Tamriel Wolfsbaine

I would agree that a shardbearer wins an arm wrestling contest against a pewter arm and I would say that against Feruchemical pewter all beefed out the shardplate wearer definately has higher flexibility and mobility. But we aren't just talking about allomancy and feruchemy. We are talking beefed up near shardic levels of power from a full born compounding. You could store allomantic pewter strength and then compound that allowing access to so much more strength than feruchemy or allomancy give on their own. You can nicrosil compound up the potency of your allomancy to the point of seeing and being able to push on specs of metal in rock and inside of people. How much more potent would A pewter be in that case as well? Shardplate is incredibly OP. But compounding to be a near shard is far more broken than shardplate. I think a fullborn vs a surgebinder with all surges and living plate / blade would honestly come down to both jousting a bit back and forth initiating what should be 1 hit kills but get instantly healed back. Once they realize that it is hopeless they will likely end with each attempting to leech or drain the other of their investiture. In fact the first one to realize that draining the others investiture is the best plan is probably going to end up being the winner of this contest. You could allow a surgebinder to stab you right through the spine with their shardblade so long as you reach out and durilumin boost some chromium... you still have gold to heal and your metalminds to end the knight. Likewise the knight could grab hold of the fullborn holding their heart and open a connection between them and the ground to drain them of all their investiture while regrowing a new heart as quickly as the fullborn can rip out the old one. You have to get a 1 shot, hold a 1 shot (aluminum embedded in nervous system for the duration of leeching) to really end this fight and kill one another. And a God King could send an army of invested stone soldiers wearing full aluminum armor and each carrying shard-like-blades against both of them then go and hide and cry because he is the only stupid broken character without instant one-shot countering healing capabilities. Poor Nalthis.

No doubt shard bearers are lazy and we don't see full what they can do. As for all of your other explanations I feel like that is just more evidence that there was some shard involvement. How much more bonded was Kaladin to Syl when arrows were missing him on bridge runs at the beginning of the book than Dalinar was to the storm father while being given all of his visions. I don't see a ton of evidence that supernatural random acts don't happen for characters with bonds even before the first oath is spoken.

If you treated a pewtermind like a tin mind and only stored allomantic strength in one and regular strength in another than wouldn't you be able to compound just the allomantic strength without the need to increase mass while tapping? Even if warform parshendi had beat on plate many times did it add up to more than the chasmfiend. Also the foot race at the beginning of the way of kings... how deep are the chasms when Dalinar fears slipping and falling... was his fear strictly because he was going to lose the race? Or was it the idea that a fall from that height would still scramble him up even in his plate? I have certainly grabbed around a box and lifted it without having my hands underneath it. I have grabbed the sides of a dresser and lifted it without being directly underneath it. I can't accept his ability to lift the chasmfiend leg as the proof that he was directly underneath its leg. Dalinar lifting the leg was also done and written from his perspective. Who is to say he didn't breath in any stormlight at all or get assistance from the stormfather? Brandon is very consistent when it comes to feeding us information as the characters learn about it. Kaladin didn't believe that he was using stormlight until it was shown directly to him. Vin had no idea what allomancy was and just used her "luck" until she was told otherwise. Something could have happened in the background there that we won't know for books and books to come. Think about Spook getting his spike in HoA. That was only accomplished because the shard was watching and decided to wave his hand. I think there is far more evidence that some fancy hand waving explains catching and lifting a chasmfiends leg than it being a normal everyday part of plate wearing... everyone who watched it was in awe and shocked. He could have splashed some adhesion on the sides of the leg without even knowing it and that could explain why he didn't have to be under it. The scenes are always written based on the participants knowledge, and judging by Adolins reaction, the knowledge in that moment and scene was that Dalinar did the impossible. Heck I think even Dalinar was shocked by what happened in that moment.

I always pictured this as a pseudo last clap than shoving his arm in direct line of the attack to stop it. He could have grabbed the leg and still had time and space to slow down the blow. Like an egg catch or an egg drop. So long as that egg isn't hitting so directly that it pops it can survive stories worth of a drop. The catch was likely more closely relatable to an egg drop vs a persons fist connecting at the speed of sound or faster against a stationary object.

