Scriptorian

a black shardpool.

Could the Hemalurgic properties of one of the metals be to steal reputation points? Maybe that's what Lerasium does,

I read the mistborn series while taking a class on calculus-based Newtonian physics, so I couldn't help but formalize a theory on how steel/iron allomancy would actually work. There has already been a topic on how weight is related to the strength of push/pulls, and you can read it here http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/3307-weight-has-nothing-to-do-with-allomantic-pushpull-strength/?hl=%20allomancy%20%20mass%20%20weight. But I want to introduce a new theory (with a bit of math) that I think clears up a lot of the confusion. I'm not incredibly physics-savvy, so I explain something terribly wrong, I apologize. (For the sake of efficiency, when I say allomancy, I am referring specifically to Iron and Steel) The Force of Pushes and Pulls First, I am operating under the assumption that weight is only tangentially related to the force an allomancer can exert. Instead, it is actually the mass involved that is important. Weight is the force exerted on an object by the planet equal to the mass of the object multiplied by the acceleration due to gravity. Most people (including the mistborn characters) probably mean mass when referring to allomancy. So I came up with an inverse-squared formula to determine the force an allomantic push/pull can exert. F= (A x (m1 x m2))/(r2), where F is the resultant force, A is the coefficient of Allomantic strength (I'll get into this later), m1 is the mass of the allomancer, m2 is the mass of the object, and r is the distance between the two masses. (The force is positive for Lurchers, and negative for Coinshots). I based this off of the Newton's Law of Gravitation since the principles involved appear very similar to me. When the earth pulls on an object, the object is actually pulling on the earth with the same force. However, the earth has so much more mass than the object so it effectively doesn't move. If a much larger object, like another planet, were to come near the earth, then both it an the other planet would move towards it at noticeable speeds. And again, if a much more massive object, like the sun, where to come near the earth, you wouldn't see the sun move,, just the earth. This is very similar to how a Coinshot can send a coin flying, but be pushed into the air by a much heavier object. The coefficient of allomantic strength accounts for the varying levels of power between different allomancers. This variable changes depending on how hard the allomancer is pushing/pulling (i.e. by flaring). In this way, both the mass and strength of the allomancer are important to the amount of force he/she can exert. Both the allomancer and the object are affected by the same force, but the less massive object accelerates much faster. The force also decreases quadraticaly as the distance between the object and allomacer increases. So I did some math the figure out about what this coefficient of allomanctic strength would be...and kept doing things wrong. At first I made the mistake of assuming a coinshot was pushing on a coin in free space, which resulted in a Coinshot strong enough to move planets. Then I tried having him push against the mass of the planet, which came out to him being ridiculously weak. I finally realized that when you are pushing off of a coin, your effectively pushing off a certain amount of ground, not the entire planet. I have no idea how you would calculate the mass of the ground however, so my formula is now un-provable without some more concrete measurements of allomancy . Feruchemical Iron This theory requires some pretty weird physics concepts. There's been a lot of discussion about what is actually stored with Feruchemical iron, but I think this theory coveres it pretty well. Basically, there are two different measures of mass: gravitational mass and inertial mass. Gravitational mass affects the gravitational field exerted by an object, and also how it is affected by other fields of gravity. Inertial mass is how much an object resists changes in motion. So far as we know, the two values are the exact same for any object and are functionally the exact same concept, in the real world. However, in the Cosmere, it appears you can change one without changing the other. I propose that Feruchemical iron merely stores the feruchemist's inertial mass. This means that nearly every force will affect the feruchemist as though they had gained more mass when the feruchemist is tapping, and vice-versa for storring. Gravity, however, affects the feruchemist the same as normal. The difference is, say when the feruchemist jumps while storring, the force of the jump affects him much more, with gravity affecting him the same, resulting in a much higher jump. Similarly, while falling, drag affects the feruchemist much more, resulting in a slower fall. This also solves the issure of the feruchemist suffering not crushing themselves while tapping, because their atoms become more resistant to motion in direct correlation with the increase of inertial mass. This increase in inertial mass would also factor directly into my above equation for allomancy. Since the force is directly proportional to the mass of the allomancer, tapping iron results in a greater force, both on the allomancer and the object. However, the increased force accelerates the allomancer the same as normal force the allomancer is now proportionately more resistant to motion. Now a potential hole in my theory is that the reverse should also be true. Decreasing your inertial mass would make forces affect you more, but would also reduce the strength of your Push/Pull. In the AoL, Wax is more affected by Pushing while storing Iron, and I can't figure out how to account for this mathematically... I wanted to have a bunch of physics and math extrapolated from this...but most of my calculations were really flawed.... Anyway, thoughts? Criticism? Any real physicists who wants to tell me I explained this all wrong?

