Robinski

Ahhh, I misunderstood - I totally understand taking a break from submitting. Like the house / wall / picture / floor analogy. I think there is potential for Seth to be more interesting - he's a bit of a cookie-cutter character at the moment. Then again, we've hardly seen him, so maybe he is more interesting, but I don't think you've sold him to us as such, so far.

Details comments below, but I must say I am considerably happier than first time around. I guess it’s hard to be objective the second time, knowing what’s coming, but I like the way you’ve toned things down wrt Seth’s dialogue and behaviour. With that dealt with, the thing that stood out for me was Candace’s think-iness, which delayed the payoff of several lines, and made certain silences feel uncomfortable even though, in reality, her thought would be over in a second or two probably. On wider issues, ‘I think Mandamon is right’®. I think it’s a mistake to think that a story will be better if you shelve it to gain experience. You should write the thing that fills you with enthusiasm. I mean let’s not kid ourselves, you’ll need to come back to it again once it’s finished, and again, and again if you submit it, get comments, submit it, get notes. I'm taking a break from ‘Without Honour’ only because I needed a break for two / three weeks. I'm writing a contemporary urban cyberpunk-ish short, deliberately to challenge all of the shortcomings highlighted by the excellent RE Crew, but it’s only a pause – and I'm doing it expressly to feed tone directly back into ‘WH’ which, in my head, is different from what you’re suggesting. What if you let go now and never get the feeling back for EoR? I say grasp the nettle, peddle to the mettle. Anyway, what’s it got to do with you? I want to know what happens to Candace, I want to read her wielding that katana. --------------------------------------------------------- Page 1, paragraph 1 – Infinitely better already , for me, much better first paragraph. Please accept my apology for a comment on meaning, but too good to miss – ‘risky’ in place of ‘treacherous’ would make the comment about smoking and drinking deliciously ironic. Page 1, p2/3 – ...and the introduction of the cop is better handled too, less gorgonzola and a simple explanation of Eddie Bauer to save me G**gling. Page 2, p2 – don’t like ‘entangled’ personally. Page 2 – The bit with him dodging around the patron’s chair feels choreographed. I don’t think it adds anything, and actually breaks the tension of his direct approach (for me anyway). Page 3, p4 – Similarly, I think this sidebar breaks the tension as we wait for him to speak Page 8 – Well done, you got me to Page 8 before I cringed at “…but I simply cannot couldn’t go through the rest of my life knowing that I didn’t try to meet you.” Page 9 – “Okay then, dusky-hued woman of mystery…” – I can’t quite believe I'm saying this, but even ‘pretty lady’ would be better than this. I think his phrase is too ‘lounge lizard’ for a southern gentleman. Page 13 – I hope there is some significance to the watch, and it’s not just shameless product placement. Page 17 – ‘They both stepped off the curb’ – superfluous, more direct without it.

