therunner

I don't have a horse in this race, just a few points Marsh does not have 21 powers, he has 21 spikes. Some spikes are necessary due to his nature as hemalurgic construct (i.e. lynchpin spike, spikes in eyes) and don't necessarily grant additional powers. That said, he does have several Feruchemy powers (Gold, Atium, Pewter and Steel), which makes him more "powerful". Though technically he has nearly the same amount of powers, as Elend has 16 as Mistborn though he cannot use some due to lack of metals, and Marsh has 4 Feruchemical + 10 Alllomantic (which are confirmed). So stricly speaking Elend has more 'powers/abilities' but cannot use some, and Marsh has fewer but can use all + can Compound. I would say no, if the effect of dividing Herald and Oathpact is either done in service of 3rd Ideal, or is to help unite people more generally. (Kind of like Kalading and not protecting his enemies).

Per the OP there is CR but it is uninhabited and people on Earth cannot access it, i.e. Earth is in Cosmere but has no Invested powers or knowledge about it, see last sentence in OP.

If we give matching populations, and scale up magic users accordingly and ignore location locks and sourcing then I would say Who would win Sel - Elantrians can do anything, they basically program reality. They would roll up in CR, and just do whatever they wanted. Since the location and Investiture sourcing are not issues, they can comfortably do win. Roshar - With no location locks and Bondsmiths, they comfortably Soulcast from CR and again do whatever. (and Bondsmith can boost Soulcasting). Taldain/Nalthis - Taldain has comparable tech (or could have) + Investiture so they are superior. Nalthis has Lifeless, and hundreds of Returned. Effectively unkillable armies would eventually win (though that depends on the Awakeners staying hidden somewhere). Who would lose Scadrial - WW1 era tech, only Mistings and Ferrings with occasional Twinborn, but not enough to make a difference. No good way to move to/from CR, so cannot stay hidden for long. Hemalurgy won't grant compounding anymore. First of the Sun - low tech, relatively weak invested abilities Threnody - low tech, not much info

Please explain the difference because the Stormfather seems to disagree. Unchained = Bondsmith (or other Surgebinder) able to use Surges in a way that was not possible before Honor died, as Honor placed restrictions on them to prevent repetition of Ashyn Unoathed = Bondsmith (or other Surgebinder) using Surgebinding without swearing Oaths (i.e. someone wielding Honorblades, Yelig-Nar host, etc.) and so someone who does not have to behave in accordance with any Oaths Unchained/unbound implies more power then was available in the past (i.e. seeing Connections and directly manipulating them for Bondsmiths, opening Perpendicularity, potentially ability to manipulate Axi for Cohesion). Unoathed merely implies that the person swore no Oaths and so can behave in 'improper' fashion (i.e. Ishar experimenting on Spren). Note that unchained Bondsmith is considered by Brandon to be more dangerous than Nightblood (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/484/#e15774).

I doubt it would have more Investiture than a Shardblade, Shardblades are literally made of Godmetals they are Investiture, whereas Awakened blade is regular matter Infused with Investiture like Metalminds (Nightblood being the exception there, being supersaturated and leaking Investiture). Azure's blade does not seem to be that Invested, has limited consciousness and does not leak Investiture (so is not supersaturated). Plus it cannot shapeshift, be dismissed or summoned, and does not consume Investiture like Nightblood (so it won't grow in strength). Again, like with Shardblade I doubt it would be one fully on par or superior in general. It would be less Invested so less resistant, it would not be able to be summoned or dismissed or any other trick that depend on the Plate being spren. Awakened armor could not physically do something the material it is made of could not do (i.e. it could not fly, or change shape), so there is a question of how useful it would be compared to Metalmind armor. Plus it might block usage of Invested abilities like deadplate does, though that is open question of Identity.

