Leuthie

The Sibling spoke to her about that. Something along the lines of: "Consequences once chased only humans. The Recreance made those consequences ours. This has simply sealed that fate as eternal" One of the problems with Roshar is that there are way too many immortal beings. Now there are less.

Oops. I made an edit to make it less untrue.

I'm sorry, I thought this was a discussion forum. You're totally right, my little aside doesn't impart any truth to this matter. Good catch. Should I delete it to not taint the building thesis or can I leave it in and just keep it as part of a casual discussion?

Reminds me of a friend of mine. He hated his dad through his teens into his twenties. His dad is one of the more fun, smartest and most stable people I know. They had a running argument for a decade and my friend just hated him. We're in our 40s now and my friend loves his dad and regrets the ruin they made of that decade. He literally didn't let his dad get near the grandkids for the first 2 years of their lives. I feel like all you Lirin haters are seeing through the eyes of Kaladin and other 20 somethings trying to break away from strong fathers.

Sorry, yeah, that makes sense. To be fair, DID wasn't used as an excuse for Shallan to kill. Shallan planned and prepared for the killing and Radiant carried it out to hide it from Shallan. Veil existed to hide the past. Radiant exists to hide the present.

Thank you for looking all those up. Lirin made Kaladin who he is. Kaladin loves Lirin, despite the few lines we see where Lirin lets his principles get ahead of his love for his son. Also keep in mind, Lirin doesn't see everything we see. He doesn't see Kaladin's struggles, only Kaladin's glory. His son went off to war, got rewarded for it and now thinks war is the answer. That's what Lirin sees.

Did you all miss that Lirin put the damn shash glyph on his head? The only way I could hate Lirin is if I also hated my own father and accept that my kids will hate me. I learned long ago that my father is a good, flawed man who didn't know how to handle a piece of him forcibly breaking itself away from him, and I've learned to love him for it. I see that in Lirin. And so does Kaladin. Does anyone remember why Tien was sent off to war? Why both his kids went off to war? Lirin does.

I'm going to focus on this one because this kind of virtue signaling and guilt fishing really pisses me off. It's completely counter productive to the push forward for acceptance of all prejudged people. It puts those who are trying to learn and change on the defensive, often making them actually give up, and doesn't do anything to make more people try. It's using acceptance as a source of odium. And it comes from the same arrogant ignorance that the problems people are trying to solve come from. Shallan didn't have MPD/DID because she was hiding a murder behind being a different personality. Hell, she didn't even create personalities to hide the fact that she killed both of her parents. She created a personality specifically to wall herself off from the trauma of killing her best friend, a spren (there was probably also damage done to Shallan as a child by the mechanism of breaking Oaths). This is EXACTLY what MPD/DID is. I think Sanderson handled this whole thing relatively well. Her new traumas made her confront the truth and she "absorbed" the persona she created when she no longer needed to hide. It may have been frustrating to read, boring, confusing or just not fun, but it definitely wasn't "perpetuating the worst stereotype". His toughest test as far as being true to this particular mental health issue is coming up, with Shallan being "fixed". She's kept Radiant around. Veil was created to hide her shame. Radiant was created to hide what exactly? It represents her bravery, but it's named after her primary affiliation.

Didn't really take a careful read, but yeah. I didn't read past that first section where he Ascended. Oops. Thanks for catching that. Here's the paragraph:

