BenduLuke

Like I said my scale could be way off.

As i think about it I don't think it is the gem stones that get cracked and broken. Instead it is the glass spheres they are encased in.

you can push on the radioactive metal particles and use them to split the radioactive metal sphere. Illumination can do the strait up gamma Laser or Maser and everything in between. The bombers in Japan weren't faster than light either and they got away after dropping the bomb, steel compounders can detonate at sufficient distance and run faster than the bombers that dropped the A bombs. The Fusion laser trick would almost certainly take an Iron compounder since they would probably need the extreme mass they could produce and the leverage that would give them to fuse Hydrogen (Technically a metal). Iron compounders could have the density of Lead through compounded Iron-F. Their iron body armor used as their metal mind would have some radiation resistance. No need to change skin it would be as dense as lead for as long as they needed it to be. Iron compoounding = near unlimited density for as long as needed. The British were better supplied, but didn't have more technically advanced weapons. When we compare Roshar with Scadrial technologically we are comparing Camelot with WWI Britain respectively. The tactics are also that disparate. Scadrians could reign artilery on the Rosharans trying to cross that altered terrain and would be better at locating them magically while doing so. The artillery would also alter the terrain. With projectile weapons flyers are less of a threat.

I am glad you mentioned Lasers being a potential Illumination power. It seems to me that Scadrial will develop Lasers first and it will be the Coinshots and Lurchers using them. The most effective and likely to use them safely will be Steel compounders and Iron Compounders. Once Scadrial discovers Heavy and Space age metals, which could be soon, a coinshot can use the radiation inherant in the metal to make lasers. It would probably take an Iron compounder to make a Laser as Lurchers would need to do it differently. Crush Hydrogen in to fusion and reflect and focus that energy off a Berylium mirror at your target and you have a multi spectrum laser. Hydrogen is a metal so able to be manipulated by a Lurcher. Laser are not a useful and we would hope since they have no stopping power, must be used in line of sight, and effectively only burn through things. A maser would be more useful since any bags of mostly water would likely explode from the Inside out. I was thinking about which order of radiant would be most effective with EM Weapons like Lasers and finaly decided it would be Light weavers since they could soul cast something flammable that they could ignite with a laser. A steel compounder would leave that in the dust though. They could push a radioactive sphere like Uranium or Plutonium into an army well away from them and ignite it with a laser produce from additional radioactive material. Using their ability to push on metal they could shield themselves from the radioactive material they were carrying and they could burn the feruchemically charged steel to give them the speed to escape the atomic or nuclear blast they ignited. Can a Radiant Survive a nuclear blast? All this came from you mentioning that Lightweavers can use Lasers. Scadrians don't need to alter terrain, though they clearly will have that ability at some point (See above), since they have tech that can better take advantage of altered terrain. Roshar's art of war is based on medievil terrain tactics which wouldn't survive an engagement with modern weapons. The brits and americans were at roughly the same tech level so terrain being a factor doesn't say anything. Altered terrain favors Scadrian's more. A person like an Iron compounder who could have the density of lead would be resistant to virtually all radiation. I would think that would be obvious. What more evidence do you need? I think perhaps that Truthwatchers will develop Lasers on Roshar first because of how people like Renarin use light as compared to Shallon, but Lightweavers will have more spectacular displays once they develop the ability. I think Truthwatchers will use their em pulses martially in ways to more subtly destroy their opponents like creating cancers. Lasers can also be used for cutting, so laser surgery anyone? Reflective surfaces could stop Illumination lasers, but perhaps not coinshot lasers. Sonic attacks are another devastating attack possible to Illumination surgers to consider in a conflict. Thanks to all of you and others i have an idea how reverse compounding might work. The most obvious example to start with is the Tin compounder. They can burn tin and store their senses in various tin minds, or they can burn a tin mind with a specific sense to compound that sense and it doesn't need matter how they start to store senses. Pewter compounders work nearly the same since they can start by storing strength or by getting strength from burning pewter first then compounding on that from there. So what if a compounder has such a strong spirtual connection to their metal that they can store an allomancy surge such as coin pushing in steel just like they can store speed in steel then tap it feruchemically later? That is possible with both tin and pewter. Tin can store senses from the burning of any allomantic metal, and Pewter can potentially charge aspects of several Feruchemical metals. I don't see that kind of synergy in Radiant magic.