I don't know...I bet pizza is powerful Cognitive aspect prevalent throughout the Cosmere, so the air would know exactly what to turn into. The same is probably true of bacon...What else did you think the Sinew essence comes out as by default?

http://brandonsanderson.com/annotation-mistborn-3-chapter-seventy/ So I guess you could argue that Allomancy was a side-effect that Leras didn't intend for, but at least we can identify for the most part why some people are potential allomancers and others aren't. (The amount of Preservation inherent in some one's Spiritweb, which simply varies from person to person, with notable increases when lerasium enters the gene pool) On the other hand, we can't figure out why only Terris people could be feruchemists, since it probably has very little to do the Preservation/Ruin ratios in a person. I'm just sayin' that there's probably some spooky, behind-the-scenes, mojo going on with Feruchemy, and we simply don't know enough to say what yet. Edit: Are you arguing with me just because you're an Evil Librarian?

Oops, my bad! It was probably completely irrelevant anyway. I guess I was using "design" a little loosely, but I still think that the magic systems each required some kind of consent of the shard. Preservation had to give humans a bit of his power for them to use it, so there's a definate origin to allomancy. I guess all I'm saying is that the assumption that Feruchemy just kind of arose by itself as a consequence of the two shards feels rather incomplete.

My theory is that Feruchemy has deeper cosmere implications than what we know about. I think that maybe it was around pre-Shattering, but it wouldn't have necessarily been in a form we would recognize since the storage reciprocals wouldn't necessarily have been metal. When by whatever means it was introduced to Scadrial, the focus became metals to fit with whatever aspect it is about that planet that is connected to metals. The thing is, Preservation and Ruin each designed their respective systems. Who designed Feruchemy then? And why was it limited to a specific population? This to me says that its origins are beyond what we know currently of the worlds history. Perhaps Hoid somehow introduced it when he organized the Worldbringers? REDACTED Also, we know that Hoid can use Feruchemy, but in way we haven't been able to identify, so I suspect he is related to this mess.

Wow, that just up-voted me to mistborn...So when do I get my shardblades?

Meh...I'll take two shardblades and a nugget of lerasium please .

i like the idea of an Electrum-Twinborn, partly just to be different, but I also really like the idea of never being depressed, and seeing the future in just plain awesome. Barring that...shardblades are the coolest thing ever, but not particularly useful in real life. (Though I would have a hoot every time I go through airport security knowing they could never actually disarm me.) How about Axies' ability to change his body? Sounds pretty handy to me.

