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Elbereth

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Everything posted by Elbereth

  1. Elbereth
    Confusion about that seems to be going around tonight. >> I'd make them into actual quotes, but I need to be going to bed. Maybe I'll bother in the morning.
  2. Elbereth
    ....Did you miss the post in which I literally quoted that exact section of the rules saying that they're added to a doc together?...
  3. Elbereth
    No problem. Wouldn't be so much, but I didn't get on for a while and the posts I wanted to respond to kind of built up over time. I don't have Stink's skill for brevity, unfortunately.
  4. Elbereth
    ....That was my point? I was quoting Doc from before turnover, and in response saying that it said in the rules that Mage would definitely know who was a teammate with him if he's evil.
  5. Elbereth
    I'm back. Sorry, I went off the Shard for a while since it was the last two days before break and I was slightly stressed (and also busy being thoroughly trolled >>). Back now, and some comments: Orlok: While I agree that's possible, instinctively I want to say it's more of a gradual percentage curve than a straight cap - the likelihood of finding each Omen gets progressively smaller so that there's always still a chance of finding one, just more and more unlikely. (That said, you know him better than I.) Doctor: ...From the rules: Just saying. Nyali: No! Of course not! Everyone joined for a different reason. For RP or games or friends or whatever else. There is no reason you have to RP, and nothing forcing you to if you don't want to. That said - I would argue that RP is an integral part of the game, just as much as the elimination aspect. Or at least it used to be. You can RP anywhere else, yes. You can also play mafia anywhere else, on MafiaUniverse or some other site. We're not unique because we're a forum-based elimination game. We're unique because of the combination. We're Sanderson Elimination. Look back at LG1, if you like, or even as recent as LG12. We began with RP. More RP than elimination, in fact. It's totally possible to do nothing but RP and also contribute meaningfully to the game. Plenty of people did it. Wilson made pretty clear her opinions even when speaking only through Chaos - she voted, after all. And Len responded (although she never responded in retraction, I don't think, which is rather sad as I was looking forward to that ). And that aspect of RPing game talk has gone away almost completely now, and that makes me sad. We're no longer telling a story together. We're playing a game, and the GMs are telling us a story around the game. (Wilson and I have just been discussing this at length, as we have a tendency to do, and we think that part of the shift in the meta towards competitiveness is actually because of this. Because it's no longer our characters having arguments, our characters dying. It's us. It's personal. And so we care about winning more.) I'm not saying that everyone should be forced to RP. That's not what SE's about. Everyone has a different playstyle, and that should never change. But I do think a little more RP wouldn't hurt. And I fully intend to try engaging with Khaos soonish, though I'm not sure when, nor how Kresla will handle her. Worth a try, though. Hael: And this post amuses me extremely. Want to know why? (Other than the grammatical error.) You have literally written such an article. Here. I highly recommend reading that, for anyone who can't think of anything to say. That's all for now. RP may come later, or maybe not. We shall see.
  6. Elbereth
    How disappointing, Doc. Doctor. I'll place another vote in the morning, probably. Night all.
  7. Elbereth
    And that's fine. I don't have too much of a problem with that, though I'm still not certain why not. I was more concerned of the logic in your reasoning.
  8. Elbereth
    Your slip up was the move of an inexperienced, panicked eliminator. Not something that you're likely to do again, and certainly not something that most players in this game would do. Tells that easy aren't common, nor are they something that you should just sit back and wait for. (Meta, for instance, actively encourages that kind of slip-up, by pushing for people to see how they react.) Yeah. That's basically the problem I have - your playstyle requires activity, and yet does nothing to encourage it. This isn't a horrible thing, to be clear - plenty of people are like that. It's just not terribly helpful to the group as a whole, in my opinion. Heh. Once upon a time, me pushing hard for anyone would've been way out of character. I'm kind of curious when that changed... Anyway. I'm not, really. I'm not any more suspicious of you as a result, or I would've dropped my vote on you instead. Which I considered doing, but I'm not seeing anything that makes me think eliminator. This is essentially a metagame-ish debate, not anything that's alignment indicative (except perhaps to say that there's a slightly lower likelihood for us two being eliminators together, maybe). And I'll be keeping an eye on you, as well. You're quite clever enough to warrant that.