Well, it is possible shard was somehow involved in creation of Nightblood, so mixing Investitures might not be enough (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/360/#e10871)

Remove your Connection to the ground That one would possibly not work, https://wob.coppermind.net/events/121/#e4765 . Based on that WoB it seems that gravity is not caused by the Connection to planet. But then Lashings apparently work through Spiritual realm (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/463/#e14664), so maybe doing a very specific trickery of the Connection to the planet could work? But maybe not reducing only redirecting. Or Lashing 'creates' fake object with appropriate gravity in Spiritual realm. Though it you can use Connection to change Age, maybe you could use it change weight as long as there was a time you had that weight? But that would have side-effects. EDIT: Ah, I overlooked this part you OP So, effective F-Iron like effect is trivial when using Lashing. Really though, Bondsmith with Honorblades of 4 other Orders would be terrifying.

I'd argue that might be possible. When burning metals you see thin lines connecting you to sources of metals, similarly Bondsmiths sees Connection lines. If those lines Mistborn/Mistings see are Connections formed through burning metal, then Bondsmith could replicate it (though they might have to touch the specific metal first, or using spiritual adhesion Connect a piece of metal in their hand with another). Actually it most likely is, both Rioting/Soothing and C-duralumin can be used to take over spiked entities. And since C-Duralumin grants only Connection, there must a component of Connection to emotional allomancy as well. Generally I'd argue that anytime we see someone affect something at a distance, they often do that through a Connection their powers forged. I.e. Pushing/Pulling on metals is facilitated by a Connection to nearby metal that is formed when burning Steel/Iron, Rioting/Soothing is facilitated through Connection to Cognitive aspects of people nearby formed when burning. Possibly manipulating that Connection could allow you to move the objects? Like change the Connection to 'we are closer'? But since Teleportation through Connection is not possible that alone won't do it most likely. Connection can be used to track seemingly anyone anywhere (Messangers in TLM), so a skilled Bondsmith could do that. And possibly also track other things about the person, considering the weird relation Connection has to time. Any relationship you have with someone (or someone has with you) would form a Connection, so that would again be something that could be manipulated, to possibly get Soothing like effect. They could possibly take up a Shard despite not being a fitting Vessel. (though Shard would have to die first). Connection can affect probability (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/395/#e13037), though most likely only in specific ways (i.e. you accidentaly pick up a same thing as someone else etc.) They could make people more skilled then they are yet (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/324/#e9280), provided they will get that skill in future. Since you can connect someone to spiritual aspect of dead people, possibly you could also connect to someone's past/future aspect (as a version of gold/malatium)? It would probably work differently from literally seeing those 'visions', but it seems probable? Of course you can take a Connection of someone else and steal it (as Ishar tried) though limits of that are unknown. You could most likely steal Nahel Bonds and other magics that are strictly Bond based (like Aviar). Allomancer has a Connection to a Shard, though if that is sufficient is open question. Stealing Elantrian's connection to Elantris would not be enough to become Elantrian.

Well, the nearest mountains are hundreds of kilometers from Elendel? If I remember right, so they don't really help Elendel much. Those mountain ranges were not really an obstacle during any war I am aware of since late 11th century, so yeah I don't consider them to be an obstacle. And Elendel while close to equator also has temperate climate (seemingly) not tropical, so being close the equator does not mean much on its own. Mountains around Shinovar are far more extensive, even your map is showing that. Mountains around Elendel Basin are regularly passed through, as Roughs are beyond them, whereas Shinovar is typically access only by sea, again demonstrating the difference. I think the reasoning (though I might be wrong, as I was not forming the posts) is that Roshar has much more spread out (and larger) population, so any greater attack would require passing through multiple mountain ranges, some of which are demonstrably very high (Urithiru and its mountain range). Edit: And 'easily walk around' them for Rosharan mountain ranges typically means de-tour of hundreds to thousands (depending on the range) of miles. That is not easy, that is weeks of travel. By contrast however Northern Scadrial has basically entire civilization situated in Elendel Basin (minus Roughs, which are sparsely populated), so at best you have to pass through a single mountain range, or even not that, depending on where you would start. For Malwish we don't have information on their demographics and location of cities etc. so it is difficult to say how much of an issue would those mountains represent. Though for trying to go after entire planet those ranges should be included and commented on I think.