yes and over time as they mix with regular people they dilute the genes for allomancy. TLR was only mildly interested in restricting mistings. It is just obvious to me that they were using military tactics, but if you don't see it, you don't see it. yes and Kaladin's flying was better, and Jasna's soul casting was better, so Renarin is especially talented at progression. Great at some point they may have lasers and kill themselves trying to use them, but not yet, not even intuitively possible for them yet. I see KR's making anti-voidlight first since Navani discovered it and so if Shallon and Navani discuss that discovery the idea occurring to them. Changing topography does little to stop coinshots, windrunners, or skybreakers. Seekers and Tineyes would have and give an advantage over other earthbound people. Ambushes set up by Scadrian's in altered terain would be more effective than those of Rosharan's (if you can't see why that is you need to think on it more). besides how much ground can really be changed? Oh an Iron compounder would potentially be resistant to even gamma lasers. At this point we have pre-WWI tech and tactics on Scadrial vs Medievil tech and tactics on Roshar with some tweaks coming from magic on both. Raw one on one power usually goes to Roshar and in a virtually hand to hand engagement they almost always win, but that advantage switches with combined and ranged tactics. Lines of Rosharans would likely be wiped out en mass by Gatling guns, explosives, artillery, and guerrilla tactics. Roshar is only just starting to realize that their medievil military doctrine will need to change now that Radiants are a reality. At this point it will come as a big surprise if Fused, Regals, Windrunners, and Skybreakers get knocked out of the air by a few concealed foes even if those foes have no individual power themselves. Tineyes, willshapers, and pewter arms would all make excellent marksmen or modern soldiers of any kind. @The Technovore Just remember there is no article I have seen on Iron compounding, not even the coppermind references it, and so far we have only seen the results of Iron-F or Iron-A separately. Wax regularly stored half his weight when ever he was awake so he was storing 100 to 125 lbs / second, minute, or hour that he tapped regularly for improved allomancy. Tapping at more than one to one actually yields a loss in terms of what can be tapped. In other words some of the weight is lost if he taps it faster than he stored it like with all feruchemy. A compounder can store at a much higher rate and can tap almost all the stored attribute near instantly. A Pewter compounder who tapped their stored strength would be huge or even titanic. The punch from an Iron compounder tapping weight would have massive force in a small surface area with the proportional bone density to withstand the impact. I suspect that could shatter shardplate sections driving them into the Radiant or even punch right through the radiant in shardplate entirely. Not sure how long a radiant could withstand that kind of punishment, and if they had metal on their person they could be yanked back for more time and again. Iron is also relatively inexpensive so is readily available to use.

TLR would have restricted breeding effective metal born just like Feruchemists. To me the Vanisher and Set tactics were obviously modern military. I know you have been saying those are underworld tactics but those tactics are inherited military tactics. Even the constable tactics are modern military tactics. Just because the stories don't include a military doesn't mean there isn't one and the military has more advanced tactics than the medievil tactics of Roshar simply because their weapons are far more advanced. No Renarin's oath level gave him an increased healing ability just like it does with all orders. Where has illumination been shown to create laser cannons? Who's speculating with minimal support now? Cohesiion, Transformation, and Tension are also difficult to use against invested things and people. Besides they do as much or more to inhibit their allies than they do their enemies. Wax didn't get any larger when he tapped weight, but his density increased. Gravity is all about density (mass/volume) and there is no comment on compounding Iron. Logically if a persons density is high enough in the roughly 5 to 6 ft diameter that they occupy they would exert a measurable increase in gravity. A skimmer might not be able to store enough weight to make a measurable difference, but if one could compound that through allomancy the only limit would be just how much density could be stored in a metal mind. Eventually with enough density they would be resistant to penetration and would have massive strength perhaps even more than could be achieved through pewter compounding. Below I will include the Iron coppermind. https://coppermind.net/wiki/Iron Fully Invested metalminds have been said to be able to block shard blades. How much weight do you think you could store in full Iron Body Armor when Wax could store enough weight to crash through a floor with only 1 or 2 Iron arm bands? With some application of Lurcher abilities that armor might be able to operate similar to modern robotic armor. Allomantic pulls are much stronger than muscle power and multiplied by the right levers inside the armor that the Lurcher could pull on alternately would make for allomancy powered armor suits. they could even have projectile launchers installed that are allomancy powered. Some of those same projectiles if they missed could be brought back to hit the KR in the back or to reload. The increased mass would mean being able to absorb massive recoil so the projectiles could be launched at insane speeds. Iron Feruchemy actually does increase mass it is in the coppermind description. The spirit web is not mentioned. As your calc's showed the amount of mass to make even a little difference is huge, well beyond what has already been shown. Wax had to store weight as he moved around and could only store so much at a time. The scale potential of an Iron compounder is potentially mind blowing. it is density (mass/volume) that they store in the metalmind. With enough tapped density it is logical that their skin and muscle would begin to function like metal and become highly resistant to damage. With enough density they could become resistant to radiation as well. There is the potential that they could become extremely conductive. The number and type of potential abilities an Iron compounder might be able to develop could make them both versatile and dangerous in all kinds of martial situations. Remember we haven't seen an Iron compounder only vanilla Iron Feruchemy which is end neutral. Compounding is exponential according to harmon x10 postive. 1x to 10x to 100x and so on up to the max storage capacity of the Metal mind. More metal = more capacity. Also remember that F-Iron comes with proportional strength, and in addition one of the limits to metal pushes and pulls is the mass available to you. The more mass you have access to the stronger your pulls can be. Yes I am radically speculating to the extremes. It is just to fun to extrapolate into the extreme possibilities of this type of compounder given what we do know about it and applying the results consistent with our natural world and its laws.

