Tamriel Wolfsbaine

I have also thought about copper and its interaction with other metals and senses. Bronze and copper both in a seeker booth... if it is like a cloud of fog it makes sense that a low burning coppercloud could allow for a seeker standing next to them to listen to everything that the cloud isn't covering. Perhaps copper is stronger the closer it is to the allomancer and weaker as it stretches. Then if you have a seeker flaring or if bronze by virtue has a slightly larger range.... they can seek beyond where the copper ends hiding them and allowing them to seek outside the 10 yard radius or whatever. If... that is how it works would lifesense also be able to push out beyond the copper clouds AOE? Like you know a person is coming but the closer they get to your copper allomancer the fainter their lifesense is until it disappears? *I know that the MAG is not cannon and I don't want this use of it to take away from legitimate discussion on the use of copper and its interaction with other metals.* In the MAG copper is smaller radius than bronze. Both can increase radius through stunts. Bronze can always detect allomancy outside of the coppercloud but must roll inside of it. (At least that is how I read it.) In alloy of law it introduces a coppercloud stunt that allows you to have the effect only be on yourself still hinting that possibly if you had bronze also via hemalurgy or whatever you could effect and seek while hiding just yourself. I cannot for the life of me remember a time Vin would seek while burning copper though. Maybe it happened maybe it didn't.

Would a coppercloud be able to hide a biochromatic aura or simply dim it? Vin and Marsh (and other powerful seekers) could faintly hear even when in copperclouds. So where is the line drawn for what a coppercloud can and cannot do? Could copperclouds block lifesense? I believe I saw a WoB once that said it could. (When you reach perfect lifesense at the 4th heightening would it pierce a coppercloud? Or could you gain stronger lifesense even than that as you keep climbing the ladder?) Would copper hide biochromatic aura from a person? Would it hide it from objects that are awakened? Would it all just be a breath threshold where it can hide an aura of X heightening and lower / object awakened with x breaths or lower? Simply dampening the amount of aura that shows? Maybe a 5th heightening awakener appears as a 1st or 2nd instead? Or just that you have to have more breaths to recognize auras inside of a coppercloud? Copper does appear to have different power levels as it can be flared and it can be slowly burnt so I assume the strength of a cloud is not an all or nothing thing. More like a thick fog. Bright enough light will eventually be seen...

Thanks for all this.

Was Sazed always 7 feet tall? If pewter doesn't increase skeletal structure then there should be no height change at all (maybe you could argue a couple inches for stretching and straightening up the spine. That's really it though. Hence more whackiness in the physical metals.

I started giving the benefits of brute more of a thought this morning and it hit me... if Sazed were a 12 foot tall hulking rage monster he probably was pushing 1400+ lbs in that battle anyways. So really there is no true advantage to iron vs pewter as pewter can weight 10x their weight plus have 3-4x longer reach plus have all the needed muscle to move it. The laws of conservation of momentum would still apply for them as well allowing for literally everything that iron does... even the benefit of stopping your fall before it becomes lethal through increasing size before landing. This is part of why I would hope iron doesn't lose as much mobility but I can definately say my mind has been changed to see pewter as less useless.

Thanks for those WoB. Edit: This would still offer a potentially easier avenue to have a weaponized gold ferring handout. It may not be shareable between all but you could have a crew or team of people all able to share metalminds without the need of playing with identity if they all were spiked with similar spirit web. Would the spirit web eventually get to jacked up even for gold compounding to heal through the spiking process? Or could Miles keep healing through and making new spikes so long as he had the gold to do it?

If Miles had been spiked and healed through it then spiked and healed through it again, when both of those spikes are given to 2 random people do all 3 now share enough of a spirit web to trade and use eachothers gold metalminds?

I think I am at a RAFO point myself. A lot of what we see with iron is weird weird and almost all of it being tapped is in the context of either already being mostly anchored or falling anyways. What we do have are things like this: So how much would iron do it? Bleeder didn't run into walls and was able to function with normal thought processes or she would not have had time to react to anything. Unless iron compensates significantly worse than other metals. I'm not saying it makes you stronger or faster. If you retain even enough to "actually use it" then why wouldn't you be able to move in a boxing match? Then again we have this also: This one muddies up my brain more because there isn't much of a follow up past that. Bottom line iron breaks all sorts of rules. We can't really know until we see it on screen. Sadly I don't know that we will ever see Wax run at something while heavy though. It is easy to be on opposing ends of this one. Pewter definately has a reach advantage and i believe Sazed removed a head with a hit while loaded up on pewter. Dr. Ashby had a great presentation on momentum in relation to arrow penetration decades ago which still holds true... even slower a much heavier arrowhead will penetrate a hide better due to the momentum. Conservation of momentum says that an iron ferring could sit on the ground at 10000 lbs and jump storing back to normal weight as soon as they leave the ground and turn themselves into a pseudo rocket according to what we do see on screen. If an iron user were to tap weight and then swing a fist and then store weight it would speed up his punch as well. You could get something wild going starting very heavy and then storing weight as your punch is flying. Even if I concede that your mobility is diminished when tapping weight (which the WoBs and writings are muddy on) a skimmer boxer would still be dangerous to the brute.