I think that horses on Scadrial pre-Catecedre were physically worse off than regular horses. I don't have ebooks though so I cannot really check on that. Even then, average galloping horse has speed in range around ~30-35 mph, 40mph is bred racing horses so not really something occurring on Scadrial in Era 1. Also peak sprinting speed (which is what A-pewter can help you sustain as you don't tire at all) of Usain Bolt is ~27 mph, so for 'regular' atheltic human peak sprint speed can be considered around ~24 mph. So, while A-pewter would improve speed, it is not doubling it, at most ~1.3x improvement, and even that is assuming that Scadrial horses are quite fast for their diet and conditions. Oh, definitely there are inconsistencies. I think when Kaladin fought Helaran he already used Stormlight (if subconciously) and even so, that Shardbearer was fighting Kaladin + 20 other men and killed 16 of them. So not really a duel, and not really applicable example. Adolin and Dalinar are the best duelist on planet and best warrior, respectively. If anyone could put up a fight it would be them, and even then they lasted seconds as you said. Pewter compounder could be stronger than Shardplate, that I agree with. However they would not be both stronger and more agile at the same time. Speed wise I still think Shardplate + Stormlight wins out, even if not by much. But even if it is a bit less, it still means that A-pewter burner is just bridging the gap, and they are not getting the advantage they would have against regular person. Interesting, why Chromium? For compounding Fortune?

Yes, but that goes both ways, we cannot say those mountains are i.e. Himalayas or even just Alps and so present good natural defense, just because they are covered in snow. True, except the perpendicularity is somewhere in those mountains as well, so how defendable it is would depend on where in mountains is it, and how easily you can transport heavy machinery there. And this is also assuming that perpendicularity is the only way to attack, which is not the case (Roshar has Surge of Transportation, Sel with prep-time can do anything, forces of Autonomy can create artificial perpendicularity under some constraints etc.) Both Taldain and Roshar are extreme cases (one is tidally locked, the other was crafted by Adonalsium for some purpose). Pretty much every other planet we have seen is quite similar to Scadrial in broad features like this (Sel, Nalthis, Ashyn based on how Shinovar looks, Threnody, First of the Sun) True on logistics, but logistics is not the same as natural defenses. I agree that logisticics section could make sense, however I fear it would be far too speculative (as books typically don't concern themselves with such manners). I.e. Scadrial has ability to built traintracks, but how fast can they do it? And how fast could they scale up? Their technology is typically late 19th century (some more advnaced some less) with Set developed technologies being about 20-40 years ahead (radio, rockets, movies etc.), so it is difficult to estimate things like that. Depends on how accurate it is, but the range is generally larger then most others, so against slow moving or non-moving targets it would be sufficient. They have coinshots, not coinshots paratroopers. Elendel Basin has army of 10 000 and there is no mention of them having special Misting regimen, from what is mentioned most Coinshots work as couriers. Additionally Mistings are still relatively rare (per WoBs 1 in few hundred, per BoM 1 in 1000) so thanks to demographics that is heavily limited resource (~1000-2000 of Coinshots at best across all ages). Mine explodes on its own, this requires manual operation.

I mean, depending on time of year even very flat mountain ranges (i.e. around ~1100 meters above sea level) are covered in snow for up to 5-6 months at a time. Hell, some retain snow even until August! Also I would say that what counts as natural obstacle depends on capabilities of the attacking force, if they all fly neither rivers nor mountains will be much of defense. Same if they easily burrow underground. I think putting only non-regular features under natural defenses makes more sense (i.e. frequent earthquakes, Highstorms, Aether seas etc.), it should be something which makes the planet stand out or a combination of effects that is obvious hinderance, not something that is normal occurrence everywhere. Basically every planet has mountains, rivers etc. so influence of that on Firepower index would end up mostly cancelling out. Limited artillery fire and air attack, if we are considering them at the end of TLM, as I think is the setup of this post. So far we have not seen any actual air force from Malwish, only slow moving bombers, and artillery in basin has range less then 10 miles despite what Bilming propaganda wants others to believe (if I remember correctly) Unless they are stupid, yes they have them. If not, they have artillery and they surely have oldfashioned chains. In the worst case they'll sink a few barges. Taking a river is a nightmare against an enemy with modern weaponery. Since the post is Scadrial at TLM, and only for demonstrated capabilities, they don't yet have water mines, or even regular mines.