Breeding for magical abilities is what the Set were trying to do. Getting a full mistborn through breeding would likely take many generations of breeding, but getting specific metal abilities could be accomplished much sooner. The best and quickest results would be by breeding twinborns. Though I did say it might work like genetic memory instead of pure genetics. Ok sighting sources fair enough. I get that you like =/= but it is a bit confusing and inaccurate, and please, please check your spelling it can be very confusing and distracting. They would have a military because they live in a culture of city states with shifting alliances. The military tactics evident in the conflicts in era 2 are post civil war tactics which were adopted by the criminal underworld. Many of those surge uses you mention as obvious have limited effect on other invested beings. Adhesion: Shardplate cannot be stuck in place so mistborn, mistings could probably at least resist it same goes for other surges. Progression is a great after battle skill to return allies, but in direct combat it is too resource and time intensive. Illumination countered by bronze, copper, and aluminum to name a few and does not deal direct damage except perhaps against fused now. In addition to that most surges don't work at a distance and so are of limited tactical value in a conflict between Scadrians and Rosharans. What will be interesting is when we learn how compounding works in reverse such that Feruchemy enhances Allomancy. Tin or Pewter might be the first compound pairs that this will be worked out with. Perhaps Iron too since increasing weight increases attraction and lurchers are about metal attraction. I still wonder if an Iron compounder could become so dense, massive, heavy that they could be extremely resistant to damage. Iron pulls so strong that they can virtually pull on even shards. Perhaps even becoming massive enough to affect the flow of time around them and certainly massive enough that any exposed metal on the KR bringing them into close combat range. With the proportional strength the ability to overwhelm shard plate and or healing. (broken shard plate drains stormlight fast as does traumatic injury). They could lighten and pull themselves to the KR then become massively heavy crushing and immobilizing the KR. The massive investiture they might have could potentially resist damage from a shard blade just like their metal minds can, and their metal mind could be an entire suit of Iron armor granting additional protection. They might even be like a cross between Magneto and Colosus with much more pulling power, mass, and density. The real limit to an Iron compounders ability would be how much weight can they really store in their suit of armor. Could they store enough weight to give them the effective weight to volume to have the density of a planet, star, white dwarf, newtron star, or even a black hole. We know that Wax had enough weight stored in just his bands to crash through a solid floor and he wasn't an iron compounder. In my wildest dreams that could be a very dangerous opponent to KR's. They might be able to pull Windrunners and Skybreakers right out of the sky and earth fused right out of the ground. One other thing I was thinking that the most martially capable order are the Skybreakers with surges of both gravitation and division, both of which have significant martial potential. High ground, mobility and destruction at a distance all in one.

Regardless of the WOB the books seem to work mostly like regular genetics. Perhaps the difference is that it works more like genetic memory. Instead of including a quote that contradicted what you said just admitting that you misrepresented the idea would have been sufficient for accuracy. Just a suggestion on your short hand =/= does not mean not equal. the short had for that is != both mathematically and in programming. Gravitation requires contact where metal manipulations does not. At least so far. You are right that gravitation is effective on more things so long as you can touch them. Vin survived many near death situations pre-Kel also without trying or being aware of what she was doing. Not sure how much of either Kal's or Vin's survival is due to plot armor instead of actual abilities. Just because the stories in era 2 Scadrial don't focus on the military doesn't mean there is none, and clearly there are modern military tactics in era 2 books involving guns and explosives by both the antagonists and protagonists. You make a big assumption when you think that Scadrial has no military's just because the stories are focused on civilians, especially since there are obvious military weapons and tactics. Most surges are pointless for confrontation as well. Most orders don't even have their most effective surges until later as well. Kal (perhaps the most effective combatant) had limited healing and later reverse lashing in the beginning so would have been dead meat to a coinshot or thug at the time. A seeker would have singled him out as the main threat and eliminated him asap. A tineye marksman could have eliminated him from a distance. And he is one of the best combatants in Roshar so far. Post WoR the opponents likely to challenge him are much fewer. Other orders are not near as martial as his so are even more vulnerable for longer. @LewsTherinTelescope My point was that virtually having abilities from birth they are likely to be very familiar with their use by the time they enter a conflict. Few Radiants are likely to get into a fight with a child, Nale maybe but he is insane. @The Technovore I suspect that Shallon could produce anti-voidlight on her own once Navani shows her what it is. Lightweaving does produce light and sound. Pair her with a Bronze compounder and you have a lethal pair against most invested beings.