I assume something funky was going on with Dalinar in that moment as we see far more instances. Plus as we see with the last clap holding a thing is different from outright resisting a thing. The strength in plate may allow for it catching and holding a chasmfiend briefly but if Dalinar hadn't caught it there is no doubt it would have punched right through the shard plate. If hammers swung by nonshardbearers can crack plate overtime why wouldn't a fullborn tapping iron and steel and a duralumin charged pewter hit cripple plate? Side question: If a pewter compounder stores allomantic strength could it not be compounded and tapped to give ludicrous strength minus the drawback of the growing mass typical of Feruchemical pewter? If steelsight can be stored or bronze sensing can be stored why then would Allomantic pewter strength be the rulebreaker?

I think a bit of gold would be well worth the use if you can punch straight through a set of plate and pull out your enemies still beating heart. Vins duralumin empowered headbutt exploded the guys head and she didn't even have a headache thanks to pewter giving her so much durability. A shard hammer weighs nothing and moves at the speed of a snail compared to a compounding fullborn. His fist could move nearly the speed of sound. According to Brandon it is possible to move so fast that you get burnt up from the friction of air on you. With compounding gold showing us miles growing back his legs as he lands from jumping off a building... or repairing his face/brain as he gets shot multiple times a full born would absolutely shrug off any damage done to their body moving at or faster than sound while weighing more than a building. And iron also protects the user from the increased weight. Duralumin fueled pewter would also turn the compounders bones into nearly indestructible weapons anyway. Give the compounder access to some brass knuckles to lower the space of impact further multiplying the potency of a super charged punch to a piece of shard plate.... Catastrophic for everyone who isn't the full born. The kinetic energy and momentum of something like that is just far too high for even plate to stop.

Fullborn have access to both chromium and bendalloy. They could lay down both bubbles and appear as though they are moving normally. As any radiant or number of radiant squires try to get close they would move through chromium and get hit with that horrible nausea and vertigo. Meanwhile as they are fighting that horrible sick feeling they are basically standing still just outside of the bendalloy bubble allowing the fullborn to fully utilize all of their other powers. Its still over kill to need anything like that. A full born could crank up their body heat so high and become so heavy and move their hand so fast with the added durability of pewter that they could melt/punch right through plate and shove their hand into the knights chest cavity and then even further crank up their heat BBQing the radiants insides. All the stormlight in a storm won't save a radiant from having nuclear levels of heat waving constantly through their vitals BBQing them in side of their shard plate... what would heat like that do to the spren used to make up the plate? Meanwhile.... I do think there are surges that could deal with the fullborn... The obvious ones are soul casting, adhesion and cohesion. The latter two surges would be making the terrain impossible to move through. I don't think steel feruchemy would aid if the fullborn touches the ground even once and gets stuck their. They might be able to pry themselves off eventually but by then the radiant should have been able to have the earth itself swallow the fullborn up, and then while the fullborn helplessly is stuck their and held in place the radiant can enter shadesmar and soulcast the fullborn and all of their metalminds into dust. That said a fullborn with a chunk of metal could ramp up their weight and become such a massive anchor that they could easily send a radiant flying even without that radiant armor being viable for steel or iron allomancy. The fullborns ultimate trump cards have to be compounded heat and weight. Both of which could theoretically end all of Roshar. If you used all of your weight or heat through some duralumin fueled burning of metalminds you could become the largest nuke ever seen or even a very temporary blackhole for Roshar. Planetary levels of destruction are possible for fullborns... granted the knight could just go to the cognitive to survive the suicide bombing of the fullborn. Surely that level of destruction is beyond a fullborns ability to heal through even with gold compounding.

If future sight interferes with futuresight was the winner of an atium atium battle already determined before the players ever started burning their atium? If a vision of the future gained from future sight ever doesn't come true then was it future sight or a lie to the person from the start predetermined to be a lie the minute they saw the vision that turned out to be a lie?

