Leuthie

I've been interested in Shin for a while. It's the designed safe haven for Ashyn humans, protected from the Highstorms with similar flora and fauna to Ashyn. It's where the Heralds, or someone else, decided to hide the Honorblades. It's a culture that doesn't step on stone. It's a culture that punishes someone who claims the Knights Radiant are returning by giving him an "oathstone" and an Honorblade to be a full slave to whoever holds the stone. Really. Szeth made me want to know what kind of kooks run the place.

An Elantrian is tied to a Seon. The Seon replaced some of the Elantrians requirements for life. One of these requirements was the ability to heal. The Seon's provided ability was much better, so it's a boon. But when the Seon was put in statis, the Elantrian couldn't heal, so wounds built up until the Elantrian was mindless from the pain. This problem among other things. Knights Radiant don't have anything replaced by the spren, only added. The spren, however, are actually using their Connections to humans to push themselves into the Physical. They've replaced a piece of themselves with something human. So it's kind of a reverse of the Elantrian issue. When the Connection changed for Seons, the Seons were instantly put in stasis. When the Connection changed for spren, they didn't notice because they had replaced that Connection with the bond. When the bond broke, there was no Connection and they were put into stasis (deadeyed). Humans weren't effected because they're the dominant in this bond (where the Seon is the dominant in the Elantrian bond). The Human didn't need the Connection that was broken. Neither do unbonded spren, as they haven't replaced a more natural Connection with the Nahel Bond Connection.

I think you're pushing the "don't change" thing a bit too far. You're basically saying they can't be convinced of something. If the direction of gravity can be changed 180 degrees with a little infusion of Investiture and Intent, then a spren can be convinced to drop their hate when the reason for it is removed. They don't change like we do, but they aren't statues. Something convinced a good number of honorspren to seek out bonds again. Why can't something convince a good number of others not to hate again?

Scadrial and Roshar are the most prominent planets because we have seen a lot of stories surrounding them. We are familiar with them so we believe them to be more important than they are. Brandon then picks a (non-canon) piece of an unpublished story that shows the future of the conflicts, and we naturally pick out the elements that are familiar and name them the most important. As planet begin mining each other for resources, the Shards will push their populations to catch up either through technology or magic or both. By the time shown in the Sixth of the Dusk clip, I'll bet there are more than just Scadrial and Roshar vying for power around the Cosmere.

Once Maya told them that the spren chose to break bonds and didn't know they'd die, the arguments were dead. Lasting Integrity's reticence to bond was due to believing that humans had betrayed and killed their spren unilaterally. When that was shown to not be the case, the fact that there existed a spren that had been killed recently didn't really matter anymore. The narrative had completely changed for most of them and the single mindedness of their fight was gone. It's not that Shallan creating a deadeye doesn't matter anymore, it's that it never did to begin with. Lasting Integrity hated humanity when they thought humanity had intentionally killed spren en masse. They don't care that current spren can be deadeyed. They now have to question that hate.

Cryptics and honorspren are completely different cultures, almost completely alien to each other. One is mostly Honor, the other is mostly of Cultivation. One was completely eradicated by the Recreance and has had a Herald fanning that flame to keep them from running off to bond (which many honorspren are doing anyway). The other sees the aspects of humans that would create the emotional reactions that honorspren are using as their rationale for hating Adolin and company as the very things they seek out in their bonds. There's plenty of internal consistency. And you're keying on the city of honorspren where those who would never bond humans collect. If you hadn't noticed, there were a lot more Windrunners than Lightweavers. It seems that not all honorspren are unwilling to bond, wouldn't you say?

It seems the end of the first 5 books is heading toward fixing the Recreance. The back 5 will probably work back to fixing the Desolations, considering that at least one of the Heralds is a major viewpoint character. So it's probably the back 5 that will give us background to the whole thing. But I agree with the idea that the story behind the Recreance is more interesting than the one behind the Desolations. Big Bad comes with Pawns1. Big Good convinces Pawns1 to leave Big Bad. Big Bad convinces Pawns2 that Pawns1 are horrible invaders. Pawns2 notice Big Good is helping horrible invaders. Pawns2 feel betrayed and join Big Bad. Pawns1 see that Big Bad is at the head of Pawns2. Pawns1 start a war with Pawns2 to take down Big Bad. Pretty sure that's how it went. The story behind how it escalated to Fused and Heralds and Oathpact and cycle of Desolations would cover a chapter or two and I'd love to see it. But the Recreance. Start with the Knights Radiant consuming itself from the inside due to a long period of peace. Then, Usurper (BAM) turning the Singers to fighting machines again and Knights Radiant having to pull together to fight. Urithiru Spren backs away from the Knights Radiant and humanity. Then Bondsmith captures the Usurper. Singers end up compliant husks of barely sapient beings. Knights Radiant discover that humanity are the conquerors, had destroyed their home world and have just turned the entirety of the native inhabitants of Roshar to less than zombies (at least zombies hunger). Surges are deemed too dangerous and Knights and spren all decide to drop their bonds, with Skybreakers staying to enforce the decision, probably breaking their own oaths once everyone else breaks theirs. Then all of the spren die unexpectedly and the world is thrown into chaos as the remains of the spren are used as indefensible weapons for the next few hundred years. Skybreakers don't break their bonds (for obvious reasons). Somewhere in there, Big Good becomes a raving lunatic then dies. Truthfully, we have then bones of both stories. I think they both have some surprises and will both be fun to get details on, but I look forward to getting details of the Recreance more than the Desolations.

