Elbereth

I wasn't saying you're not confirmed good, Straw. I was saying that Bard also is, or is as confirmed as Cloud is. And I was also going to say that I think that's a really terrible idea anyway, but I ran out of time (and still shouldn't really be posting right now) and had to post before I could say everything I wanted to.

Uh... No. You're not. Cloud's confirmed if I am, and Bard is equally confirmed as Cloud. Chaos, I'll PM you so it doesn't clutter the thread with irrelevant stuff. Also, what Maill said. Agree with all of that completely. There's a game recently when this was discussed... QF16? Not sure.

Yay! I was just about to go and try to paraphrase stuff without using quotes so that I could post it. Perfect timing!

No. It's the same brokenness. It was like that before. Well, I suppose it was less broken at the very beginning... I'll try fixing it. Once. And then I'm going to bed regardless of what it does. >> EDIT: Nope, got nothing. Good night.

Okay, I'm going to try posting this again and then hide the original post, because it seems to have broken the forum a bit. Aww. I was worried we'd go the whole time without even one trolling eliminator post. I'm glad to be proven wrong. *proceeds to ignore* Always nice to meet a fellow Tolkien fan. So... these people didn't post last night, that I could tell: 2. Mailliw 8. Straw 12. emilylime 15. Sart 17. Amanuensis 18. Seonid Meta and Orlok also only posted briefly to excuse their inactivity. Now, do I necessarily think it was inactivity that caused the Derethi/Jeskeri not to kill? Maybe, maybe not. We still haven't gotten that response back from Mek, that I've noticed. It's possible. Not sure that it's likely. Or rather, miscommunication and such can happen just as easily as inactivity. This has been clarified (obviously I started writing this post before turnover), and it seems much more likely that it was a Merchant. (I'm a little irritated at Aman that you'd accuse me of being a Jeskeri and also say that the Jeskeri were inactive? You know better. ) Finally. I was getting a little worried as I read through the thread that no one was going to bring up a WGG but me. Glad to see someone's still paranoid enough for that. I mean, it's not a WGG, but I can't exactly prove that. I'm a little confused how that has anything to do with eramit scanning you, though? Well. Obviously that didn't work. I will mention the point that I brought up a WGG well before anyone else, when I could've just let Elenion (I think?) go on thinking that I was semi-cleared as a result. That's not particularly strong, though. The bolded is what I have problems with. So, I was the second vote to scan eramit. Which, if we were teammates, would be dumb in the first place, because I could've left that as a single vote and it probably wouldn't have gotten off the ground. Absolutely no reason for me to put my vote there. Secondly, if I did such a thing, why the storms would I drop out at the last minute? So Cloud and Eramit are both up for getting scanned. I could've shifted to Cloud and practically confirmed that (which would be the better move, since Eramit's the Gyorn) without getting any suspicion, or I could've stayed on Eramit. Either's an option. But moving off of both? Why would I do that? One of them was still getting scanned wherever I voted, and that way I wouldn't get the benefit of voting on an eliminator when that was revealed. So I see seriously no reason that I would do such a thing as a Derethi. That would be useless. Meh. I could argue that pulling scans off of those players also pulls them on to people like me (I'm pretty sure you hadn't posted your scan-non-Senators plan at that point?), and I'm arguably more valuable because I'm active, but okay. First, correction: I voted for you for four