Metacognition
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Perhaps, since every other turn has gone over anyways, we should just start the day once everyone has received their PMs? This way, everyone starts the day on the same foot. I know you guys are busy right now (and thank you Aonar for being on top of everything as you have been. This is more your game now than Newan's, since you're who we typically hear from!), but it shouldn't take more than a day to get PMs out, right? After all, all the results are in and nothing is changing, so it's just a matter of making rolls and such at this point. I'd rather we just start the 48 hours from when you guys post that the last PMs are sent out, rather than try to work around all these extensions!
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While I can't speak for everyone, I can definitely say that not only was it worth the wait, but that I love that attention to detail! I've caught myself doing basically the same thing; where I'd stop in the middle of writing, just to find out if what I was writing was even possible, so well played!
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The days and the nights just seemed to drag on and on for Malrick; it seemed to him to be unaturally long. Perhaps it was in part that Cylkan wasn't still up on his feet and now Malrick was pulling double duty; both at the Alehouse and as a Lighter of Lamps. Most of the time, he would spend his entire day at the Alehouse and the second he closed up shop, he'd be out making sure the lamps were lit for the next day. If he was quick about it, he could maybe catch a few hours of sleep before he opened the Alehouse the next day. But the constant strain was starting to wear on him and every night he went out, more lamps had fallen into disuse than before; needing him to take even more time to make the rounds. On top of this, it was becoming more and more apparent that the streets weren't safe. D'wag being murdered was bad enough, but it seemed that no one was above the knife when Mayor Gund was also killed. The fact that he turned out to be a Trellist Conspirator only helped so much. If they could get to the Mayor, what chance did Malrick have while walking the streets alone? The strain and stress were adding up; causing him to jump at the slightest sound during his rounds. "Founders, help me," he'd mutter to himself while trying to pierce the darkness between him and the next unlit lamp. "I can't do this forever! Please, help us. You brought us here to get us away from the chaos of the Empire's leash. And now we face it anyways. Can't you at least give us a sign that we're doing what we should?" Of course, no answer ever came except the hollow moan of the wind passing through the cavernous rock. Then he'd steel himself by reminding himself that he was descended from one of those very Founders and proceed to the next lamp. Just for one more day, he'd tell himself. One more day and Cylkan will be alright again. One more day and then we'll finally find all the Spiked and be done with it. Just one more day. He'd been chanting that every day since Honerius' death.... Considering that we have had a lot more downtime than we expected, I suggest we do something with it! Specifically, get in some RP and help flesh out not only Twinborn Village, but our characters as well. No reason to just sit here and wait when we've been given such an opportunity. We can turn the GM's difficulties into a boon and make this one of the best RP games in quite some time! And why not? It's not like we're using this extra time to debate, so let's make something more out of it! EDIT: I just get done writing all this up and get ninja'd by the write up going live. ...Well played, Aonar!
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A lot of people were saying they were waiting till they received their PMs of the night or that their actions might change due to that. Well, we know that all PMs have been sent out now, to where is everyone?
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If you look back, I never set Sart on the path to you, Jaelre. My last vote was for Tulir and before that, Ella. I never really mentioned you unless you considered yourself amongst those hiding as inactive. If that's the case, well, there were plenty of inactives to choose from. The fact that Sart picked you out, out of everyone who's been inactive, is on him; not me. In fact, I find it curious that you would defend Sart so much, especially if it was based on a random chance read. It would be easy for two Spiked to make sure that they weren't in the same room as each other (as they'd know where they where) and thus provide an excuse for why an attack never happened ("Oops! I must have been in the wrong room!"). It would be a nice way to soft confirm someone. You think I'm unwilling to practice what I preach, then let's debate! You only started talking when you finally came under fire and you decided to defend one of those that was attacking you (Which, btw Sart, where are you and do you still feel the same way?). To add to that, Sart called you out and you did nothing. You didn't respond to him. It wasn't until I did that you finally got out of your shell and posted (ENTIRELY OOC: I understand that the lack of GM order has screwed up this game quite a bit, so I'm not taking that into account when determining player actions. I'm taking into account what people did within each specific turn). So explain to us: Why now? You're not up any more for the lynch than you were that last day turn; the first time you were up for a lynch. So a "risked lynch" was as valid last day turn as it is now; more so when you account that Sart was willing to kill you for your inactivity during the night. That seems a lot more risky to me than only me throwing a vote towards you, but you were absent throughout that cycle. Seems to me that you might have known that Sart's claim wouldn't hit*. That, to me, is worth looking in to! *I'm not claiming that Sart is Spiked and that they were working together (though they might be). I'm only claiming that Jaelre knew that he wasn't in B2 due to inactivity and thus knew that if that was what Sart was basing his read on, then he wouldn't die.