I found this story intriguing, but as I read, some issues arose. I found it a little too convenient that Temujin turned up to save Joan so quickly after she realised she had no money, I was enjoying the tension of her situation. Also, I thought it was naive of her not to think of money, but I'm possibly being overly critical on that score. I'm not keen on how the macho men reduced Joan to a quivering teenager by their mere presence. I appreciate there is a nice turning of the tables at the end, but I didn’t think her reaction set well with my imagined image of her. I felt her piety was at a pretty low ebb in places. I thought the ending was nicely handled, very dramatic, and I'm glad you weren’t tempted to play out how Joan’s bout went – leave them wanting more! As Writing Excuses would say, surprising yet inevitable – well done. Looking back on the piece now, and the comments, I agree with others about the why. I can accept it as an amusing diversion – a curiosity – and at that level, I can suspend my disbelief, but when I start to think about it, the why starts to bother me a bit. It’s not that I think every story has to have a message, but I think it needs a premise with some substance, a reason to exist – which I think is lacking here. If the premise is ‘Who would win in a fight between Genghis Khan and Hannibal, then I don’t think the fight goes on long enough, is well enough researched, or has a serious enough tone. If the premise is ‘How tough was Joan of Arc?’ then we don’t get the answer. This said, I think you might get away with it as a fluff piece, but only if the language is much slicker, and I think a fair bit of polishing would be needed for that. Entertaining though, thank you! --------------------------------------------------------- Page 1, paragraph 2 – ‘firry’ – furry? Page 1, para 3 – ‘seize up’ – does this refer to frisking / searching? I'm not sure it’s clear if that’s the case. If not, I'm not sure what you’re getting at. Page 1, p4 – ‘Your’ > you’re Page 3, p1 – ‘he had a leader's and a warrior's spirit’ – sounds clumsy, like a word missing after leader’s – I think you need to pick one and go with that. Page 3, p4 - $200, although I don’t like seeing numbers in stories, for me that’s technical writing – maybe it’s just a personal foible, but I would rather see ‘two hundred dollars’ – or ‘dollar’ to emphasise his pigeon English. Page 3, p5 – "Only cowards leave themselves a place to retreat to." – Ooh, I don’t like the bar lady, she has an ignorant opinion there. I'm willing to bet she doesn’t have a family or anyone who depends on her. And then Joan agrees, minus points for Joan too. Page 3, p10 – Asian. Page 3, p11 – some of the dialogue is very unnatural. I realise it’s not your first language, so I feel like a heel for making the comment, but it doesn’t help for me to gloss over it, I think. For example, and please forgive my presumption, but... "You know I wouldn't tell you if you don't already know. Rules are rules. But," she lowered her voice and shot Joan a sidelong glance, "anyone betting on you this night would have very high odds indeed. If, that is, I allow you to enter today." Versus "Rules aside, and I know I'm teaching my grandma*, but," she lowered her voice and shot Joan a sidelong glance, "your odds are sky high, if’n I let you enter at all." [* to suck eggs] Page 4, p1 – I don’t see how Hannibal’s English would be so good compared to the others. Page 4, p3 – Why would Joan of Arc not know what an elephant is? Joan was born in 1412 and died in 1431. Wiki indicates Silk Road trade reaching its height in the 12th century. In the 1260’s some Italian travelled to China. Jordanus, a French missionary, wrote of his travels in India in 1329. Also, Hannibal crossed the Alps in 218 BC, so I'm not convinced about Joan’s ignorance of elephants, unless she was an uneducated peasant of course, I'm certainly no expert. Page 4, p8 – ‘Move body you men. Make room for Elephant to lay down’ – brilliant line, love it! Page 4, p9 – ‘he must have been a formidable fighter, judging by his muscles and stature’ – Why? Just because he has muscles doesn’t mean he isn’t a clumsy clot or a lumbering oaf Page 5, p2 – LOL, the great Genghis Khan kicking his opponent’s ankles is a comic image. Page 5, p3 – ‘hovered over his opponent like a dark thundercloud’ – this sounds to me like Hannibal is taking a long pause. Why would he do that, giving his opponent an opening? Also, punching with both fists must surely reduce the power that a single blow would have, because of the inability to turn one’s shoulders into the blow. I'm no boxer, but I am a golfer, and I know that the power in a good drive comes from the rotation of the body, not the swing of the arms, which are only there to hold the club, so imagine a similar dynamic applies in boxing.

It works for me, but I usually find there is a delay of about 5 seconds before my text appears - not sure what that is, but maybe it's the root of the problem? Anyway, I have your emails, many thanks for that. I have read your comments, but have still to look at the embedded notes. I can see what you are getting at, I'm glad the Marnar/Saffen exchanges worked for you, but completely accept the situation within the group needs tightening up - No.1 on my to-do list for sure. I've always been a polisher. Up to now the chapters have been pretty much as written originally for NaNo, Chapter 8 was the first one that I edited before submitting, but it normally takes me several goes to get things into better shape, so your comments are well noted - thank you again.

Okay, so I should have read this thread before PM-ing you - happy either way of course.

