Two were Corrupted, true. But I'm not sure how many protectors there can be left. And Joe already knows one of them. So that seems quite unlikely to fail as well. Him being Ryuk is a good point towards lynching him, and it's not like he's going to be helpful from here on out. Even so, though. I don’t think we should kill him, personally. If we are killing him, though, I definitely say we should have the murderers kill him, not the lynch. This way we’re stagnating discussion for the rest of the day, unless we make a secondary murderer lynch. And if we’re going to that, we might as well just lynch someone and let the murderer make the kill.
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Recruiting a Holder actually has the same effect as killing someone, in regards to win conditions. One less person on the Village side. So I don't think there's a benefit there. First point is valid, though. I hadn't thought of that. That is a good reason to kill him, at least at some point. I doubt it, though. Also, except for you and Maill, all of the players left are newer or brand new. So I'd agree, but that's not too helpful.
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I assumed that Aman's death was by Murderer? There were three deaths, after all. Conquestor died to the lynch, Meta died to Ryuk, and Aman died to a Murderer. I think.
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Elodin, what the heck. Why in the name of sanity are you believing a claimed Holder? About anything, let alone something like Ryuk's identity? That said. I don't know if we should lynch Joe. It wastes all discussion for today (although we can mitigate that by setting up a secondary lynch for the murderers, probably), plus just makes Ryuk's job easier. A kill and a conversion are to a certain extent the same thing, in that both of them get rid of one Villager. Plus, if we kill the Holder, we have no idea who the next one will be. A known threat is better than an unknown, in my opinion. We don't really care about the Holder. Ryuk's the important one to find and kill.
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Awesome! Cloudjumper. Thanks for joining us! Do you have any thoughts on anyone else, or on Joe's plan?
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I apologize, my lord. I had no wish to deprive you of your pleasure.
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Word of advice: Don't ask Alv questions with loopholes in them. It's not going to get you anywhere.
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I thought about doing that, but Webs hadn't even been on in a week, last I checked. So that's unlikely to help. I will, however, put a vote on Cloudjumper again. Please, post! Just a "hi" would do.
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I am the queen of ninja's. This has been well established.It's a skill. ThatTiny, while those numbers are nice, they'd be a lot more useful with reasoning attached. That way, people you suspect can defend themselves, which just furthers the discussion. As opposed to your numbers, which don't say why you suspect someone, just that you do. And I agree with Sheep on the system not making much sense. What happens if someone's suspicious more than five times? Are they 120% suspicious? He couldn't have been converted. Ryuk already had a holder, and they aren't dead. So he can't convert anyone else, yet. He could be a Holder and have been since the start of the game, though. But if that were the case, I think L would have told someone (probably Sheep) who could reveal to the thread, after he scanned as guilty. So barring secret role shenanigans, or an L who's unwilling to say that Joe scanned as Guilty (which seems very unlikely given his willingness to share his own role...), I'd say that Joe's probably not an eliminator.Edited for clarification.
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Hmm. Not sure what he's talking about, then. Unless it's that I messed up how Murderers work? I don't really see how that could be construed as suspicious either, though... Whatever. Not much I can do about it now, anyway.
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A Ripple Effect as in me making a typo that implies I'm an eliminator, or making a typo that I'm then lynched over but actually innocent? Because I'm guessing you mean the first, even though the second is what actually happened. If that's the case, I'd guess he's talking about how I said "the Ryuk" instead of just "Ryuk" a couple of times, since I haven't seen the anime. Not totally certain how that could imply l'm an eliminator, though?
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Thanks. Con, you're fine. I was talking to Joe.
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"Oh, that note was you?" Elbe said. "Might have been nice of you to identify yourself in that note, you know." She shook her head. "M is considering your offer." She turned to the rest of the group. "Will there be anything else, or shall I leave you to your discussion?" Joe, I can't help noticing that Joseph magically knows Elbe's name now. And that Elbe suddenly became El for a line.
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Elbe blinked at Con. "And what deal are you referring to, precisely?"
