CJ Feboris

I've been reading this thread and all I could think of was this quote. The wicked thing of eminence seems to be a comingling of powers that should have been left alone. I don't remember the name of the knight in the epigraph that was supposed to have been doing naughty things, but I think it is another one from the in world words of radiance. I really like the theory of of lightweavers or truthwatchers being the group who performed the subterfuge, I think the skybreakers are a distraction/red herring to keep us off the right path. Brandon never makes something so important straightforward.

Shallan uses the same construct when imitating horneater. I think it is a language commonality, i.e. the pronoun in horneater is consistently gendered and therefore when it is translated by Rock (and ostensibly others) it is "him."

I'm still not so sure about the forgiveness issue. Syl hasn't given much air time to forgiveness, she has mentioned, several times the fact that Kaladin better not lie. It seems that when Kaladin "failed" to uphold this lack or protection of others she "died." She doesn't seem to have a problem with him disliking people, he just has to protect them anyway (not the same as forgiveness). Just my thoughts.

The only problem here is that Syl seems to have a real problem with moral failures, so it would have to be failures to accomplish a task. I find it more likely that the oaths will be leadership related. I do like the idea of them happening early on in the book though. I sure hope we don't have to suffer through a Kaladin self -loathing again, that would be monotonous.

I think you are both right!

There was a lot of discussion about this topic a year or so back, with the two primary contenders being the "shareplate is spren" and "shardplate is stormlight." I was originally on the side of the spren because of Kaladin's flight when the windspren were attracted to fall through the sky. I think the primary problem with this theory is the lack of screaming with the shardplate (as indicated by the fight in the arena). Your argument definitely swayed me toward the light theory because I never viewed it as the perfect stormlight container, this makes a lot of sense. I really like this twist on it. EDIT: Here is the link to an older version of this discussion.

I've been a fan of the Spren cousin theory for a long time, but the original post here seriously makes me reconsider my position. I like the idea of a Stormlight storage container because that is essentially what was happening during the fight in the area when Kaladin grabbed the shardplate helm. He fed the container but was not himself a perfect enough version of a knight to use it to its potential. I'm so excited about this new book that I feel like a schoolboy, I suspect that we can finally lay this discussion to rest after November. CJ

So is Kenton out of the picture? Has he been seen since White Sand?

Since this has turned into a worldhopper hunt, have we seen Khriss on Rosahr. She was with Nazh in the Secret History, but I have not noticed her in Roshar, but she is a really awesome character and would enjoy finding her in Roshar (as well as Kenton, but I'm not even sure if he is a worldhopper).

Shouldn't Nale be going to Shinovar with Szeth? Is he on the way there? BS said there were problems with the canon but, this is such a major plot point that I doubt it will change.

I think they might be the same. To ease the pain of loss, the nightwatcher erased Dalinar's memory.

There are some fair points in this post, but what I think Dalinar will have on his side is the desolation. With the everstorm, the parshmen will begin to change when invested, this will give undeniable credibility to Dalinar and the KR.

I think this WoB just says he doesn't know how to do it not that it is impossible.

If we are talking POV it is the Lopen who will certainly stick someone to a wall

The only problem with this is that by the point of these visions, yalb and the crew would have been adrift for a month or so. This seems rather too long, I don't claim to know the timing but I suspect the truth that BS alludes to here is more complex than we see at first blush.

What I find most interesting about the diagram is that his 'intellect' has a lot more information than can be known just from intuition. Intellect take data and posits hypotheses from that data. Mr T. Is getting new data as far as I can tell, he is being fed understanding from a more knowledgeable source (i.e. A Shard) I find it highly likely that he is being influenced by odium because his method of unification is something so Odium-esque (if you destroy all but one then the remaining are supremely unified).

Yes I agree, these are interesting, but why these? The first makes total sense, but seeing Shallash seems odd and there is probably something quite important here. The herald of beauty who IIRC is the Lightweaver patron, being drawn by the first Lightweaver in millennia. Any thoughts as to why?

IIRC the original spren were part of the splintering of Adonalsium, the increase in the spren in Roshar is from Honor, but why do we have a reduced spren presence in Shinovar?

@maxal, I totally agree with you. I think this would be a terrible plot twist to bring Relis as the one to revive a Shardblade, but I still am and continue to become increasingly more convinced that it will require the use of another Knight who has a live spren. The next book will be very interesting because at the end of WoR we have acknowledgement from Dalinar to Renarin that he bonded the blade despite the screaming and the incredible fortitude that took. So whoever it is that touches the Blade will have to have a great deal of respect for the person bonded to a "dead" spren. This would work well with Shalan and Adolin . . . could be and interesting storyline. But SL3 is at 52% of the first draft today so I've got to find some other hobbies.

Sorry wasn't trying to say that you had not said they didn't have to reswear the oaths, I was just reaffirming...

So my point was that possibly the KR has to assist the non-KR in reviving the Shardblade into spren form. It appears that Kaladin did this when he was fighting Relis through his touch on the blade. It appears that Relis continues to hear the spren after he has dropped the blade because he continues to talk to himself after dropping the blade, this seems to indicate that the bond is somewhat efficacious even in it deadened form. But Kaladin apparently cannot hear what the spren is saying in the dead sword, but Relis can, except that it sounds like Syl. The bonding to the blade, I suspect, must do something between the spren and the Shardbearer.

I'm not sure this was a revival, but rather since Kaladin was able to hear the screaming in the "last clap" it was then transmitted to the other shardbearer. Of course it did seem personal and the things that he was saying indicated that the spren was screaming directly at him and not just randomly. So maybe there is something to the revival through a current KR.

I am still a bit more in the sister-spren camp for Shareplate, but I really like this theory. I would explain why and how they can dismiss the plate so easily. I think there is some better storage of Stormlight in the later oaths as well. Stormlight seems to "work better some how" for Kaladin as he progresses, I think if they have to carry around tons of gemstones all the time, this might be cumbersome and dangerous in a fight, maybe the stormlight can be stored in the plate...

Regarding the original post, I think Step 3 is off. I don't think we can change the way a Spren is bonded. Remember they are forcibly bonded to the carrier of the blade in the first place (which is probably the reason for the screaming), but I think it has to be one of two possible options: 1) They have to break the bond with the blade when it awakens and allow the spren to choose them 2) They have to awaken the blade to a spren and have that spren accept the bond through the oaths I don't think we can get around the oaths despite the fact that the spren were trapped by broken oaths.

I'm with both of you in the hopes that Adolin becomes an Edgedancer and I agree with maxal above. As a *tangent* to this thread, it brings up something that I've been thinking about a lot lately and that is from the epigraph win WoR: So there is one order that did not give up their oaths, one order that was disparaged by the others, and they did not like the epithet "Dustbringers." So are they the ones that are still around? I think the Skybreakers are setup to appear to be the ones that have not abandoned their oaths, they are the red herring, but I think the order left behind, who might just be the Shin, are the Dustbringers. Not sure if there is other evidence to support this but it would make sense why they revere the stone...sorry for the tangent, but it fit so well here. CJ