First off, I like the title, it has some ambiguity about it, but early on I'm troubled by the direct comparison with ‘smoker’ in the Mistborn stories, in fact the whole nomenclature of smokers, chokers, arsonists and whisperers feels similar to Mistborn. For me you need to come at that a different way. As a prologue, I think the exposition could have been kept back to concentrate on engaging the reader with action. Better to present the reader with excitement (bangs and flashes) than description and explanation. I know that you get to the explosion, but I would cut the theory from the earlier section. I see now that others have this well covered!! All in all, I'm a bit troubled by the premise. Ben’s method of assassination seems incredibly clumsy and imprecise, and the collateral damage is horrendous. I’m not sure if we are supposed to sympathise with Ben as protagonist, but I'm really going to struggle with that after he killed everyone around the target without remorse. There could have been a dozen innocent people in the building upstairs. I’m interested enough to read on to see where the story is going. I'm not clear if Ben is the protagonist, but from what’s passed so far, I want to hear the other side and see who else is involved. I agree with others on the potential, but I’d like to see some refinement. --------------------------------------------------------- Page 1 – ‘revolving chair of the barber shop’ bothered me, why not just barber’s chair? Page 1 – I guess there is more to his line about stripping off the shirt but, for me, it makes him sound weak. Page 2 – With the fire retardant gel, I have an image of the man glistening / dripping with some shiny goo. Page 2 – ‘was obviously wearing’ – You’re telling us he’s wearing it, therefore making it obvious, so don’t need the word. Page 2 – I like the notion that Giovanni seems to have some kind of heavy duty pheromone – a powerful weapon indeed. Page 2 – I'm surprised that Ben knows the name of his employers. Would it not be more logical that the paymasters would work through an agent to protect their identity? Page 3 – ‘a better person’ – I'm not sure how it makes him a better person – a better criminal, yes, but not a better person. Page 4 – ‘he did not believe in leaving things to luck’ – I had a problem with this statement. His method of assassination has just been proven entirely reliant on luck, and his was not good. It brought me to think that the key to a good assassination is removing uncertainty, but he doesn’t seem to have gone to much effort in that regard. I remain to be convinced of his abilities.

Good comments, JP, expected nothing less and very glad to have them, as ever. And thank you for your kind words, which are great encouragement. I'm sure you have not seen the last of Without Honour - it now becomes a test of my ability to work in isolation and regroup effectively. I'm setting myself the target of finishing by October, thereby having a clean slate for NaNo - best laid plans aft gang awry, etc. etc. Thank you one and all!!

I'm still with it, I'm still enjoying it, there are some great lines and ideas delivered dead pan which I think allows the reader to experience some of Candace’s incredulity. I'm feeling the odd off note here and there, but no overriding complaints. One thing that made me stop was the suggestion that she would influence bad people to kill other bad people. Surely that compounds the sin of the person she’s influencing, which doesn’t sound as if it would be within the rules. I'm keen to see what happens when Candace gets back to Earth. You know how I feel about Chapter 1. In addition, given what’s happened since, I think we could do with a stronger indication earlier on of Candace’s badness. You’ve told us she’s a thief, but not shown that to us. Perhaps you could have a prologue that shows her in the act of doing something bad, otherwise all we have is tell not show. Looking forward to Chapter 4, I'm still feeling the potential in the story and looking forward to some action. I like the set up, and I rather like the style, but now is the big test of delivering some payback for my investment in the story and the character – now pressure!! : o ) I note Andy’s issues with the tone and the contradiction, but for me, when considering religion, I think contraction is everywhere, so it’s not jarring for me, but I’ll agree with Andy that you have to deal with the subject – preferably through Candace. I also agree with Mandamon on the contract – I'm certainly not recommending a lengthy exposition on that subject, and I don’t mind you dropping hints, as long as they’re followed up on later, but I would question Candace being willing to launch into her new career without insisting on knowing more about the contract. --------------------------------------------------------- Page 3 – ‘You wanna talk about things to ram...’ – I don’t think the contraction ‘wanna’ is necessary, it sounds very thick accent-wise, and I don’t get that from Candace. Page 4 – ‘The entire world was a naked machine...’ – that’s a great line. Page 4 – ‘...lived a bad, bad life...’ Page 4 – ‘I don’t think you have any idea just how much damage you have done.’ – I like this line, because it cuts to the heart of an issue of mine. I’ve never had any sympathy for thieves in fiction – Sopranos, Goodfellas, Bonny and Clyde, Jordan Belfort? Hang ‘em all high. People stealing stuff from good people are bad people and should be treated accordingly. Although you allude to this in earlier chapters, I don’t think there would be any harm in a vignette or an aide illustrating that she is indeed a thief and had gotten gains in an ill way. Page 4 – ‘...was of particularly of note.’ Page 4 – ‘The only thingAll that saved you from that fate was were your recent attempts to make amends.’ – Grammar Police, book him, Danno. Page 5 – ‘...why doesn’t he just kill these people himself?’ – How about ‘smite’, smite’s a good word. Page 6 – ‘...launching into a huge explanation of what The Contract is, and why, is not going to do you any good.’ – LOL, this statement is very Meta, Paul is quite right. I don’t think we need a big chunk of exposition at this point! Page 6 – ‘...a gentle kindness in his eyes...’ – Really? I'm not getting that. Page 7 – ‘If I’m an angel, shouldn’t I have wings?’ – I badly wanted him to tell her that she had to earn her wings, like Clarence in ‘It’s a Wonderful Life’ – except if the movie had been directed by Sam Peckinpah instead of Frank Capra. Page 8 – ‘They don’t make those things anymore, you know.’ – No way, man, vinyl will never die!! Page 10 – ‘Frankly, it’s considered a little gauche.’ – LMAO Page 10 - “I can’t kill. I don’t kill. Ever. Not ever.” – Felt repetitive to me, we’ve been there before. Page 12 – I find Candace’s frequent references to hell as an epithet unlikely in her situation – I would have thought that would stick in her throat given where she is and who she is with. Page 13 – I don’t mind the swearing as a principle, but I think care is required when using it. I don’t like the use of the word ‘crap’, I don’t think it fits. Page 18 – Monk? What monk? Where did he come from? I didn’t understand at first that this was a reference to Paul. Surely, he is not a monk. I was assuming this was the Paul the Apostle. I'm struggling to believe that a monk would have this level of influence and authority.