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I would like to request our GMs show up and get everyone their actions! Seriously though, it's okay if things are hectic for you two right now. We waited on Bartbug throughout his game as well, so it's fine if Real Life is taking up more of your time. What would be nice though is to know that that's what is going on (if that's the case) and to take responsibility of such issues by readjusting the turns accordingly. We shouldn't have to call an extension due to people not yet receiving their PMs, as that should be a priority before the next turn even starts (or should be done directly afterwards)! If both of you just don't have the time right now, that's okay. It happens. Just let us know what the deal is so that we know where we all stand. In my opinion, this lack of communication is hurting things more than anything else. We don't know if people aren't speaking up because they're inactive, or haven't received their orders, or lurking, or whatnot. We rely on you, the GMs, to keep things flowing in an orderly fashion or to let us know when there's an issue. So, at least, give us a heads up on where we're at and what we can expect going forward, please!
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Whomever is charging Spikes, please be careful with them! I know everyone would like to have additional powers, but you could also wind up as a Spiked! Unless that's your intent, which then I wouldn't count you as a Villager anyways. I'd like to hear from Jaelre. Sart calling him out the other day seems a bit too random to me. There's something there that doesn't add up for Sart to be so focused on him (to the point of wanting to kill him during the night even!), so I'd like to hear what he has to say in his defense. EDIT: And I agree with Twelve, we need more discussion here. Could the GMs please let us know when all PMs have been sent out? That way, we know when everyone knows what happened to them the night before?
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Fair enough, Ella. I did say that there was a possibility of it being something innocent after all. That doesn't mean Tulir isn't a Spiked though and since we know he's back, I'd like to know why he's being so silent. We didn't not lynch you, Tulir, just so you could hide in the shadows!
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Well, I call for it now (though we didn't really know this was an option before now). Considering I didn't get my PM until after half of the day was already gone (seriously though, that's a crazy difference in time, GMs), I suspect that most people have had the same. Thus, I'd like to give everyone, including those that are only kind of paying attention, a chance to weigh in. That way, if people agree with my plan for inactives, everyone has had plenty of time to come forward with objections, comments, or just to let us know they're alive before the next night!
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I don't know how to make it clearer. Look, if you can balance a game that requires a quarter of a year or more to play and has a hundred different working parts and can keep people excited for that long, I'd be the first to applaud you on making an astounding game! And, we, the Mods, would work like crazy to make it work because something like that would be literally epic! Key word there being "balanced." We shouldn't even potentially, maybe, scare off people who might want to try their hand at GMing, but they don't because they think they need to go bigger or go home. That's the atmosphere of one-up-man-ship that seems to be in focus right now, IMO. We should be encouraging people to be creative within the systems we've already built and to expand on the worlds Sanderson has created for us. There is still so much to explore! Like Hero said: This isn't a contest. This isn't about who can make the biggest and most complex and longest game ever. We have MRs and QFs that still get talked about to this day and those games are designed to be less complex! This is about making games that everyone can enjoy. That's why we share our ideas. So that other people can catch issues of imbalance and together create a better game. I suggest we stop worrying about labels and complexity and what not and get back to what this thread is for: To help GMs balance and create games that are balanced and entertaining for all those involved.