Just because you don't trust someone, doesn't mean they aren't right.

Neither were all singers turned to parshmen. The Listeners were fine. The Listeners refused to bond spren and ran away. They lived in dullform for a long enough time to simply forget about forms. Spren that were bonded weren't affected. Spren that were bonded weren't affected until those bonds were broken. Only people that had undergone the Shaod were affected by the change in Aon Rao. They were all fixed as soon as the broken Aon was fixed. In terms of Connection, there is a Connection issue with deadeye spren. There was a Connection issue with the Shaod after the Reod. When the Aon Rao was fixed, the Connection was fixed and the Elantrians were fixed. Brandon has hinted here that the same will occur with deadeye spren if the broken Connection is repaired.

Cultivation and the spren are banking on a future sight that a bonded Shallan will free BAM and bring all deadeyes back? This would explain the willingness to risk "death" to bond her. If she succeeds, you'll be brought back to life, anyway.

From tonight's livestream paraphrased: "There should be a relationship here that reminds you of something you've seen in the Cosmere." This was in relation to deadeyes and how something is going on with them. My first thought was the Hoed and other Reod Elantrians: We've already been led to believe that the capturing of BAM created a situation where broken Oaths resulted in deadeye spren. Has the DisConnection of BAM from Roshar has led to the Roshar equivalent of a broken Aon, and the ReConnecting of BAM would fix the "Aon" and instantly bring back all deadeyes?

Ever since we got the see the Nightwatcher first hand, I've thought it was either a rehabilitated Unmade, or a rehabilitated deadeye. There was one Bondsmith during the time of BAM being imprisoned. What if there was one Bondsmith during the Recreance. What if the Nightwatcher was deadeyed and Cultivation has spent the last 1000 years training her dead child, using the Curse-Boon trick to both give the Nightwatcher some socialization experience and to torment humans for hurting her daughter? I do hope we don't have to wait till the back 5 to learn about the Nightwatcher, what she represents and why she sits in a spot with her mom and hands out free rides and candy.

I'm going through Lirin's lines regarding Kaladin, and I'm not sure I understand the vitriol against him. I can understand disagreeing. Especially if you think Lirin would be willing to sit as a slave and do nothing no matter what. Lirin wishes to do no harm, and I have a feeling that is the direction that the 5th Ideal is going to take Kaladin. Before the Regals came to take Teft and Kaladin killed one and sent the other away, Lirin and Kaladin had a discussion and Kaladin actually agreed with everything that Lirin said. There were definitely ways to help others and to move the cause forward without fighting. Shortly after, Kaladin, seemingly unprovoked, attaked a Regal in Lirin's home and killed him in a very messy way. Lirin reacted with anger and tears at the murderer he saw in his son. To be fair to Lirin, he doesn't have the context with Kaladin that we do. Even Kaladin was questioning his decision to attack and steal Teft away before, during and after he made the decision. This wasn't a black and white issue at all, and there's no evidence that Lirin would NEVER fight back. I'm not 100% sure Kaladin helped anyone's cause by putting Teft in a closed room and spending his time and energy on the run. It's quite possible he made the wrong choice. "I can and will!" Lirin shouted, standing up. "Because I will take responsibility for what I've done! I will work within whatever confines I must in order to protect people! I have taken oaths not to harm!" If Lirin had a spren with him, he would have stated 3 different Oaths there. Looking through the entirety of Lirin's quotes in the 4 books, Kaladin will reach the 5th Ideal when he truly understands why his father doesn't fight. The two of them have basically argued over the Windrunner Ideals the entire series and the only one left is the one most of this thread is stuck on. I will do no harm when protecting others.

Cultivation's vessel is the original vessel and would be someone as old Hoid. Hoid said there's only one person as old as him around. So the old person he's referring to is Cultivation's vessel. I don't think Hoid was a thousand years old when the Shattering occurred. If he was one hundred and Cultivation's vessel was 20, that's still close enough 10,000 years later to be considered the same age. So I don't think there's any trickery going on there. Brandon confirmed that Cultivation's vessel is a dragon. Brandon deflects and RAFOs when he doesn't want to let information out. He doesn't try to trick. That answer would be a direct attempt to trick. If he didn't want to let that info slip, he would have RAFOed it.