the bike sheds

Thank you guys - I'll admit I was getting a bit discouraged after the last two chapters - and we all know why, you were quite right with the comments on those. I am also heartened that you found effective elements in this chapter. I was going for a breathless stream of punctuation kind of thing, but I'm willing to accept it maybe doesn't entirely work. Thank you, Jaga, for the vote of confidence on the streamlined exposition - I think you might be a lone voice! : o ) The mixed response on killing of Teimen is interesting. I take you point, Andy, that there isn't really a Big Bad. That was deliberate - none of your stinking dark lords here, just people with a different view on life, but there is a downside to that - probably because Kavyelan's role is not well enough defined. There should be a likely candidate among the Knights of Brekia, actually, just had an idea for an early reveal that might make Vekalik's section more interesting <...reaches for scribble pad> Mandamon, always happy to listen to your proselytising. I will cut down the POV's. You've said before that you picture Marnar significantly older - I'm not sure what the others think - is it because he's got a beard? He's supposed to be older than Saffen, but not all that significantly, so I've miss sold that early on - more work for the red pencil. Really enjoyed the exchange - thanks again for your patience. I'd love to think I could get an Alpha version up in 3 or 4 months - we shall see.

Thank you Manaheim, much appreciated. The Saffen problem is the main reason I'm stopping submitting chapters, it's too central to the story, but there are other problems and I'm just going to be digging a deeper hole if I don't start back at the beginning a fix the issues that are tripping everyone up.

Okay, here’s Chapter 8. I am of course conscious of comments to date about rationale for holding Saffen captive – I’ll fix that in Edit No.1. I propose to extend a scene at Cross Paths Inn where she eavesdrops on Marnar and Gillus, and overhears their plans before they catch her. I'm not sure it’s a strong rationale, but I’ll work on it, she needs to hear something suitably damning. I’ve added to this chapter on that basis. On the plus side, there is only one setting in this chapter, although there are different viewpoints. As promised, I'm going to stop submitting this now – have a break from it – then use your invaluable comments to edit the 17 chapters I’ve written, before pushing on to the end, then I’ll bung it in Alpha Readers if anyone’s interested. Thank you for reading! Your help has been priceless. Best, R

Hi Andy, Interesting post - the short I'm planning as a break from 'Without Honour' features brain augmentation - not A.I., but still, you've started me thinking. When I think of A.I,. I go back to Asimov's 'Naked Sun' and 'Caves of Steel' - and R. Daneel Olivaw - old school. (Not been on the Writing Excuses threads before - surprisingly quiet considering how lively Reading Excuses is.)

but how can

Not to be confused with Suzanne Meyer of course.

