therunner

Ehm, it does. Question is about metals both in stomach and piercings, metal in stomach is either being burned or not. If not burned, it is not-invested, and per WoB it will be leeched away before the Invested ones. Mistborn are good on battlefield if you are fighting against people using swords and clubs, with little to no armor. Once opponents have guns Mistborn is going to have trouble, and once those bullets are aluminum ones, they are nearly just a regular person with not-quite flight. Put on aluminum hats and plate your metal in aluminum, and you have just negated pretty much all the ranged options Mistborn has. Add in aluminum bullets and Mistborn has single defensive option and that is Bendalloy bubble for dodging, but aluminum bubble would pop those, so even that would not help too much. Comparably Windrunner in plate can withstand bullets pretty well (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/100/#e3561), and even without plate has much better options (their flight not being dependent on external conditions, ability to lash anything outside aluminum though it has to be within reach). That grenade launcher is designed for shrapnel (Wax's words), and even when detonating in stairwell it does not do much to damage the construction. I think Shardplate while damaged, would still hold after one hit. And there is no visor in the Shardplate. Even deadplate can close it (while sacrificing some peripheral vision) but on living plate the visor is translucent fully, so there is no reason to keep visor open.

It is easier to carry more metal true, but a person can carry enough spheres to last literal hours while using Surges non-stop (Kaladin's flight to Hearthstone at beginning of OB). Since Lightweaving consumes relatively little compared to Lashings, Lightweaver creating only Illusions could possibly outlast Mistborn. Fair point, however using that fights are done according to narrative conventions and tropes as argument feels, odd? Effectively every fight is determined beforehand through narrative, so from that perspective nearly nothing in the books outside of Arcanum should be taken as evidence, which then makes these threads completely moot.

There is not one stating the atium requirement exactly, but Atium is tough to beat in close quarters (though if pure Godmetals don't leave Atium shadows like Aluminum, then it would be nearly useless against 4th Oath Radiant). Most are phrased comparing Kaladin and Vin (with timing being at the time Kaladin was 3rd Oath). Since both are prodigies, it is typically taken that those WoBs generalize across comparable skill levels. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/4/#e1432 basically stating that Mistborn can only win by sneaking around and striking like that (not something Wax is good at). https://wob.coppermind.net/events/4/#e4854, https://wob.coppermind.net/events/35/#e5018 Again stating that on battlefield Kaladin would win over Vin. While the second two assume Vin, so most likely without access to last 4 metals, it would not make much difference. Chromium won't help against someone in Shardplate, and requires sustained physical contact (i.e. Shardblade range), Bendalloy bubble is useful only to do small repositioning (and is not anchored to user, so is useless in air), and Cadmium bubble is only useful in conjunction with Bendalloy to create a sort of shield (which could be possibly popped by Shardblade, since they can cut Iron/Steel lines) and again can really be only used on ground as both are stationary. Completely fair, probing questions keep us all honest.

Not true, it works on all metals (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/101/#e881), with the WoB suggesting that metals not being currently burned would actually be leeched first. Since he already has experience with other metals from Bands of Mourning, he can simply ingest vial with all metals and try to burn them. And because he already knows how it feels, he would recognize it. So while Wax is a Mistborn he is incredibly weak one, weaker than Vin. And already 3rd Oath Windrunner can beat full Mistborn (minus Atium). All Wax has going for him is Steel, Duralumin and F-Iron. He is far less mobile, cannot heal, cannot protect himself from Lashed items, and has nothing that would help him against Shardblade. Coins cannot penetrate even wood, so they would do nothing to Shardplate, and using Duralumin for stronger push would leave him effectively immobile. Grenade launcher would be not particularly useful against Shardplate (at least based on the fact that grenades were shrapnel based it seems), and even Wax would typically take 2-3 bullets to break a single section. And even after breaking a section he has no easy way to kill Radiant with Stormlight.

I would actually expect that bronze would not be able to really pickup illusions, Lightweavers can avoid being noticed by the alerter spren, suggesting they are 'quiet'. With enough training, or great sensitivity I would expect it would be possible, but it would be non-trivial. Not exactly true, both Vin and Wax are running out of steel relatively commonly, and carry additional vials to help with that.

