therunner

I would only point out that in both of those occasions (Spook getting spiked, Penrod getting spiked) it was Ruin guiding the actions and providing Intent. So neither are good examples of spiking 'on the fly', as it was effectively a Shard doing it.

Ah, alright, thanks for more information And yeah, so long as we can use Investiture to source elements/neutrons we could bypass this limitation (i.e. do something like turn ~1% of mass into neutrons, and then the rest into fissionable or better yet fissile material. That could at least partially work out, no? That makes sense, though the decay would take time on order of minutes (going by half-life of neutron), so in the mean time they could get captured by surrounding atoms (and possibly trigger fission, depending on kinetic energy they would gain). Probably less dangerous, due to charge it would not really split atoms so easily. Plus it would not cause neutron activation, so that is bonus. I would wager the explosiveness would be nuclear-level, but there would be less fall out due to lack of neutrons and radioactive elements in the leftovers (as there would be only protons). Though if there was enough energy some protons could be transmuted to neutrons, but that would require a lot of it to produce neutrino-antineutrino pairs. Yes! That is what i meant! And yep, gluons for quarks/pions for hadrons in general. Though my point was a bit more 'fundamental', the only thing controlling the strong force is the coupling constant and nothing else. So both the range and strength can only be controlled together (assuming you can 'control' strong force). The range of the force is given by 1) Asymptotic freedom for original strong force 2) Mass of pions, which can be though of as resulting from the non-exactness of chiral symmetry. Neither of these leave you anything to control outside of the original coupling constant of strong force. If you can play directly with gluons (as in make them behave unphysically), that would be veery interesting. Though then we could also play directly with W+- and Z bosons for weak force with Stoneshaping, which would allow us to forcefully trigger a lot of stuff There is actually WoB basically explaining Lashing in terms of fake masses. The lashing basically created a fictitious supermassive object in the desired direction, that exists only in the spiritual realm and only the Windrunner is connected to it. And at the same time temporarily 'severs' the connection to planets gravity. (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/305/#e11455 and https://wob.coppermind.net/events/406/#e14101 ) How this relates to gravitons is an open question, as any particle is basically just a smallest possible disturbance in given quantum field, but any classical field configuration cannot really be though of in those terms. (i.e. electrical field is not a bunch of actual photons moving back and forth, though it can be mathematically described using non-physical interaction with virtual particles). So from Windrunner example any manipulation of other force would work by creating a fake spiritual illusion with given charge , that would act as if real for given other particle. So you could create 'fake particles', but not directly manipulate pre-existing ones. The only manipulation would be through this spiritual facsimile you could create. Thank you for the compliment This is a very fun discussion for me And apologies to @Frustration for derailing .

Thank you! I enjoy it as well, it forces me to plug some gaps in my knowledge, it has been a while since I was looking at this particular field of physics. Well true, but that energy is there in a very specific form (mass defect) and is released in a very particular way. So you either have to induce the particle exchange/fission through some particle interaction, or by adjusting the force directly (i.e. manipulating its coupling constant, which for strong force would have a bunch of knock-on effects). The above is presuming that while Invested art allows for manipulation of PR forces, it does so through pre-existing interaction channels, or at most through creating fictitious particles to interact with (like the fake supermassive object for Lashings in Gravitation Surge). Yes that is true. But if the atoms can decay and one of the products is neutron, this neutron can then induce fission of other atoms, leading to fission. And thank you for correcting me on U236, I have somehow confused it and though it was fissile. I think I meant to talk about Pu238 again, but somehow uranium came to my mind. Apologies on that. I wonder just how destructive that would be Probably not very, now that I think about it. It would quickly decay, however there would be any repulsive force actually, so it would not be that interesting most likely :/ It would be useful to study neutronium matter properties though! But taking Iron atom Fe54, and turning all neutrons into protons so that we now have 'xenon' isotope with no neutrons to stabilize the nucleaus would probably lead to fun outcome Yeah, but the somehow is doing quite a lot of lifting there, in my mind The energy is only there because of 1) existence of strong force and associated charges 2) presence of particles carrying those charges. So to manipulate that energy you have to either a) change the particles (like weak/strong/em forces allow) b ) change the coupling constant of the strong force directly Those are the only options, if we assume that the Invested art has to use/fake pre-exisiting interaction pathways (like Gravitation lashing and its fake mass). Zinc compounder would be an option, maybe Bendalloy/duralumin combo would work? Though there you would have to be able to affect things outside of bubble. It would definitely be fun to see weaponized supernova (well for us, not for anyone on the business end of it)