Sazed "dropping" fists is a hard picture to see... if he is normal sized and still fighting hulking koloss where is he dropping fists onto? We don't see much application for running and moving while tapping except for knowing that momentum is conserved. Wax slows down as he gets heavier during movement. He speeds up while getting lighter... during movement. My issue with "feeling lighter on his feet" is that your strength doesn't grow proportionality as you get heavier. If you are 200 lbs and can squat 400lbs and walk around normally without your legs buckling then why wouldn't a 2000lb you be able to squat 4000lbs? You can still squat without breaking your legs. It is because iron gets real messy in its attempt to impact the world around it. Spiritually your body is viewed the same and makes up the difference so that you don't kill yourself tapping weight. Physically your body impacts the world around it as if it weighed whatever the iron is making it weigh. Wax crashes through a floor without crushing his own lungs. I think the characters are always speaking to what they see themselves doing. Sazed wasn't dropping his fists onto koloss feet to kill them. Wax had his entire conversation with Khriss and realized in that moment how what she was saying made sense. Thus anytime he was speaking about his iron feruchemy before vs after could have been totally different in how he explained it. Perhaps if Sazed had more experience as a boxer he would not have used the term "drop". Plus a rock hurts a lot worse when thrown than dropped and he has his arm length to gain speed and momentum. Obviously his body had to be propelling the throw. Edit: Sazed being the size of a koloss with pewter does change things up a bit. That is a massive reach advantage. But any strike the iron ferring lands is certainly going to be more damaging than a single strike from the pewter ferring. Attack the hands as iron ferring and that brute won't want to keep throwing hands your way.

It is all a momentum game. The skimmer moves the exact same as he normally would only he now weighs many times more when interacting with the world. Take a ping-pong ball and a golf ball both traveling at 100mph. Which one would you prefer be hit by. The brute has a physical limit where he won't be able to move his arm at all to keep up with the weight plus his surface area is going to increase as well which will soften the blow. Skimmer keeps that same surface area and moves as he normally does only he can increase his weight until he is empty losing zero mobility at all. Edit: I always found it interesting that pewter added mass and iron didn't.

Allomantic pewter is just too helpful in life... Feruchemical iron would be great for mobility as well. (A fantasy of just stepping off the edge of a cliff or building worry free).

Exactly this. The brute is going to also lose mobility the larger he gets. The skimmers power allows it to retain all of its physical abilities and mobility while allowing every part of its body to effect the world as if it were many times heavier. Boxers who wear loaded gloves don't have to "drop" their hands. And for the skimmer it will be as if throwing a normal punch even if when it hits the brute it has 2000 lbs worth of momentum behind it. It is all a momentum issue. The brute will never be able to put that kind of momentum behind a hit. I think the real question from me is what happens to the skimmers hand and arm? I would like to say they will be fine. Likewise what would happen to a kandra with an iron medallion and a metal truebody if they were to hit a person with that much weight? Would it bend their truebody?

Thank you both. I shall sleep better. Yes I assume more than just urithiru it would be a protection surrounding all of the oathgates to some degree as going down has similarly dangerous consequences as going up too fast. If they are all pressurized the same and have the space around them able to quickly compensate it is the best explanation to how shallans 4th truth wasn't "I singlehandedly won the war for Odium before it began."

Laying in bed pondering if shardplate can double as a space suit and it hit me just how dangerous the changing barometric pressures can be to a persons body. For the radiants with gravitation I can totally accept that stormlight used while flying can heal the HAPE that could be happening as they fly around changing altitude rapidly. What then hit me was how I used to have such an issue with Dr Strange going from sea level to the top of everest in the first movie. I never even thought of it for Words of Radiance. I guess we don't know the exact altitude of the shattered planes vs Urithiru but I thought I remember something in the beginning of oathbringer talking about Urithiru being high enough to be above the storms. Those who couldn't breath in stormlight who went through the portal probably should have died of massive air emboli or flash pulmonary edema. I know it is a book and fun to enjoy for the magic. I love it and love the magic but that was my half asleep thought for the night and I figured I would share.