reasons. The three specifics I pointed out and gut. Second... I don't quite see that. I mean, I know it's your forte to go and try to draw attacks when you have a self-protect role, but that quote doesn't quite feel like you're doing that. That's not something that's going to make the eliminators go 'Rusts, we need to kill Aman now'. That's just my opinion, though. I always look with slightly more suspicion at people who are trying to make the village paranoid. I'm not saying it's bad advice, nor that you're necessarily an eliminator for it. It just makes me a little more suspicious. The reason I'm continuing to say you're suspicious to me is that I haven't seen anything to change my mind since D1. All of the plans you proposed, and all of the suspicions I had, were both from D1. There hasn't been much since to make me think any differently either way. You seem to have forgotten that I actually didn't follow through with it... So you're saying that I was okay with the scanning non-Senators because I knew I'd be pulling a WGG to clear myself? How do those two things even correlate? Assuming I were an eliminator, I'd be happy with the plan because it directed scans away from me, sure. But how does that have anything to do with the WGG? It's not like I'd be unhappy if we weren't doing a WGG, because then I'd have no way of being cleared because the plan would mean I couldn't be scanned. That wouldn't make any sense. To be fair, you've said outright that you don't want to be scanned either. Yes, I'm fine with being scanned; no, I don't think it's the best option because I know what the result will be. Although actually. Given how many people have weighed in on this, it might actually not be a bad thing for my alignment to get revealed. That could be useful. I'd be okay with that, then. This doesn't really have any relevance, but it makes me sad. It truly, truly does. So, as far as I can tell: Elenion thinks I'm Derethi. Aman thinks I'm more likely to be Jeskeri but isn't sure. I've addressed both as best I can. One other thing - for some reason I don't have it quoted and don't want to go back and find it, but Cloud protecting Elenion? Why? Why would you do such a thing? I mean... of the four people in the senate at the time. Elenion, myself, Bard, and Aman. Elenion is the least likely player to have been killed. Because he's new and hasn't proven himself a threat yet (you could argue that I'm an eliminator and he's going after me, which makes him dangerous to us, but I'm not arguing that because 1. I'm not, and 2. If I were I still wouldn't attack him, at least not yet, since I'd like to give him a little time to play and see if he likes it before I murder him ruthlessly. ). So why would the eliminators go after him? Really, why? If I didn't know you were village, I would be suspicious. Seriously. Regarding distancing - That was actually one of the things that made me suspect Joe in QF16. He threw a vote on Aman C1, who was then lynched and turned out evil, and... well. Stuff (Joe didn't take his vote off even though it was a really weird lynch and didn't even comment on how bizarre the lynch was even though he was on, and other things). Anyway. Deleted this by mistake so I have to rewrite it: As I said before, if that were the case, I just wouldn't have claimed to have received the scan at all. Well, I'd say that we shouldn't because he's also about to be lynched in LG23, but I also want revenge for the fall of Venture, so... I'm fine with Sart. Here's hoping the quotes work, since manual coding doesn't work very well anymore... We'll see, I guess. EDIT: Uuuuugh. Sorry. Will try to fix. If you want a nice version, come back and look in half an hour or so. EDIT 2: Right, let's try this again... EDIT 3: Well. That took a while. Third time's the charm?