Yes, but how would you do that? How do you 'break' force? Yes, but the mechanism using Investiture can be less energetically intensive. In a sense it would be taking a work around instead of brute forcing it using IRL physics. And so you could get more out of it then you put in. The usage of weak force would be to induce a neutron emitter or create unstable nuclei directly, i.e. U236 which is fissile. If you can change protons to neutrons and vice versa as you desire, you can create arbitrary isotope, only limitation is total atomic number of atoms you are starting with which has to stay the same. I.e. you could make something like 236He, which would presumably fall apart veery quickly, and not through alpha channel. Using weak force and bunch of protons you can just make neutrons directly, so you don't have to rely on neutron capture to kickstart fission. Break what? There is no 'bond' in the chemical sense for example, just a stable configuration as a result of mutual interactions. Calling it a bond is oversimplification. Fair enough on most isotopes decaying via alpha/beta channels. Thank you Me too Not sure if this is feasible, I doubt anyone in Cosmere is fast enough for that Plus you would have to ensure that neutrinos and anti-neutrinos don't annihilate together (if they are energetic enough that is).

No actually, fission does not involve strong force at all (well, outside of providing the energy). Quarks and stuff are not involved at all (except through decay) in real world nuclear fission (as far as I am aware). Nuclear explosion is just extremely fast form of fission, which is driven by nuclear decay because of radioactivity of the element. The key there is that one atom decaying will trigger more than one to decay (typically by neutron capture) leading to exponential chain reaction. If Stoneshaping can force nuclei into an unstable configuration that would decay, and they can do this to kg's of matter at once, they don't have to trigger chain reaction, they will just make it so immediately. While lighter elements require more energy to fission than they give off, that is using 'regular' mechanisms, not 'use Investiture to convert proton to neutron or vice versa'. In fact because atoms are stable through balancing EM-force and residual strong force, changing neutron to proton would typically result in unstable atomic nuclei that would decay. It's just that for such process to happen through IRL physics you would require inverse beta decay which has very small width (since it involves neutrino capture) and so requires a lot of energy. If Investiture can bypass this, they can induce fission of light elements even for relatively small energy cost (the mass difference is < 1 MeV). Turn it into pile of Pu238, which is fissile, all you have to do is use weak force to convert one neutron into one proton. If you have enough it will then explode on its own, or you can again use weak force to force some atoms to decay to forcibly kickstart and sustain fission process, as nuclear decay is mediated by weak forces. The residual strong force is attractive and helps holds nuclei together, however you would have to change its strength or something to use its manipulation to trigger fission. Now if you could do that, that would work as well, but in principle it is the same as what you would get in the weak force manipulation, i.e. shift the atom into unstable configuration (in one case by changing the ratio of protons to neutrons, in the other by changing the force so that the already existing ratio is now unstable). In principle if Cohesion works even just on EM force, but that includes being able to change its strength, that would be sufficient to trigger fission as well (increase strength of EM in the atoms, to make the proton repulse each more strongly and overcome the binding energy). But yeah, it is magic so it just does things, without needing to tie it back to IRL mechanism and phenomena