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Yeah, I also had a PM with Lopen. We discussed (from memory as I can't access the PM as I'm writing this) mostly out of game stuff and him being evil. He didn't want to claim to me, so I left it at that. The only other game-relevant stuff, I think, was talking about how Ryuk's unique position makes catching him different this game from normal eliminators. About the L thing, not totally sure what's going on there, but I'd agree that L seems a bit less likely to be the Holder. In which case, L, I'll add my voice to the don't claim to anyone else please group. Don't trust unscanned people with your life, particularly when you should now have scanned someone who you can trust (hopefully Joe or Sheep, since you already claimed to them and all). Also, random things: I eventually just copy-pasted the whole string. Doesn't help that technically the M is in Georgia, not normal font. Suppose it looks nice, though. I liked the first one better. Which I saved, and will likely be using soon. Also, Joe, I believe it's your turn to RP.
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Right. Well. Your plan does make more sense that way. L's actions... do not. In the slightest. L, what the heck? Why are you revealing to people who you haven't scanned? (This is a rhetorical question. I do not need an answer. Just... why.) You're literally part of the eliminator win con! Agh.
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I am the supreme ninja. :ph34r:
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Um. First off, this requires L to trust someone they haven't scanned. Someone else they haven't scanned, given they already revealed to Joe. This seems unwise. Secondly, how the heck does this help the thread verify Joe's innocence? Even if it (somehow) helps you confirm him, we have no idea whether to trust you, so that's not very helpful. Thirdly, just lynching/killing Joe would be much simpler. Just saying. "hr" inside brackets. [ hr] without the space. Very much agreed here, since there has been plenty going on. It hasn't just been poke votes, but actual discussion. So I'm not sure where you're coming from there, DC. May place a vote on you later.For now, though, I'll poke Cloudjumper. I'll retract once you post. What's your opinion on the plan? Of course. Same to you. As usual.
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I think Joe is probably a citizen, personally. If not, he's a very gutsy Holder. The plan does have advantages for a holder, since he could learn the identities of all the policemen/murderers, and the Ryuk could take out all of the policemen one by one, and know who not to convert. (And if the Ryuk does hit on someone that's unconvertable, it's guaranteed to be L.) Plus L is limited to scanning officers for a while, potentially, and not scanning Ryuk. But it seems somewhat more likely to me that he's a citizen, particularly with the speed that he put up that original plan. Joe, we don't have to anymore, but I'd say we still lynch/kill you D2, so that we can confirm your alignment. Just in case. About the lynch: Yeah, we definitely need to use it. We can't rely on L to catch Ryuk/the holder. Also, there's actually more of a chance of catching one of them than L, since there's two of them, and L could just claim and get out of the lynch, if necessary. Um, I don't really understand why a mass reveal of murderers helps us. Can you clarify that? Oh, right. Forgot about that. Not used to you doing RP. Lopen. And I make sure to keep my avatar recognizable, thank you very much. I'm not sure why this is better than L just scanning Joe? Even if he (or the Holder) does, he doesn't learn L's identity. If he claims to have protection duty, we don't tell them or the police who actually has duty. Then we scan one, and if innocent we kill the other. If 1), he would definitely be Holder. Ryuk wouldn't put himself out like that. But as I say above, it's possible, though I personally don't think it's true. 2) is very unlikely indeed. He was volunteering to be lynched, at first. That's probably not something that a policeman would do, and definitely not something L would do. 3) is definitely most likely, to me. I'd argue that the Ryuk is equally likely to be inactive as an eliminator in general, and might even tend more towards lurking, just so they don't draw attention to themselves. Maill, I don't think finding a Holder would be a waste of a cycle. Well. Not quite. Elbe held still as he whispered in her ear, nearly flinching at his tone. Well. This level of personal vendetta was... unfortunate. She'd have to warn M. "I won't lie. M would certainly kill you if it meant finding Kira sooner. Perhaps not happily, but he would. But your death would not help. Your skills, your life, is much more valuable than your death. Or you would already be dead. There's your proof that he values your lives." She turned to address the whole group. "So what's it to be? Working together to find a common enemy, or working divided against each other, and letting Kira slaughter all of you? I'm not asking you to like M. He doesn't need that. I'm just asking you to tolerate him, just for this one time. "If you agree to help M, write as much on a piece of paper in your room. He'll see." Then she gestured to Sumiko. "Since you all don't care for those records, I'm sure our resident pyromaniac would love to do the honors."