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Considering that it doesn't look like we have any solid suspicions just yet, I think it's more important than ever to get everyone to start adding to the discussion. As such, I'd like to put forth a similar idea as I did in LG10, where those villagers that have killing roles are allowed a bit of carte blanche when it comes to killing inactives. This way, we'll at least learn who is just not talking and who is truly inactive. I think more people would be willing to speak up if they knew that there was a chance that if they don't, they could be targeted during the night. My reasons are the same as they were last game: it takes away a place for the Spiked to hide and it makes it so that the Spiked can't hide behind not saying anything. From there, we can start figuring out if those that are just barely active are trying to hide something nefarious (maybe they're far more active in PMs and just aren't talking in thread) or if they're just incredibly busy, like what Sart claims. To be fair, I'm not saying that if someone hasn't spoken up by the end of the day that they should be fair game. But, if someone hasn't been a part of the discussion for the last few cycles (especially after we found Winter), then they're not being all that helpful. I'd say that there should be a two cycle period in which they haven't spoken up for them to be considered fair game. Take Ella for example. She was active in the beginning, but has anyone heard from her in awhile? I suggested a similar idea to her in PM as well and while she didn't say yay or nay about it either way, she also, at the time, pointed out that Tulir was still away from the game and could've been targeted by my plan. Then, the next day, Tulir shows up and posts in thread. So, not only has she gone fairly inactive from what I can tell, it also looks like she was possibly trying to save Tulir from death. That's the best suspicion I have so far and it could just be her trying to keep Tulir alive so that they could play when they got back, so perfectly innocent, but I'd like to hear an explanation either way and also see what you guys thought of my idea.
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The biggest problem with this system is how long it takes to get PMs out to everyone, IMO. I think a lot of us spend time waiting during the day, just to find out what happened to us during the night and it cuts into our discussion time. Considering how many things need to be taken into account, I don't blame our GMs at all for it, but it still makes for a stuttered start. Araris, where were you last night? I'm curious to find out whether the Spiked were targeting C3, since they seemed to do the same the last time an Uncanny Item was up for grabs.
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Considering votes are still the most reliable way to find the Evil Faction, I'd say it still counts. You've added an entire additional level to the voting and that's not counting all the other shenanigans that could go on! Still counts in my book! The one thing I'd like to say, though, is that's not a contest. Just being complex does not make for a good game. No offense Joe, I'm just using it as an example, but your last game (LG10) was crazy complex. So much so that no one caught the imbalances due to the complexity. I still love what you came up with and would still love to see a tweaked version of it. It was still an incredibly fun game and will, rightfully so, be a solid foundation for people to build of off! Point is, complexity does not necessarily make a great game. Balance does. Quick Fixes, which are limited by how much they can do, wouldn't be as popular as they are if that wasn't the case. So, to future and present GMs, you don't have to reinvent the wheel. We already have a lot of great roles and structures in place. It's all in how you use them that can make a game great. Feel free to switch things up! Want to run a game where 90% of the players are Lurchers and Coinshots? Go for it! Want to create a Roshar game without Shardbearers? Awesome! Just keep in mind the balance to make it a fair game for everyone and I can almost guarantee you that your players will have fun!
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That's not how it works, Phatt. The GMs create their own games (thus the entire point of this thread), so you couldn't just GM someone else's game without their permission. Feel free to PM either Wilson, Gamma or myself and we'll help walk you through the process and we'll be able to answer any additional questions you have. There's a lot that goes into GMing one of these games, which is why we're all so thankful to those that have decided to GM a game, so it's understandable if you have questions.
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Malrick could still feel the heat on his skin. He'd gone in after the supposed traitor, Honerius, but had, by sheer luck, escaped the trap. The blaze, without anywhere else to go, consumed the air around it and caused an inverted shockwave as it drew air from the surrounding area. It wasn't something that the Twinborn Village was used to. It had been a long time since they'd ever had a fire of this magnitude and it showed in how well they were prepared for it. After all, a fire within an enclosed space like this? The only other incident had been in the Mushroom Farms, that had happened in generations past, which had been sparked by the Mushroom Revolt! He remembered being blown back, towards the blaze as if it was an all consuming furnace.His skin blistering and the smell of charred hair. But what he remembered more was the excavation. Watching, as he and the other villagers crawled across the wreckage, looking for survivors. All of them, covered in ash and tossing pillars that had yet to be put out. And they found one; Cylkan was badly burned, but survived. Malrick couldn't help but stay with his faithful customer. He might have lured him into the Alehouse by putting out the light in front of the Alehouse every afternoon, but they'd built up a relationship because of it over the years. Malrick knew all the little quirks that Cylkan had. He knew how important his job was to him. Thus, as Cylkan muttered, as he recovered, about keeping on the lights, Malrick was there. And after years of deceiving Cylkan about just one light, Malrick shed a tear. "We've grown so used to the lights that we've taken them for granted," he mumbled between sobs. "But without you, we'd be cast into darkness.' 'Now is a time of change and darkness truly threatens us all; and not just physically! More, now than ever, we need your light." Malrick reached down and picked up Cylkan's tools. "I'll keep the lamps lit until you can return, my friend. And all drinks are on the house from here on in." And he left. He had lamps that needed light.