For getting around a solar system it would actually be quite enough. At 1G you could get to moon in ~3.5 hours, and to other planets in a couple of days, maybe a week. It would be faster than anything we can built currently (or in near future). See this handy post https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/840/how-fast-will-1g-get-you-there Interstellar distance are of course an issue, speed of light is pretty hard limit.

Good and fair point, guess we will see more in future

I would say that probably any sufficiently trained Windrunner could do that. They (and most orders) get access to all surges immediately, only Dustbringers and Skybreakers are confirmed to get access to Division only at higher Oaths. We have seen Windrunners use Adhesion early on (even prior to swearing 1st Oath), and this is 'just' more advanced application of Adhesion. Even in OB Kaladin created a windbreak large enough for several people to be in and move, so it was not just immediately around him. But it is for sure a more speculative application.

Fair point, however I think in a lot of situations when pushing he does not tap/store weight. And there is also the steel bubble, which I think at this point is not a result of neither resonance nor savantism? But that one is disputable.

But it can be clearly learned (see what Wax with decades of experience can do), and also regulating how much you burn the metal will help as well. I do think it is still lesser control than what Gravitation user has, but it is possible. But at any given point Kaladin is still weightless (barring effects of air pressure), there is nothing to generate the shear and stress forces. Changing of direction goes like this: He falls is one direction, gains speed v, dismisses lashing and creates new one and just gains a new direction of fall, so his resulting speed is vector sum of v and a_l*t. All inertia does is affect how quickly he can shed his previous speed. Effectively his speed v is like if he was shot out of a e.g. cannon with some speed, its presence does not change that gravity wise he is in free fall. But since inertial systems are systems moving with some velocity (or more generally, any free falling system is locally inertial), he is still in free fall at every single moment and should not experience g-forces. It is kind of counter-intuitive because we literally cannot experience anything like this, but at the end of the day if you are in free fall you will not experience g-forces even if you have some previous speed, so e.g. a fighter jet with 'gravitational engine' could pull off maneuvers that are on paper high-g without worrying about damage to its pilots, because every single thing in the plane would experience the same acceleration and so would experience weightlessness.

So funny thing is that gravitation should not suffer any penalties when accelerating/decelarating. The problems of fast acceleration/deceleration are due to uneven acceleration across the body, and the resulting shear and stress forces in the body (i.e. your skull stops, but your brains does not). However, gravitational acceleration affects all the body parts equally, and so would not lead to such effects. Of course book evidence goes against it, which is veery confusing from physical perspective. Only explanation is that somehow Windrunner only lashes their bones or something? However, if both people (i.e. the one with gravitation and the one with steel/iron) have only those powers, then the limit of what their body can take as far as acceleration goes is the same for both. And since Lashing can replicate any effect of steel/iron (stacking lashing in appropriate directions), and even do better (more available directions, better control over acceleration/deceleration). So maneuverability should go to gravitation user. Not necessarily, in steel/iron you exert some force which can be modulated (strong/gentle pushes/pulls), so there is some acceleration on you given by the force and your mass. Gravitation user can apply any acceleration they want to themselves. Additionally, when training (TFE) Vin when pushing on ingot of metal climbed ~100 feet in "a few moments" so let's estimate 3 seconds (she has enough time to realize she is slowing down, and observe how the steel-line is getting fainter), so 30 meters in about 3 seconds, while continuously pushing. To travel the same distance in the same time would require only partial Lashing of strength ~0.67 Earth gravity. (of course the difference being that the greatest speed for Windrunner would be at the end, whereas for Mistborn it would be at the start). If the Gravitation-user wanted to replicate exactly the outcome for Mistborn, they could simply use Lashing of 1.3 Earth gravity for first 1.5 seconds, and then just revert the direction of that lashing. This suggests that Gravitation user can replicate the strength of pushes/pulls for movement purposes, and can do so quite easily in fact.