Every time I think of future sight I think of the show "Thats so Raven" where every episode the very act of trying to avoid the future is what leads to the future. If Raven never saw the future 99% of those events and things she saw would never have happened. It was in fact her working so hard to avoid them that made them happen. I hope future sight doesn't end up just being foreshadowing that we see what is going to happen but it is the characters efforts to avoid it that ultimately brings it to pass. Which I guess could be the end game for some shards. Show a possible future where they understand that you will go down a path to lead to it in an effort to avoid it. I have always believed omnipotence doesn't necessarily mean someone can see the exact event that is going to happen but that they see all of the potential endings and each turn that is taken narrows down the potential endings. Thus being able to see all of the possible destinations and the paths leading to them allows you to know all. Future sight could well be a show of 1 possible ending and that act of seeing it ends up being what nudges you down the set of pathways leading to it. Seeing a couple seconds into the future make it far more narrow and far more likely to be an accurate future as opposed to far out sightings of the future requiring more manipulation to get you on that path. Granted seeing a potential ending is a massive manipulation towards the path that a shard would want you to take.

I am sure this has been asked before but I am trying to reason it out in my head. What would happen to a person who stored health into a gold mind if they had access to investiture that healed them? I doubt we would see a Miles hundred lives replica but I figure you could store far more than a normal gold ferring. If you had the 5th heightening making you pretty well immune to illness would you instead suffer injury? Or would storing your health surpass that benefit and you would simply get sick as normal? Would you be storing far more health before you feel the effects of storing than a normal gold ferring? If you found yourself as a squire with access to stormlight would the stormlight simply heal you as you stored until the stormlight ran out? I do imagine that storing past your naturally safe levels could end up pretty badly if something were to happen to the investiture that you use to fuel faster filling.

I would give up 1000lbs worth of aluminum if I could go to era 2 with 2000 biochromatic breaths.

I love warbreaker and it is still my favorite book... I am halfway through WoR and was thinking about how an awakener would do against a shardbarer. Not the blade itself but the plate.... I do believe that awakened cloth could resist a shardblade but if the blade itself was sharp enough it would pretty easily pass through any rope or ribbon sent its way without needing to rely on magical properties... My real question is how would awakened objects like we see in Warbreaker fare against a 1400lb suit of shard plate? Would the ribbons and rope care about the added weight or would they perform their duties without issues? I guess this could be chopped up to how well awakened cloth and ropes handle the weight of objects. We saw them toss humans with little to no effort and even saw a suit animated using the now dead body inside of it as a bit of a meat shield. But where does that reach its limits? If I have some rope/ribbon that does well up to 1000lbs would the added investiture of breaths allow that same material to hold strong against a heavier load? When Vivenna tells the banner to pick her up over the wall would that same banner that did its job effortlessly have issues if she had been in a 1400lb suit of shardplate? Asking strictly because in my brain I love awakening but am a bit grossed out by the whole lifeless army idea and want to see the limits of the non necromancerish side of awakening in a potential duel. I think if the invested material were to be able to contain a shardbarer a wrap of the arms and legs could be a magnificent counter. Please leave any other ideas for fighting shardplate in here. I know the obvious one is build an army of lifeless and invest some stone around them (as invested stone would be difficult even for a shardblade to get through)... but the draw of just fighting with random items is too much dang fun.

Does an awakened rope or cloth keep its natural tensile strength, or does awakening and infusing cloth with breath make it stronger? If I tried to grab an iron ferring with awakened wrappings would the material that the wrappings were made from effect how much weight that ferring would have to use to cause my own weapons to tear themselves apart? And finally does awakening and infusing cloth give it investiture resistance? I know shardblades vs aluminum just puts the shardblade against aluminum like a normal sword would have hit it.... so awakened cloth would likely just be cut right through and then the blade would fuzz later. But would awakened materials like wood or stone or metal resist a shardblade? Would those breaths disappear as it gets hit or would you be able to collect the breaths from the pieces later on if you survived? Also what happens if you awakened a stick? We know that nightblood was a normal sword before awakening. If you were to awaken a stick or wooden dueling cane to "break things" could you end up with something that could cause more damage for less impact perhaps?