I'd agree with @Tamriel Wolfsbaine , Fullborn would win most of the time, because they are faster and are sufficiently strong to break through Plate. If neither one is using any powers till the second fight starts, then Bondsmith would have some chance I think? If they could open perpendicularity before Fullborn strikes the Stormlight coming through would heal and rejuvenate them, and so maybe give them enough time to do some Connection shenanigans (i.e. connect Fullborn to ground to drain them of attributes, as tapping them they would try to apply themselves to ground as well). With a few second head-start I would say Bondsmith would win, because unchained Connection powers are broken in meta-physical way.

True, however we also see how agile and dexterous someone with Stormlight is, and even deadplate improves speed, agility and reflexes. So, while pewter improves speed, agility and reflexes, it does not double them or anything like that (as far as description goes, improved strength is the primary benefit and that is ~doubling). Someone in deadplate is already faster and stronger than pewter burner with reflexes about on par, add on top of that Stormlight enhancements 'perfection' and Radiant in Plate is physically superior to A-pewter burner in every single way. So I would say A-pewter misting trying to dodge 4th Oath Radiant Shardblade is like Vin without Pewter trying to dodge someone burning Pewter. But wouldn't those heal? I think black holes are beyond even Shards, though I cannot find WoBs. But maybe a small black hole could be doable, though it would probably evaporate real fast. Good question, we don't know We actually don't even know what compounding Nicrosil does, and what regular Nicrosil does fully. In medallions it is used to store abilities, but that is apparently limited version, and per WoBs you could store kinetic investiture in them, so e.g. Stormlight etc. I'd agree with @StanLemon , I would expect A-pewter to make you up to 3x as strong per gram of muscle, and so it helps offset some of the limitation of F-pewter. Still though, even if Pewter compounder gets 3x as much strength from each additional gram of muscle, it just triples their effective maximum strength (the point at which all the muscle mass renders them immobile). In WoA when Sazed tapped so much he thought he could not walk or maneuver if he was standing he was able to hurl 11 feet tall Koloss, which would make him strong enough to throw around ~600 kg (being conservative). If the stored strength was pewter strength then that would equate being able to throw ~2 tons. So that would make compounder at that limit circa 80x as strong as regular person. That would make them about 4x as strong as Shardplate wearing Radiant, but they would be unable to move. So it would end up being trade-off, they could get stronger than Shardplate but at cost of mobility and dexterity, which in a fight is deadly. And again, this is not even considering effect of Surges on the fight. Thanks for that WoB! Full feruchemist with one allomantic power? I agree A-pewter is a good choice in that it synergies so well with Feruchemy, but personally I would go with A-steel (both for compounding and for 'flight')

How can pewter compounder dodge Shardblade? While they are a bit faster, both Stormlight and Shardplate improves reflexes and speed, so there is not much reason to believe that. Additionally, added muscle mass from F-pewter would make them less agile. Technically yes, however if the severed limb is the one that contains metalminds they would not be able to access those, as that limb is no longer connected to their Spiritweb. So a strike through spine could possibly be deadly even to them, unless they had sufficiently large goldminds in/on head. As far as we know nicrosil stores ability to use Invested Arts, i.e. Nicrosil compounder could store their ability to use A-nicrosil and maybe make it stronger? But A-nicrosil would not really help them, so as far as we know this form of Compounder could not really do much in plain combat.

Though if Radiant is conscious (and positioned well enough), they could summon blade in such a form to cut and kill Twinborn, which would immediately remove the weight and allow them to heal.