I enjoyed these chapters more than 1 and 2. I still had some specific issues (below), but I liked the dynamic between the characters, I'm happy enough with where I think the plot is going. I think wordiness, especially in some dialogue, is still an issue. The formality and wordiness fitting well when they are acting up to the abettor, for me serves to highlight its inappropriateness when talking to others. On the water thing (below), Styn notes that it could be that magic is involved. That might deal with some of my logistical issues, but you don’t say Eril uses magic, so we can’t assume that. I'm with both of them on the first person – for me it's well done. --------------------------------------------------------- Page 1 – It’s a good opening, I'm re-engaged in the story straight away after a fair gap since the first instalment, however quite early on (in fact when the first person opens their mouth), I can feel an old issue rearing its head, namely the wordiness of the dialogue. I won’t labour it, but I might drop in a couple of examples as we go – here’s the first one. Page 1 – ‘Do you remember what I said to you when we last met in the slums?’ – Alternative > ‘Remember what I said in the slums?’ – is half the length and, I think, more natural and realistic as dialogue. I can accept adding words to stress meaning, for example ‘Do you remember what I said to you in the slums?’, but that’s still less wordy and formal-sounding than the original question. Page 1 – When there is only one female ‘in shot’, I think you could use ‘she’ more, as the frequent repetition of ‘Eril’ breaks up in the flow IMHO, particularly noticeable at the top part of Page 2. Page 1 – Why would he be surprised to encounter a man in a dirty apron in a blacksmith’s shop? I’d be surprised not to – unless I’ve missed something like the time of day. Page 2 – ‘As my feet touch down on the floor, I question whether the soles of my shoes are thick enough to insulate my feet from the blistering floor beneath them.’ [29 words + repetition of ‘floor’] Alternative > ‘Reaching the floor, I feel that the heat might burn through my shoes.’ [13 words] I'm hesitant to pick up on style – not my place some might say – but I really feel that your writing could flow much better with some work on this area. Page 3 – What is ‘lean water’? Page 3 – Hmm, this thing about the water brought me right out of the story. I see later that the basement chamber is 10’ by 10’ (3m x 3m) plus the size of the forge, so say 5m x 5m = 25m2 x height of say 2.3m (6 foot ~ 1.8m), that gives a volume of 57.5m3. When Eril says she’s going to ‘flood the floor upstairs’ with ‘just a few inches, I'm picturing 6”, maybe 10” – if it was a foot, she would say ‘a foot’. So, assuming 10” = 0.254m depth, therefore – to fill the basement – the area of upstairs would need to be 226m2. That’s 15m x 15m – a pretty big area. It’s going to take a long time to flood the floor from a domestic supply – okay, it’s a forge, I’ll give you that, there’s probably a water tank somewhere, but the flow rate will still be limited, 15 litres per second would not be unreasonable. The basement volume of 57.5m3 is equivalent to 57,500 litres. At 15 l/s it will take 3,833 seconds to produce 57,500 litres, which equates to just over an hour, and probably a similar time to drain. Also, is the floor designed to be flooded like that? Eril will need to block off the bottom of the doors to the building and any drains that exist upstairs. ‘What’s your point?’ I hear you ask, well, apart from going into the problem in an obsessive amount of detail because I'm an engineer (All your drainage questions answered – just ask Hawkedup), the logistics brought me to a crashing halt when reading that part. It just struck me that it would be so much easier, and reasonable to say, that a forge would have a stone floor to carry the extra weight of wagons, horses, anvils, forge, stores of metal, etc. etc. that would probably need to be accommodated up top. Seems to me the water part isn’t relevant and is over-complicated. Another issue, I think, is the forge downstairs – why? And it would produce significant ventilation issues, AND, if Eril is making the basement air tight, they could suffocate quite easily without an air source because of the CO2 and CO produced by the forge. Sorry – rant over. Page 4 – Cole talks like a lawyer sometimes. Page 5 – ‘...stay cognizant of that fact...’ = remember Page 5 – Why wouldn’t he tell Cole if he was a fire adept? Page 5 – I don’t understand what difference it makes if the meeting’s 5 minutes or 10, or how anything different can be read into such a small difference in the time of the meetings. Here in the UK we can talk about the weather for 5 minute or 10 minutes, actually probably closer to an hour. Page 10 – I'm not sure you can have a ‘slight grin’. Page 11 – At times, the interplay between Cole and the protagonist is very good, however there are moments of very wordy exposition (i.e. info dump). Page 13 – You refer to the estate as if it is only the house, but the estate would include all of the grounds as well (assuming that there are grounds). I would replace the word ‘estate’ where appropriate with ‘mansion’ or something like that, so that the reader gets the sense when you are only referring to the building. Page 13 – To me there is something a bit off with the terminology. Why would the Halan Estate have a negotiation chamber – surely, they would just have a drawing room or reception room. There are some other notes like this which, for me, don’t quite ring true when measured against reality. Page 14 – ‘He...likes to go fast.’ – This line really tickled me. It has always been thus... excellent. Page 14/15 – The wordy in me gained the upper hand (Oh no, relapse! – JP, Andy, Mandamon, I need an intervention!!) ...when I read your (fictional) account of the fate of Lord Rolondo, I very much enjoyed that. The account is rather grandiose, but there is such theatricality to Cole’s delivery and the earnest attention of Lord Hannal’s abettor, that it swept me along – nicely done. Page 16/17 – I enjoyed the exchange with Lord Hannal’s abettor more than earlier sections, because of the logistical problems that I had with those, but the formal style of your dialogue, which is often out of place in conversations between the conspirators, felt much more at home in this later exchange.