Not exactly, weak forces are the ones that typically mediate nuclear decay and nuclear fission, not residual strong force. The energy that is unleashed does come from energy of nuclear force/residual strong force, but the decay itself is weak force mediated. If stoneshaping allows for manipulation of weak force, it could induce change in elements (protons -> neutrons) and possibly induce fission that way, as the element is turned into unstable isotope. They would probably have to do it en-masse though, as they would not be able to get the chain reaction necessary for bomb. It's pretty clear that unbounded by what Honor did Stoneshaping can do what Microkinesis did, including nuclear explosions Now the only question is whether you think those rules fell away along with whatever Honor did to Bondsmithing do not. Alternative explanation is that that Khriss is wrong on the assumption that Honor bound Stoneshaping in this manner (by analogy with how he bound Bondsmithing), thought I don't personally think that.

Copper shields only emotional allomancy, it has no effect on any other Allomantic powers. Surgebinding is pushing around much more power then allomancy typically, so why would copper block physical Surgebinding, if it cannot block even physical Allomancy? Seeing is a matter of skill/ability, influencing trace metals is another. All Inquisitors (and Kelsier) can see trace metals, but they cannot push on them because it is beyond their power.

Ah, sorry for misunderstanding then I also don't think spiritual vs physical healing has been addressed exactly, however from some WoBs on Miles and from the way Shardblades are treated I would say spiritual healing is a bit more Investiture invested or at least not less so than physical healing. And even then Shardblade would still have advantage of one hit kill's when it goes to spine, I don't think that would be healed typically (do we have some examples?). And finally, being Invested by itself will not grant healing ability, holding a lot of Breaths for example would not help heal wounds. now that would be creepy Ah, I thought you mentioned Duralumin specifically since it is also Allomantic metal. Sadly we don't have more information, only that some alloys of aluminum do share the Investiture inertness, and others don't. No information on how many there are, or what is the possible mechanism by which it happens, or if they have lesser effect than pure Aluminum.

I don't think it is that clear cut (pun intended). Shardblades can damage e.g. spren and those are made of Investiture, so being merely Invested enough does not seem to be sufficient to block the cutting power. Cutting Radiant holding Stormlight seems to be equally difficult to cutting anyone without it, just that with Stormlight Radiant can heal damage as it is done. I agree that Honorblades, other Shardblades, aluminum swords would resist. Nightblood obviously, Azure's sword possibly? Nightblood is a lot more Invested and a special case so it is difficult to draw a generalization from him. However regarding Scadrial, Bands of Mourning are still far less Invested then a Shardblade, so even someone using them would not be Invested enough to resist Shardblade. Now that I'd like to see Users are supernaturally good at hiding behind corners (as in, even a corner of table leg is sufficient for them to hide behind), and they can teleport between corners they have in line of sight But to break the helm you would have to land on average two or three hits in relatively quick succession (so the damage does not heal in the meantime). If you argue that Coinshots are difficult to hit in general, than I would say hitting just head that is moving at similar or larger speeds is downright impossible, especially in quick succession. And on paralysis through duralumin soothing/rioting, I am not sure how long that would work. My reasoning is as follows, when Vin did that she pretty much deadened all his feelings, and that persisted even after she stopped actively doing it (as she used Duralumin). However, Radiant holds Stormlight, which has also cognitive effect (namely urge to act, move etc.) So it is possible that this would work as sort of rioting, and after Duralumin soothing ends, this would rouse Radiant back to action as a form of 'rioting'. Do you think that would make sense? But Mistborn is invested when using Allomancy (as they give off pulses) as is Radiant holding Stormlight. Surgebinding is just directing that Stormlight somewhere to some effect, so active Surgebiding would actually diminish how invested Radiant is. So Radiant is more Invested that Mistborn burning metals. How great is the difference, and how much it interferes with rioting/soothin is open question. I think Shardblade should cut duralumin like anything else, as far as we know duralumin can be effected by Investiture and does not block it, so it should not have any special effect on Shardblade. What is mentioned in AoL in passing is that only some alloys of Aluminum are allomantically inert like Aluminum is, so those are the ones that would probably interfere also with Shardblade cutting (though possibly to lesser extent? )

I am reading that Mistborn is as invested as Radiant when Radiant does not hold Stormlight. He then says that both Stormligh and burning metals makes it more difficult, but does not say which more. Nevertheless you would need to fully break the helmet not just crack it, the Investiture created sort of a field effect. And even then Mistborn can paralyze for a moment but once they did that they need to ingest vial to be able to do it again which will take time.