Sorry to double-post, but I actually came up with my own Epic. Primary Power: Sonic projections. He can create virtually any sound within earshot of himself. He can and does use this offensively to fire massive concussion waves, but he uses it primarily to create super-epic-awesome theme music wherever he goes. This makes for very dramatic entrances and fight scenes. Secondary Power: Super-reflexes, almost precognition, with correspondingly enhanced physical attributes. This makes him nearly invincible, and he can preform nearly any physical feat simply because it looks cool, in fact, his powers are dependent on this. The "cooler", more exciting, or epic the scenario, the stronger his abilities get. Correspondingly, the less epic the scenario, the weaker. This is somewhat of a weakness, a fully armed and armored military is doomed to lose against him, but he is limited to near-human capacity against a crippled old lady. This is why he always projects his own theme music, it gives him a minimum threshold of coolness. (This power probably also prevents him from dying of old age, since aging is not very epic or exciting.) Weakness: Other then the limit on his secondary powers, he cannot eat spinach. Merely tasting it makes him lose his sonic projection powers, actually swallowing it makes his other abilities stop working as well. This persists until the spinach has completely passed through his system. Name: Cinema Epic Evil: He thinks of pretty much everything as an action movie. He views almost everyone as an extra: only there to get in the way and be killed. He doesn't go out of his way to kill innocents (he actually thinks he's a super hero), but he is quite willing to let people get killed if they slow down the action. It takes a lot to become a "major character" in his mind. Costume: A black mistcoat (just 'cause) with matching fedora.

Primary Powers: Control over any metal object, control other people's emotions, sense the use of other Epic powers, conceal his own power usage from similar abilities. Can create stationary time-dilation fields, as well as see the past and future of himself and others. Seeing other's futures alone makes him nearly invincible against anyone without precognitive abilities. Secondly powers: Can draw upon nigh-unlimited stores of any human attribute. This results in a Prime Invincibility, he can heal from any wound and doesn't age. Weakness: His source of power is the metal bracers on his forearms, without them he is virtually powerless. Also, aluminum blocks many of his abilities. Name: The Sliver of Infinity Epic Evil: Rules as a living deity, slaughtering any who challenge him, but mostly remains aloof from the common affairs of his Empire. Wait...this sounds really familiar.

The question is whether or not lerasium is instantly consumed, unlike normal allomantic metals, which you can stop burning and resume at-will until its completely gone. I do wonder exactly what the variation in effects is for burning different amounts of lerasium. Does burning a small amount just make you a weaker mistborn? Is there a minimum threshold to still become a mistborn? What would happen if you burned a whole bar of it? What in the Lord Ruler does it do besides this "side effect"? I like your "Lerasiumind-nightblood-shard blade-hemalurgic spike". Sounds very painful.

I like the rep system, I haven't even been a member a month and I already almost a mistborn (that will be so handy for getting to class)! P.S. Are we talking average-power mistborn, or lerasium super-mistborn here? If it is lerasium, then I will happily lend mine to a feruchemist for five minutes to figure out what the heck it does feruchemicaly.

Thanks Argent! Edit: I wonder how many people actually get what my avatar is of. I know this a site for people who catch obscure connections, but... P.S. (It's the Allomantic and Feruchemical symbols for Electrum. I'm a nerdy Twinborn!)

You could always store age in an atiummind.

Something that occurred to me the other day (and I don't think anyone has pointed this out), is that if you can transfer storage from a nicrosilmind into any other metalmind, than a full feruchemist could live for a very long time by simply transferring easy storage, like weight, into an atiummind. This overcomes the limiter on Feruchemical atium that you have to spend just as long old to become younger. With nicrosil, you just have to spend time weighing less! So the inevitable outcome of this is that a feruchemist should live on a tropical island (storing heat), each milkshakes all day (storing calories), weigh less, store sight to keep the sun less painful, and convert all of these stores into age and live forever in a paradise.

Sell, just because I would assassinate Brandon if he never finishes it. Rock will challenge someone to a Peaks-style dual in Words of Radiance (and win).

Great reasoning, I hadn't thought of pulling the coins from behind before. But, ummm, spheres are not metal...They're glass, that's how you can see the gemstone glowing inside.

I just felt embarrassed because I may have actually said things like that to people (at least in trying to convince them how awesome his books are). Edit: Hey, at least we can all take comfort that such a facade would never work on a 17th sharder. Co-worker: "Yeah...worldbuilding..magic...blah..blah" 17th Sharder: "I know! So do you have any ideas on the feruchemical properties of Lerasium?" Co-worker: <head explodes>.

Buy, unless something finally makes him move on, Kel will definitely be messing with stuff. WoR Shallan will actually use her shardblade at some point in the next book.