Thank you Mandamon. Given the issues that have been pretty consistent from the start, I'm indebted to you guys for sticking with it - very glad to hear that you are still engaged - if a bit frustrated I dare say. On Monday, demand for slots permitting, you'll get Chapter 8 which, has an extended (by my standards) action scene. You've all been very patient in waiting for it, so I hope it works for you - very interested to hear your comments. Thereafter, I will take a break and regroup.

I used to be very description heavy, but I hope I've learned that one actually doesn't need most of it. E.g. Sure, you need to tell people they're in a market, but once you've explained how big it is, most readers would have an image in their mind that was pretty close to your's - so you don't need to describe what a market stall looks like, how they are arranged or what they're selling (unless relevant). I would try to only describe the things that the reader can't know or imagine, but which they need to know for the particular impression you need or the plot. E.g. is the market busy/noisy or quiet, is there one thing that draws the attention? - an argument nearby, the smell of spices or cooking. Such things can be dropped in using a handful of words here and there, adding to the impression cheaply (in word count terms). I keep using Stephanie Collins as an example - only because I'm reading Mockingjay at the moment - but her style has provided several good examples. On description of setting she is (generally) very Spartan. If you're in the woods she'll just say 'woods', but will only describe relevant details, she would probably only tell the reader there is undergrowth if Katniss is going to hide in it, or describe a tree if she was going to climb it, for example. Hope these comments from a recovering 'wordy' are helpful.

I rather enjoyed your prologue, there was some interesting set up, I like the idea of the masks, and the image of the judges in red and the enforcers in black. I have some points on detail below, and there were aspects that did not convince me, but my overall feeling was of a piece that is a nice enough diversion, but that did not grab my attention and make me keen to keep reading. I’ll try not to duplicate the comments from others, several of which I agree with. I think the problem may be the absence of a single defining element or theme that sets the piece apart from various other submissions over past months. We have a thief, an oppressive society, an underground movement and a war or incursion by another power – not to mention a female protagonist, which is becoming a cliché in itself. These days, most examples of genre fiction use some or all of these tropes which, I think, makes it vital to frontload your opening pages with any original elements that you have in your story, even if only foreshadowing them (preferably fairly blatantly). If you don’t have an unusual/quirky/leftfield/notably original element, then it is going to put a weighty burden on the shoulders of the characters to be unusual/quirky/leftfield/notably original enough to carry the story to the end – not that I'm saying they can’t / won’t, Eve seems interesting, but she could also be most thieves off the street, so far. Another observation would be to punch-up the style a bit. I thought there was a tendency towards wordiness (which I spotted because I'm wordy in spades, but currently seeking help), and I think the narrative could be leaner and smoother in places. I'm happy enough to read Chapter 1, but I must admit I'm hoping for something that ratchets things up a bit a delivers some surprises. --------------------------------------------------------- Page 1 – ‘...radiating from the Imperial hub at the center.’ – Has to be by definition, therefore can cut the repetition. Page 1 – It starts well with the ‘thief’ thought, which is intriguing, but I don’t like that you then lapse into a lengthy description – it saps any momentum gained in the first sentence. There’s plenty of time for us to learn about the surroundings, I think it’s better to grab and hold your reader’s attention first and drip in snippets to illustrate the surroundings as we go. Page 1 – I like the idea of people wearing masks in public, I'm intrigued again, would be even better with the description cut. Page 1 – I find the split infinitives distracting, for example ‘Eve slowly made her way slowly...’ Page 2 – ‘...her own luck...’ Page 2 – The ring would fetch the outstandingly high price, not her. Page 2 – When you say that mask was the same as any other, I presume you mean its shape, since the others are all white. I think that could be clearer. Page 2 – ‘Eve spun and burst into a sprint to get away from the man in black without a moment’s pause.’ – For me, you don’t need the end of the sentence. Reading that last phrase actually puts a pause into the narrative, and the fact that she has taken the time to register the man in black’s appearance shows us that she has paused. Page 6 – I find it hard to believe that the black market would get news of an invasion before the garrison, when the society is so obsessive in the way it operates. Page 6 – I'm dubious about Jin’s guards letting her in with only a visual search. Why post two guards at your door if they aren’t going to be thorough in checking fort hidden weapons? Page 7 – He sounds like a crime lord to me – master of the underground black market, guards on his door, yelling at minions and receiving stolen goods. Page 8 – It sounded to me like the judge was almost right beside Jin with a raised sword. I don’t see how she can get across the room and out of it before the blow comes down. If the blow is fast enough to hit Jin before he dodges or runs himself, I don’t believe she can get right across the room. Page 9 – ‘...documents aren’t weren’t easy to forge. – Tense confusion. Page 9 – ‘...the gate had already been bared.’ – I don’t understand the use of ‘bared’. Page 10 – I didn’t really get a feeling for the explosion from the description, not one of the size implied by the damage. It seems to me that she would have suffered more injury, even if only from the blast, ears ringing, disorientation, being thrown back, etc. Page 10 – ‘Eve’s mind was blank,’ – There were [edit] was [Dang it!] a handful of apostrophes missing along the way.