In this case I wonder how well plate would protect the squishy bits. Its the barotrauma from the blast that is devastating from a grenade. Sure you might end up with chunks of metal in you but those surface wounds aren't all that is happening. Massive pneumothorax and busted ear drums... basically anything filled with air in your body gets rocked and hit even when there is no shrapnel hitting you directly. The concussive force is what is dangerous there. Then again we are talking about magical plate. Real world armor is protecting the squishy bits but the concussive force and barotrauma don't care about all the Kevlar you are wearing. But this is magic armor we are talking about so who knows. If the shardplate doesn't block the changes in airpressure then we are again faced with an option to force the radiant to burn some stormlight fixing themselves from the internal injuries that bypass simply beating on their surface until it breaks.

Exactly. That moment before you upchuck... the world starts spinning and your mouth is watering uncontrollably. Fight through that... just keep pace with the magical being who is trying to stick a dagger through whatever hole they can while the world around you is spinning. F gold can get rid of illness too I imagine. Does stormlight not work on anything but trauma? If it doesn't help in this situation it is even better for the mistborn. If it does get used to keep the radiant perfectly focused then it is a non chromium avenue of attacking the investiture levels directly from a safe distance given that cadmium bubbles are so much larger than bendalloy. The bendalloy is your safe net to set up retreats and change directions to set up the cadmium. I have posted it before but still like the mental image in a large scale army vs army fight where cadmium bubbles are set up in the front lines. You have a line of enemies cross the bubble and feel horrible on the other side. Meanwhile the 2nd line and back are all charging forward and suddenly come crashing into their friends who seemingly stop moving in an instant. Total train wreck for that army.

The vertigo and nausea caused by passing through a speed bubble would be disorienting at the least. The reason I ask if stormlight may be used (even a little bit) is just based on the scene in BoM when the party goes through Marasi's cadmium bubble and that jolt plus them all feeling sick and disoriented. I imagine if stormlight wouldn't be used to heal that then there is a very real opening made for the mistborn for that second or two where the radiant crosses into that bubble. Pulsing out cadmium bubbles plus a bendalloy bubble inside of it would allow time to appear to pass as normal from the outside as it does for the slider in the bendalloy while maintaining a space between the 2 bubbles that is slowed significantly for the mistborn to react and line up multiple coins / bullets to make sure the ones that are in the right line get an extra steel push as well. All the while the radiant has 2 bubbles worth of that gut wrenching disorientation through the bubbles. Stormlight could negate that sick feeling side effect and likely help the radiant get their bearings back much more quickly but it requires using up so stormlight which could then open up the strategy for mistborn of slamming the radiant with time bubble after time bubble. A battle of attrition to be sure. But I think the time manipulation is generally looked past in mistborn strength and I think the surprise of crossing through those bubbles is way way under appreciated. We saw with Vasher vs Denth the value of just a small moment of shock. That split second was worth throwing breaths away for Vasher. There is a difference between sudden immobilizing euphoria and feeling like the wind just got taken out of you or a wave of extreme nausea. But I believe a second is a second and when dealing with deadly arts a second could well be the difference between life and death.

I doubt it plate would protect the radiant from time bubbles. Neither the time dilation or the sick feeling of stepping through. My curiosity is here: Would the radiant instinctively burn through a portion of stormlight to overcome that. They obviously can tell a difference when their body isn't perfect and the stormlight wants to correct that. It would be interesting if the plate were to protect the radiant from the time dilation but the plate itself was stuck in the changing time. How horrifying to feel like the world is moving around you but you are practically paralyzed in your suit of magical armor.

In before shardplate negates all possible aoe effects from grenades. That said I love the cadmium example in that WOB. Using time bubbles as weapons themselves to jar the enemy is way underutilized.

Yes. The godking. My favorite of the magics. Sadly there is no shardblade healing in this kit that we know of and we have seen a simple dagger kill off a returned with little issue. But hulking aluminum monsters fighting for you and the ability to command a shield wall from these monsters is beyond epic. You are so invested you can't be soulcast. Even if aluminum encased bones would be impossible to use you can awaken the stone at that point and even the stone will be invested enough to resist a shardblade for a while... Plus ranged attacks that can strangle a person or crush them to death... I have asked a few times with no response how strong awakened ropes and cloth are... what does the biochromatic breath do to the tensile strength of the material you are awakening? We see awakened arm wraps toss humans around like rag dolls. Would shardplate weigh too much for this or does the investiture simply not recognize weight? Would it need to be a special cloth to toss a shardbearer? The godking is by far the most epic player next to TLR and if TLR didn't have access to steel I think godking even takes that fight. You want to kill me?? Survive my gauntlet of hulking awakened golems and ribbons worth of crushing arms.