Buy, But he will not get them by simply killing another shardbearer.

There is a lot being said here, so let me just sum up my thoughts on feruchemical nicrosil. I assume that any magical power source can eventually be broken down into investiture. I'm guessing that a shard's power is essentially pure investiture, and we know that Preservation/Ruin could directly power allomancy. Therefor by tapping nicrosil, you could power any allomantic power without the need for metals (like Vin using the mists). Hypothetically, it could also be used to power any other magic system as well, with the limitations being that the users spiritweb has to be set up to use investiture in that way. I.e. a mistborn could fuel any metals but a misting could only use it to fuel their one. I believe this is why the Lord Ruler's allomancy was so powerful. He would compound something, store it as investiture, and then have a near-limitless supply of super-allomantic power. We know that his metalminds were only partly atium, so I'm betting that they were primarily composed of nicrosil. This would also mean he only had to wear those two metalminds and still have access to all feruchemical powers. And he would only need to burn any metals while compounding. For a twinborn, I would think that they would have to be burning their metal to store investiture, since this is the only way a misting can access that innate bit of Preservation. Essentially you'd burn your metal for a while with a significantly reduced effect, then you could tap investiture for a huge power boost.

You pose some interesting arguments...but kindly allow me to blast some holes in your theory. 17th shard members: we know they were acting under orders from someone who personally disapproves of Hoid, so for all we know, their intentions are good, but misguided. Besides, Galladon calls him "Roamer" not "Evil Mastermind" or something. Yes he betrays Shai, but this results not only in the stabilization of an empire, but also nudges that empire towards great positive reform. I personally am not inclined to think that Hoid is the Ars Arcanum author, but even if he is, it is quite reasonable to conclude that Hemalurgy has the greatest potential impact on the Cosmere given its rather adaptable applications (He/she/it isn't necessarily advocating its use). Eh...he does have a knack for being around trouble... With Siri, Hoid gave her far more information than anyone else could have (unless you assume he knew about the Pahn Kal rebellion). And what was he going to tell her? "I'm an ancient and silly worldhopper from before the universe broke, and the people you thought were your allies are actually manipulating you and have been from the start of the book." And this scenario turned out far better than other possible outcomes. If Hoid had intervened on Scadrial, lives would have been saved in the short run, but ultimately Ruin would have escaped on his own, probably killed Hoid, and destroyed the planet. Again, despite all of the deaths, this ended considerably better than it could have. Everything we've seen from him indicates that he tries to remain anonymous, far from installing himself as a pseudo-deity. Your argument also presumes that he is powerful enough to confront all of the evil forces in all of the books, but if he was really evil himself, then why doesn't he "intervene" on behalf of the bad guys? The most he ever intervenes is through dispensing information...to the good guys. He probably does have a lot more investiture than most people, but he never uses it except for the occasional worldhop. If he really is an evil mastermind, then he is an unsuccessful one, since all of his "plots" end up with the good guys winning. Especially when he actually takes part in the events. Arguments in favor of Hoid being a good guy: He gives Kaladin a super-pep-talk through storytelling that leads to him developing his surgbinding, which leads to him saving Dalinar and two thousand bridgmen. He established both the Worldbringers and Worldsingers as sources of historical preservation and cultural understanding. He abandons his original objective in the Well of Ascension to help and guide the Terris refugees. He opposes Odium. He plays a mean flute. Umm...we have absolutely no evidence that he ever does anything to try and kill people or rule them or anything, despite there being ample opportunities for him to do so. He is, however, a liar and a thief. But so is Wayne. Edit: I was applying the Assuredness Movement's techniques here. We really don't know near here enough to make any certain conclusions. Errorgance, if you will. It would be a very Sanderson twist to pull an evil Hoid, but I don't see it happening.

Just figured it out myself. Write the text and highlight it, then click the third button on the right on the top (Special BBCode) and select spoiler from the drop menu. It will format it for you.