So a kandra can even replicate the DNA profile in a tissue sample to use as a viable donor for a subject. How does that translate to the cognitive realm though. Is a soulcaster seeing the cognitive self of a thing / person? Does a kandras transformation only go as deep as even DNA. Physical vs cognitive vs spiritual realm messiness here. I really want the kandra to be protected from soulcasting but I don't know if even perfectly replicating down to the very cell of a target would be enough to stop their cognitive self from being seen... Would a kandras disguise cross over into shadesmar or would a kandra revert to the blob on the other side? A side note... I have pictured kandra with aluminum true bodies and I guess they could even hold a skin deep layer of aluminum perhaps around the vast majority of their body as well to protect themselves. If a kandra kept their brain in their leg and a layer of aluminum surrounding it what would happen to themselves anyway? Kandra break a lot of rules. Aluminum has some hidden rules and it appears soulcasting has an entire new set of rules for itself anyways.

When faced with someone who really doesn't want to give over their breath what tools do you all think would work best for getting it? In the world we see torture used an awful lot to convince someone to give over their breath. If you were to take a single tool from another system to help you which do you think would have more of a benefit? Emotional allomancy or connection (feruchemical or as a bondsmith although I think feruchemical duralumin would be much easier to get to Nalthis). I guess illusion magic or shape-shifting could help as well. If there are other options I would definately be open to hearing them.

Both are good points. I also have to accept that innate investiture may be higher on Nalthis but we can't even start to know how much more investiture exists in a person actively using a power. Burning metal could be thousands of times more concentrated investiture than a single breath. I assume there comes a point where someone with a higher heightening will be able to pierce a coppercloud. The God King is at least 50,000x more invested than an average nalthian who is already more invested than an average scadrialian. I imagine that there is a bit of a line in the sand where the average coppercloud can't mask a persons lifesense. I think of a tineye looking through the mists. Just because the mist is there doesn't mean that the structures hidden inside of them aren't there. Granted it also would partially depend on the subject you are looking for. A tineye would be able to pick up a torch easier than a candle through the mists, however the strength of said tineye would also make a difference. Flaring vs a slow burn vs duralumin or even an older generation vs lerasium levels would all effect how dim of a light a tineye would be able to see and how far into the mists they could see it. A person at a far higher heightening should be able to sense through the smoke more I would imagine regardless of the brightness of them who they are sensing. Drabs do make this a more difficult question to figure out though too... as it seems no matter how many breaths a person has a drab is still devoid of enough innate investiture to be picked up at all.

We see the ability to pierce copperclouds with enough strength as a seeker (whether through aid of hemalurgy or not). How many breaths do you think an awakener and at what heightening do you suppose life sense can overcome a coppercloud? If Vin was capable of doing it with a tiny earing spike how much more do you think it would take to let lifesense through? If at the 5th heightening you have "perfect lifesense" and every heightening past that is nearly double the amount of breaths to reach... or double the investiture to achieve the next heightening where do you think life sense would be fueled powerfully enough to piece a coppercloud? I imagine if not by the 6th heightening for sure by the 7th a coppercloud would offer very little in the way of blocking lifesense but I am open to altering opinions and theories why not.

I believe that copperminds will still fade over time as you use them. So it could easily be said that nicrosil feruchemy will fade over time but that it is a full transferal right? When storing a memory do you not lose access to that memory without the metalmind? Does a feruchemist who studies and stores languages require their metalmind to continue speaking the language or do they retain all of their knowledge of the language that they gained while actively storing their learnings? Do they lose the knowledge of a word once it is used once or is it a gradual decay that spans many many uses in the future or does it stay constant in the metalmind but while not tapping it is not a knowledge you possess? I feel like this WoB may give us more of a look into how nicrosil works. We still don't know if the bands nicrosil was running out or simply all of the other stored metals. Back to hemalurgy if it works like a memory then wouldn't you be left with a blank and empty spike once you have stored the ability that said spike held?