Since it doesn't really relate to the point of my main post and that post is taking a while, I'll take a break to address this: You're saying you're not Jeskeri because Meta voted for you? No, Meta would never vote on a teammate just for distancing. Of course not. >> That's not proof. That's not even close to proof. *goes back to writing post*

...Yeah. Can't really argue with that. Hm. Mek, will the Merchant be informed if they were attacked?

Well, it was his birthday. I could see it. Maybe.

Oooh. Interesting. That explains part of the reason for no Jeskeri kill last cycle, then. If they didn't just hit a Merchant, I guess. Still working on my long post. It'll come. Eventually.

Maill's got it. That was not my intent at all.

I'm here (finally, sorry, it's been a busy day), and writing up a post, but I did want to point out that we're past turnover now. I don't think Maill's retraction will count. Nor any more votes now.

We'll see. My faction list already is up. The currently alive members of Venture: Me and Sart. And Sart is Spiked. I am alone...

Sart. So, Venture had for a while been discussing an alliance with the Spiked (yes, yes, house of lies and murder, I know). Last night, that paid off. The anonymous Spiked color essentially said “Kill so-and-so and we have a deal”. (I’m not including that person’s name for now because I can’t decide whether it would be better put out there or not, but it’s irrelevant to the point so I don’t see a need for the moment.) I’m the Coinshot in our faction, but rather fortunately I was observing last night for my internship and didn’t get on my doc or the Shard barely at all today, so I wasn’t able to change my order for Dow (it was essentially a placeholder for until we decided the real target for the night). So, now Bard and Rae are dead and village ( my RP partner...), and Sart and I are the only ones in our faction. And since the Spiked posted for an alliance, there must be a Spiked in our faction. I know that I’m not Spiked, so Sart has to be. I presume that I was the Spike target for tonight, but I killed Dow before he could Spike me. Oops. Obviously, Venture can’t really win now, not with soon-to-be one person left. So for the remainder of the game I’ll just be focusing on finding the Spiked and killing them in revenge for the fall of Venture. (Assuming no one kills me for being an enemy coinshot. >>)

I'm here, I didn't get the scan, it's one in the morning and I need sleep. I'll try to respond to the suspicion of me in the morning, but can't promise anything. Good night.

Hm. It's certainly possible that both attacked me. I would be surprised, but it's possible. Doesn't prove me innocent, though, unless Kesegan Monk is a village-only role. Which I don't think it is, but I could be wrong and don't have time to check. (Also, I'm female. )

Few things rather quickly before I go to bed: 1. I will be gone until turnover tomorrow, and for most of the next turn as well. I may make it on at some point during the day, but I can't guarantee that. Sorry. (On the plus side, I'm observing! On an actual real telescope! So that's exciting.) 2. [color=red]Eramit[/color]. 3. I would encourage everyone to post their vote for who to scan. We need discussion, and today's lynch isn't going to help that. So alternative means are necessary. Night, everyone. I'll be on once in the morning. Maybe. EDIT: Thank you whoever saved me. Likely Cloud.

'Bus' is shorthand for throwing one of your teammates under the bus, in order to gain trust for yourself. And thanks for the list!

This is an excellent point, which brings up the corollary: what are we going to do tomorrow? Lynch eramit, yes. But that will be rather useless. And we need discussion. Which we haven't had any of tonight. Let's not keep that trend going. So I'm definitely proposing that the thread votes for who to scan tomorrow. That's the only thing I can think of to keep the discussion going. I highly disagree with this. Once it's been contaminated, it's not worth nothing! That doc is nice for confirmed villagers plotting, yes, but there's also a second use for it: finding eliminators. As I've mentioned before, I think docs are much better places to find eliminators than thread. Part of that's for the same reason that PMs are: because they're more one-on-one. The eliminator feels much less pressure to say exactly the right thing in front of the eyes of everyone else, and they're much more likely to try to manipulate you in a private setting. The other part of the reason is that docs are realtime. So the eliminator has to get it right, immediately, when they're talking to someone. They don't have time to deliberate on a response. So that makes it much easier to catch them, in my opinion. So the Acolyte doc is far from useless when it's not full of confirmed good. Don't fill it with people you trust: fill it with people you want to hear more from, who you're not getting a good read on. Fill it with active people. Fill it with whoever you like. Whatever happens, it'll be a useful doc. As Eol said - no. They're not a second village faction. They have a doc, and they have a kill. And they cannot win with the village. So even if they were a second village faction, which they are not, that certainly doesn't mean we should ignore them. While I am (very much) in agreement with the rest of this post, this bit I don't agree with. It's a possibility, sure, but the potential gain doesn't outweigh the disadvantage of recalling one of the original senators, in my opinion. Other than that, not much to say other than: Talk! Talk! We need to talk! Just because Meta and Aman are both busy and can't really encourage discussion much right now is no excuse to fall silent. Silence kills the village. So talk! If you have nothing else to say, give a list of all the players and how suspicious/not you are of them. Or if that's too much, just the senators! There's only four of us. It's not that hard. I don't care what you say. Just talk.