Well yes, but for the other magic systems users who are viewpoint characters typically also have only few years of experience (Elantrians, Radiants, etc.). Here Wax and Wayne are a bit outliers, in that both have been using their abilities for a bit over decades at this point. We can probably take them as example of what supremely skilled twinborn look like. Oh Mistborn can be more skilled (Vin as you said, Kelsier with steel/iron), but typically they are more skilled in one or two metals and in the rest Mistings are more skilled by the virtue of being able to spend all their time on just one ability. I was thinking about it, but if oponent has healing this is not necessarily winning move, though useful one. Plus there is a question of how e.g. having multiple breaths, being Radiant (so spiritweb is merging with spren), holding Stormlight (which has its own cognitive effects) would interfere with this. And if someone has Shardplate or simple aluminum hat this tactic is completely blocked.

Yes they do train, and they are stated to be much less skilled with them then Mistings who can focus on only single metal. They can achieve the skill of Misting in one or two metals, if they focus on them, but for most they will be less skilled then average Misting. Problem is that while Mistborn have 16 powers, in practice they have only few external effects those being Increased strength, speed and improved reflexes (Electrum would look like far improved reflexes so it is hidden here) Ability to manipulate metal to and from themselves + limited 'flight' Ability to enhance/suppress emotions Ability to create bubbles of sped up time + possibly shields of slowed time Ability to leech Investiture or supercharge it Those are the things that are perceptible to outside party. 1 and 2 would be obvious from outset, 3 possibly as well (depending on how quickly Mistborn would use it), 4 would look like sudden bursts of speed and that projectiles 'stop' in the air (possibly forcing melee confrontation). 5 would be a surprise, but it takes time to leech things so it might not be a trump card. Mistborn can only surprise opponent with those powers once, and against foes with healing pretty much none of these are a trump card outside of lucky hits. They are more versatile then way Windrunners are, but in combat I don't think it gives them much of an edge. In specific situations sure, but across the board no. I mean, so can anyone? Hiding behind a corner can be done by anyone, anytime there is a corner nearby. How is that Mistborn special power? The most advantage they would have is detecting the opponents Investiture to sense their coming, but you can also, you know, listen for footsteps or wind? Against Radiants specifically this could be confounded by spren, though how different/similar their Bronze pulses are we don't know. Ah, alright then

I would say most likely not. Pewter can keep you going to some extant, and help heal faster, but even then Vin took what nearly three months to heal broken ribs and internal wounds? While burning pewter pretty much all the time? She was unconscious for two weeks and that was after Sazed stitched her up and cared for her. I think pewter only helps 'natural' healing and makes it happen faster and more efficient, but it would not let Mistborn regrow arm for example, even with Duralumin. Broken bones, internal bleeding those it could help with, but it would require amount of pewter sufficient for month or two of constant burning, so quite a lot.

I think it was stated somewhere that the stagnation was result of Lord Ruler being kind of conservative. He was a simple packman, and seemed to have distate for the technologies and culture of other nations, so it would make sense he would suppress what he did not like. Also I think Autonomy was not making overt moves earlier because Preservation and Ruin would act against her (while they are opponents when it comes to fate of Scadrial, they would presumably work together against another Shard butting in), whereas Harmony is increasingly impotent and needs to act in indirect ways.

But squires could leave, as they have not yet bonded spren. Skybreakers specifically bond only on 3rd Oath. So 2nd Oath Skybreaker could leave Roshar in principle. They would lose powers as they would be too far, unless something strengthen the Connection to Knight to whom they are squired.

