LiquidBlue

Safari and I don't agree when it comes to autocorrect. I caught it changing Allomancy to Allowance, but missed this. Those people seem to be quietly relaxing... Little do they know that a mistborn is stealthily approaching and will burn the atrium in pursuit of unstoppable power. It's a theory. I think that Renarin's future sight is related to using spiritual illumination. It is not clear that every order is able to use the surges in the same way. For example, could Kaladin use spiritual adhesion to speak foreign languages? I am not sure that he could. I'm playing around a little with Shallan using spiritual illumination. If she can use spiritual illumination, it does seem realmatically reasonable that a type of spiritual illumination would be similar to allomantic gold. Since Shallan is already doing something that is somewhat similar, it makes me ask whether a more skillful use of the surge might actually be able to flesh out the other personalities a bit better. It could be as simple as the requirements involved in making essence marks. Shallan hasn't really tried to make her personalities realistic alternate histories. If she spent a little more time trying to establish the alternate personalities as plausible developments if her past had been different, she might be able to pull more fully developed details out of the spiritual realm. Since she also has the soulcasting surge, her abilities maybe able to completely replicate the effects of an essence mark.

A small theory. In allomancy, gold, electrum, atrium, and malatium all work in a similar way and reveals possible futures or alternative presents. Renarin's form of illumination seems to be a type of future sight, perhaps a type of spiritual illumination, and may work through similar realmatic process as atrium and electrum. What if regular illumination can reveal alternate presents like gold or malatium can? Shallan creates alternate personalities which are incomplete because she doesn't actually have the experiences these alternative personalities would have. What if it isn't so simple? She may not be able to recognize it, but what if she is using illumination to pull in little bits of alternate Shallan? Is it possible that as she becomes more accomplished at using Illumination that she will be able to pull on experience that is not her own?

Thanks for sharing the WOBs. Of course people have asked all of these questions before. That was an awesome post. I remain intrigued by the latest WOB that I quoted, it is curious Brandon that explicitly states that there are allomantically viable things besides those already known in-universe. (Which, I agree, may simply refer to the topics that have be asked about)

Yes, this is basically what I am asking. Besides any natural investiture interference, does copper allomancy provide protection against other type of investiture use? Basically it is the flip side of bronze. If bronze can detect non-allomantic uses of investiture, can copper protect against other non-allomantic uses of investiture?

wiresegal Could someone burn an Allomantically inert metal that was Invested, like Invested silver or Invested lead? Brandon Sanderson I'm gonna give you a no on this one. I rarely give straight up "no"s, but you've got to remember that the Allomantic metal is the key, and the power behind it is gonna be inaccessible without the key. Now, there are more things that are Allomantically viable than have been discovered or talked about. But that's the problem right there. If it's not the right metal, if it doesn't provide the right... I'll just stop at key. If it isn't the right key. We'll get more into this as the Cosmere progresses. That's a very rare no for me. Usually you're gonna get a "well, it depends." source This new WOB jumped out at me a little. We know that you can burn feruchemically charged metal, god-metal alloys, and hemalurgical spikes for different allomantic effects. Knowledge about burning a metalmind is now widespread. There is at least one instance in-universe of burning a god-metal alloy. And at this point, there isn't any in-universe mention of burning hemalurgic spikes. Do you think that when Brandon says, "there are more things that are Allomantically viable than have been discovered or talked about" that these are the only things that he is referring to, or are there even more things that might be allomantically viable? I haven't give it much thought yet, but here are a couple of off the cuff thoughts. Folowing the example of burning metalminds and hemalugic spikes, I'm thinking about what other magic systems might have an effect. -People have already talked about burning shard blades (and shard plate?) -People have talked about burning god metals of other shards -What about awakened metal? You would have to start with an allomantic metal, but what happens if you try to burn an allomantic metal that has been awakened? This seems somewhat similar to burning a hemalurgic spike since in both cases you are burning a metal invested with parts os a person's spirit web. -What about metal that has had an Aon inscribed? Does it matter if you are near Elantris, or if the allomancer is an Elantrian? -What about a metal that doesn't merely have an Ion inscribed, but has an active Aon on it?

I think that void binding is something that is available to humans as well. There is a pretty strong prohibition against trying to divine the future. This seems to be a memory of human voidbinders.