The compounding we definately agree on. When I think of titrating a patient on medications or lifesupport you have to make smaller changes because large changes can be absolutely devastating to their systems. Likewise imagine compounding a ton of health you are storing massive amounts of it and still feel on top of the world. But how much are you truly storing? If it is more than what you need to stay alive and a leecher were to touch you wiping your compounding material while you were storing that much wouldn't it put you in a spot where you basically are committing suicide with the amount of storage going on? Compounding is definately dangerous in the moments that you are actively storing massive amounts of your attribute. I believe it is less dangerous when you are just drawing from it. I have no idea if there is a WOB on this but I have wondered if bleeder ever truly used F steel in the books or if she always has A steel but was burning steel metalminds that were charged and she had the identity to do so. Reasons I think this are mostly that her speed usage suggests a compounder but her spike totals make that difficult. She could have set up a way to drop the spikes or move her bindpoints to change I guess but in my brain for compounding I think the dangers are more in the storing huge amounts. Duralumin would give you a massive boost of attribute to store, but if you get caught storing 100x your health for a second too long past when that chunk of metal is gone you were burning you are gonna be at a deficit that leaves you 100x more dead than you were before. Duralumin fueled compounding is also dangerous for folks around you. Some of the metals if you were just burning a metalmind and you spiked it with duralumin could be devastating to the surrounding area no? If a human suddenly became a few million lbs I assume that could be a dangerous thing. I don't know that the bands had every single feruchemical power inside of them totally full or even at all. Marasie describes her tapping as her just pulling everything out of it she could. Interesting that she didn't break a hole in the floor or burn off all of her clothes or have a total identity crisis and think she was Kel. She didn't make everyone in the area want to worship her and she didn't turn into such a hulking monster that she couldn't move. She either didn't tap everything at once and knew exactly which metals she needed to access or the bands were not what we all seem to think they were.

Is that while actively wearing armor? Is armor actively working while hidden? Or is the armor not acting as armor while hidden but instead a free 100% uptime coppercloud for saying the words.

The "how can I make this radiant break their oaths and bond" trick.

I guess the issue is that other than "large caliber round" we dont know too much about these weapons. I hear the sterrion 36 and picture a .357 in my brain. A larger caliber than that I imagine as the .44. But there are much larger caliber rounds that could be made in a handgun that would require a thugs arms to shoot (I wont touch a 45-70 revolver with a 10 foot pole as I enjoy my wrists working but I am sure if I was a pewterarm I could shoot them all day long) plus on top of shooting a far larger round (nearly double the grain size from my .44 to my 45-70 rounds) you would also be able to steelpush as a mistborn. TLDR: If Wax with Vindication could break plate in 2 shots there is little doubt that pewterarms already shoot far larger rounds than Wax and with a steelpush in addition you have the word shardplate quickly become more pun-y.

So this says that the stormlight in the spheres would be virtually impossible to drain. I can see that. As for the spren themselves... no longer targeting stormlight or a radiant at all. How do you kill a spren? How do you damage a spren? (Please forgive me in this. I am only on chapter 20 of Oathbringer so a lot of what I go off of is forum and wiki info and WoB I have read). I had this post up about leechers and their own investiture. Leechers and their own investiture - Cosmere Discussion - 17th Shard, the Official Brandon Sanderson Fansite In one of the responses it talked about a spren being stabbed with a shardblade and not dying but reappearing elsewhere later. So I take it in my future readings I shall read about Kaladin attacking a spren. Why then is it futile to attack a spren in the form of living plate? It isnt a difference between innate vs a more physical investiture because biochomatic breath can be leeched away just as stormlight can. Metals are only a key to the investiture being used so the fact that it burns the metals even when not actively being used says it works on a different principle than duralumin too in that chromium knows what has that potential for investiture usage as well no? So why cant it just straight up drain a spren? And if it can drain a spren what would happen to that spren? Would it turn the living plate into dead plate if only temporary? Would that spren try to resist and heal itself via taking the stormlight from the spheres under it? Or is the only way to kill and hurt a spren by bashing it with weapons? Kind of weird that chromium cant hurt a spren since all dead shards came from the simple act of abandoning oaths. Breaking a promise is more dangerous to spren than a leecher draining all of the investiture that makes them... them?