But Leras was phased by it, so it is extraordinary circumstance. TLR was not phased because one dead Inquisitor would not really change anything. Indeed if Vin did not draw on Mists TLR would wipe out the rebels easily by himself. Tin is occasionally used for that purpose, but at the same time it makes you more susceptible to sensory overload. Using tin to stay unconscious is like pinching yourself to stay awake, strong input to overrride other stuff. It is handy, but not exactly too far out of ordinary, combat wise. But Mistborn cannot hide themselves, only hide they are using Investiture (and only if the opponent is weaker then they are), which against most opponents is pointless since they don't have ways to detect it (and in 1-1 fight it is even more pointless). It is useful in locating foe if you don't know where they are, in open combat utility is limited. You will notice Shardbearer coming at you anyway. In 1-1 Mistborn will lose to just 3rd Oath Windrunner. Here we are talking about extraordinarily weak Mistborn vs 4th Oath Radiant, even worse scenario. And the comment about them being not good soldiers was made in reference to somehow who disputed that. I just pointed out that while in pre-Industrial era Mistborn powers are a nightmare on battlefield, after Aluminum becomes widespread and weapons become more destructive, their powers are limited and and their squishines makes using Mistborn as soldiers a waste. Their skill set is simply no longer suitable for that. Now if you were to give them/implant in them a bunch of charged Unkeyed Goldmines, that would improve their status. It is true that in the Shaw all Set had them, and Wax is described as hiding/avoiding the bullets. However, that is such a plot armor feat comparable to Kaladin in RoW One lucky bullet could have killed Wax then and there (or really even grande with Aluminum shrapnel would have killed him). Once opponents have aluminum bullets, steel bubble won't do a thing, and the speed bubbles can potentially be popped (on this let's agree to disagree, personally I doubt that Mistborn would get literally impregnable shield, every power in Cosmere can be overcome somehow). Yes, but again, Wax is a Crasher, not just Coinshot, which improves his maneuverability considerably. I personally recall only one, in which the bullet was deflected wildly and they quickly left bubble and re positioned. But this would not be an issue for the Cadmium/Bendalloy shield. Good point! I am probably still leaning that aluminum bullet could disrupt bubble, or something else would happen. The most obvious thing is that aluminum bullets would not be affected by the time bubble, so they would in fact be moving slowly even in the bendalloy bubble, and would be actually super-fast in Cadmium bubble, seemingly inverting the effect. Also for this particular case, apparently Shardblade could cut steel-lines (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/70/#e2796 ,no idea how that is supposed to work), so it could possibly disrupt the bubble as well. Oh there are definaly Radiants which are 'worse' in open combat then Mistborn because they lack offensive options (outside of Shardblade at the moment). However all of them still have far better survivability then Mistborn does, simply because they can heal. But this is not the scenario we are discussing here, right now we are talking about very weak Mistborn with F-Iron and shrapnel grenade launcher vs 4th Oath Windrunner with Shardplate and Shardblade. Regular Mistborn would lose this fight, and weak one even with F-Iron would as well. Wax simply does not have anything at his disposal that could kill Windrunner with plate, and even without Plate it would be difficult for him.

Interesting idea, though I think it would not necessarily work. Poisons kill by disrupting necessary biological functions (e.g. breaking down compounds, binding in place of something vital etc.). However the more powerful healing abilities (Stormlight, compounded Gold) seem to be able to deal with such disruption fine, i.e. someone with Stormlight does not have to breathe, so this kind of healing could possibly also take place of a lot of those disrupted processes. Now, if that would happen, as long as they have access to their power they would be ok, though once they would stop they would be in trouble.