Your ideas on genetics are unsupported. Why quote Brandon when it doesn't support your position? Another unsupported idea. All Allomancers started with ingesting Lerasium and became full mistborn in the begining with TLR. Their descendants are the allomancers of era 1 and 2. Those are the circumstances. Oh I don't know Steel can be mixed with many other metals to give a person many other abilities. Of course the other metals can be mixed as well vastly increasing potentially effective combinations. Use your imagination. I have thousands of pages to reference that imply the vast scientific advantage of Scadrial over most if not all of the Cosmere. That is if you have the imagination and foundation to recognize the implications. Investiture of any kind affects soul casting so soul casting in a contest is potentially unreliable. I beg to differ. Scadrial has experience with relatively modern weapons and Roshar is still using Renaissance tactics at best. I don't think KR's are as interchangeable as you think. who needs a Fullborn. Haven't you noticed most of my proposals are not about them. Target any new radiant and they die quick. I think it is you who haven't been paying attention. Scadrian's have a much vaster range of abilities compared to Rosharan's, and are already using more modern military tactics. Swords and picket lines vs Guns, Guns win almost every time. And the tactics are vastly different. @The Technovore I like the oil soul casting, but consider a brass compounder could potentially have dealt with that directly. A chromium compounder might have been in just the right place to stop Jasna in the first place. Look I mainly take the Scadrian side because I don't think the contest is cut and dried even one on one. @Frustration ranked what he feels is a hierarchy, but even that leaves out many potential combinations. Glad to see Steel twins are ranked high, but that combination might be more potent that full mistborn in many situations. Most people in a contest KR or Mistborn would lack martial experience and would potentially be at a disadvantage. In addition many surges and metalborn powers lack direct martial applications so would lead to other disadvantages. I like the attempt at the math though I don't know how accurate it is either. One thing to consider is that most of the Rosharan advantages don't occur until after the 2nd (gravitation) or 3rd (blade) ideal and the the most significant advantage to date (shard plate) is at 4th ideal of which there are only 2 examples so far. (Kaladin and Jasna). Metal born have full abilities virtually from birth so are potentially more effective with their specific abilities some of which do have highly effective martial applications like steel and pewter. I find it amusing imagining a Chromium compounder in a conflict. Someone who is potentially in the right place, at the right time, doing the right thing to defeat anyone, and doing it seemingly by accident. Bink from Xanth, Jackie Chan, Inspector Gaget like character. And if that person had real martial training, Yikes!!!.

You mean like the unsupported speculation you just engaged in. Your quote proves nothing only that Allomancy and Feruchemy are recessive traits. Which Identitical twins had different metals? No house started with a specific metal. All houses had all metals in their genes. Same goes for all Terris men. Even if identical twins manifested different metals that could simply be a function of cirumstances activating the different metals in their potential. (Allomancy requires activation not just genetic potential) All descendants of allomancers or feruchemists have the potential to manifest any metal and it is possible that circumstance determine which potential metal is activated. Assuming that my speculation is unsupported is disingenuous of you. It is not my fault that you missed what I recognized in the Cosmere that you didn't. I find this idea that Shards make a person invulnerable to be over estimating them. It has been shown that KR's are vulnerable and only the Windrunners or potentially Skybreakers have been shown to have advanced abilities for combat so assuming that Radiants could most likely win is unsupported in most cases. Damaged shardplate has been shown to drain massive amounts of Stormlight and Kal almost got killed because of it in WOR. Healing can be countered by strikes to the right location or by the right material. Shard blades can be blocked by the right materials and can be inhibited by the right abilities. So defend how the magics of the various orders would stand up to potential Scadrian abilities if you can. All the ideas I have put forward for the various twins are supported by the Scadrian tables of metals and abilities, and most are not far fetched. Admittedly my speculation of the abilities for Aluminum twins though possible based on the charts are potentially incorrect but fun to speculate on. Other than that one speculation category my ideas are very supportable and plausible. Some like steel twin compounders and Chromium twin compounders are direct quotes from the coppermind. So support how Rosharan magic is superior because from my perspective the shear variety and versatility makes Scadrian magic tips the scales towards them over all in nearly every circumstance. what in particular can Rosharans do that cannot be countered by Scadrians? How do Rosharans cope with the vast array of tactics available to Scadrian's? In addition Scadrian magic lends itself to a vast array of scientific development and advancement, more so than any other planet in the cosmere which provides another indirect advantage to Scadrian Magic. In all likelihood Scadrian's would find it far easier to incorporate and or counter Rosharan science than the other way around. Brute strength (Rosharan's only advantage) only goes so far in a conflict with a foe that has a vastly larger range of abilities, and tactics.