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*Secretly sneaks in and hides Hero's post so that I have the only copy* Step right up! Get your Official GM Spreadsheet here! Only $5.99 for a limited time! Get the best kept secret of GMs everywhere! Oh, man! I'm going to be rich!
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Burn away. Mail, feel free to pull your vote, if you so desire; I will leave mine on and thus protect everyone else. Threats don't tend to work very well on me. I'll gladly take one for the team if necessary. You see, that last bit has me convinced that Lev and Spencer are correct. If you were truly a villager, you wouldn't try to make this situation a two-for-one deal for the Spiked just to spite the villagers. To me, that reads as a last, desperate attempt at staying alive. I don't blame you for trying such a tactic, but if you're a villager, I'll call your bluff and if you're a Spiked, I'll gladly save a few others.
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In the interest of being helpful, Vote Tally! Honey Badger (4): Lev, Kandra Skrull, Spencer, Neodymium Nicroburst (1): Feligon I find it odd that the Spiked are supposedly trying to lead people to certain rooms to seal their doom. That just doesn't seem very effective, as today shows, because it seems like it would be incredibly easy to be found out. But, I also don't see how or why Lev and Spencer in particular (and Ostrich as well to a degree) would concoct such an elaborate plot just to get one person killed. After all, if Honey Badger does turn out to be innocent, they're going to be the first people that we look at when we're looking for suspicious people during the next day turn! So I'll give my support to lynching Honey Badger today, but if he turns up innocent, you guys are going to have a lot of explaining to do! Also, in regards to Luckat's message; Can a Bronze Allomancer detect the difference between Hemalurgic Spiked Bronze and Regular Bronze? Or is it Hemalurgic Kandra Bronze and Regular Bronze? Cause that's a pretty useful power if it can also tell when a Spiked uses a power in the same room.
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Mid-Range Game 5: Competing Realities
Metacognition replied to Alvron's topic in Sanderson Elimination
Well, it looks like since this game hasn't been closed before I finally got everything back up and running, it falls to me to close it out! Considering I didn't get a chance to play in this one, I can't really comment too much, but everything I did see was phenomenal! If this game ever runs again (or if something similar gets made), I'm going to have to make sure that I get a chance to join! A very special thanks to Alv for GMing this game. As he said in the Dead Doc, over 200 separate PM messages! You guys were brutal to him! And also congrats to Gamma for pulling of the win for both the Undead and the Rithmatists! Well played! As always, if anyone would like to try your hand at running a game, please get a hold of Gamma, Wilson or myself. Not only will we get you added to the list, but I'm sure we'd be more than willing to help out in any way we can as well! You can also ask questions and get some hints and feedback from everyone over here in our Art of Game Creation thread as well. With all the games that we've run so far, we have plenty of experienced GMs that can help you refine any game you're thinking about! Thanks to everyone that played! If you haven't had enough and you missed sign ups for the current LG, you've still got a little bit to be able to sign up for the next QF! We hope to see you all there! -
Malrick wiped his brow, as he put the final touches on his latest addition to the traps laid about the Alehouse (called such because, evidently, his ancestors hadn't been very creative and the fact that it was the only one within the underground building). It had taken him days of hard work and a lot of tinkering, but now it was finished and he could add it to the journal that his family passed down each generation with all the various traps laid out and described in it. As he sat down at the bar, quill in hand, he flipped through the journal as he went. There was Mesist's, his families originator and Founder, trap called, "The Turtle," which dropped huge chunks of the ceiling in front of the doors and windows; effectively keeping everyone outside out... or whomever was trapped inside in. A few pages later, he came across "The Moat." It was a spike-ladened trap door that followed the entire length of the bar. The Archers was a series