I said killed in combat, not killed in general. The WoB can cover killing in ambush, or assassination, not just open 1-1 fight. And as @Frustration Leras considered it to be among the most impressive things he has seen, so Mistborn killing Inquisitor is not a regular occurrence. And I did acknowledge they have versatile powers. But a lot of their powers are of limited utility in the middle of combat. Let's us take a look for open combat Steel - useful in combat (offense, mobility and defense) - however defensive utility can be countered by use of Aluminum, making it less useful the more in future of Cosmere we go Iron - useful in (offense, mobility) - same limitation as Steel, and not so useful for defense Pewter - general improvement of physical abilities, useful in combat Tin - potentially a hindrance in combat (strong sensation can overwhelm user, though Pewter can compensate), not directly useful in open combat Zinc/Brass - useful against not heavily Invested foes, can be easily countered by Aluminum hat Copper - useless in open combat Bronze - useless in open combat (possibly could be used to detect illusions) Duralumin - useful in combat to enhance other metal in a trade-off (if the move does not work out, you are out of one metal) Aluminum - useless in combat Nicrosil - useless in combat (outside of very special scenarios) Chromium - useful only against Invested enemies Gold - useless in combat Electrum - useful in combat, though requires practice (and Aluminum objects don't leave shadows) Cadmiun - useful only in combination with Bendalloy to set up a shield (which could be popped by aluminum) Bendalloy - useful in combat against ranged attacks So out of 16 powers you have 8 which are always useful, and 2 which must be used in conjunction with other metals (Duralumin and Bendalloy). From this you get only some basic physical improvement, ability to manipulate in limited fashion metallic objects, to manipulate emotions, limited precognition and pseud-shield/defensive bubble. On its own impressive, but the second foes start using aluminum guns (which are far superior to coinshots) and grenades, they will have a hard time. Add in aluminum hats and suddenly all they are left with is physical improvement, and ability to manipulate metallic objects (+ mobility). Mistborn have little place on a battlefield under such conditions, most of their abilities can be negated too easily by prepared foe and they are far too easy to kill. They are still better off than someone with no Invested arts, obviously, but compared to e.g. Windrunners of 3rd Oath and up they are sorely lacking, with the difference only increasing as technology develops. Edit: Conversely, spying/assassinations are good match since their powers are easy to hide (no overt physical effect), use mundane source for power (metals), can be used without detection with care (remote effect on emotions/metalic objects). And they can detect usage of Investiture and hide their own, again giving the good tool for obtaing/concealing information. Outside of AoL most enemies actually don't use Aluminum bullets if I recall. And often he is with Wayne and taking advantage of speed bubble to reposition/figure things out. And he has also F-Iron, allowing him to change speed in air in a way regular Coinshot cannot, advantage Mistborn does not have. Coinshots are moving at most about as fast as a car, so not beyond targeting abilities. I don't have books on hand, could you take a look? Most of the time I think Wax and Wayne leave bubble before bullets would go through, because they are thrown wildly off-course so could end up hitting them anyway. I would expect that aluminum would disrupt even a bubble that has been setup like it does with other pre-existing effects, but it is a conjecture.

I would think that Vin in the process of Ascending would be an exception, just like when Vin was holding the power of Well of Ascension. In one case she was becoming a Shard, and in the other held a fraction of the power of Shard (enough to move planet!). So I would expect those to be just exceptions that slipped his mind (being quite special cases).

Interesting! And I suspect we have actually already seen some 'fusion' spren (or at least pre-cursor to it), namely the Enlightened Spren of Sja-Anat. They are Honor/Cultivation spren with some Odium investiture, and if that Investiture was originally some other (possibly lesser) spren, then they would be fusion spren. We know that in the past Sja-Anat was unable to affect higher spren, so this evolution of her abilities could be in this direction. Surges would then be modified to an extent, possibly even creating previously impossible combinations of Surges. Oaths would be different too, though how is difficult to say, something in line with the Intent of the new spren. And fabrials could possibly work similarly, as they do for enlightened spren.

