Khyrindor

Oh my gosh, Jasnah is wearing a glove. And wielding a sword with her left hand. Better cover up before the ardents find out how naughty you've been, Jasnah! In all seriousness, as much as I enjoy the stormlight covers, they aren't made to be perfectly accurate. I doubt we can glean information from Jasnah's 'floating'. Most likely, it's just exaggerated to make it look dramatic and awesome. Which it does. But yeah, Jasnah fighting a Thunderclast?! If anything could make me more excited for Oathbringer, that would be it.

My favourite funny comment in SA is (naturally) a Hoid one: "A piece of wet slime and a disgusting crab thing with seventeen legs slunk across the rocks together on an insufferably rainy day." Honourable mentions go to: "You remind me of someone very dear to me." "Who?" "My horse." Anything that isn't in the Stormlight books isn't relevant to this thread. Pretty big Mistborn spoilers out there...

Yes, I was thinking of power as wellt, the power to command people at least. I'm not convinced on organizsing it into the four groups of metals, but I'll see if that thought process continues as I work out groups of other Shards. I mostly think that way because Shards are (in my mind) based on godly attributes, and grouping them into those groups seems more like trying to fit terms into boxes, instead of fitting the boxes to the Shardic terms. Really, there could be a lot of different interpretation, and even my examples are a matter of semantics, and your guess is as good as mine. What I'm trying to do is think of the Intents of the Shards we know/think are likely, extrapolate from that, and find four overarching godly attributes that each Shard pertains to. Power/Authority is a good one that I'm reasonably sure on. I'll have to think of some others.

I like this. I always figured it amounted to Dominion being a good target, I could see that. And then Devotion being his "opposite" Shard, and therefore his equal. I'm however, getting less and less sure that Shards come in pairs so that idea is off the table.

@ZenBossanova I'm going to use your ideas as a template to fit my own ideas for Shards in here, if you don't mind. Let me know what you think of any changes. Physical I like how you grouped these, not convinced on all the names. As opposed to making the names of the quadrants match the groups of metals, I'd posit this one as "Authority" So, with authority, if we apply this logic (below) to at least this set of four Shards, it works out nicely. If "External" correlates to "to others," and "Internal" correlates to "to yourself" And "Pushing" means it's "your choice," and Pulling means it's "other's choice." Then we can work out a pattern: Internal Push: Autonomy: Your "authority" to yourself, because of your choice. You're deciding to be autonomous, answering only to yourself. Internal Pull: Charisma: Your "authority" to yourself, because of other's choices. Other people choose to be loyal to you because of a trait you posses. (I'm less sure of the Intent, but I like how it fits the pattern) External Push: Devotion: Your "authority" to others, because of your choice. You chose to be loyal to a person or a cause. External Pull: Dominion: Your "authority" to others, because of other's choice. Others have used power to command you, or have demanded authority over you. I've spent a couple hours today thinking through this pattern and I feel pretty good about it. I like that it fits in the Intents of three of the known Shards. The only thing I'm not sure on is Charisma. I'm not sure I like the idea yet, as it seems quite similar to Devotion, and may be too specific to be a Shardic attribute. Any ideas for a better match (preferably one that doesn't involve me spending more hours playing with pushes and pulls to make it fit) would be appreciated. As it's late, I'll leave the other Shards for tomorrow.

The Tranquiline Halls are a real thing, but Odium conquered them long ago, leading to an exodus to Roshar. The Tranquiline Halls are now known as Braize. [Minor AU essay spoiler] The Cognitive Shadows Khriss mentions on Braize are EVERYONE that dies on Roshar, sent to Damnation like the Heralds. Thus, the war for the Tranquiline Halls is a real thing. Roshar will be destroyed in book five. Mass exodus to Braize as a Hail Mary, bringing the fight to Odium. Dalinar and Kaladin are reunited with their brothers there. They free the Tranquiline Halls of Odium, but at the price of Roshar.

So, I have a really good joke, but I've already used it on this site a few times. If you've already seen it, feel free to ignore it and not upvote it (not that I'd mind of course). Here's the joke: "Hey, have you seen Vasher?" "Who Zahel are you talking about?"

How'd you get your hands on Dragonsteel? Lucky lucky... Welcome to the Shard! We're glad to have you.

I think Greed would be involved in Odium, which includes jealousy.

Why thank you. The "smart enough" bit makes me lean more toward something like Enlightenment than Purity. Glad to know I wasn't imagining things.

I haven't been able to find the WoB in a while, I'm not sure if it's in the database. I won't have time to search for it. Does anyone else have memory of this quote/have it handy somewhere?

I remember a follow up to that question, and Brandon said that survival isn't that Shard's intent (capital I), but that it's what it's trying to do. I think something like Purity wanting to hide would be likely, or maybe the Enlightenment or Wisdom Shard realizing that hiding is the best course of action are two possibilities I see.

I could see it being a Shard, but we might already have that aspect represented in Shards like Devotion, Honor, or [AU spoiler] We actually have a thread here for discussing possible Shards. It might interest you. There are some minor AU spoilers in there for the Essays.