Hoid's mysterious Fortune ability sends him to places for reasons even he doesn't know. This time, it sent him to the Shattered Plains to meet with Odium, who he is now protected from due to the contract Odium signed with Dalinar. Hoid generally doesn't know why he is sent to a place and has to figure it out. In this case, he was lecturing on misdirection to a group of corrupted windspren. Why? Because that's what he does when he arrives at a place. He finds an audience and begins a story or a trick. He is prepared for Rayse-Odium and what Rayse-Odium might do or be able to do with him. This, IMO, would include his Investiture Memories. Why would he not protect something so easily protected when going to meet a god? It also appears that Odium simply found and removed his mistake in the conversation that clued Wit into him not being Rayse. Showing Hoid's loss of perfect pitch suggests more, but we have no clue how much Breath is required to store how much memory. It's also likely that Hoid holds just enough Investiture to have perfect pitch and losing any amount messes with it (which would become a great indicator if someone was messing with his memories). I can only think that they were both trying to play each other and Hoid has been at it much longer than Mr. T has. Whatever happened, Hoid wasn't fully tricked by the brand new Vessel. Hoid sent his spren away. Hoid knows someone messed with his memories. Hoid has to know a Shard WOULD mess with his memories. Hoid let slip a very visible reaction to his internal thoughts just before Mr. T went in. This was orchestrated to trick Odium, whether Rayse or not.

Rayse's body was consumed by Nightblood. It turned to black smoke and drifted back into the background Investiture. Taravangian's body was never a Vessel. Szeth killed him before he Ascended. So we won't find out.

Keep in mind that Odium (the Power) wanted to separate from Rayse (the Vessel). Nightblood attacked the Vessel directly and killed it the same way it kills any lifeform; after all, the Vessel is ultimately just a human (or other sentient lifeform) that picked up the Power. If the Power wasn't trying to leave the Vessel, it might have protected Rayse. As it happened, Rayse was just standing there able to be killed, like a dummy. In the Physical Realm, Nightblood is made of steel and the Honorblades are made of a metal (could be Honor's godmetal, could be some other). Both blades are heavily Invested. Nightblood is probably more Invested than the Honorblade. The Investiture difference is probably what lead to the Physical material being damaged, when it would normally not be. I don't think anyone was fed to the Honorblades. The Shin used to Honorblades for training regularly, so they weren't left around long enough to form minds of their own. And I don't think they Honorblades themselves have that much direct Investiture. They are Connected to Honor and create a Connection to Honor in the user when they're used.

A simple answer could have been: "All Investiture has Intent."

Nightblood corrupts Investiture, turning it black (red is the color of corrupted Investiture as light, black is the color of corrupted Investiture as smoke). Anti-light annihilates Investiture. Creating explosions, not smoke.

Has the combination of Hate and Honor been very good for Roshar? While they were both around, Roshar was locked in never ending war. Raboniel called it Warlight, the mix of Voidlight and Stormlight. Think about what Honor and Hate together might actually mean. I don't think it would mean less Hate.

Rayse was trying hard to be Honor's opposite. Hate and Honor play off one another to create the never-ending cycle he was in. He was trying to push through the cycle by making himself Passion but the Shard wasn't having any of that. At least, that's how I interpret it.

Connections. Cultivation now has a direct Connection with the Vessel of the third Shard on Roshar. Connections mean a lot. She also has a Connection to Dalinar, the closest to becoming a Vessel for Honor. The why is really impossible to answer without knowing her state of mind. Per her Shard's Intent, there has to be some preparation for growth involved. She gave Dalinar the room he needed to grow. She provided Mr. T with the tools to put him in a position to threaten Odium. Nightwatcher hinted that Nightblood was in her control by offering it to Dalinar. She may have even nudged Nale to give the thing to Szeth; the only tool that could kill a god given into the hands of someone that Mr. T could manipulate into using it. So she "pruned" Rayse. Who the Shard went to was probably a secondary consideration. Her Intent wouldn't allow her to scheme a way to splinter Odium, so killing its Vessel would be her only play. Creating Connections to the new Vessels allows her to play some part in their development. I can see her being set up as a surprise secondary antagonist in Book 5. However, she has set up Connections to at least two of our protagonists. One has a book in the second 5 and the other is carrying Honor. And any actions she undertakes toward being an antagonist would be tempered by her need to create growth, so it would be difficult for Brandon to make her a true "bad guy". Book 4 heavily prepared for bringing humans and singers together. THAT is probably Cultivation's primary plan.