of crossbows latched and ready to all fire together hidden behind the tinted glass behind the bar. The Guillotine would run a sharpened metal blade from wall to wall at about neck height. The Fisherman's Surprise, the Tumbler, the Jack in the Box. Page after page of devious traps, all hidden in the walls, ceiling, and floor of his home. It was his family's tradition. And now he could add his own entry to the list. He smiled as he finally turned to a blank page, dipped the quill and wrote the title for his addition: The Spiked Club. It wasn't a trap that just anyone could use, but he could and that's what mattered. "Let's see those Spiked come for me now," he thought. _____________________________________________________________________________________________________________ I'm finally back up and running! I'm glad to see that we're finally past all the, "no! lynching's bad!" phase. If you notice, the first few days, when everyone said that they didn't want to lynch, we also didn't have much discussion. That's because the two go hand in hand. You don't get good discussion without the lynch, so let's not go back to that, please! Hopefully by now, most people have spread out a bit. Please, let's not all bunch together in the same rooms! There's a very good chance that that's exactly what got Phatt killed. They didn't need to know who would go after the item in B1, they just knew that people would flock to that room! Speaking of rooms, we should be able to start narrowing things down if we know who had the opportunity to be in the rooms that kills took place in. For example, Phatt was killed in B1. As such, anyone in A3 or C3 wouldn't have enough action phases to get there. There's also looking at where people were and where they ended up. If someone was in C/A 1 and they ended their night in B2, they wouldn't have been able to move that far and make a kill. Sure, this doesn't eliminate those people from not being Spiked, but it will help us narrow the possibilities of who all is Spiked! As such, we really need to start coordinating these things. If someone appears somewhere they said that they weren't going to be, then we can use that. I'm not saying that we should announce in thread where we're each going, but with Phatt dead (assuming we don't have another Bronze Allomancer), we have to rely more on our tineyes being able to follow everyone's movements. These are just my thoughts since I got back. I need to go back through everything again so I can hopefully see the bigger picture, but I feel like we've been too quiet when it comes to hunting the Spiked. This could also be due to me not knowing what's going on behind the scenes, so bare with me while I get caught up!
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2nd Post in the General Rules thread.
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First of all, due to the title... Wake Up! If our Cadmium burners aren't Spiked, I hope they got it out of their system now. If you're a village Cadmium burner, please don't use your ability tonight. You effectively hurt the Village's chances by taking away actions from everyone that moved (sure, some of them could've been Spiked actions, but there are far less of them than there are of Villagers, so you likely stopped more Villager actions than Spiked). We should all be spreading out as much as possible to make it easier to determine where a Spiked attack happened. If we all spread out to different rooms, that would make it so that there are roughly 3 people per room 9 rooms by roughly 30 people). Now, obviously, this isn't going to happen, as everyone is going to move around, but by spreading out, we narrow down the focus to that room and the connected rooms. The only way this doesn't work is if the Spiked kill, move, move and we still can narrow it down to 2/3 of the map, which is better than all of it! Spreading out also makes it easier for us to pick up items, as there will be more chances overall to get an item. So let's not all rush back into the center, please, just because the room has the possibility of an awesome item! We'd just be setting ourselves up to get no information out of this night. My hard drive should be in tomorrow, so I should be back up sometime this weekend (got to install the OS, update everything, install key programs, etc.)! Malrick and his *Alehouse should be back by the next day turn at least *I have an RP in mind for this, but I think the name "Alehouse" is a bit befitting, so for those of you that wanted a name, feel free to just call it "The Alehouse."