Fair interpretation, however the WoB then still says that non-Invested metals (even in stomach) get leeched before Invested ones. Hence metals not being burned get leeched. I think most people overestimate Mistborn. We have mostly seen them fight against people far weaker then they are (regular soldiers, Mistings) with at most leather armor, and wooden shields. The few times they had to fight someone stronger or comparable (Inquisitors other Mistborn) it was a struggle, and they knew what to expect from them, and still just Inquisitors having healing abilities made them formidable foes. They had to rally on removing lynchpin spikes often. I mean, Kelsier is literally the first person to defeat Inquisitor in combat, so it is not like Mistborn do it commonly. Mistborn on battlefield is one well aimed grenade from being dead, compared to Windrunner who would heal up and continue on his way (albeit weakened and possibly running low on Stormlight). That is why Mistborn are more suitable as spies and assassins, they have versatile and relatively powerful powerset that is easy to conceal, but they are unbelievably squishy by Cosmere standards on Invested arts. Also what would harmonium do for Mistborn? They cannot even ingest it. Regular guns are still dangerous if you are not quick enough, even for Mistborn. If they are aluminum ones, then Mistborn is nearly as defenseless as regular person against them (no shielding with pushes, no help from pewter when healing). Mistborn cannot stop time, they can at best slow it down by a factor of ~15-80, and only within few feet of themselves. We know how that ability can be used in combat we have seen Wayne for 4 books. And the bubbles get popped by aluminum, making them increasingly riskier the more aluminum becomes common. Sure, but how effective against regular soldiers is not really relevant for this thread. And I doubt the grenade even with duraluminum help would be able to penetrate Shardplate. Even Wax with Vindication (which is made to deal with hardier stuff) would typically take several bullets to break a section. And once Wax does that, he is unable to use steelpushes to move until he ingests another vial, leaving him far outstripped in mobility.

But he specifically says that Hoid is the only Radiant to get out of system, and following that is the first. That does leave the room for the Voidbinders, squires with enhanced Connection etc. Those are not Radiants (so escape the first clause) and could have simply left after Hoid, escaping the second clause. The room is there for non-Allomancer interpretation. Option 1 the way you stated is not Brandon said though, he said Hoid is the only Radiant who left with powers intact, and there are other Surgebinders on Roshar.

Interesting! And since this is after BoM was released, holder of Bands of Mourning also would not be able to push on Shardblades. Technically Vin on Mists would also be unable to do so, though that one feels even wilder to me.

Ok, will try to do it Technically he actually did not say they cannot take spren off-world. All he said is that at this point in continuity/time Skybreaker could not easily get off Roshar So it is possible He believes that Hoid is the only Radiant who managed to get off Roshar and maintain powers Brandon only believes this (and asks us not to hold him too much to this statement). Additionally, this is specifically about Radiants, not Surgebinders in general or e.g. Voidbinders He thinks that Hoid is the first to get out of system. If Hoid is the first, there is a second (a weak one, I know ) Brandon only says he believes Hoid is the only Radiant to get off-world an maintain powers. This may be only my perception, but Brandon rarely uses such language in WoBs. He also qualifies it by asking us to not hold him to this too much. In my mind this leaves room for the following two interpretation: Hoid was first to get out of system (as he was off-world by AoL about 7 years prior to TLM), but in the meantime someone managed to replicate the feat. That someone managed to get a few Skybreakers off-world. Hoid was first to get out of system (as he was off-world by AoL about 7 years prior to TLM), but someone tried to replicate it, but succeeded in only getting some with either Surgebinding or Voindbinging out of system, but not Radiant. This could be e.g. Squires who somehow have their Connection to Radiant enhanced so they maintain some powers even at such a distance. Human equivalent of Fused Voidbinders non-Radiant Surgebinders (as Surgebinding pre-dates existence of Knights Radiant) The WoB is below:

Yes, however I brought that up only in the response to statement that Mistborn would outlast Lightweaver. I mentioned that Mistborn do run out of metals (and we see it happen). I do think that any argument hinging on 'opponent will run out' is relatively weak, since for Mistborn it would be 'easy' to ingest a lot of metal before hand to have at least hour of most metals, and Lightweaver can have enough spheres to last then hours as well.