  9. Elbereth
    I... one, that's arguable, and you most certainly don't know the tells of plenty of players and wouldn't be able to tell even if they did do something that they'd only do as an eliminator. And second, that feels like you're treating the game somewhat from a... spectator viewpoint, is the only way I can think to put it. You'll watch other people voting and talking but won't actually contribute to the discussion yourself until you see something suspicious. While you yourself give no opportunity for either suspicion or the chance to prove you're a villager. Obviously, that's an exaggeration, but that is essentially what happens with your reasoning if you take it to its logical end. Not likely. First of the Twilight is... rather uninterested, to say the least, and I am a bit busy quickly doing physics homework, for reasons I'm sure you know perfectly well. >>
  10. Elbereth
    At some point all the packs of the corpses are going to get too heavy for Yasava to carry.
  11. Elbereth
    Well, I wasn't going to post again, but looks like I'm going to anyway. One, yay for ninja'ing. Two, "something of substance"? It's D1 and only 4 people have posted. There is no something of substance. And probably won't be the whole day. That's what D1's about - stabbing blindly in the dark in order to give us something to look back at later for voting patterns, and to get the game going. And poke votes are one way to help us do that. In this game more than any, we have to be very proactive in voting, because there is no scan or any action to help us. Tomorrow, someone else will be dead, and that's all the information we'll get. Not saying you have to vote - far from it. That's entirely your choice. I'm just saying your reasoning for not voting is... not the best, in my opinion.
  12. Elbereth
    I am here, but unlikely to post anything of substance until tomorrow morning, as I have some homework I've been procrastinating on that I'm going to need until bedtime to get done. >> I can drop a poke vote, though. Doctor. Post, please. Preferably something with more substance than my own post.
  13. Elbereth
    Yep. Makes sense. Although - is this a group action or individual? That is, can every Reckoner send in an action to get an item and/or a kill? Or just the group as a whole? Right. If there's a mechanism for releasing people, then yeah, I'd definitely say no alignment reveal. As for that mechanism... multiple, somewhat contradictory questions. If it is a lynch, would it have to be instead of the lynch, or concurrent? Also if it's a lynch - you realize the Regulars would probably just jail and then unjail people? So as to try to avoid their win con? Again, if lynch - if they rescue someone from the jail but don't jail anyone (either because they can't because they're mutually exclusive actions or because they just fail to), will someone still die from the Epic? If it's a role - what would happen there if it's an every-cycle kind of role would be that they'd just rescue the people who got jailed, every cycle, again to help the Regulars. (Unless that role isn't a Regular, of course. Even so, Minions and Reckoners probably won't care about jailed being rescued anyway. Only argument there is that then they have other abilities they might want to be able to use.) So that's kind of problematic as well.
  14. Elbereth
    You going to take your vote off me then, Hael? And I've figured out how many people being voted on first have been evil, but not the voters. >> (I do, however, know how many of the people who've placed a second vote have been evil. Of course.) And I want to figure it out, but... also don't. So I think I'll wait until I'm trying to do the lynch tabs in the spreadsheet (thanks, Ecth...). Which... will be a while. That said, instinct says that the first vote is going to be slightly tipped towards villagers, rather then eliminators. So there's that, at least.
  15. Elbereth
    Ooh. Interesting. Or just give them a group kill from the beginning. Well. Hm. They don't have incentive to kill Regulars, no, but they're also not particularly punished for doing so, I don't think. So they would probably use it every cycle. Thus making the Regulars more likely to ally with the Epics... perhaps best not to just straight up give them a group kill, then. But it does need to be possible for them to have, at least. That's all that's needed. And as I said, not sure on alignment here either. Reveals can be fine, but can also be very problematic. Hm, corollary - are alignments revealed upon death?