@The Technovore @Frustration @StanLemon @LewsTherinTelescope Both allomancy and feruchemy act like recessive genetic traits which can be breed for. Both voidlight and anti-voidlight resist being added to the same gem or even coming into close proximity so trying to create a working predictable grenade out of them is at best probleimatic. yes I did get Raboniel and Lash's names switched sorry for the confusion, but at least you knew who I was trying to say. Anti-voidlight works better as a biological weapon, not really as a predictable explosive. Now that I think about it Shallon could probably produce anti-voidlight using her surges once Navani teaches her how to make it. Many of you complain about me speculating and yet it seems as if many of your responses are simply your own speculation on how the Cosmere works. Yes i have been reviewing the books again I guess I just have a different perspective on what I read than you do.

Yes intuition is influenced by Luck. Luck is a cross temporal ability. Hoid didn't know why he was there just that he needed to be. Khriss was trying to learn sand magic and obviously her entries in Ars Archanum take place after WS and the Silver light academy. Something exists between the planets or he could have gone further. Distance also doesn't correlate between CR and Physical. Besides Kel was for all intents an invested cognative construct so not getting tired or sleeping (physical responses and limitations) wouldn't apply to him. Do your realize that you said Kel couldn't leave the Scadrian system? He was highly invested so if he couldn't what kind of person could? Adolin piggy backed on Shallon and or other invested people, he couldn't get there himself and being non invested was at great risk more so if he had been alone. Potentially powerful under the right conditions yes. Difficult to use without extreme risk to the user. Worse than using nitro glycerin, but also not always explosive. Outside of a pressurized gem they fiz like gun powder at worst, and not all that violently. Lash and her daughter just fizzled away no explosions involved so it is unreliable as an explosive and likely to kill or injure the one who uses it. Because it is not totally predictable and extremely hazardous to the user its not useful. Anti voidlight was used on the Sybling with no explosive effects as well to neutralize the voidlight corruption.

Vaccination where? Sanitation seems relatively equivalent across the cosmere. Era 1 Scadrial has Vaccination too. didn't see where it is known as forsight except supposedly implied by Odium and looked up the reference without luck to confirm it. Khriss could also be a sand caster. She likely was in every off Taldain interaction with perhaps other magics. How could she even get to or survive in the Cognitive Realm without significant investiture? No Khriss is almost certainly very invested. Weeks is still much shorter than the years it would take to cross a planet on foot or to other planets using FTL. Kel still hasn't gone to Roshar yet and perhaps never left Scadrial CR. Voidlight explostions are not a developed resource yet. Yes Navani caused it accidentally once and was aware enough to realize that it could happen again in Lash's tests. The explosion only happens when both are under pressure, not particularly useful as a grenade, artillery, or demolition. So not explosives tech. Lash didn't explode when her void light mixed with its anti so not reliable for explosives.

Yeah Mark Twain is one of my favorite authors and Connecticut Yankee one of my favorite books. How do you Justify Roshar having more advanced medicine? I included a link to Copperminds Chromium and in terms of Feruchemy fortune is Luck in that context. Gold and Electrum are the Time viewing metals of era 2. How rare twins might be doesn't matter only that it is possible. Eugenics could solve the rarity issue. https://coppermind.net/wiki/Chromium There is a good chance that Khriss is invested given her age and knowledge of magics. We also don't know when she is writing the Ars Archanum entries. I never said there were world hoppers from every world so it is no surprise that First of the Sun seems not to have any. I don't remember Roshar having explosives could you give me an example? What makes you say you need to walk across an entire planet to world hop? Do mean to get to a perpendicularity to enter Shadesmar? Does one need to walk across an entire planet once in Shadesmar? From my reading neither seems to be the case. I am also not sure it does take weeks for everyone to get off planet. So machine guns are either already there or soon will be. Good point. I think that Scadrial advances so quickly in science because their magic is metal based. That means they inherently have an understanding of metallurgy. Their abilities are also strongly within ordinary natural laws lending an innate understanding of physics. With those understandings all kinds of natural science and engineering follow. Rosharan magic on the other hand is abstract and subverts natural laws so may even impede scientific progress. Scadrian magic and science works everywhere, but Rosharan magic and science is much harder to implement anywhere else. So I think only on Roshar do Rosharan's consistently have any advantage, everywhere else Scadrians have the advantage.

@Lesser sprenI would say 1 breath is the most basic unit of investiture above life itself. Perhaps everyone in the Cosmere has a minimum of two breaths of which one can never be given away. In other words all other investiture can be measured in terms of multiples of breaths. On Roshar the basic unit is 1 diamond chip which may hold say 10 breaths of investiture or maybe even 100 (unlikely). Metal flakes on Scadrial probably do have the equivalent of 100 breaths (solids hold more investiture than gas) and perhaps Dor is on the scale of Brohms (1,000's of breaths). Forgery or sand in the scale of 10's of breaths. Of course I could be way off.

