DoctaDajman

Not to mention, I believe, Marsh could have iron feruchemy as well making him a much more solid anchor. We also see Wax destroy some steel beams with his duralumin push. However I feel like the way steel works he had to also have combined a massive amount of weight to pull off the stunt. Given that iron conserves momentum I imagine he tapped weight then duralumin pushed and then stored weight again to gain even more budge as he had to push himself and Wayne to a ship he likely could barely see out in the harbor. I have little doubt Marsh has double or even triple spikes for steel and iron but I think bolstering the efforts with F-iron allows the scene of him crushing a gun make more sense to me.

Do the Fused still rely on and listen to the rhythms? If they do then the mistborn would be even more beneficial for the human army in that moment. Copper cloud drowns out the rhythms > fused investiture protects them from emotional allomancy > human army gets Rioted and Soothed. The copper is what blots out the rhythms and discombobulates the Listeners... and I do believe there fused still do some communicating through the rhythms themselves which would allow a mistborn to cause more AoE havoc in this situation.

You definately bring up a good point as to why things were done the way they were done. In terms of the OP and assaulting other non scadrians I still stand by mistborn being ideal mobile command units. Mistborn in terms of what we see yeah. This could absolutely have been a use in earlier times. I agree that mistborn in TFE had to be treated in one way. I also have to remember that Vin and Elend weren't really trained in the art of war... TLR made it so that noone needed to be trained in the arts of war so mistborn learned to be magically gifted cut throats instead. I acknowledge that 100%. In terms of a mistborn existing in a different world and different time frame in a way where they could meet up against Parshendi... they would be wasted as mere assassins.

I mean. In warfare the winning side was the one who retreated last... an allomancer soothing fear or rioting that bravery to a group of soldiers... could absolutely change the tide of a battle. I think the real issue with it would be that they could end up giving the enemy ranks just as much fuel in whichever direction they want their own men in. Positioning is your best friend here... you don't put the guy who is in charge of communications in front of the machine gunner. Mistborn make this better as they are highly mobile anyway and can pop in and out where and when they are needed. If you were running a sort of cavalry you could employ the strategy with it as well... rioting fear and anxiety in the enemy ranks as you approach. Especially if you can supply your cavalry with aluminum lining in their helmets. While in fights between Scadrian nations these tactics may not be as effective but in the OP it was about the singers and fused which would make the tactics more effective. And in that case smokers would be your best friend as an army as they would block out the rhythms from being heard by the singers. In a battle I would say throw out subtlety. You are trying to cause large shifts in the enemy psychological fortitude. If you can blast enough fear into the front line coming at you to make them pause in the same critical timespan of it will be a massive advantage as you pointed out. That is the same idea with pulsing out cadmium bubbles... even if it only effects 10 guys it can cause enough disturbance to hasten the enemy calling it quits before you do. A mistborn could start causing chaos with bubbles at the start of the fight and have already bolstered his allies with bravado and soothed away doubt and fear... then jump into the fray above the enemy and spray projectiles while sending out large waves of discouragement. Break up the enemy ranks here and retreat back to your own ranks who are suffering and try bolstered them there next. Getting into a fight with another mistborn could very well be a thing but you don't have to stay in that fight over the enemies forces. Retreat yourself and use your own people to disuade them from pursuit. It reminds me of the Tuskegee Airmen... there willingness to not peel off of the group looking for a dog fight is where they found their groove and victories. Mistborn wanting to be massive murder machines is so limiting. Sure they can take out an army on their own... but wouldn't they be better utilized as highly mobile command units?

Atium and electrum are made from the same cloth future sight wise. But I would love to do a bit of a mashup. A magic for a body guard. Something that works similarly to atium in how it shows the future of a target... but only for a specific person. I know that if this is the goal you may as well use atium but I feel giving a godmetal type of power to someone comes with a ton of issues for fueling it. My hope is for any ideas and possible uses of other systems to pseudo hack close future sight of a specific person other than the user. I imagine connection will need to be used to some degree and there will have to be a pretty decent power source. If it is possible please leave thoughts and ideas here. If not oh well. It was a long stretch anyways.

This 100%. The real motivation behind my questions... I like your examples of why extra limbs may not be the answer. The biomechanics make sense. So who makes the better in world character trying to replicate the iron spider / doc ock arms, a kandra who will have direct control over their extra limbs or an awakener with awakened ones? Or is there simply a third group that is aetherbound who grow the extra limbs and use them via their aetherbinding?

