ScadrianTank

That is a great idea! Brandon mentioned pure and refined Investiture in WoBs, and that seems like a great way to explain how such a thing is even possible. We kind of have a president for Investiture gaining the Identity of someone who held it for long enough, so maybe its own Identity determines who can use it or something.

Harmony might be helping already by sending his agents to Roshar. I don't think we will ever get a more direct action from any Shard, with Odium and Cultivation actively fighting it out. The best we can hope for is probably an Avatar of some Shard acting as a messenger or emissary. Also, there was a theory that Cultivation and Endowment cooperated to get the Five Scholars to create Nightblood. So with Nightblood being in Cultivation's hands for a while, we can assume that Endowment is helping already. Valor sounds cool, I hope we get some letters from or to her.

Wouldn't that make Ashyn just an inhabited planet without a Perpendicularity? Stoneshaping existed on Roshar before the Shattering, before Surgebinding became a thing. In that vision from RoW chapter 67, the stone showed Venli that the Dawnsingers shaped the stone in a very organic way, creating tools and cities without Soulcasting. That doesn't read like Sugebinding to me at all. And out of all the Shards, the one that embodies Honor, laws of society and nature, contracts and Oaths decided that, because the agreement wasn't formalized, he can do whatever he wants? "Hey, Koravelium. Remember how, after we killed God and split his power, we decided that bringing it close together is not a great idea? Well, now that I am a literal embodiment of Oaths and promises, I think it can all go to hell because we haven't signed anything that wasn't a proper Oath. Very honorable of us, don't you think?" - Tanavast, talking to his wife a few days after they killed God. Then where are magic systems of only Honor and Odium? Because to me, it looks like whatever humans did on Ashyn was primarily of Cultivation. I don't think that Honor would disregard the agreement to stay apart, even if Cultivation would. If Honor and Cultivation Invested primarily in Roshar from the start equally, the Highstorm should distribute Towerlight, not Stormlight, and the Vally should have formed around a Perpendicularity. If Cultivation's magic formed on Ashyn because she was more active there than Honor, the magic of only Honor would have formed on Rohar. For some reason, I have this impression from WoBs that Honor wasn't active on Ashyn before Odium arrived. But we haven't seen it in the books at all, so I may have combined and/or misremembered some things. I think there were WoB's about humans spreading throughout the cosmere even before the Shattering, but I can't find them. We also know that there are human civilizations on planets without Perpendicularities, and they got there somehow. Or Adonalsium just put them there.

Some Fused who isn't insane or one of the Heralds. Singers are so unique that it would be awesome to talk to some like that. Heralds because it would be like meeting a Bible character, potentially life-changing.

I think my thoughts on the matter start with a question of how ashynities got Surges and a lot of things go from here. So let's set up the scene. After the Shattering, Honor and Cultivation came to and settled the Rosharan system together. Somehow, the way they did it didn't break the agreement Endowment mentioned in her letter in Oathbringer. The system has two settled planets, the Singers on Roshar and the humans on Ashyn. Both Shards were seemingly able to affect every planet in the system. Odium arrives, whispers to Ishar to check out the Surges, and ashynites kill their planet using them. And we know from a WoB that the Surges were their local magic system. So why did their magic systems produce the same effects but did not produce a third magic system, as it happened on Scadrial? How are the Surges of both Cultivation and Honor, but Surgebinding is only of Honor? And, if Cultivation's magic is just Surges, but from diseases, does it still fit Khriss' characterization as "even more esoteric than the Voidbindings"? It seems safe to assume that Cultivation and Honor kept to the agreement by staying within reach but primarily Investing on different planets - Honor on Roshar, Cultivation on Ashyn. I believe that the Surges as we know them came into existence because of more indirect interaction between Cultivation and Honor, unlike Ruin and Preservation, who had to cooperate very closely to do what they want to, kind of like a Resonance. This would explain Honor not restricting Surges from the start, because they were a new thing that didn't exist pre-Shattering, and Fused being Surgebinders, Odium corrupted Surges from Spren and stiched them to Cognitive shadows of singers, giving the Fused red eyes. This would mean that Voidbinding is really different from what we saw to this point. Problems: “Odium is the void, Kaladin. He draws in emotion, and doesn’t let it go. You … you brought him with you. I wasn’t alive then, but I know this truth. He was your first god, before you turned to Honor.” Odium being the first god as opposed to Cultivation. A possible solution would be if Odium brought a group of humans to Ashyn first, and then they all jumped to Roshar. True spren being of both Honor and Cultivation, and Roshar being equally Invested by Honor and Cultivation. Singers apparently not having any kind of Surgebinding before Odium showed up. Seven thousand years after Odium showed up and Cultivation permanently moved to Roshar, we still haven't seen any hybrid magics in Rosharan system. WoBs in text:

It probably would, huh. P.S. A question arises, who would win in a fight, Returned Lizardman or a third Heightening shrimp?