to us now [is Lift a character? I should have read back!!]

Likewise, I'd love to put one more chapter up before I take a break.

It’s a funny thing how, even though I had a ‘fairly’ negative reaction to Chapter 1, I'm actually quite looking forward to reading Chapter 2. It’s like that saying ‘There’s no such thing as bad publicity’... And now having read it, I must say that I was much happier with this chapter. There were some things that slowed me down (noted below – most minor), but I find your writing easy to read, I think it has an easy-going style, a touch of comedy, and flows nicely in a way that makes quibbles easier to absorb. If anything, I wonder if it might not be dark or edgy enough, but I realise that we have not seen the antagonist yet, so there’s time for things to turn ugly. The theme itself is not entirely original of course, but that doesn’t mean that something done well cannot be entertaining again, and this chapter entertained me. I enjoyed the characters and their interaction, and I'm now looking forward to Chapter 3 and the explanation of the surprising ending. Another thing that this chapter does, for me at least, is to throw into even more stark relief how excruciating Seth’s dialogue was. I can see now that it wasn’t a malfunction in your handling of male characters, I could go on, but I said my piece last time. I'm not sure I agree with Andy this time, I have no trouble with the tone and the reveal of the assassin thing, I think a dark theme with a lightness of tone can work. This chapter put me in mind of Piers Anthony's 'Incarnations of Immortality' series. Styn's Pratchett comparison is maybe a bit premature for me. I will agree with Andy on the description though, as noted, it was a bit much for me too. Styn's comment about the elevator guy's radio voice reminded me to mention it too - I think Styn's right - I didn't really get it and don't think it's necessary. --------------------------------------------------------- Page 4 – ‘She furrowed her brow, frowning...’ – These two phrases mean the same thing, I would say. Page 7 – If Candace was in a dream, I could see that she might be in some way be prevented by her subconscious from making the association, but if she isn’t, I would imagine she would be starting to consider the buttock-clenching possibility that she is in heaven. Page 7 – ‘...a hard expression in his cold blue eyes, and glared at her...’ – repetition again, I thought. Page 9 – By thing point, I'm finding the level of description a bit excessive. I think it could be cut down a bit to allow concentration on the story’s progress. Page 10 – I like a good comma as much as the next person, but I think there are more than necessary in places, to the point that they become quite distracting. For example ‘A tallish, gangly, man, appeared. He wore rough, brown robes, over some sort of long linen shirt, with a rope tied at the waist.’ Page 10 – ‘...crowds of paper...’ – That doesn’t sound right to me, maybe sheaves, stacks or reams?