Ah, you would be correct. I mis-remembered that, apologies. So Scadrial-Kal would have even greater speed advantage, hmm with only Shardblade I would probably give him a win in that case. Without shards, the healing and tanking a hit can still help (weapon getting lodge in opponent, 'Sheathing the sword' move as in WoT). Yep, though with sufficient speed advantage and precision hit to the spine would end even Stormligh-Kal I think. But I am not sure if pewter alone would provide sufficient advantage. I think it is sort-of both? She is unusually strong, however for pewter that does not seem to make that much difference as the WoB implies generality of 2-3x strength improvement. I expect that Lerasium Mistborn would not have that much of a strength-improvemetn over regular Mistborn (e.g. lerasium mistborn would be at best 3-4 instead of 2-3), from the same argument as above. After this discussion I would adjust my answers a bit: No shards: Stormlight-Kal wins. While they are considerably weaker, and a bit slower, they can afford to tank a hit to go for a killing blow (i.e. spine, head, heart, etc.), which grants them great advantage. 'Sheathing the sword' technique from WoT basically. Shardblade only: Pewter-Kal wins, question mark? Stormlight-Kal can no longer easily tank a hit, as even a severed limb would take a moment to heal, and a hit to spine could still kill them (if I remember right). Here, the edge in speed could give Pewter-Kal a chance to kill Stormlight-Kal with a good single hit. I'd say 60-70% win chance for Pewter-Kal. Shardplate only: Stormlight-Kal wins, their plate can heal much longer, and physical attributes are now basically the same between the two. Shardplate+Shardblade: Stormlight-Kal wins, same reasoning as above. Edit: Well, at least we know that what Kal can do is internally consistent

The sacred texts! I think they are still working out mainly the conversion among different Investiture types and then how that translates to energy. But it is good to know that they have some general idea of how much do different things take Thanks for that WoB!

That is good to know Sometimes it is overly easy to focus on the disagreements and not on the parts others agree on. I agree! I would love to finally have solid numbers on how Investiture intesive different Invested arts are, conversion factors etc. It would make these discussion so much more fun! And also more focused because we would have actual numbers, instead of trying to get numbers from books scenes which were not intended to be used that way

But from what we know Kaladin is not an outlier in his usage of Stormlight alone. He has weird things happening in highstorm and in the duel in arena (the atium like effect), but so far no-one brought those up. Also on Vin and pewter, others speculate that her feats are due to her small size and low weight, something which would not be the case for Kaladin. Hm, good point on being lighter on his feet for Scadrian-Kal. Now, I think Stormlight will help to Rosharan-Kal to not be hindered by the added 'weight' as much. We do have example of Bridge 4 squire running with full gear as if without it (speed wise). Still though, it would help Scadrial-Kal being additional bit more faster. Still don't think it would make a difference in any situation involving shards. Yeah, but moving 25% faster is far different from moving 2x or even 3x times as fast. And Stormlight is mentioned to help with speed at least a bit as well. So you end up with Pewter-Kal being ~15% faster then Stormlight-Kal, which is not that much. Add in that Stormlight-Kal can heal, and they can choose to tank a hit that would allow them to strike a killing blow. An opponent who can choose to get hit without much issue has great advantage.

Good question, we don't know? Though Lashing a person once is trivial, and even Szeth does that multiple times. Living creatures resist Investiture more, so they should take more Stormlight to Lash than rocks, and considering the weight difference, taking a rock that weights 200 gram and putting in it 50 Lashings should take about 1/7 as much Stormlight as Lashing full grown person. Assuming that additional Lashings don't take more Stormlight, however no such mention is made anywhere in book. So Lashing a rock 50 times is 'easy' and not that expansive. I think Radiant's best way to win is to just tank the coins, close the distance and cut Mistborn with their shapeshifting Shardblade. Windrunner needs to land a single good hit.

No, terminal velocity is just dependant on the acceleration of object and on air pressure. Windrunner can increase the former (stacking lashings), and reduce the later(adhesion for manipulating pressure), for achieving great speeds. No, the highest speed was moving ahead of Highstorm, at ~370 mph. It is more that doing so would not be practical in most fights, so there is no reason to do that. They can still move around faster, and maneuver better than Mistborn can, even when being subsonic.