Not really, regular people don't earn Shards, Kaladin was a freak occurrence and only folk stories are told of others who managed it. Parshendi need to be in warform (about twice as strong as regular human), keep the plate wearer immobilized, and beat on it for minutes to actually break a section enough for it to be dangerous. And there were multiple of them. A single regular person, or even A-pewter misting won't be able to pull of the same because they lack 1) time , 2) help of many other people. For the topic at hand, first one note that people keep getting wrong about plate Plate can be fully sealed to become airtight, and then the faceplate becomes fully transparent (for living plate). So for Radiant there is no reason to leave eye slit open. Jasnah fought like that for tens of minutes in RoW. So any tactic that relies on visor being open is relying on Radiant making a big mistake for literally no reason. With that out of the way, the question becomes two-fold Can the Twinborn survive long enough against 4th Ideal Radiant? If they can, can they get through plate? Basically the only change for survival is either Gold-compounding, F-steel and most likely Chromium-compounding. I think F-gold alone would be unable to heal too many shardblade hits, so for it to be useful they would have to have lifetime worth of health stored. Gold-compounder however has no way to get through plate, they would have to rely on technology which could be counteracted. On top of that, Radiant in Plate would be far more mobile and dexterous so they could easily hack away at them safely (or start using Surges). Chromium-compounding, we have not seen yet (or even F-chromium really) though they might be able to beat Atium (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/360/#e10886), even then though they would not have a way to get through plate. Maybe if they had gun, and Fortune allowed them to shoot in exactly the right way to break sections? But they would also have to be able to dodge everything Radiant could do, and some Surges you cannot dodge (Reverse Lashings, Soulcasting, AoE Division, etc.) So they might do it, through some freak occurrence, but I don't think it would be usual outcome. Steel-compounder would be able to easily dodge, however attack is a question. If the technique of 'run really fast and let go of heavy stuff' works then they could eventually get through plate, however since inertia on the item would still be there they would have to move in straight line, which gives a window of opportunity for Radiant to set up counterattack. Also Reverse Lashing, soulcasting, abrasion would be problematic for them and orders that can Fly would be nearly untouchable for them. Stoneshaping could also prove dangerous for them. Twinborn with only F-steel could dodge, but I don't think they could use the speed offensively they would not have enough. One thing that is often forgotten about Feruchemy is that it gets increasingly inefficient the more you tap WoB (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/243/#e6126) . Even in the best case scenario were the the penalty for tapping more is not getting progressively worse, just each step has same penalty we get the following We assume that the increasing tapping is not getting progressively difficult, just equally difficult. At 2x tapping we get 5/6 inefficiency, at 3x we get 1/2 inefficiency, ratio of these is 3/5, so then in the most optimistic scenario the penalty when tapping n-fold is 5/6(3/5)^(n-1). If I had 100 hours of 100% speed stored the time I would get out when tapping n-fold would be 100/n *5/6 * (3/5)^(n-1), so Tapping at 10x speeds, to get total of 10+1 the human speed (i.e. 9*11 = 99 m/s), the time would 0.05 hours = 3 minutes (with original store being 100% (9m/s) speed for 100 hours) Tapping at 20x speeds, to get total of 20+1 the human speed (i.e. 9*21 = 189 m/s), the time would be 0.00015 hours = 0.5 second Tapping at 30x speeds, to get total of 30+1 the human speed (i.e. 9*31 = 279 m/s), the time would be 6*10^(-7) hours = 0.0022 second = 22 ms Tapping at 40x speeds, to get total of 35+1 the human speed (i.e. 9*41 = 369 m/s, our first sonic speed!), the time would be 0.00001 second = 0.1 ms So, even in the most optimistic scenario normal steelrunner cannot move anywhere near sonic speeds for more than literal mili/microseconds, and in such short time they can barely move from the spot before completely depleting their entire stores. This was the most optimistic scenario based on what Brandon has said, where we neglected that what he actually says is that each increase is harder than the one before, which is what I will do now. So a F-steel ferring would have to spent 100 hours sprinting and storing pretty much all of that speed to get 3 minutes of ~100 m/s speed. And that is assuming they sprint at the limit of human ability the entire time they store, elite sprinters can sustain that for ~6-8 seconds at a time, so it would take them years to build up this storage. For their A-power, basically only useful ones would be A-Iron or A-pewter. Of course the problem is that they are still susceptible to AoE surges, they cannot take hits even by accident and they have not way to reach air, underground, to CR or to see through Illusions. So Radiant could move themselves to position were they cannot be really attacked and think of a plan from there. TLDR: Chromium-compounder might win through freak occurrence enabled by massive amount of Fortune (~4/10), but they would need to have a gun of some sorts to pull that off. However they have no way to stop or dodge any AoE surges (reverse lashing, stoneshaping/cohesion, soulcasting) leaving them susceptible to those. Steel-compounder could win, the main way Radiant could counterattack are AoE Surges (Reverse lashing/abrasion/stoneshaping to immobilize, soulcasting for kill/mobility) and moving to space compounder cannot get to (air, underground, CR). I'd give them (~6/10), as Windrunner/Elsecaller should win as they can immobilize them and attack from safety, and the rest of orders would have some chance given creative use of Surges (Illusions to hide, Cohesion to immobilize etc.) A-iron F-steel can dodge but they attack options are not good, so I don't think they can really win, same goes for A-pewter/F-steel. And both of those would require life-time worth of speed stored up to be able to pull of even that.