Thank you all for very comprehensive comments. JP – I’ll need to read Gillus more carefully if he’s coming across camp. Very pleased with your positives, of course, but I understand that, some bright spots aside, it’s been a long road to get there. I accept your point about preserving characters, there are also instances of fitting characters into situations without sufficient justification – rightly picked up and fixes required. On Celantorn, I can see that you’re right – it’s not enough for him to be there as Svar leader, the reader needs more to invest in. Your point on Teimen’s white wall is also spot on, I will fix that. The word ‘physic’, I think, works okay, but when it’s plural, there is an issue. It’s really become a place holder in my mind, but I need to give more thought to a replacement. I also need to better define the magic system too, by showing its range much earlier. Your Crimea point is interesting. As you say, the current situation there postdates WH. I think it was the West Bank, at a high level, where the basic concept came from, but it’s not especially sophisticated. The current association in my mind is with Scotland’s vote on independence, not the same situation of course, but one that has resonance – don’t get me started though. ___________ Andy – Accepted; agree; agreed; will do; thank you – glad that worked; noted*; good point+. * In my mind – but not well conveyed, clearly – was that Teimen panicked a bit when confronted unexpectedly. He felt that the weapons story was more plausible, and didn’t want to be faced with questions about who he was working for and what the fugitives had done. JP also made a point about the lack of response from Teimen’s men, which was fair, so I’ll address both of those. I added this section with Teimen last week, so it’s only had one pass. I was trying to address the lack of action. + Your point about flash points is well made and has been picked up (in different forms) throughout my submissions. It’s something I will go back and work on throughout. As I noted before, I planning to submit one more chapter (8), which has an action set piece in it – after that I need to go back to square one and re-write – I'm still hoping to do that, then finish offline and put in Alphareaders. Before I do that though, I'm planning an SF short in which I will practice meeting all of the great comments that I’ve had on my style head on to see if I am capable of ‘fixing’ them. Thank you again for sticking with it so far – I’d love to think that Chapter 8 will be a pay-off – I'm eager to get reactions to my version of ‘action’, but also slightly nervous... ___________ Hi Styn! Thank you for reading Chapter 7 and giving me a different perspective – very valuable. I'm glad you felt there was some consistency to Saffen’s situation. Others have commented differently from longer experience of the piece, and I think they have a point, it’s something I’ll tighten up, I think. I note your issue with the view points, you’re not the first to pull me up on that, but you raise an interesting rationale for it which I hadn’t considered. Put that together with comments about lack of action and I think you probably have something there – must slap my subconscious about the head and tell it to buck up its ideas. On the Saffen section, there are some clues to motivation that are not flagged in the right way – or picked up on by the Saffen herself – which I need to fix. They should (back at point of capture) pat her down for knives, but wouldn’t ‘steal’ her money, as they are not thieves (per se). To be fair, you would know that if not coming in at Chapter 7, but I accept there’s a disjoint between them becoming aware of the money and them appropriating it to further their cause – which is getting away from Svaringen. As an enemy nation, being Brekian in Svaringen would trump being a criminal – perhaps similar to being a card carrying Russian in Ukraine now. As to the wider story, see my comments above in response to Andy about submitting Chapter 8 then taking a hiatus to overhaul. Again, thank you all for your comments.

Here is Chapter 7 of ‘Without Honour’. I'm going to start giving recap notes like others very sensibly do. I'm also going to include certain corrections that I maybe have not done a great job at showing in the chapters to date, so it’s worth the regulars glancing over this too, I hope. Also, a DP so far, in case you're picking this up part way through. So, here goes, the story so far: Tensions in the region are building towards another Brekian invasion of Svaringen, the last being 5 years ago, while neighbouring powers look on and political manoeuvring continues. The Brekians’ aim is to retake the once-Brekian Yores Valley which lies between the countries. Many Svars regard the Yoresi with suspicion, as they have divided their allegiances in past conflicts. Saffen is a spirited young woman who rails against the subservient role that society has shackled her with, and her divided passions have fractured her marriage and driven her husband away. She is now travelling to enlist and put the skills practiced in secret to use, but two fugitives have captured her. Gillus is fleeing the city of Svarheim, where Brekian spies held him. Marnar is also fleeing the same band. He is a Yoresi, the Bloody Hand of Brekia, a notorious assassin who killed the Svar king 5 years ago, although his identity is not widely known. The Brekian spies need him to play some role in their plans, but Marnar has no desire to aid them, having lost faith with Brekian values and aims. Damiel is a physic, a user of supernatural powers learned from a master in Brekia. He is a Yoresi and key member of the band of Brekian spies that work in Svarheim, plotting to once again kill the King of Svaringen.

"This isn't right..."