Between the two options we seem to have, I think Burnt is the best choice, because she’s not contributing to discussion in thread whereas Nyali is. I don’t really think either of them are Spiked, but if it’s one of the two we have a chance of catching Nyali out because of what she says in thread. We have no such option with Burnt. Plus, I don’t like voting for active players who are adding to the discussion. Sandhya turned as she heard the door open. The girl from before stood there, somewhat awkwardly. “Sorry for what happened earlier,” she said. "I can make it up to you. Five boxings, and I'll tell you everything you want to know about him." Sandhya stared at the girl. “Seriously? You’re still going on about that? I was thinking you might be useful for a minute, but obviously you can’t even figure out that I’m not in fact trying to find a crush or a lover, or in fact anyone who’s currently alive. And I don’t need to know anything about him except his name.” She waved the piece of paper in her hand. “I do calligraphy, and I wanted to give him a tribute. Is that so hard to understand?” She sighed. “So. Tell me the name of the man who died, and then maybe we can do business.” I do have to find this Inquisitor somehow, she added to herself. Sorry for the late reply, Rae. I've been paying more attention to MR15 recently, and my time is more limited than I like. EDIT: My email notifications failed me... Ninja'd.

2. I mean, still not really necessary. It's usually decided through consensus. On the other hand, if you wanted to make it so that the team could only kill if the Lieutenant was on to place the order, that would work. Although either way it raises the question of what happens with the Lieutenant dies. 4. Just to make sure - they see specific people, not roles. So they see "Wilson targeted you." not "An elimiantor targeted you.", yes? 5. Okay. I can see that, although I'd refer you to QF11, in which everyone's votes were private and just sent to the GM, and QF14 and 15, which were certainly complicated enough to require a good deal of reasoning. The thing that makes it a QF rather than an MR is... two things. One is simplicity, and one is just time. MRs are 48 hour cycles or 24 hours days and nights. QFs are just 24 hour cycles. Up to you which you want. 7. Just say you want to sign up and for which format in the General Rules thread, and you'll be put on the list. Players... Between 12 and 36. Generally QFs and MRs have fewer, particularly QFs, so I wouldn't expect more than 20, or less than 14 or so. Hope that helps.

Senate doc. And I'm happy with Cloud. And scan results weren't sent to me this time.

Just wanted to note really quickly - this is assuming Senators were selected entirely randomly, after Derethi/Jeskeri picks. Which is possible, but I don't regard it as that likely. So these statistics aren't particularly useful. Ha. That's funny. No, it's not the second time, sadly. It's the second time this game. This is not exactly uncommon for him, unfortunately. Sorry. I've actually been on all evening, just forgetting about this game (probably because so few people are posting). >> Here now. Not sure whether I'm going to vote or not, but I'm happy with scanvote going on Eramit. As Elenion said, he seemed to be half-avoiding it, plus I already wanted to scan him yesterday before Cloud became a better target. EDIT: Ecthelion, what do you mean by that question, exactly? What does Mek do for a living? What do you do in order to GM? Something else? Because it _sounds_ like the first, but I think you mean the second.

Next QF will be starting when MR15 finishes. But LG24 should be going up in a week or so, I believe. So that's probably the next game.

Ooh, a LotR game! We can always use more LotR games. Thoughts: What result does the Steward receive? You don't specify role, alignment, or both. The Authority of Mordor power... doesn't really make much sense. If you go back and read any previous evil docs (which I highly recommend, if you haven't - my personal favorite may actually be the LG20 GB doc, although I do not recommend it unless you have a lot of free time (131k is a lot to slog through), and I'm not sure it's a perfect example of how evil teams usually function), you'll see that kills aren't decided by everyone voting formally on who they want to kill, and then whoever gets the most votes dies. It's whoever the group decides on as a whole. So... not sure the concept of that power makes sense, not in this format. Love the Liar mechanic. That's great. Just to make sure, the Outlaw power tells them everyone who targeted them. Not only kills. And regarding the group Mordor kill, if you'd like you can make it so that one person from the evil team sends in the kill as their night action. Often that's the case, but not always, so it's your choice. Other than those things, looks like a great game! In its current state, I'd almost put it at QF status more than MR, but it could probably work as a MR as well. Looks great, and I shall certainly be excited to play it!

Hm, okay. That's fair enough, I suppose. Still don't like the idea of such a risky gambit, but I could see it. Never mind that, then.