Quick thought: Rayse didn't want to pick up any more Shards for fear of changing his Intent. It turns out his Intent wasn't exactly right for him and what he wanted to do. The Shard knew it. We find out that the Rhythm of War is the interplay between Honor and Odium. Hate and Oaths playing off each other toward stalemate and infinite escalation. Mr. T knows this interplay. What if TOdium decides that picking up the remnants of Honor are exactly what needs to happen? Odium was looking for a champion in Dalinar and Kaladin (maybe others). What if TOdium sees the flaw in this and makes it his goal to reform Honor and pick it up for himself?

I'm sure they know about Returned. Returned are cognitive shadows, but they have a piece of Endowment grafted on them (Divine Breath). The problem with Kelek or Thaidakar leaving is that they have to stay close to the location of the Shard that created them. Kelek can't leave Roshar or the power of Honor will stay behind and he'll disappear. Zahel and all Returned carry around that power with them. Could this help others? I guess they could ask their respective Shards for a Divine Breath equivalent.

This statement tickles me for some reason. "This is surprising considering the Yolish were considered perfect aside from the fact that they KILLED GOD, BROKE IT INTO 16 PIECES, AND STOLE THE PIECES."

Adding a tiny bit of pressure to the center of a rock can cause a very large explosion depending on the makeup of the rock. I have a feeling the "mistakes" she refers to are these types of mistakes. Practicers of microkinesis might end up with more power than sense, creating explosions in rock where they just wanted to shape something; where Stoneshapers are given a bit more control by virtue of the stone having a better understanding of the surgebinder's Intent and helping the change along.

Lightweaving on Roshar is similar to Lightweaving as practiced by Hoid (from Yolen). Roshar has a very primal (per the Cosmere) magic system with direct Investiture (Stormlight), direct Connection (spren) and controlled Intent (rules binding its use through Oaths and limiting its potential). If Yolen had direct access to Investiture, it might have had similar "surgebindings". This little snippet is mainly there to provide a tiny view of what might be coming in Dragonsteel, which now looks to have similar "surges" as Roshar with less controls.

A quick look says that black smoke is simply corrupted Investiture's Physical manifestation. The Well had black smoke because it was Preservation's Perpendicularity used as Ruin's prison for several millennia. Ruin managed to corrupt some of that power over time.

The Rhythm of War. The more Odium embraced his Intent, the more he locked himself into battle with Tanavast embracing his Intent. To break out of the cycle, Odium had to temporarily break from his Intent. Tanavast managed to infuse enough Honor into his preparations for death (with some help from Cultivation) to foil this plan (climaxed by the "WE KILLED YOU" scene). This left Odium with the choice to continue his plans or go back to his Intent. In continuing his plans, he lost control of his Shard. Odium's prison isn't just the Oathpact. It's also a cycle of Hate and Honor. He has to meet Honor with Hatred to fulfill his Intent. However, that Hatred is met with more Honor. And "Honor isn't dead as long as it lives in the hearts of men!"

Interesting. Honor's power shows blue in the eyes. Odium's power seems to be yellow, unless it's being used to corrupt something. Corrupted Investiture appears red. Sja Anat corrupts Honor-Cultivation spren and they end up red. Fused are corrupted Singers, who are probably naturally closer to Honor-Cultivations. So red eyes. With what we're learning about Shard-light, this fits in pretty well. A pure Shard-light (Stormlight being the pure free Investiture of Honor, for example) will appear as the pure color of that Shard. Odium's is yellow. Light that is being smothered/corrupted by the Light of another Shard creates a red color. Black "light" (like the smoke from Nightblood) must be "unattached" Investiture (no Shard's Intent) Back to Kaladin: if he is giving up on his Oaths slowly, he leaves an opening for Odium to insert himself. His internal battle becomes between his Oaths and letting go completely (Moash-style). This battle is seen in the yellow (Odium Light) and red (Odium corrupting the Honor Light that's fighting). This would be great to look out for in other characters and situations in the future.