Beyond all of this, if it were real atium, surely an allomancer would have recognized it was burnable right? Since the retcon that all Scadrian people can burn atium as it is a God metal right?

I had thought about midnight essence as well because of what we saw in Dalinars vision. They were described as having claws and even being able to crack plate if I remember correctly. Of course that may not translate properly over to aetherbound but it seems that version of midnight essence can. I can't remember if the midnight essence who stabbed the guy copying Adolins murder of Sadeas used a legit knife or if that was created by the essence too?

I imagine that a blessing of potency would actually really help here as well. I can't really say whether an exoskeleton is that much heavier than a typical skeleton but certainly a blessing of potency kandra could carry around a thicker one and do more with it.

I know it's corny but studying a jumping spider and replicating that on scale would be terrifying. I assume teeth fangs and claws are in the same boat as hair and bone. But for a kandra who had access to someone.. or something that could create an exoskeleton for them they could replicate far faster travel than just a beefy horse.

Fascinating. And I suppose a Kandra who understands the anatomy of an animal would be able to ramp up that size or shrink it down assuming they have a true body that will allow it as well?

For someone wanting to create hardened / sharpenable aether which type is the best fit? Weapons and armor that will stand up to the test of time.

I will have to @Trusk'our on this one as it is a question directly related to kandra. How many limbs do you think a single kandra can operate effectively at once? I know that the limiting factor here is a lack of skeleton but lets just pretend for a moment that this kandra can grow the required structure to allow these limbs to function. We know that Kandra can't take the form of anything too large, but how much does their mental ability to control the limbs strain? 4 arms is better than 2 but my mind has an insanely difficult time trying to imagine operating 4 arms and not getting tangled up.

Yes. Large internal cavities to store water would be great. And if it is a more solid Aether they could even craft their skeleton with it. I dont know how much water is required to maintain aether once is it grown from an aetherbound... but an aetherbound kandra could totally craft a hollow skeleton to carry more water in in addition to the hydration they typically carry in their tissue. Knowing a kandra can be as large as a horse... there is a ton of potential for carrying weeks worth of water for use.

Hello all. New thought about an aetherbound kandra. I have seen some speculation on whether hydration can be traded only once it was flowing through the veins or if you could chug a gallon of water and use that, so long as it's in your gut, as a fuel source for aetherbinding. But then I thought about Kandra... now, I assume that a kandra can get dehydrated, in fact no food and water is one of their executions if my memory serves me well. But what I am most curious about is if a kandra could "drink" out of nearly any part of their body and basically absorb water like sponge turning it into nearly instant fuel for aetherbinding. The two powers seem really synergistic to me so long as there is any water source around. And the way aethers work, I think a kandra with just enough meaty bits left to hold their spikes could grow an enormous suit of aether and operate it needing to only touch the water source available to do it. For spoilers: I am just starting White Sand but I welcome all spoilers if it means more understanding of the magic. Don't worry about ruining anything for me because I genuinely only read for the world building and magic systems... if the coppermind could answer these theoretical questions for me I would let it!

Good to know. Thanks. If the bond is trading physical matter for other matter I still think it should be a fairly trivial jump for an allomancer to convince the aether they may be bound to to accept that as a payment. If it were to get pushed to an even greater extreme, a compounder. The Alloy changes when stored into, but it changes in a unique way that allows the compounder to still use it and access more power. This metal wouldn't just be a key but would hold investiture in the form of an attribute. This person may have an even easier time convincing the aether to accept it because the metal is in part a portion of themselves. Hydration is a part of the person but a so is stored weight... so a compounder wouldn't just be offering generic metals they have ingested for the aethers power, but they would be offering, directly, a portion of themselves that they have stored in the metal as well and it wouldn't just be a metal acting as a key to trigger and effect. But a keyed key specifically created and connected to themselves as well.

I genuinely look at Warbreaker being the ultimate teaser. And I am a liar if I deny wishing he paused every project over the last 3 years to write it. (I say 3 years simply because that is when I learned of Warbreaker haha).

So do you suppose an allomancer could channel their burning metal to the aetherbond directly? Thinking in terms of stormlight we know it's can be used to fuel many different abilities... even sating Vashers divine breath. In this case you would have a misting or mistborn who is intimately familure with burning metal for one power already. It seems that, if the mechanics are similar that person may be able to trade off with the aether for metal. If Preservation was working off of the same principles then it seems like an aether who communicates with their bonded person might be able to be persuaded to accept the metal. This would be really interesting looking into the future. If you get allomancers mixing with whatever Twinsouls people are you may end up with some twinborn type characters with allomancy and an aetherbond (although we don't know if that bond is genetic or hereditary do we?)