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Meta is dealing with his computer's hard drive crashing on him right before the final series of tests before finals. Sorry guys, I've been meaning to make it in here for a while now, but every time I get a chance to use a computer or so has been dedicated to other things. I've just been trying to keep up with everything that's been going on. I have a new hard drive coming in hopefully by the end of the week, so I should be back up and running soon-ish. Just let me caught up on RL, and I'll be back! So, to show that I'm still paying attention (I'll get back to RP when I have my computer back up), let me say this; I don't think we should just take not lynching off the table like that. We have quite a bit of information from last night, even if it doesn't look like it. First, we have the Spiked's missed hit. The person who protected said person should be getting in contact with their target! The chances of someone being protected in such a fashion is too slim for this to be a gambit by the Spiked. So they can be fairly certain their target last night was villager. IF this hasn't happened, then it's because this really was just too convenient and the two were already working together (aka both being Spiked and trying to set up one of their own as "innocent."). This either gives us knowledge about the Spiked's abilities or already allows us to have at least two people that can trust each other pretty decently. There's a third option, where the Spiked "saved" someone else to get them on their side, but I think the trade off there is a bit weak. We also have the bubbles. Sure, that could just be people playing around with their powers, but it could also tell us more about what the Spiked have available to them. Remember what I said before the game even began about the Spiked being able to coordinate their power uses more effectively than the rest of us early on? I'm not saying the use of two (or being used twice *GM ruling or bubbles being used multiple times in a night, please?) bubbles was deliberate, but we shouldn't discount the possibility either. Those right there is quite a bit to go off of. A lot more than we typically have at least! As such, I wouldn't just take lynching off the table. We just need to be careful about it, since there's a decent chance that a lot of us don't have our votes. In fact, those of you who don't have your vote should be throwing votes around right now (IIRC, you can still vote, it just won't be counted)! It might scare one of the Spiked out of hiding (less effective now, since I had to spell it out here). They don't know that your vote won't count, so they have to worry about votes that may or may not be actual votes. If not this turn, please remember this for future turns! ...And now I've spent far longer on this than I should have. I need to get back to Physics for the test tomorrow. I'll try to be back as soon as possible guys! Promise!
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Malrick shook himself out of his revelry. The traps could wait till after closing time. "Sorry," he said with a somber grin. "I just don't like it- these rumors. The Founders, may Preservation give them rest, were incredibly careful and smart about where they set up our Home. So," -and he punctuated his thought by rapping on the bar- "if these rumors are true, how'd these 'Spiked' find us in the first place, eh? We've had generations of just quite living and peaceful years. We're smack dab in the middle of nowhere and we live in caves. It's not like someone is just going to stumble upon us. If there was a hunt in the Final Empire to find us, we'd have heard about it by now. At the very least, those of us that do venture above ground, like Honerius, would've caught sent of it. "So that's the twist," he said as he leaned in, as if he was imparting a secret; which, in a way, he was. "Yes, I suspect that some of these newcomers, with their fancy words and stranger actions, very well might be spies for the Lord Ruler. If he had found us, he'd need to get his agents in place somehow. But, that's not the whole of it. They likely wouldn't have found us without help. Someone in Twinborn has ratted us out and that's likely going to keep me up at night." He then turned to Cylkan, his entire demeanor changing in a second, and he was all smiles and joviality again. "It's 'bout time you got back over here to fix that light, Cyl! If there's one thing I can set my watch to, it's that mist-cursed light going out and you wandering in here after fixing it!" He said with a lighthearted smile. He didn't have the heart to tell Cylkan that the reason the light went out so much was because he kept extinguishing it. "The usual?"
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Malrick was distracted tonight. With the arrival of so many newcomers, it seemed they brought ill tidings with them. There was discussion that the Final Empire they had fled might have found them after all; something or someones calling themselves the "Spiked." There seemed to be an expectant anticipation hanging in the air, like a guillotine that just needed the finest touch to set it off. It was so heavy that it was even starting to get under Malrick's skin! He started making mental notes of all of the traps he and his ancestors had built into the bar over the years. His ancestors hadn't been fools; they knew a day like this could come and they had plotted against it. At the very least, the alehouse should survive. It was into this distracted state that Kwon wandered into. Typically, Malrick would've been more than willing to sit and chat, but his mind was focused elsewhere. He was performing his bartending duties on autopilot, which was very much not like him. He was likely adding to the atmosphere in the Village, but he didn't care. This kind of rumor, if true, could compromise the entire village and all of their livelihoods! Well, Malrick wasn't going to take it lying down! He would double check the traps tonight, make sure everything was in good working order. Plus, he had another one that he'd always planned on setting up; his own addition to the various contraptions carefully hidden around his bar. Tonight seemed like a good night to do so as any...