Almost all the engagements use modern guerrilla tactics with semi modern weapons. Mass can be increased with armor which Thugs could use due to their greater strength. In addition a thugs strength would enable them to take a stance capable of handling the recoil of heavy arms and given their enhancement in all their physical abilities they could have incredible accuracy. No fire arms on Roshar vs Cartrige weapons on Scadrial. Roshar at approximately 10th century vs Scadrial at 19th century tech based on arms technology. I quoted the coppermind on Fortune and it says Luck not future sight. Future sight is associated with other metals. It seems the only world hoppers are people who have investiture and certainly need someone invested to make the attempt. Which Rosharan's have ever World hopped? None that I know of. I have no evidence that even after SA 5 that any invested person will leave Roshar, but I have evidence from Brandon's comments that Scadrial will develop FTL which would be utterly useless if world hopping ever became convenient. Hoid may be one of the only individuals who could retain a Spren, of course I did say as much in my previous comment. Mental speed paired with F-Copper or given to someone with the appropriate education does equal knowing what you are doing. != is the symbol for not equal not =/=. Besides a Rioter/Sparker could learn anything incredibly fast and with application could retain the knowledge. Their limit wouldn't be how fast they can learn but how fast they can get access to information. @The Technovore Einstein didn't design the A bomb, but he did develop the theory behind it. Navani is like a physicist expanding on existing knowledge like sound theory, but she was guided by the fused in that understanding or simply found new ways to apply existing fabrial abilities. Renett an engineer did much the same thing, but the level of Tech and understanding is much higher. Put Renett on Roshar and she would be like The Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court, and there really is about that level of Technological difference between Roshar and Scadrial. Also Renett's expertise is in armaments at a higher tech level where Navani's is far more general but at a lower tech level in terms of weapons. If Navani had someone who's specialty was in projectile weapons like Renett to apply her general knowledge then she could potentially compete with Renett, but Roshar is still decades to centuries behind Scadrial in terms of Technology. Consider what comes into play when developing prototype weapons. Physics, Material science, chemistry, balistics, mechanics, thermo dynamics, fluid dynamics, gas expansion, and any number of other factors, plus Renett also needs to consider magical effects of her world in her prototypes. It would take her only a small step to account for Rosharan magic and arms. @Frustration said that there is no evidence of Machine guns on Scadrial, but with cartridge weapons even if they don't have them it is a small step to develop them, and we know they have at least basic explosives so things like grenades are not far off either. I was thinking last night that comparing Scadrian magic and Rosharan magic is like trying to compare Mutants/metahumans with Lanterns. We see all kinds of divers abilities of varying strengths from strong to weak and everything in between on Scadrial like with mutants. Where on Roshar we see base abilities across orders with limited individual specialties within each order, but with a high energy fuel source like the spectrum of Lanterns or perhaps the Shazamily. With the potential variety of abilities on Scadrial there is the probability that there are Scadrians that no Rosharan can beat, and that many Rosharans can beat most Scadrians based entirely on their magic.

No there is evidence of mixed arms tactics. I didn't say it was warfare. No there is at least 100 years of more advanced tech on Scadrial in era 2 than Roshar era 1. Most thugs are pretty massive and even if they aren't they have the strength to carry more mass if necessary. There is not definitive statement of how F-chromium works, but we do know what it does so I am most likely right. Fortune is described as luck and anyone with a near infinite supply of luck would be nearly unbeatable even by atium. Feruchemical Use A chromium Ferring is known as a Spinner. Chromium is used to store Fortune. A Spinner filling a chromiummind will be unlucky, and can tap it to increase their luck. Compounding A chromium Compounder might be able to use chromium to have a nearly infinite supply of fortune and luck Some people have worked out how to go to Roshar from elsewhere, but no one has yet worked out how Rosharans can leave especially with spren or stormlight. Very few have been able to go to Roshar and no Rosharan has been shown to world hop anywhere else in the cosmere. We know there is a barrier that doesn't permit Rosharan investiture to leave also blocking most from world hopping to Roshar and there is no guarantee that it will be overcome before Scadrial has FTL. Scadrial is advancing very fast and will have FTL which would be pointless if became possible to world hop everywhere by all but a very few near Hoid like individuals. The people we do see world hopping are ones like Hoid who are highly invested from elsewhere, and even Hoid probably can't take the Spren with him though practically being a shard himself maybe HE can.

I would tend to agree with you. All the bones and muscles would grow and strengthen proportionally. Koloss have been shown to throw boulders and use thick trees as battering rams and yet both Vin and Elend have at times matched strength one on one with some of the largest of them. Not sure but imagining a Koloss swinging a tree like a baseball bat or charging with it like a lance and hitting a KR would probably hurt and do more than a little damage to the shard bearer. Someone like Vin who has access to better weapons and can use metal pushes and pulls to increase her leverage and momentum might be able to do much more damage.