  16. Elbereth
    ...I would hope so, but I doubt it, for some reason. I feel like it's more of a (very low) percentage than a hard and fast this-is-how-many-elims-there-can-possibly-be. I'm not certain on that point, though. And agreed on the everyone-exploring as much as possible. Most people seem to have found nothing (including myself, by the way), which is interesting. Means the game will be considerably less role-madness-esque than I was expecting, which I'm perfectly fine with. There are only two eliminators this cycle, but I don't think that means we should lynch inactives instead of trying to find them. I'm okay if the lynch eventually lands on an inactive (although, it's a bit early to tell in the game yet for most players whether they'll be active), but the lynch discussion needs to be focused around suspicions. About activity - Nathan, Chaos, and Doctor have all responded to PMs from me (or PMed me, in Doctor's case). So they're not completely inactive, at the very least. I've... figured out before how many times the person who casts the first vote is an eliminator. I think. I might go find those numbers. I feel like it was definitely under 50%, though. As for whether the action itself makes me more suspicious of him? ...Not really? I mean, I don't think it's particularly usual of him to poke-vote an active. But I'd think that as an elim he'd be less likely to vote, not more. So, currently meh on that question. I don't mind being called out, though. I hadn't seen anyone else say anything I felt the need to respond to until that. Excuse me while I try to go find the doc in which I ran those numbers... >>
  17. Elbereth
    3/4. Excellent. That wasn't quite clear, but I like that much better than the alternative. So the Regulars can either win with the Reckoners or can find and jail them all. Actually. That does bring up a point - you've balanced against the Reckoners revealing to the thread and avoiding being jailed. What's to stop the Minions from doing something similar? Revealing and coordinating with the townspeople to help? Obviously, this isn't as much of an issue as the other way around, but it is something to watch for. (Naturally, the Reckoners even having the potential of having a kill - which might be a public role or something - would solve everything quite neatly. Just something that I thought was worth pointing out.) 6. Alright, that's probably fine. I'll have to think about it for a while, because having living confirmed-alignment players is generally quite tricky. In this case since it's a faction game, though, I don't think it'd be problematic. (The only strategy I could come up with using that mechanic in the ten seconds or so I spent thinking about it is a Regular is lynched and confirmed to be Regular, then the Reckoners PM that person and reveal their identities, and then the Regular can decide who gets lynched as a result, so the Minions can't interfere with that and they don't have much guess as to who the Reckoners are. Of course, that strategy would never stand in an actual game. Dictatorships like that are horrible, and everyone knows it. But it's theoretically possible.) Um - how would you not reveal the Minions but reveal the alignment of everyone else?... Alright, great. Other than that it looks wonderful, I think. I... had another question. Unrelated to the above points. I'm not sure what it was, though, so I might as well post now. I'll remember eventually.
  18. Elbereth
    Ooh. I like this variation considerably more than the last. Assortment of questions, at random as I try to get it sorted in my head - Would PMs be completely open, then? Do the items do anything else other than helping against the Epic? The Regulars are a lot better than before. I still worry that they'd be somewhat bored because they're not trying to find eliminators? They're trying to find Minions, who aren't even relevant to them. Can the Regulars win if they imprison all the Reckoners? Or do they have to win with the Reckoners? Can the Jailed talk to each other? Would they have a doc in which to do so? (that thought is prompted by QF14, which had a similar if-you're-lynched-you're-jailed mechanic). Is alignment revealed upon being jailed? Can anyone other than the Reckoners use the items? The only other thought I have right now - though not a question - is that this is going to be very... GM-heavy? Like, the idea of "hints" to the Epic's backstory, and a random assortment of items and such. You'll have to be very careful about how that part is designed, and as it's secret it's not exactly something anyone but your mod (and your co-GM ) can help with. That said, it can totally be done well. As a whole, I really like this game idea. The win cons interact in a really fun way, and I can't wait to see it run.
  19. Elbereth
    No problem. You're a reasonable person. I'm sure you'll be great. ...Wow. I'm surprised no one had used that pun in this game before now... That's horrible. >> Really, truly horrific.
  20. Elbereth
    Kresla followed along on the tour eagerly, looking at everything that the tour guide had pointed out in fascination. The house was so big and beautiful. She’d never been inside somewhere so large and magnificent before. When Kathper left, she sat down to wait patiently. He’d be back eventually with the key, she knew. She didn’t need to be afraid. And until then, she would simply sit back and enjoy pretending she was a princess. Kresla’s going to be fun to play with, I can already tell. If someone wants to take her under their wing and/or take advantage of her, I'd be open to that. In terms of game related talk, there’s obviously not much yet, but I’ll respond to a couple points. Sports? I would like to note that we cannot find the Heart until we have killed an eliminator. So while yes, exploring is important because we need to have eliminators in order to kill them, it's not for finding the House. It's just for gathering roles and such, and getting our first eliminator. Well, the rules do say that the Traitors will have "access to the traitor doc" (LG28 Original Post, paragraph 12) (see, I cite sources! ), so I'd say there is one. And their win con is stated as well. So I don't think we need to be that worried (or happy, I suppose) about elims having different win cons, although it'd be entirely possible for them to have secondary win conditions. The leaf up? You seem to be arguing at once that lynching inactives is bad because it'll lead to a reduction of possible future explanations (which every lynch will do, so you're arguing for no lynch, essentially) and that we need to lynch traitors if possible. I agree on the second, but not so much on the first. Lynching inactives is fine if there's one or two Omens triggered, but more than that (which I suspect there will be, though I'm not certain) and I definitely agree that it should be treated as essentially a normal game (except that all the abilities are hidden and also we can't clear anyone...) where we go after elims as per usual. I shouldn't do this, but... Is the Crown that much more stable than America, really? Sure, it's lasted longer, but it hasn't continually been in existence much longer than America. And we've never beheaded our nation's leaders. Kas is co-GMing this game. Wyrm wanted someone to die. So Kas signed up, and then Wyrm killed him. (Again.)