Does a copper cloud protect the user from other applications of investiture? A copper cloud prevents a seeker from sensing the use of investiture in it's area. Burning copper protects the allomancer from emotional allomancy. Does a copper cloud provide protection against other uses of investiture? For example, does burning copper protect the allomancer from being soulcast? Does burning copper protect the allomancer from a leacher? Does burning copper interfere with a blood sealer's ability to track you?

Is the slime growing on Elantris' and the lichen growing on Taldain sand the same thing? If not, are they related species?

It very could be that the animals eating the sand also prepare it so that the lichen can continue to grow. My impression was that the animals eating the sand weren't so much consuming the lichen as they were consuming the investiture in the lichen. This is a very interesting point. This is my head canon for now. I'd think that there is enough natural investiture on Roshar for the lichen to grown, but it is very likely much too wet and humid for it to grow or thrive.

Can a hemalurgical spike be made and left in place? If so, does the person suffer the same physical consequences as they would if the spike had not been left in place?

So performing hemalurgy on someone is going to result in their death or grievous injury. However, when a spike is received, the body accepts it, molding around it even if placing a non-hemlurgical spike in the same place would be fatal. The eye spikes of an inquisitor are a good example of this. A person can have a spike made from them, and if they survive, regain the ability by having the spike given back. But what if the spike is never removed in the first place? Does merely driving the spike in and stealing an attribute result in grievous injury and death, or does the subsequent removal from the body cause the mortal injury? Is it possible to make a spike and leave it in place? In another thread we were talking about spiking forged abilities, but I think that there might be additional times that self-spiking can be helpful... For example, a lot has been said about dying people donating their abilities. One of the biggest challenges with this is that the hemalurgy is probably going to kill them. What if you could spike someone, and let them continue with their lives until they die, after which the spike could be collected. I think that if the knowledge was given to the Koloss tribes, they could adopt it as a way to make new spikes. Either non-spiked members of the tribe could be spiked, and when they eventually die, the spike could be collected to make new spiked koloss. Or they might even have tournaments where each participant is spiked, and the participants then fight with the victor taking the spikes of the defeated. Kandra could get new blessings. I imagine that some Pathians might agree to have a blessing spike made from them, if it didn't cause injury and death. The Kandra wouldn't have the quandary of using blessings with violent providence.

I was scrolling down to the bottom of the thread to make this point. I think that this is probably one of the few times that self-hemalurgy makes sense. I don't believe that you would have to give the spike back, just leave it in. They might not even suffer any real physical injury that way. I agree that the spike ability isn't going to revert. I believe that in forgery, the forgery ultimately fails not because it ran out of investiture to maintain the change, but because the original nature of the item is pushing back against the changes and may eventual overcome them. Once the attribute has been spiked away, there is no longer any thing pushing back against the change. In some ways a forger using self-hemalurgy makes a lot of sense. The hemalurgical spike pins parts of the soul forgery in place. It is a funny image to imagine a forger walking around with a bunch of spikes so that they can permanently keep various attributes of their different essence marks continuously in place.

Give it to Nale and crew, because Nale. His experience is probably the deciding factor here, but when you look at what he can actually do, I don't think that Kelsier, Wax, and Vivienna have a good counter. The three abilities that put him over the edge are surgebinding gravitation, surgebinding division, and healing. His opponents really don't have anything that can get through his healing, Kelsier and Wax will be hard pressed to match his mobility, and we haven't even seen what Division looks like, but I think that it is pretty devastating. If you allow Nale to keep his shard plate from being a 5th level radiant, it is only icing on the cake. I think that the only thing that could really shut Nale down is if Kelsier is able to use Chromium to drain all of Nale's stormlight.

Unless they are an allomancer. The Taldain invested lichen can live and absorb investiture off of Taldain (Wit had some living sand with him on Roshar)... Actually that's an interesting thing. Is there a reason that the Taldain lichen isn't spread all over the place on Roshar. There should be plenty of free investiture in the High Storms to feed it. I think this means it needs the Taldain sand as a substrate on which to grow. Or it requires a very dry environment.

Has anyone commented on the terminology that Khriss used? She referred to 10 "levels" of voidbinding. It is not conclusive, but that suggests that there is some sort of hierarchy in voidbinding, perhaps similar to the heightenings.