I also assume that Honor's Perpendicularity was static and didn't pop in and out of existence at random places when he lived. What we know about the limiting of Surgebinging indicates that Honor(or some part of him) had to actively regulate Surgebinding. What this tells me is that Honor couldn't just prevent people from Surgebinding. Once they figured out how to get access to Surges, the only options he had left were to raise the bar for becoming a Surgebinder and limit the power of Surges. Makes me wonder if Surgebinding on Ashyn worked more like Allomancy, where Investiture is supplied directly from the Shard in the Spiritual Realm and not from its physical manifestation.

Yeah, it's my artistic simplification of a rhythm and an inverted rhythm. EDIT: And by extension of Lights and Anti-Lights.

I looked at this one again, and it seems like it might be a foreshadowing of the Everstorm. Roshar is above silence because of the Rhythms, the illuminating storm is Highstorm because it brings Stormlight, dying storm is the Everstorm, and the silence above is Braize which is barren. Edit: Literally the next WoB on keteks that I found says that it's about Honor's death and I'm sad.

Before going to the valley, Dalinar had no way he knew of to work on his trauma. His family just assumed that because he's the Blackthorn - he'll be okay, and those who might have known that he needed help were afraid of him because, again, the Blackthorn. That drove him to alcoholism. After Gavilar died, Dalinar was ashamed of his failure to protect his brother, yet unable to fix the problem without going insane. Then he went to see the Nightwatcher, hoping to fix the problems he couldn't. Cultivation only took his memories, unless you think that she is lying in the text. We can see later in the text that he still feels the urge to drink but chooses to act upon it himself. So what is your point? You say that Dalinar did something that he can't atone for, but he's at fault for not seeking that impossible atonement? Because he does recognize that what he did is horrible, and he can't do anything about it. So he decides to go on and do better.

Truthwatcher 77% Elsecaller 70% Skybreaker 64% Windrunner 52% Stoneward 51% Edgedancer 50% Willshaper 50% Lightweaver 46% Dustbringer 44% Bondsmith 27% The top 3 make sense to me, but 50% Windrunner really doesn't seem like me.

It does seem like that is the case. The Radiant quiz mentions Willsahpers and Stonewards using their Surges to create barricades and stuff, so tunnels seem likely. A trench might be easier than a tunnel because dealing with excess material is easier, though.

It does look like an alerter fabrial but likely not Rosharan in origin. Theirs don't work in the Cognitive realm for one. For another, Secret History takes place more than 300 years before the tWoK, and modern fabrials are recent technology on Roshar. So it being made with AonDor or with a seon seems more likely.

The Fused, the Heralds, and Kelsier are different because they have an active Connection to the Shards that keeps them supplied with Investiture. The Cognitive Shadow part of the Returned doesn't have any such channels - it's anchored with a Divine Breath to a physical body. So when the body dies, their anchor returns to Endowment in the Spiritual realm, the Shadow goes back to the Cognitive realm without a Connection to make it persist.

Also this one: "Light grows so distant. The storm never stops. I am broken, and all around me have died. I weep for the end of all things. He has won. Oh, he has beaten us." The rasping voice and Singers singing is a good connection, but I took it not as Anti-light Rhythm, but their regular songs or Rhythms being unnerving to humans.

There are so many things that can happen to the Highstorm and the Stormfather. You can destroy or stop the storm, and the continent of Roshar will be washed away after a time. You can kill the Stormfather or unmake the Stormfather and disrupt the distribution of Light. A lot of possibilities and some of them can happen in the beginning and fixed or mitigated by the end. And after RoW and Dawnshard, I gave up on trying to guess Brandon's plot twists.

There are different aspects to how Shards can influence people. Holes in the soul are one. Odium used holes in Kaladin's soul and Moashe's Connection to create nightmares. Ruin and Preservation had an easier time affecting people on Scadrial because they literally created them and the planet. Relevant WoBs: The other thing is that Moash, Taravangian, and the Fused made deals with Odium which put them in his power and created a strong Connection.

I'm sure you can make spren manifest as blades and plate in Shadesmar with enough trickery. Sooner or later, Rosharans would have to figure out a way to make fabrials that work in the Cognitive Realm, or all their technology will be useless there. Not sure how I feel about removing one of the largest flaws of Rosharan magic, though.

I was under the impression that they didn't need to burn metals to see at all. As @Kingsdaughter613 said, Kelsier only perceives blue lines from the eye with a spike.

I always interpreted what Dalinar and Ishar did by summoning a perpendicularity as just moving it in place. Moving it away from its Shardworld, however, seems like moving a wave without moving an ocean. Dalinar might be Ascended and a near vessel of Honor, but most of its power is still on Roshar. I completely forgot that Soulcasting works from the Cognitive Realm that seems like a much better use for her. I agree that it might not be enough. Though, it's not only the damage from wounds that counts but depleting enough Stormlight so the Windrunner can't fly away. Thunderclasts are way scarier to fight against than combat vehicles like tanks, but the most important for explosives is that they have no real weak spots that we know of. It has no bones to shatter, no arteries to cut, and no muscles to tear apart. The fact that they are all stone makes it more difficult for explosives because the shockwave would be equally dispersed through its body, all fragmentation from grenades casing wouldn't even annoy it, and any stone shrapnel from the explosion is more likely to damage people around it than the thing itself. So all you have left is the force of the actual explosion as a damaging element. I was talking about Scadrial. And it only just occurred to me how similar those pre-WW1 ideas of the bayonet charges and facing your enemy to the Listener tradition of wearing white for assassinations.