So overmastery is not a line in the sand... you almost died and your spiritweb was effected at point X? I will go subscribe to the newsletter and check out White Sands so I can understand this concept more for sure. My thought was more to allow pewter to unconsciously save you from the dehydration after crossing the line (much like Vins pewter kicking in after eating that axe). She didn't have any control over the pewter allowing her body to try to recover and in her state of unconsciousness I think I remember the pewter burning lower and slower than normal to stabilize her for her recovery. I can absolutely see it negating the effects if you are consciously burning pewter to ignore some of the negative effects though.

Okay. Yeah I totally misremembered that scene in Mistborn. Thanks for the correction. There is something correlation there and room for a pewter misting to more safely reach the overmastery limits though it seems. Since pewter arms often unconsciously burn pewter then someone with the Luhel Bond could likely push it to the overmastery point more often and more safely with pewter in the gut to help them recover past that? I kind of thought they would simply run out of hydration and die of those effects suddenly if they pushed it too hard. The way that is described makes it sound more like the bond wont let them go straight too death but get them to a point before death where they could be resusicated by a pal or whatever... My thoughts now are that pewter in the system not being burnt would allow a person to reach that point and get a check box towards overmastery (is this synonymous with savantism?) before passing out and the body starts burning pewter allowing you to snap out of it and rehydrate themselves.

The newsletter here on the shard or what? I'm totally fine with spoilers (the kind of person who wants sparknotes for just the magic no story needed). I know it's pretty scummy of me but time is not my friend anymore. Ah okay. I will look through that. Thanks.

I have not yet. I didn't get the bundle for Tress and it is not available at a local library for me, nor do they have white sands. I am hoping that I can find them at a bigger library in the future. I will keep that in mind. I didn't want to drop any spoilers from AoN but to just give my background for it. I will look into overmastery more for that. Thinking pewter may provide synergy there but that is for another thread.

Luhel Bonds exchange power for hydration. We understand and get that. I know there are easy synergies between thing like healing and bendalloy feruchemy but today I want to look at a synergy I hadn't thought about. Some magics simply shrug off the signs and symptoms of fatigue and work (while being used). Although they could be doing it in far different ways. Looking fairly specifically at pewter drags I am curious if others think this could be used to push the luhel bond beyond its limit. Using Vin and Kelsiers sprint across the Final Empire we know they were traveling the pace of a horse and if any hydration breaks were taken it was completely off screen... in fact I think there might have been conversing that happened in that scene as well suggesting they weren't even really exerting themselves to a point of feeling it. The pewter had a limit but the limit didn't seem to be tied physiologically to any cardiopulmonary type of systems nor did they describe any symptoms of dehydration holding them back. Even already injured it was, start burning pewter and continue being a menace on the field. So my question goes on... Does anyone think that burning pewter could allow a luhel bond to stretch past normal limits while allowing the user to operate at high levels and buy them the time needed to rehydrate so long as the keep a steady burn rolling? Noting all of the insanity we have seen pewter sustain people through, including some hardcore hypovolemia that would certainly result in shock for non users.

I'm a little disappointed with what we saw of Twinsoul in TLM. I really really like the aetherbinding system and have recently started into AoN, however in that book, at least so far, there has been no mention of cost associated with it. I know it's not cannon but it makes me wonder if there are still stronger bonds and weaker bonds. It makes me wonder how that might manifest in the cosmere. My problem with TLM teasing the system is that we never see it get stretched. Twinsoul tells us he trades hydration for it and he is seen drinking frequently. But we never really see him create X and show any negative effects of dehydration. What we do see is him build a massive moving golem that is moving with ease at his will and fueled by liquid investiture. I dont even recall if it indicated how much of the purified Dor was used... So really we have no idea how close this is to AoN feats... there is no in-between trivial roseite growth with no side effects and then an unknown amount of liquid investiture to power one super golem. (Again. Only on chapter 4 of AoN so in my mind at least the golem in TLM is greater mass than what the "sword" brother has been able to make in the battles I have witnessed there. Furthermore it makes me wonder if there is a difference in strength of bond that makes some users far more efficient than others. Not so much in what can be done but in how much hydration it costs. Any thoughts welcome.