Perhaps Roshar outclasses Scadrial in terms shear magical military force for some orders, but I think Scadrial outclasses Roshar in magical versatility and skill and isn't that far behind in shear military magic power. As for war turning Scadrian tech to war would be easier than trying to develop weapons from fragile fabrials. Scadrian era 2 already have more effective airships, fire arms, and projectile magics which will give them a huge advantage. Renett is much more advanced than Navani at developing weapons both technical and magical, and her weapons can take a beating. Scadrial already has modern military tactics evident from Alloy of Law forward evident in the tactics of the Vanishers and the Set. Koloss could wield those hammers the shard bearers use (some of their swords might be that heavy). I would propose that it isn't strength that they lack in comparison to Shard Bearers but agility, speed and regeneration. Given some of the feats Elend and Vin did I wouldn't put x30 beyond them, and Pewter doesn't just grant Strength, but all their physical abilities are increased as well to the same levels. Given the right weapons a Thug could stand up to most orders even of the 4th ideal. Windrunners and Skybreakers would have some advantage from the air, but a Thug marksman with a really big gun could potentially even level that advantage. (Pewter would grant amazing accuracy and ability to handle massive recoil) They really could pull a Rambo with a 50 cal. machine gun under each arm accurately. Aluminum alloy bullets, and game over radiant. Elend was practically a full on warrior by the end of Well. The weakness of the Koloss in that instance wasn't durability, but agility and regeneration. Shardplate is durable but has weak spots too. The right weapon, at the right time, in the right place would put down even a KR. A Chromium twin compounder would probably be able to do that 999 out of 1,000 times and would probably look like Jackie Chan doing it. @The Technovore I think it is more likely that Scadrial will develop FTL and reach Roshar before KR's will reach Scadrial. Scadrian investiture works everywhere without modification or conversion so they would have their full abilities where ever they go, but Rosharans would need to work to figure out how to make their abilities work elsewhere. If I am right that Scadrians will reach Roshar via FTL first the level of Tech they will have will most likely be at least decades and probably centuries more advanced than Rosharan tech. On other thing of note is that both Harmony and Thaidakar are aware of what is going on Roshar and are working to counter the possible threat. Of course I also think that by the end of SL era 1 Odium, Dalinar(Honor), and Cultivation will be allies and may be attempting to ally with at least Honor against other Shard Threats like Trell.

my mistake I listen not read the books. In addition to Koloss being strong and durable, Inquisitors could prove as much or more of a challenge than a KR. For that matter most orders of Radiants would be at a disadvantage to full Mistborn/Feruchemist, many mistings, feriings and twinborn combinations. Some of the leverage to use Koloss swords comes from Steel and Iron. Of course a complete enhancement coming from Pewter doesn't hurt either. Oh Rosharand fabrials are much more fragile than Scadrian fabrials and Rosharan weapons are much more limited than Scadrian weapons so either of those facts could decide a battle.

@Gisaku75 Navani may not hold a candle to Ranet when it comes to developing weapons In the last few days I have seen people arguing neutralizing power, and in this Scadrians have the advantage in my opinion because they have allomancers which can determine the proper tones to negate investiture using Bronze. In addition their aluminum tech is far more advanced than Roshar and aluminum is the anti investiture metal nullifying virtually any invested ability. Scadrial has also been shown to advance technologically much faster than Roshar since the death of TLR and projectiles are a natural outgrowth of having coinshots. Colos are presented as being very strong and durable and may be comparable to a Knight in shardplate so underestimating steel pushes is a mistake. Another challenging combination would be a Thug/Spinner. Always able to fight in just the right way having just the right weapons with the physical abilities to back them up. A thug archivist could be the most advanced warrior in existence storing and tapping knowledge of combat, tactics, and strategy for any situation with the physical ability to pull them off.

I would say the limit to pushes like that would be the steel twins equipment or armor and the back force of the push. They have materials that could hold up under sonic speeds, and the transmission of that speed into a push from 775 mph or in other words a change of about 80 mph though strenuous is survivable and repeatable. An Iron twin could have pulls that devastating if they could position their target between them and metal and because they themselves could become massive so as to be almost immoveable. In a limited distance I think they would have some ability to manipulate gravity effects just not like Radiants and only towards themselves. Any gravity effects they might produce would diminish by the square of the distance. twice the distance a quarter of the effect. Oh according to the Coppermind and various Signing comments a Steelrunner can withstand the G's of near FTL movement.