I'll throw in a hypothetical. Coalition's army they sent to take Emul vs Northern Scadrial's defense force. Coalition has: Infantry with spears, swords, and pretty formations. Limited cavalry Fabrial platforms Regular Shardbearers A dozen Edgedancers A 4th Oath Elsecaller A 3rd Oath Bondsmith 16 Lightweavers whose levels I don't remember And let's say all of their Windrunners. That would be around 250 squires and 50 3rd Oath Knights. Basin has: A force equipped with firearms Artillery Some machineguns Mistings Ferrings Koloss-blooded(?) The way I see it, all of Roshars strength comes from Radiants. If we remove them and Meatalborn from the picture, I don't see any way for a medical army to win over any late 1800s force. I see your superior battle tactics arguments, but it still seems too far-fetched. But if anyone has any ideas on how to defeat an enemy that has an effective range of dozens to hundreds of yards greater than yours, I'll be interested in reading them. The range numbers are for bows (60 yards) and 1860 Henry(100 yards) or 1865 Spencer(500 yards). If the battle happens on Roshar, Scadrial loses. Renewable Stormlight, a Perpendicularity, supply with Oathgates and Highstorms create an unwinnable situation. If the battle happens in the Basin, they have a chance, depending on whether they can deal with Windrunnders and the Elsecaller quickly or not. Bondsmith is also a big question here. I don't think that Dalinar can take a Perpendicularity of a Shard to a different Shardworld, but for the sake of consistency, let's say that he can. In this scenario, Windrunners seem like the lagers threat, particularly full ones. They are the only units that can reliably engage with Scadrians because they can fly. They are almost impossible to hit, don't stop when they are hit, and can destroy the entire machinegun nest with a few sweeps of a Shardblade. Their biggest weakness as a battalion is that killing one full knight removes powers from all his squires. To counter them, we use Tineyes and Seekers as sentries. Ideally, with a good few squads of rifleman. Jasnah is a good contender for being an even greater threat than the Windrunners. Shardplate and blade, combined with her powers, make her a literal tank sent against a 19th-century military force. If she approaches in stealth, she can decimate fortifications, ammunition storages, railways, bridges and gates, never mind people. A good two dozen of Thugs and Brutes can probably deal with her, but something tells me that if Scadrians wouldn't manage to catch her in a trap with explosives, killing her by conventional means would probably be a massacre. Dalinar works as a battery 24/7, trying to provide enough Stormlight for the Radiants and Soulcasters. Against him, the Basin should send as many assassins as possible. Because without Dalinar, Rosharans turn into a big medieval army. I assume that pulling Investiture directly from the Spiritual realm is quite distinct, so finding him with A-Bronze shouldn't be difficult. Lightweavers are either Soulcasting or acting as saboteurs. The only way I can think of to fight against them is to look hard and shoot them full of lead once you identified them. Shadbearers are difficult to kill but easier than Jasnah because having a Shardblade as your only weapon makes circling them less dangerous. They can probably be killed by conventional means. Threats from Scadrial are not people, but artillery, machinegun nests, and infrastructure. Windrunners with firebombs or just their blades should make easy work of them. The attitude of Scadrians toward war may be less of a crutch than the ideas of battlefield honor and fair fights that lords and ladies seem to have. The history of warfare is funny in hindsight because so many things that seem obvious had to be proven in the field with blood. When Maxim's machinegun was first introduced, nobody cared for it. There is a story about a British cavalry unit that was issued a Maxim gun for a training exercise. The unit's commander, Edward, if I recall correctly, ordered to set up at an elevated position, wait for the "enemy" to show up, and open fire. After the exercise, Edward got called to speak with his brigade commander. Confident in his victory and with a smile on his face, Edward told his commander, "You're all dead, sir!" His commander replied that he'd never seen such a lack of cavalry spirit more blatantly displayed and ordered Edward to return to the barracks by foot as punishment. Modern hand grenades and tanks were developed as solutions for the problems of trench warfare of WW1. Hand grenades for clearing the enemy trench and tanks for crossing no man's land without being killed by artillery shrapnel, enemy machineguns, or drowning in mud. Since they hadn't encountered anything like that, it's a little early to expect them to have either, no?

I stand corrected. I suppose that lobotomy of the singers was so graphic that two entire orders decided that there is nothing they can do to fix it.

I don't understand why you would think that all Windrunners abandoned their oaths on the same day. If we assume that all Windrunners were fighting, in one way or another, during the False Desolation, some would be on a different front or relaying messages back to the Tower, or one of a dozen other things they might be doing.

Stormfather x Mist spirit Rlain x the Boombox