Shallan vs. Wayne. I think that in general Wayne is going to come out on top if it has to do with disguises and information gathering. Shallan is still faking it to a large extent. Wayne has a vast library of skills and experience. Steelheart vs. LR. Hard to say with the incompatible magic systems. That being said. If the LR knew Steelheart's weakness, I'm pretty sure that he would come out on top. There has to be a way that the LR could Feruchemically remove his fear for Steelheart. Perhaps by storing intimidating memories in copper, or through the manipulation of identity or connection. The LR isn't just a Feruchemist and a Mistborn, he is also one of the most knowledgable Hemelurgists as well. Again, they are incompatible magic systems, but I'm not sure Steelheart's invulnerability would actually protect him from an Atrium spike. (I don't think that Steelheart's invulnerability would protect him from having his ability taken by Larcener). ***One more thought, Allomatic atium might be enough to kill Steelheart. If you see yourself killing Steelheart, it might be enough to trigger his weakness. Team Radiant vs. Team Kelsier. Seth doesn't have an honor blade or night blood. Sazed isn't ascended. Marsh is an Iquisitor (but not iron eyes). This is tough. I think that I'd give it to Team Kelsier. Lift and Renarin really aren't acquainted with dealing out violence while everyone on Team Kelsier are. (I'd put Sazed's familiarity with battle above Lift's and Renarin's, and Sazed can potentially one-shot everybody if he has enough speed stored up.) Given an environment where steel pushing/iron pulling effectively allows for combat movement and flight, I think that the Scadrians come out on top. Team Misting vs. Team Ferring Does the steel fearing have enough speed stored up? He wins. Is there a Seer with enough Atium? He wins. Otherwise, team misting wins. The ferrings' powers just don't give them as many combat options as the mistings.

Do people in the physical realm try to keep spren as pets? Are there spren which are suited to be kept as pets?

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] I'm really curious if a tinmind could store the ability to sense pain. Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Yes, that is theoretically possible, yes. Yes. source Thanks to whoever asked the question. You guys are awesome.

I agree that it seems like they would only be able to store the ability to use stormlight and not stormlight itself. That being said, I think that there are a number of synergies between being a surge binder and being a feruchemist. 1) Storing healing. A surgebinder/feruchemist should be able to have nearly as much health available as a double gold twinborn. They can effectively convert stormlight into healing. A gold metal mind is a much more stable storage of health than stormlight infused gemstones. 2) Storing breath. It isn't clear how helpful this is, but I'm sure there is something clever that could be done here. Perhaps as a matter of speculation, could stormlight be stored in a cadium mind? 3) Depending on the passive effects of stormlight is it also possible to store physical strength, warmth, wakefulness, or energy? (Could stormlight be stored in a bendalloy mind?) 4) Storing the ability to use stormlight might be useful. What does it mean to be a stronger surgebinder, or more powerfully be able to take in stormlight? A surgebinder is going to have long stretches of time that they can store their ability, and could release it in large burst when needed. I have a theory that one of the effects of being a more powerful practitioner is that you gain an intuitive use of its powers (this theory is based on the 6th heightening.) So a feruchemist(nicrosil ferring)/surgebinder might be able to wield powers and intuitively understand surgebinding that other surgebinders can't. 5)What about the synergy of surges and feruchemy? -Spiritual adhesion as a source for storing connection -Soulcasting to make unlimited and rare metalminds