Rock says he's going to the gods. Then he refers to Wit as the one god who lives in Urithiru. So it's pretty obvious, along with their much higher Cosmere awareness, their proximity to Cultivations Perpendicularity, and their abilities, Horneaters send people out as worldhoppers. Rock, due to "this thing I have done here with all of you", is being sent to do something off Roshar and won't return.

I've known and tried to help several people with their addictions in my life. Each and every one of them were horrible people until they finally addressed the issues that turned them to their addictions. Horrible. I understood them. I had compassion for them. But if they never succeeded in shaking their issues (and a few of them never did), they would still be horrible people. Knowing the reason why someone is horrible doesn't make them less horrible. Them trying to fix the issues doesn't make them less horrible. It's only when they go through the entire process to either remove the issues, or deal with those issues in a better way, that they are no longer horrible. You also have to look at how someone views the world when they aren't in the grips of their addiction. Moash refuses to, even when feeling good, address any issues in any way. He actually seeks out representatives of people that want to end his friends to find ways to avoid actually addressing his issues. He literally tries to make his best friend's issues worse when his best friend doesn't follow him down the dark path. So no. Moash is a horrible person and I have little compassion for him. No one is irredeemable. No one can't get through their dark times and come out a good person on the other side. Most people literally have to hit rock bottom* to gain enough motivation to get our of their own way. But Moash has done nothing to address anything, literally killing people in an effort to avoid addressing anything. *Actually, this concept is similar to saying that you found the thing you were looking for in the last place you looked. Rock bottom is where ever you fell when you made the full commitment to get back up and successfully did it. You can always fall farther. Moash, blind and aware he killed a good friend and a man he respected, can still fall further. There is really no real Rock Bottom.

Vyre had no trouble using Stormlight. Kaladin had little trouble using Adhesion. Lift had no trouble using Preservation. The Fused had no trouble using Voidlight. Radiants weren't just blocked from using surges, but were rendered unconscious. Venli was not knocked out and was able to use Surges. Teft was able to awaken on his own. Lift was able to "heal" the unconsciousness. When the blocker was unreversed (the Voidlight was removed from the tower systems/the Sibling), Vyre lost his Connection to Odium and regained his feelings. I can only conclude that the device blocks Connection. In normal use, it blocks Connection to Odium. In Voidlight use, it seemed to block Connection to Honor. Since Stormlight fuels all Radiant surgebinding, a Connection to Honor is provided by spren. If you block that Connection, the bond between Radiant and spren gets severed. The bond itself is controlled by the Connection to Honor, as evidenced by the Stormfather being the one to grant increased Ideals (for the most part). Severing the Connection to Honor for both Radiant and spren resulted the bond being temporarily interrupted, in the spren losing their intelligence again, and the Radiants being shocked into unconsciousness. This unconsciousness is easily fixed by reverting the Connection to their spren (which also fixes the spren) via Preservation (where the Cognitive ideal of having the Connection can be used to reattach that Connection). Vyre's Connection is handled by the Honorblade which is probably beyond the reach of the device The Connection probably tries to reform after the device is turned on. The stronger the spren or the Connection, the quicker the Connection can reform. So there was a time limit on the Radiants being knocked out. Even after the spren-Radiant bond Connection reforms, the Connection to Honor is still broken by the device so surges that require that Connection are blocked. Surges that use other Connections are still available. The Connection that Honorblades have to Honor is different and left unbroken, or Vyre uses his Connection to Odium as a conduit to be able to use the Connection to Honor that the Honorblade provides. Lift's Connection to Cultivation keeps her and her spren together. Kaladin is still a mystery and obviously has more Connections than just to Syl.

I was mistaken That's embarrassing. But it does point me away from "Son of Tanavast" having anything to do with Syl. Kaladin has some other powers besides just Syl watching out for him. "Nebulous spren watching out for him" was mentioned in the WOB Thrill question. And doing the things that Kelsier is doing being dangerous suggests there's a Connection to...something that Kaladin has besides his Nahel bond. Syl's questioning the darkness in him suggests Odium filling cracks, but that's a more recent trend and doesn't mesh with being a "Son of Tanavast". He could be a descendant of the Vessels, but then there would be many others and it seems whatever Kaladin is is singular. I wonder if there's some hints in the time he spent in Highstorms in Way of Kings. Was he bonded to more than just Syl and are there lines that would hint as such?