Vin is also an outlier, and her feats with pewter consistently surprise other Mistborn and other Pewter-arms. Speed of regular galloping horse is comparable or slightly beyond human sprinting speed, it is not anywhere near doubled. Pewter arms are nowhere described as inhumanly fast as far as I know. I do think pewter does have edge in speed over stormlight, but it is not by that much. Shardplate improves speed, agility and reflexes of wearer (on top of the great strength boost). It works sort-of like powered armor. So I don't think pewter-burner would maintain any speed edge in that scenario. Interesting question. Pewter-Kal is shorter but stronger, Stormlight-Kal is taller with better reach, however a bit weaker. I think with deadplate/deadblade situation nothing would really change, without Shards I would think Pewter-Kal would have greater advantage then otherwise. With only deadblade Stormlight-Kal maintains advantage and improves it a little bit, as reach is important and strength less so.

A small rock (~200 grams) would have terminal velocity around ~120 m/s if lashed 3 times, which it would reach in about 4 seconds (so it would probably hit far before reaching this speed). We do see that stacking lashings increases speed? Kaladin does it in WoR in arena fight, and repeatedly mentions it as advantage Windrunners have over Honorable Ones, who cannot lash themselves multiple times. Additionally, Windrunners have Surge of Adhesion, allowing them to manipulate pressure for even higher speeds. Additional, Windrunenrs can in principle travel between planets! https://wob.coppermind.net/events/450/#e14436 So Windrunners can overcome escape velocity which is around ~11km/s. So yeah, Windrunner could break sound barrier, easily. And how fast are the coins Mistborn fire? They are not faster then gunshots, and they are not supersonic either. They can be blocked by simple wooden shields, so they are not moving all that fast. There is no such things as 'speed of falling', how fast the rock will be moving will depend only on two things, 1) How many lashings were applied 2) Distance of Mistborn and Radiant. The greater the distance, the faster the rock will move, and the more lashings the faster the rock will move. Edit: Effectively, larger distance also benefits Radiant, because their projectiles can move faster and hit in very short time. If they are ~20 meters apart, 200 gram rock Lashed 5x times will be accelerating at ~50 m/s^2 (Earth gravity) and it would cover the distance in ~0.9 second having speed at the end of ~ 45 m/s (160 km/h). The same rock lashed 10x times will be accelerating at ~100 m/s^2, would cover the distance in 0.6 seconds and hit at ~60 m/s. If you double the distance to ~40 meters, at 5x lashings it would take ~1.2 seconds to cover and it would hit at 60 m/s (216 km/h) For 10x lashings the rock would hit in 0.89 seconds and move at ~89 m/s (320 km/h). And there is no upper limit on the amount of lashings (outside of amount of Stormlight). I don't think Mistborn have good enough reflexes to dodge rock moving at hundreds of kilometers per hour, that is also constantly accelerating on top of that.

Pewter is only confirmed to 2-3 strength, not all the other physical attributes. What is shown in books is relatively consistent with being able to maintain top human characteristic for longer stretches of time (i.e. sprint without tiring for hours), and not much improvement in speed on a whole. The agility and balance improvements are similar for Stormlight, though we don't have direct comparison. Lift is sometimes given as counterpoint to agility enhancements of Stormlight, however she is actually using Lifelight, so different effects can be expected. So I would say pewter burner is far stronger, and a bit faster, agility/balance about on par, and heal far worse then someone holding Stormlight. Given same hourly-amount I think Pewter-Kal would have a mild advantage, but it is difficult to say. Stormlight-Kal could heal snapped neck, Pewter-Kal could not for example. I think all the others would go to Stormlight-Kal, as Pewter-Kal has no way to heal Shardblade wounds, and no way to regenerate plate. I don't see how pewter-Kal would have advanate, his Shardplate cannot heal at all, whereas Kal with Stormlight can heal his. Additionally, Shardplate improves strength far beyond Pewter, so there is a question if the pewter would do anything at all. Pewter-Kal would get locked in plate (if deadplate), or would have to dismiss his plate (if living plate) far sooner than Stormlight-Kal.