I think you misunderstand what I was referring to. A person could push on confidence while pulling on fear to strengthen their targets resolve. push trust and pull skepticism instead of just pulling skepticism. Vin was also trying to make people more trusting and more disinterested in her. Both soothing and rioting can produce the same effects they just do it differently. First just so you don't think I am just making things up below is a snippit from the coppermind on compounding that I am refering to as reverse compounding: Mechanics While Compounding typically refers to Allomancy enhancing Feruchemy, there is most likely a way for Feruchemy to enhance Allomantic abilities as well. One of the weaknesses to steel pushing is a persons mass, if you push hard enough on a coin it will push you back. That weakness can be countered by momentum of a person moving toward their target. Their greater momentum acts as if they have greater mass which in turn enables stronger pushes. A steelrunner in motion can unleash much stronger pushes. That means they can push much heavier items or lighter items much faster. A steelrunner moving at the speed of sound could push a sledge hammer object faster than sound away from them. Do the math. A 200 lb man moving at 775 mph pushes a 10 lb hammer away from himself sacrificing 10% of his momentum would mean that the 10 lb hammer is moving at over 1500 mph. that would result in over 22,000 ftlbs/sec or 30,000 Nm/s of force at the moment of release and the man is still moving almost 700 mph. That force applied to an area about 4 in square could smash through almost anything. and the steel twin could do this over and over again. Like I said think of forces comparable to Rail guns, or RPG's when thinking about Steel twin projectiles not just common fire arms. Imagine the heat from friction and air resistance of a metal object fired with that force by the time it hits its target. At 700+ MPH a steeltwin could get very close before pushing. Bullets pushed with that kind of momentum would have the same energy because they would be moving far faster but that energy would impact a much smaller space. Even heat has some interaction with Ionization, gravity, and magnetism, so depending on the exact mechanics of steel pushes it could potentially be directed away from a coinshot of sufficient skill. That could even turn out as a resonance in the case of a Steel twin. I am not saying it would work that way, but it makes for a possible effect. My contention over people saying that isn't how it works is that we haven't seen many twinborn combinations yet and only 2 compounders, TLR and Miles, so it could be how it works. Brandon certainly hasn't explained all the rules or interactions to his magic system yet. For that matter we only have a bare bones sketch of it and a lot of RAFO. I personally would find it flattering if he read some of my speculation and used it in future books both because it might be how he already imagines it works or feels that the speculation is a reasonable effect for the combinations within his rules.

His name was Flanden and he was a blade. As they reached my booth Ander introduce him. "What can I do for your friend" I asked Ander He said, "this will be your contact with us" I looked Flanden over, and asked Ander "and who are you?" He said, "we are the ones who facilitate the smooth commerce of non tariffed items." "But I pay the tariffs on the items that I produce and sell, so why would I need you?" I asked them. He said, "even all those unregistered items you have been bringing in?" I laughed and said, "I see you really think I have received some secret shipments. There was a reason why Kari never witnessed any shipments. I never received any. All the things I sell I either produced myself of purchased here in the market from passing traders. I am surprised at you. You never considered that all the equipment and tools in my workshop were to make things?" Ander responded, "but where did you get the material for crafting?" "Right there, Why do you think I chose that location?" I said. I saw a glint in Flanden's eye as he prepared to attack and said, "make one aggressive move Flanden and neither of you will leave here alive. I have met your kind before and would like nothing better than to reduce your numbers." Then I said to Ander, "I am willing to work with you, but bring this one again, or attempt to threaten me or others in this market going forward and I will open season on you and all your associates. Do we understand each other?" Ander placed a hand on Flander's wrist gesturing for him to leave. Once Flander left he said, "threatening me and the group is not a wise decision on your part. For now I will write it off as youthful bravado and leave you to contemplate your words." Then he turned to leave and I replied, "I know who he belongs to, and you don't yet know me, so you should really bear that in mind. Any business between us only works as equals." He looked back over his shoulder and nodded.

The first limit I know for steelrunners is that they cannot achieve the speed of light. They can run fast enough to make friction and wind resistance an issue so could burn up. Inertia is not a problem for them so if they can find a way to mitigate the friction and wind resistance their speed and rate of acceleration is not a problem. They are also mentally able to handle the higher speeds. Goggles or a helmet with a face shield solves the wind in the face problem. There is also the potential that they can store their allomantic ability in the steel as well though Brandon has not explained how that might work only that reverse compounding is possible. (my term for compounding working in reverse but not presented yet). There are materials in 2nd gen Scadrial that could provide protection from the friction and wind resistance (coated or skin tight leather comes to mind, but there could be more). In addition a steeltwin up close could land numerous allomantically powered strikes in a very small area and short time before a Radiant could respond then either push themselves away, potentially launching the Radiant into nearby things or both. There might also be the possibility that they could steel push the heat away from them as well toward their target though that might require some kind of conductivity and heat sink in the suit on which they have metal projectiles attached to carry it away or the heat might be carried along the blue lines to nearby metal when they push. When you consider a Steeltwin think railgun, RPG, rapid fire guns with regards to their pushing abilities. Wax added to his projectiles velocity with his pushes and could curve them as well. He even found a way to push aluminum bullets. His steel pushed bullets traveled at comparable velocities to those he shot out of his guns. If he had been a steelrunner and transferred 10% of his velocity into a steel push on a bullet its penetrating power would be insane and depending on its composition its target would be a mess. In addition he would be able to do that over and over in rapid succession.