I am certainly not well equipped to address what exactly a big-G God in a philosophical sense means. It does seem like some of Brandon's themes are perhaps motivated by a mormon vision of apotheosis, but those themes are perhaps more generally in contrast to both traditional philosophical monotheism and the mormon viewpoint. I don't want to disrail the thread, but for the curious, may I share a little mormon theology. I think that my explanation is common mormon thought. However, if you want official doctrine, the best place to get it is probably in a publication from the church called "Gospel Principles", anything that I share beyond that might be my own personal elaboration, or incorrect cultural traditions. God is omniscient. There isn't anything that he doesn't know. Nothing will surprise him. There is no additional knowledge that invalidates or modifies any of his knowledge, motivations, or actions. God is omnipotent. It isn't helpful to get into a discussion of an impossibly hot burrito. If it is possible, God can do it. God is not omnipresent. He is aware of everything. His power and authority suffuses everywhere. He is not physically/bodily everywhere. God has a body. God has a physical tangible body, localized in a single location, and able to interact physically with the world. He is immortal. He suffers none of ravages of mortality and cannot die. God the father, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost are all God, but distinct beings. Jesus is the firstborn of God's spirit children and distinct from the rest of God's children in one very important way: Jesus would never fail and would never require a redemption. As a being of spirit before his mortal birth, Jesus created the world. He is the God with whom all of the prophets interacted. When he was born, it was as the physical child of a mortal (Mary) and a God (God the father). Jesus was mortal, yet could not die without his own consent. When he resurrected, it was to a perfect, immortal body identical in nature to that of God the father. The Holy Ghost has a spiritual body. Beyond that not much else is known. To be honest, we don't even know if he is another of God the Father's spiritual children (in which case, I think that we would have to conclude that Jesus is not the only child who would never fail), or what his ultimate destiny is. All we really know is what he does and how we interact with him. God the Father once had a mortal existence and become God through a method identical to the current plan of salvation. I think that there is some evidence that he was the savior in that iteration, fulfilling the role that Jesus' does here. God is not alone. Gender is an eternal characteristic that has meaning for us as pre-mortal spirtual beings, in mortality, and in the eternal immortal state. God the father is married to a God the mother. Together they made all of their spirit children. I see some speculation, that persists somewhat today, that God must have many wives in order to have all of the children that he does. However, I think it is more doctrinally sound to recognize that everybody that is part of this instance of the plan of salvation are children of the same Father and Mother. If God has multiple wives, then their children are part of a different instance of the plan, with their own Savior. The ultimate promise of the plan of salvation is to become as God is. The power and authority of God cannot be wielded except by those who are like him. As such it's glory will only come after progressing from principle to principle. So mormon apotheosis, but you aren't going to see gods at odds with one another. You don't get the worship of more than one god (mormons don't really distinguish between the worship of God the Father and Jesus). And there is no such thing as a being with power that they are ill-equipped to handle (except, I suppose for mortal beings and the power to choose for themselves.) I think that this is quite distinct from any of the gods in Brandon's works; none of whom are omniscient, omnipotent, infalible and can be at odds with one another, can act with deception, and can have power that is beyond their own understanding and temperament.

I find it interesting to look at religion in a universe where "there is always another secret." In the Cosmere you can find some truth; however, it will be followed up by "Yes, but..." So, there are a lot of religions, and most seem to be a mix of objectively untrue teachings, true facts, and untestable claims. And the facts can be followed by a "yes, but..." Honor is a god, but he is also a vessel that holds just 1 of 16 shards. One of the beliefs about the court of gods is that they are actual gods whose combined will molds and controls reality. I was going to point out that this is an example of an objectively untrue teaching; however, when compared to the belief in the "One", it is possible that it might in some sense be true. I think Brandon is doing a great job in writing stories about characters who might be called gods by various definitions, but in a universe where atheism and agnosticism is an objectively valid position. It is quite interesting to see religious beliefs compete when in some sense they both have truth. On modern Scadrial, it would seem that Pathism would be the obvious choice to follow, but Survivorism might have a surprising amount of truth, and some off-the-wall religion like Trellism might also have some truth. It is not even the case that there are multiple gods in a single pantheon or even competing pantheons, for the most part it is the result of different standards for what should constitute a religious belief and the social history that passes down those beliefs.

Shallan as Autonomy. We don't know what the Avatar business is about yet, but Shallan's multiple personalities seem to fit.

Yeah, now were getting down to definitions. I just strolled through Arcanum. There have been a lot of questions about Nightblood and shardblades. To summarize, it looks like Brandon says that they are pretty much the same things, except that they're not. Nightblood is a cracked, vastly more powerful, twisted imitation of a shardblade. A bunch of investiture shoved into a sword and awakened to sentience and purpose not a splinter manifesting as a blade in the physical realm. That's why I said Nightblood really isn't a shardblade, because pretty much every time he is asked, Brandon tends to point out how Nightblood is different from shardblades. In my post, I was using an unstated definition of shardblade. A shardblade is a splinter manifesting as a blade in the physical realm. I think we can also add that the shardblade form and function is defined by a pre-existing template or prototype. The definition for shardblade that I used might not be the most useful one. Nightblood can be rightly considered a shardblade, but he kind of isn't as well.

I imagine that it is because his father was involved with or oversaw the process of him being named truthless.

Dalinar can't lose because Odium already chose him as his champion.