Taking inspiration from Skybreakers 5th Ideal ( ~"I am law") i would propose something along the lines of "I will empower others to protect themselves" with the following reasoning. For Skybreakers, it seems they want do the right lawful thing, but don't trust themselves, so they use laws and systems as a crutch to make the 'right' decisions. The Oath are themed around that, dedicating to follow law, to specific goals etc. But the higher oath give more and more space for Skybreaker to interpret it as well. In this view, the 5th oath requires Skybreaker to trust in themselves and in what they understand to be lawful and right. For Windrunners, they want to help and protect others (and themselves), but can often struggle with prejudices and their own needs. The Oaths are about realizing those blindspots and working past them, 3rd Oath about protecting without difference, both anyone (Kaladin, Teft) and from anything (Lopen), 4th about balancing own needs and protection (Kaladin and his need to realize he cannot protect everyone). Then I would expect 5th to be the final step, the acknowledgement that others can protect themselves and he can help them do that, that Windrunner can let go sometimes and trust others to do what they need themselves. It would also help towards developing the second attribute of Jezrien, Leading, just like 5th Ideal of Skybreakers requires them to be Confident.

Well Plate blocks emotional allomancy, so that won't help Kelsier. Without Duralumin he has no way to get through plate. The sole trump card he has is Atium, but that will run out fast + it will only help him survive longer, not win.

It is for both stealing and granting powers (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/390/#e12677), see example of Spook getting Pewter. The Pewterarm was not stabbed through the heart. And even then, there are multiple bind points even on the heart itself, so they would still need to know which one to hit.

Considering they are unable to refill regular medallions, and not even Malwish know what the hell Bands are, I doubt they can. And how many telegraphs are in Roughs? You still need to hit correct bind point to steal specific things, see HoA and https://wob.coppermind.net/events/390/#e12677 , https://wob.coppermind.net/events/270/#e7711 . So somehow Scadrial would have to figure out which bind points corresponds to Nahel bond, something they have exactly zero experience with. Additionally Terris still don't really understand even Feruchemy connection powers, and Hemalurgy is even less known (some Set scientists, and whoever Marasi showed the book), and no one has even demonstrated they know how to use it beyond stealing attributes and Allomancy/Feruchemy, which still took either Shard-provided knowledge (TLR, Set) or years of experiments (Set, Spook).

No they did not? What are you referring to? The only thing they found is a way to kill spren permanently, which however also works against Fused.

I think brass compounder could generate greater heat, but it would kill them (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/13/#e5025). Conversely, Radiant with Division could not achieve such high temperatures, but they could heal themselves from any damage it would do to them (provided enough Stormlight). So, Compounder would win, but burn themselves out.

I don't think coppercloud would prevent soulcasting as it seems Brandon intends (thought he can change his mind) for Aluminum grenades to create fields where Invested abilities cannot be used (and so presumably long-range ones cannot be used on anything inside). If copper blocked also blocked invested abilities, that would be quite an overlap, which he typically does not do. I see copper more as 'interference'? So it would hinder communications, etc. (so if only one of Radiant and spren was in coppercloud, they could not communicate properly), that goes along with the fact that it blocks Bronze which detects things. And generally other examples of Copper were only blocking sense (life sense, voidspren detecting surges, etc.). It seems that the only active ability it blocks is Emotional allomancy, and only for the Misting/Mistborn. Along those lines it would probably help against attacks that go directly after their mind (i.e. they could maybe resist the compulsion from Nightblood better). WoB below