I have no idea what the Fused were able to do while they were stuck on Braize, but I assume they can't spend their downtime doing scientific research. This leaves only the Desolations as time that Raboniel was capable of doing any type of research. Desolations were, from all descriptions, constant war. So Raboniel's entire 7000 years was spent in stasis or in war. So any weaknesses Raboniel has on the scholarly side would come from her limited opportunities despite such a long time period.

Not a redemption arc. That would take too much time and I don't want to see him as a villain that continues into the last 5 books. A redemption death is most likely. He comes in an saves Kaladin from something, even something he may have caused, and dies in the process. This would be a good bookend on the character. Either that, or he continues to descend into compete madness and we get to "see" it through his blind eyes.

Who said the Sibling doesn't have that option? The Sibling doesn't want to exercise that option because the actions Navani has take before and since the bond don't warrant it. The Sibling isn't completely sold on Navani, but the conversations post bond show that the Sibling would rather work toward improving the situation with Navani. If the Sibling wanted to drop the bond, they would have. So this argument against the bond is one that ignores the Sibling's wants and needs and assumes it's powerless to Navani's coercion, which just isn't true. Narratively, the Navani-Sibling bond has more possibilities for conflict than a Rlain-Sibling bond. If Brandon wanted to put the Sibling storyline aside after this book, he would have bonded Rlain-Sibling. The tower would fully work, the Radiants would be nearly whole and Brandon could focus in other directions. Since he bonded and kept bonded Navani and the Sibling, there will be more conflicts to write about going forward. So I like the bond because it means more story involving science, fabrials and the Sibling.

Maybe Brandon didn't spend enough time on it or highlight it enough, but page 1098 and 1099 in the hardcover (second viewpoint of chapter 102) contain some pretty good reactions to her failures. She goes on to think about her fear and her hope that there is someone who has a plan: Now you can interpret this section however you wish. Those who hate Navani and her arc here are going to interpret "way out" as a way to deny the horrible things she made. I see it as her looking for a way to fix it, to attone for it. She didn't understand what she was making when she made it. She was just following the science (to use our words). She only realized afterward that Raboniel and the enemy could use her developments to kill spren. After Moash comes to kill Navani and Raboniel turns him away for a different task (a consequence of Navani developing the relationship with her enemy in an effort to find some way to win), Navani again asks for guidance, for something from the Almighty. Then she finds the dagger with the rest of the anti-Voidlight that she uses to finally kill Raboniel later. From this point on, she simply does the next thing she can think of to atone for what she did wrong. To find some way out. She sets the trap for Raboniel, sings the anti-Voidlight tone to show the Sibling that the Voidlight can be removed, that the tones of Roshar are still there, she convinces the Sibling to bond her, she clears out Moash and the rest of the Fused and sets the Sibling and the tower right; she sings the rhythms with Raboniel, a final wish for a worthy adversary that just wants the war to end, then kills her which the Sibling calls a kindness. I believe Sanderson is saving the fallout from Navani's developments for the beginning of the next book. However, Navani did look back on her choices and felt guilt and regret while still in mortal danger from Moash and the rest of the Fused. While the Sibling was still being attacked and she still needed to find a way out. She made these reflections in the heat of the moment and used them as motivation to continue to push forward. I guess I see these moments of regret before the final battles as enough penance. Especially considering the final outcome, her words with the Sibling, her "kindness" to Raboniel (and the Sibling recognizing the significance and agreeing with Navani on it) I'm sure there will be further issues, but those will be Navani working with others to find solutions to the problems she created: Fabrials and captured spren, anti-Stormlight and dead spren (which the Sibling doesn't hate her for, so why should we?), and the chaos of the tower.

Actually, the duress was there when the Sibling brought up Rlain. The only reason they brought up Rlain for bonding was after Navani suggested bonding her. Who's to say whether or not the Sibling would have bonded anyone had there not been the threat. If the Sibling had bonded Rlain instead of Navani, it still would have been partly due to the duress they were under in being threatened with unmaking by Raboniel.

There's evidence that Galivar and others have gotten the visions from Stormfather prior to Dalinar, so he could have spent years looking. And the Sibling has to have been watching and learning while Urithiru was occupied. Even if the Sibling then preferred Rlain, the Sibling had still spent time looking. It's possible this is the first time the Sibling has ever accepted a bond under such duress. It's also possible that the Sibling (and the Stormfather) never make a decision on a Bondsmith until such duress occurs and the "years spent looking" are simply waiting for such occurance. So it's just as likely this isn't the first time it's happened. I'll let you have the last word.

We have seen two people become Bondsmiths. Both of them require some form of coersion under duress to form the bond. While it's a small sample size, one wouldn't be remiss to assume that every Bondsmith was created under duress in a similar fashion. Unity requires political struggle, which usually requires concession and coercion to accomplish. Requiring a future Bondsmith to break through a reticent spren's protests to create the bond actually makes sense if the ultimate goal of Bondsmiths is to unite groups of people.