I mean 5-6 weeks PTO is relatively normal in most advanced countries, and on top of that you have months of paternity leave and months/years of maternity leave. And those economies still function and even thrive, so parts of work force leaving for extended time is not really an issue. And for pre-industrial society that would be even less so. Why? They obviously are not going extinct, and their population levels are typically increasing over-time (Last Legion numbers vs Listener population). So clearly, there are enough of singers that want to have children. Additionally, other forms are not necessarily infertile, they just have very low fertility

You can draw beads of given object to you, we see Shallan do this in Oathbringer, and I think Jasnah as well in flashbacks. (though I would need to double check) They are also drawn to Investiture, so it should be possible to find them. The maximum speed of Gravitation user is just terminal velocity for given acceleration, so the only limit is 1) Durability of body 2) Amount of Stormlight. And point 1. is not relevant for 4th and Higher. Windrunners could also speed up even higher and faster, as they can manipulate pressure through Adhesion, so they could accelerate until as needed. Also recall that there are reverse lashings to make things miss (though this would be risky move). And yeah, jet in air would be superior to Windrunners and Skybreakers. But the second it has to land, it has big issues. (you know, Soulcast the runway to liquid tar for example). But those satelittes cannot observe the entire surface of Earth 24/7, you need to pick and choose locations to observe. Which against enemy that can drop out of thin air (Transportation from CR) and possibly teleport, is of limited value.

Per the diagram on Inquisitors and notes from HoA the lynchpin spike does not grant powers, only serves to tie them together. Spikes in other hemalurgic construct don't necessarily grant powers, so it makes sense. Per this they were unable to actually do it (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/98/#e850), even with Ruin possibly pushing them towards it. But like you said who knows. Thought from what I remember Marsh did not display anything that could not be explained by ordinary Feruchemy or being directly fueled by Ruin. Thank you If I remember correctly Inquisitors controlling the Koloss was done under direction of Ruin, as a trap, as he wanted Elend and Vin to take them over and keep them close so he could reassert control (as he does near the end). So I would say that part is not actually suggestive of their 'natural' abilities.

Soulcasting can apparently transform objects even from CR (deleted chapter of Jasnah), which makes complete sense as Soulcasting requires partial move to CR to convince/bribe cognitive aspect of object to change. If you are already in CR you can just initiate contact from there. So boosted by Bondsmith they could soulcast air to poison for example, or planes/ships to different metals. They could effectively cripple any and every tool anyone on Earth has, and the only thing that could stop them would be full Aluminum plating (most likely), which however no one on Earth knows (outside of us of course).

Similar to Vin but lesser, as she was unusually strong for Era 1 allomancer. Hence Marsh even with double bronze is also weaker than Lerasium Mistborn like Elend, as Lerasium Mistborn could potentially do things (i.e. break into hemalurgic constructs) for which Vin Duralumin. Ah, apologies the eye spikes do grant powers as well, though the lynch-pin spike does not. So Marsh has 14 powers (4 feruchemical + 10 allomantic) that we know of, 1 spike is lynchpin spike, which leaves 6 spikes for doubling other powers granted by spikes (or adding further powers, most likely feruchemical). Already inborn power + spike is weaker than inborn power of Lerasium Mistborn (see amount of Koloss Vin can take over vs Elend), and thanks to Hemalurgic decay spike+spike would be weaker than inborn+spike. So outside of his feruchemy, all of Marshes allomancy is weaker than Elend's. On compounding, was Marsh doing it? Other Inquisitors weren't (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/98/#e850). Or did he figure it out later? Inquisitors were not taught that by Lord Ruler (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/246/#e5484) and it does require some figuring out to learn it (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/98/#e850). So Marsh might not have had Compounding actually available to him at that point as he lacked the understanding necessary to make it work. At the time of Era 1 Lerasium Mistborn would be stronger than Inquisitor with 2 A-steel spikes. Spiked power is weaker than what the spiked person was capable of (Hemalurgic decay), and Vin (unusually strong for Era 1) + earring was still weaker than early Allomancers as she needed Duralumin to take over Hemalurgic constructs, when back then that was not necessary (though it required some skill). So two weakend Era 1 powers in spikes would still be weaker in raw power then Lerasium Mistborn, I would expect. EDIT: Additionally, Elend could in principle brute-force through copperclouds (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/73/#e4303), something which Vin was able to do only thanks to earring. That alone would suggest that unusually strong natural power + spike can be about on par with Lerasium Mistborn, which further suggests that 2 regular spikes would be most likely weaker. (because of Hemalurgic decay and regular mistings being weaker than Vin so spikes made out of them being weaker even for this reason).