  21. Elbereth
    You don't think I know exactly who killed me? Of course I do. I would like to point out that by the time you killed me my role had been nerfed enough that I was no longer dangerous as a role whatsoever. The only danger was through Len or my own instincts. So I don't really think that reasoning's particularly valid. Your second reason, on the other hand, I'm happy to accept. (Same reason I didn't get irritated at Lopen for killing me C1 in QF17. It's the price I had to pay.) And yeah, Len, I see what you're saying. I'm sorry, I didn't word things quite correctly - it's more that... you loved being an elim, but even more loved the idea of being a double agent for the village, so you had no qualms about betraying your "team" because they weren't your team, correct? And that makes sense to me. I'm just saying it's not what most people would've done, because most viewed it (or, at least, I did- I don't speak for everyone) as an option or a way to turn village if things got desperate. Not automatically as a spy among the elims. Unfortunately, acting in the way you did (with the combination of the elims being so open about strategy/roles/etc) broke the game. But... hm. The problem I have isn't so much that you broke the game as the "projected that working for the village gave me a higher chance of winning" part. It is, of course, important to try to win. But you don't seem to have stopped and considered how the eliminators would've felt in that circumstance. It's exactly no fun to have your team ratted out and you die with no chance of winning whatsoever. (Similar things have happened before, to one extent or another. MR2 in particular comes to mind, when there were exactly 0 village deaths.) And even if you choose to work against them, that doesn't mean all of their enjoyment should be taken out of the game as a result. If you'd taken your info to someone actually willing to use it, the game would've essentially ended immediately (possibly with having to hunt Lopen down for a while). And that's not fun for anyone, let alone the GMs who worked so hard on this game. So yes, winning is important, but taking into account fun at least to an extent is important, too. *Note that I don't mean to offend you or really load all of the blame for this on you, Len. That comment just exemplified an attitude that's been brought up a couple times recently, and I don't think it's a great one to have. :/ We're Gentlemen Killers, remember? We kill courteously. Not savagely, not without a care for the victim. Respectfully. We murder and we jest about it afterwards. And I don't want to ever see that change.
  22. Elbereth
    Well, I know for a fact that you had no reasoning in LG20, because I have access to that GM PM. I'm fairly sure you didn't have much reasoning in LG24, but I could be wrong. Did you?
  23. Elbereth
    Not sure? Well... in LG20, it wasn't so much because of you but because I was really invested in the game. I was trying my hardest to win against very difficult odds. And then I didn't even lose because the game ended and I didn't have all my items. I lost because you decided randomly to kill me. And then in LG24, everyone else that cycle (except Araris) died from Aman. I came home to Wilson saying "five people are dead, including you and me, and Aman's evil". But I wasn't killed by Aman. You again randomly decided to kill me (or at least, that was random as far as I know; I never heard about any reasoning, in any case). And that irritated me because if I'd been alive, Aman would've had a lot less freedom to say what he did and get away with everything. So, it's more that you've tended to kill me in games I care about than anything particularly about you. Except perhaps that you didn't have much reasoning for killing me either time.
  24. Elbereth
    You're fine, Mage. I just misinterpreted your words, then. I'm very happy to hear that. And no, I didn't get particularly angry in the dead doc. I wouldn't have if I died C1, either, probably - I didn't in QF19, after all. I very rarely will. Being visibly wrathful only amuses my murderer and lets them know I want revenge. It's much more fun as a surprise. Besides, again, I usually choose to take it as a mark of respect, that I was dangerous enough that I needed to be killed. The only actual times I've been irritated at my death are both times Stink killed me (LG20 and LG24), and then LG21 when I was killed by accident. ...This is MR17? And no, you didn't upset me. It concerned me because of what I thought you were saying, but you've definitely allayed those fears just fine. Right. I should've remembered how excited you were to be an eliminator. >> I didn't think that judgement through properly. Apologies.
  25. Elbereth
    That's not the question. The question is, did Kas just sign up for a game? And the answer is yes. Yes, he did. *squeeee*
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