I thought there was a WoB out now that said nicrosil is more like copper feruchemy where you take the thing and put it in there and then lose that power. You aren't storing it for the temporary use like you do other metals. You are storing the ability itself and then tapping into the ability itself. Hence the idea that nicrosil compounding may not be as busted as once thought.

What happens to a spike if a power is stored into a nicrosil mind? Could someone with access to bunches of healing and F Nicrosil get their hands on a single atium spike then go on a rampage spiking out a power from another person only to store it and then use the same spike to steal another power and so on? What about with biochromatic breath? I had this idea of a soul bearer finding themselves on Nalthis with a single spike taking breath from those who took breath(though would it be nicrosil spike or atium spike to steal breath??). Basically Dexter Morgan of Nalthis baiting horrible people into trying to take your breath only to spike um and store their breath away into a nicrosil mind and then have a nice fresh spike to do it again.

Life sense is sensing a persons innate investiture right? Drabs are unique in that they have even less than a normal human. We know this due to that drabs can't be sensed at all while normal humans can. When it talks about perfect life sense what does that mean though? In my mind I picture it like Marsh and Vin level seeking where they can pinpoint specific metals only you can sense people along with their level of innate investiture? Like beacons of light all around you perhaps? While someone with many more breaths would be a brighter beacon than one with less breaths? Could you see others using investiture at a time?? Would a mistborn be brighter than a misting or would a radiant filled with stormlight be brighter than a radiant with no stormlight inhaled? Would you sense a feruchemist with filled metalminds easier than one with no metalminds? Is it the potential for power that you sense or the power itself? Also would animals be enough of a living and invested being to trigger lifesense? I am curious of the benefits to lifesense vs being a seeker in allomancy. What would be more beneficial of the 2?

This makes much more sense. Thanks.

I must have mistakenly thought the returned gaining the 5th heightening was why they were immortal minus their need for a breath each week. So being returned brings with it all of the benefits of the 5th heightening without needing to have the other 4 heightening actitive via suppressing your breath. I figured if you were suppressing your divine breath you wouldn't have gained the benefits of a higher heightening while simultaneously losing all the benefits of the lower 4. But if being returned makes you unaging as a separate thing from the heightening itself then that makes more sense... I guess my question would then be why do they word it as gaining the benefits of the first 5 heightenings instead of it being the first 4 with immortality (assuming you get your breath each week)?

I know it says tension is resisted by investiture. Would there be anyway for the surge of tension to work with awakening? Difficulty wise how hard would it be to make a cloak told to protect yourself to become riged? Likewise. Would a cloak that was made riged require more breaths to accept commands or would it fail to be able to function without the fabrics ability to flow in a fluid manner and take a more humanoid and alive shape? Second question would have to be if you could combine awakening with any surges which ones would you choose and why?

Alright. So now that I am done and through Warbreaker I have some further questions and ideas. For someone returned, like Vasher, who is capable of suppressing his divine breath does he actually get treated fully as a drab? When we see him in the prison at the beginning was his lifesense and aura recognition all traded out for his ability to suppress his breath? Or can he straight up hide the divine breath and keep the benefit of the first 5 heightenings? I guess if it were possible to keep the benefits of the heightening while suppressing breath then Denth should have been able to sense both Vivenna and Vasher when Vasher kidnapped her right? That also leaves me confused by my question about the ageless thing... if suppressing your breath eliminates your other benefits how have Denth and Vasher not died of old age yet? Also is there anything said about the upper limits of the strength of awakened objects? Does it come down to how much the rope would naturally hold until it breaks or does the breath add strength to a material. For instance if a sheet were to wrap someone up who didn't have a knife. Would the persons only hope of escape be to gain the strength to rip the fabric itself or could they break the hold of the material without destroying it?