@Rasarr We were thinking of Amalgamation or Synthesis as a possible opposite of Purity. Purity would involve being one and only, whereas Synthesis would be about bringing things together. I agree that their tenuous, I'm less sure about these than I am about any others.

I see what you're saying, and I suppose it's plausible. I just don't think (given what we've seen of Autonomy not changing Intents, despite the Vessel seeming to act contrary), that that is what's happening. It could be that it happens a little bit when one Ascends, but then after a little bit it stops.

@Mati, @Extesian. I like the thought of Vessels being flexible with their Shard's Intent, and I think it has merit, but I think it's more accurately the Shard being fixed, but the Vessel's interpretation that changes. For evidence, I'd look at all the Shards and see if they're all acting according to what we'd see as their Intent. Immediately, Bavadin jumps out at me. Closing off her planet, as well as things like the Dynasty seem very anti-Autonomy to me. I'm under the impression that Bavadin is a very strong-willed person and is resisting her Shard of Autonomy, instead of bowing to its Intent. This of course means that the Intent doesn't change just because the Vessel wants it to, but that there is some wiggle room with how the Vessel interprets and acts on the Intent. The WoBs you quoted would go along with either of our ideas, but I feel like mine is what Brandon may have been hinting at. It would be another good question to ask though, and I'm not sure if anyone has asked this.

I've seen a theory posted a while back that someone thought Ialai might be pregnant with Torol's child. Could definitely see the douche jr having a roll in the back half. As to Adolin's punishments. I wouldn't want Adolin to get of scott free on this, and I imagine Dalinar wouldn't either. Adolin, in his guilt, might allow blame to be placed on Dalinar for a while, before realizing he has to take responsibility for his actions no matter the punishment. I think that will be a big part of his character arc this book, if Brandon chooses to delve into Adolin's character even more.

I've updated the OP with a few new additions, just in case y'all haven't seen that yet. I'm thinking of doing my own version of @Extesian's handy chart as well, as I really like that train of thought and think it might be more likely that there's groupings rather than pairs (especially after those conflicting WoBs). I'm rather doubtful on the grouping names, but if I get around to doing that I'll ponder that a bit. Here's the new list: Preservation Ruin Dominion Autonomy Odium Devotion Endowment Ambition Honor Absolution? Cultivation Tribulation Enlightenment Enigma Purity Synthesis? What do you guys think? I'm still not too sure about most of the green ones. Absolution looks like a good one, I just have a hard time imagining what such a Shard would do normally. We also have to consider which Shard is the one that isn't on a planet. Personally, I'd pick Purity, if I'd have to bet on it, however, there is a planet named Purity which led to picking it as a Shard in the first place. I just added Synthesis as an opposite. It's a good synonym of Amalgamation, and I find it a bit more likely.

Preservation and Ruin are closer opposites than either C/P or R/C. Ruin seeks the destruction of all things. If he had his way, he'd have broken down everything to it's most basic state. Preservation wishes for nothing to be destroyed or be changed, and if he had his way, nothing would age or break down, and the would would be a snapshot of a moment frozen in time. Cultivation could be seen as related, but the way I see her is more of a manipulative change, having to do with grooming people into the thing you want them to be, or how you would cut and grow different parts of a shrub in order for it to look the way you want. It's not as clear-cut of an opposite of either of them, which leads me to think logically about it: Why would the paired shards be two that are somewhat close, rather than two that are exact opposites? Plus there's the "basically confirmed" bit that I was talking about where Brandon refers to them as opposites in different places. All this is out the window if pairings and opposites aren't even a thing, obviously.

Correct! And here's the joke: "Hey, have you seen Vasher?" "Who 'Zahel' are you talking about?"

Yep. And if you look a little closer you might find Vasher as well. (And when you find him, I'll tell you my favourite joke!) He's hiding under an alias. Look for someone who notices things he shouldn't be able to, and uses strange metaphors. Welcome to the Shard! Have an upvote and watch out for cookies.

@ZenBossanova IIRC, the Shard from Silence Divine was called Decay, which Mr. Sanderson changed to Ruin and moved to Scadrial. I don't think there are any more Shards in the Rosharan system besides Honor, Cultivation, and Odium, otherwise they would have talked about it in Arcanum Unbounded. Anything in Silence Divine is technically not canon, but I admit I haven't read that one yet, so I'm not sure where you're going with the powers seeming contradictory. Paradox does sound similar to my idea of Enigma/Mystery, though. Sorry, I'm not quite sure where you're going with the last bit of that...Please clarify. I am so looking forward to that letter. I'm gonna hunt some of those WoB's as well. Fair enough, for some reason I'd mashed them together in my head. I like where this is going. I was just thinking a bit more on a possible synonym for Mercy and Forgiveness, and I found Absolution which can really include justice, forgiveness, mercy, and possibly even righteousness all in one. For some reason I don't like the thought of an "Absolution" Shard though. But maybe something very similar. Would also make a good 'opposite' of Honor, as you could use it do Absolve Oaths. Yeah, I don't know how I'd make a comprehensive and simple list without doing it this way. I'll probably keep it how it is until we have confirmation. I've thought of the obvious Betrayal and such, but if we're looking for "god attributes" they don't seem like likely Shards. A view of god is obviously different from person to person, so perhaps we shouldn't delve too deeply into what that might be... I like Amalgamation, but I'm not sure if it's 'encompassing' enough to fit a Shard. I think it's along the right lines though. (Enlightenment was on my list by the way...) I'm with @Pagerunner on wanting a source on that. And with the Ruin/Cultivation thing, the words he said were "compatible" not "opposite," and I think it means Intent-wise, the two would have been compatible because their Intents lined up, but I don't think that that means they're pairs. Especially since Ruin and Preservation are basically confirmed. UNLESS there is a confirmation in there being groups of four, then I could see Cultivation being in the same group as Ruin and Preservation, with whoever else is her 'opposite'. If there is a confirmation on that though, I'll update OP to be in groups of four instead of two, and honestly I might like that a bit better anyway.