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...Lopen, for changing your avatar so I can't immediately recognize who you are. Hmph. (Also, can I just point out the lack of logic in voting for me because my name is similar to the confirmed Seeker role in this game? ) Joe, I do see one problem. What if the Ryuk claims policeman? You tell them who L is, and then they kill L. And since you're dead and so is L, there's no one else who knows the identities of every claimed policeman, unless L tells someone. So, I'd suggest telling L the identities of the claimed, but not telling the policemen who L is. Then L can scan one of them N2, and get protection by N3. Not quite as good of a result, but still not bad.
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Will respond to the RP later. But I'm pretty sure we're abandoning our old base, so that's probably up for destruction. Elbe might even lead you there, if you ask politely. Not. Also, love Joseph's character. Love love love.
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"Agreed," Elbe said, stepping into the conversation. "Kira is the threat here. All M wants to do is stop him. Just like all of you, right? So why oppose him? And in particular, why oppose him now, while Kira's still on the loose? If you want to try to take him down, that's fine. Although possibly not very healthy. But why not at least wait until after Kira's dead?" Every eye swung to her, and she nodded. "I'm here as M's emissary. As proof of his sincerity, I have a copy of each of your records. Sealed, of course." She tossed an envelope to the ground. "M is just trying to find Kira. That's all he cares about. It's your choice whether he uses your skills or your records to catch Kira." She smiled humorlessly. "I highly recommend the former. So what's it to be?" Also, Alv, I'd like to add "Oniel" as a last name. Thanks!
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Right. I mean. If you want to play devil's advocate, he could be telling the truth and have actually heired instead of Soulcasting that night. But. He would have to have two other actions (two items or an item and a role action), both of which he considered more important than Soulcasting. So no. I'm assuming you have other information that you're not sharing that makes his answers mean he didn't start with it? Or am I just ridiculously tired (tip: never take three subject tests in the same day and then go dancing afterwards; it's exhausting) and not seeing the logic there? Also, Lopen. Apologies. That makes a lot of sense. Thanks for explaining.
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Well, there could have been a third Soulcaster from the beginning of the game? (Assuming that there's someone else out there with a Soulcaster, since that person has been referenced a couple times and wasn't Elodin. Correct?) But even then it's a 50% chance. Which isn't bad at all. You're sure about this, right? It's not just a guess or secondhand information? EDIT: What I have in my notes so far for Lopen: He's defended DC and Joe. He didn't move his vote on the day when we had a ton of single votes until the last half hour or so, which I view as a small plus. (Since eliminators want mislynches if possible.) On the other hand, you could say that he tried to cause paranoia that the Grandbow user was evil. So there's that. Nothing has really stood out, though. I'm currently working through D3, so my views may or may not change as I go through.
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Elbe entered, hair still wet from the rain. She handed a few papers to M, then sat at her desk to review the video feeds from when she'd been gone. Elbe paused the recording just as the girl's lighter flicked back on again. She frowned. "Pyromania could be difficult to handle," she observed. M didn't respond: he didn't need to. She returned to watching the video feed until he pointed to the piece of paper he had left on the desk. "Send this to the lab, please, Ms. Oniel." She picked it up and read it over quickly. She looked up and arched an eyebrow, already knowing what this would likely mean. "Plan C, then?" He nodded. "It's best if we treat this as if we have been compromised. We'll have to leave everything except for the records here. We don't know what they could have contaminated." Elbe Oniel nodded grimly in response and rose, grabbing a few items, then went out without another word.