I know about that AMA, but I thought I saw somewhere that they would do both, as one was a non-cosmere Q&A and we'd already set up the other? It may have been someone's hope that I remember though, not sure. I shall hold out hope that there will be one, at least. Sweet! I'll edit the OP with that info, thank you. That one wasn't in the database that I could find yet, which is why I didn't remember it. That's the best description I've seen of that yet, and I think I like it. The only problem I see though is that, if Odium needs that many things to 'temper' it, then wouldn't that make him stronger than most Shards by himself? I might be thinking with my flawed reasoning still. Was the accepted headcanon still 'pairings' or was that formally debunked? I think you got Aona and Skai mixed up there. And on Mercy being included in Devotion...I'm not sure I'm convinced. I can see how they might be similar, but they are two wholly separate things in my mind. Devotion means "love, loyalty, and being enthusiastic to a person, activity, or cause" and also has to do with religious worship, whereas mercy means "compassion or forgiveness shown toward someone whom it's within one's power to punish or harm." The only parallel I see is between compassion and love, but the compassion isn't a syllable to mercy in itself. The Ambition/Endowment pairing that I'd made more uses the opposites of 'giving yourself up to others' as opposed to 'taking of others for yourself,' not as a 'hope' thing. Also, yes, ugh, Autonomy frustrates me so much, especially after reading White Sand. Bavadin seems to act against her Shard's Intent almost constantly. I think that Frost was confirmed to not be holding a Shard, back when people were figuring out who the letter was being written to. I think Brandon said "It's not a Shard, it's someone on Yolen," etc. Also, the fact that Frost says 'join me in my oath on non-intervention' makes it sound more voluntary than anything. I could see something like non-intervention or Autonomy being paired with Cultivation, however. Enlightenment was my dad's idea. I was thinking Wisdom or Knowledge but yeah, it's totally better. As I said in my last post, I'm still not convinced Silverlight has a Shard on it, as that would take away their claims at being the 17th Shard. Though, if there is a Shard of Enlightenment, I would bet that the 17th Shard would have their hands on some Investiture at the very least. It is possible that the 17th Shard has some pure Adonalsium Investiture or something like that, that they've given a command on Non-Intervention to, and that's their "17th Shard." idea. Do you mean to say Justice as an 'opposite' of Purity? I admit I'm usually one of those people who likes to tie in Justice with Honor, but your explanation of there being other Orders that follows the pattern makes sense. If there were a Shard of Justice, or even Retribution, I'd expect it to be paired with Mercy or Forgiveness. One thing I would like to say though, is that Retribution or Justice would be the result of a combination of Honor and Odium. I think I'll add Tribulation to the list for now, it's a better idea than anything I've thought of as a Cultivation pair.

I have thought about that. The WoB I think you're talking about was mostly a RAFO, but it went on to say that "Not all of them are clear opposites like Ruin and Preservation." It could be a matter of interpretation, but I've been thinking about how to word that into a question that won't be RAFO'd (maybe it's been long enough that he'll be willing to answer). If you're right, then we have less of a way to figure out Shards, beyond the process of elimination. That would explain why Brandon's been pretty fuzzy on Odium's 'opposite'; it might be that there aren't any real opposites. I guess we'll just have to ask and find out I've thought of Love being a Shard as well, but I usually put it within the realms of Devotion, as they are quite similar. I remember some old WoBs from before people had pulled 'Devotion' out of Brandon, but he'd been trying to narrow down Devotion's Intent for a while, and one of the possibilities IIRC was 'Love'. For this reason, it seems unlikely (to me) but Brandon could have liked the idea and moved it to another world. On Silverlight: I've never liked the idea of Silverlight having a Shard (at least not of the ilk that we know). The reason being is that Silverlight is the home base of the 17th Shard. Why would they call themselves the 17th Shard if they're already powered by one of the 16? However, the scholarly intent Shard that you mentioned could be Enlightenment, which I have on my list. They're guesses. Confirmed are in red, guesses are in green. I find these Shards to be likely candidates following the pattern of godlike attributes; two big ones that we don't have yet are god's all-knowingness, and god's mystery, which I put on my list as Enlightenment and Enigma.