|TJ|

Huh? I don't ever recall calling you 'crazy'. Sorry if I seemed to imply it. Yes, I did indeed mean you were being your usual chaotic self.

So my paranoid self was sorta right.My initial two suspicions were Ashbringer and Striker. Striker because he asked that specific question about Abrasion-Progression-Kill. He gave a very clear answer so I was convinced. I'll have to go back and check what exactly the question was.

I think we can sort-of clear Joe because he literally had no incentive to vote on Striker is Joe was an elim. He could have just claimed inactivity and not voted at all. It will be very interesting to see the list of active people who did not vote, instead. I am also on my phone, but I'll make a proper post some time later.

Well that's a relief. We'll probably have PMs open from D2. I'll make some analysis post based on Striker's flip and post it this cycle itself in case I die. Main thing is I survived D1, and now I can do some analysis.

Wait, Progression will still stop Gravitation assisted kill right? It says Gravitation is immune to all effects that would alter the vote/action. Progression isn't altering. It's stopping, right? If not, I made a big mistake of claiming. @Straw

I'll explain why I role-claimed. Since the elims will notice the two votes missing, and know that they didn't do it, and they would have seen me talking about claiming hypothetically, they will put two and two together to deduce I'm KR. And they knew I was under too much suspicion for another village vote manip to have saved me. Meaning I would be the likely target for elim kill today. Hence I'm giving you the info as well, hoping I could ask one of the village protect roles to protect me if they feel I'm innocent. Even if they don't actually protect me, this puts enough doubt in elims mind that they might not waste their kill on me as there's a chance that I might be protected.

No I took both the votes off myself. One using Adhesion and one using Tension. I was scared of getting role-blocked or someone voting late on, so I didn't want to take my chance. What use is an extra charge if I'm dead?

I'm Bondsmith. I'm using vote manip to save myself. Will explain if my actions aren't roleblocked and I survive.

Very well. I can't risk a last minute vote. Since everyone is scared to vote for Ventyl, I'd have to vote for you, Striker. Sorry, you leave me with no choice. Sorry for the double-post, but I'm voting.

I'm usually very very careful about people who defend me( Eg. Fifth in QF45). That's like the first step towards pocketing. I don't think you're pocketing me though. But as you said, you're vote on Joe is weak. Edit: I'm very scared of a late hammer. Mage will probably shift his vote back to me. There's Devotary waiting to play the executioner. So many people unwilling to vote. Jeez.

Huh, I...honestly don't know what to make of the post. Never heard of a player telling role-claiming is their play style. You intentionally put yourself in harm situations for information? I don't get you at all. I'm like the only person pushing hard for your lynch. As such, for a person claimed to be a village KR, there has been literally no attempts at a mislynch on you at all. Only after a lot of convincing posts have I managed to sway maybe 1-2 players. There was literally no need to frame me. He could have voted for me and I'd be on 6 votes and halfway towards the dead doc. So I'm not quite sure of this. They'd lynch Striker this cycle, and use his lynch to frame me? Hmm, not sure about that. Give an example please. I'll give you my thoughts on my votes. I voted on Gears thinking it was 5-2-2, having not noticed Gears' vote on you (as in it was actually 5-3-2). After my vote, it became 5-3-3, then Joe voted for you and Mage retracted his vote on me making it 4-4-3. At this point, Straw corrected me showing Gears' vote on you. My obvious choice for self-preservation was you, so I voted to make it 4-5-2. I will remind you I stated my strongest suspicion on Ventyl back before all this. So when I saw people suspecting and voting for Ventyl, I'll obviously shift to see if I can get my strongest suspect lynched right? Ever since you replied to my question, I had no intention to lynch you. My vote on you was just to save me. And I definitely will change my vote in the direction that will save my life again if need be.

Brilliant. I did not know many players other than me felt the same about Ventyl. Striker

Sart voted on him thinking he was distracting us from lynch discussion by discussing whether Adhesion is better than Transportation. Matrim basically agreed with Sart's points. At this point there was a train between me, and Striker. Ventyl had one vote on him I think. So Gears preferred Striker over me. Joe's reason is also basically the same. Mine is I self-preservation. Yeah, I don't like it either, but a man's gotta live. I would move my vote to Ventyl but I'm in a precarious position. I'd like at least one more vote on him for me to move, as you've told you're likely to shift your vote back on me. Edit: Ninja'd by Mat

Striker has one more vote on him. Besides, are you seriously expecting things to remain the same after the frenetic cycle-end voting in the last game? I think I've said what I needed to say, unless some questions come my way. There are so many people left to vote anyway.

Did not realize there was a vote on Striker by Gears. Yes, all I'm asking is to give me a chance to prove myself. I've told this time and again I'm bad at D1 analysis. I ask you not to lynch me for my choices in the first cycle. I'll come through in the later cycles if I live for that long.

TJ (5) - Magestar, Ventyl, Elbereth, Eternum, Araris Gears (3) - Striker, Orlok, TJ Striker (3) - Sart, Matrim, Joe

Shard just ate my long post, great. I wasn't up for a D1 lynch though? I wasn't a main lynch candidate in any cycles. I was voted on by Drake, and I defended myself. I was heavily suspected in dead doc. It indeed is becoming a pattern apparently. That’s basically the exact opposite of his current argument of “wouldn’t I have hidden in the votes already there instead of bandwagoning?”. What changed? Let me quote a post of mine from the very next page after the post your quoted. This is in response to Eternum's justification of his vote on Pyro in response to my post quoted above: So the post you quoted was largely specific to Pyro, not other players. I wouldn't find Pyro jumping on a bandwagon to be an elim indication for him, since he does that a lot. But I do find jumping on bandwagons, in general, to be elim-y. I appreciate your attempt to go through previous games in an attempt to understand my actions, though your conclusion was not exactly what I expected. There are a lot of similarities between that game and this which you probably missed (or deliberately ignored). I voted for xino in C1 because he changed his style and attempted stab voting. I got heavy suspicion from Eternum for that. I changed my vote to Silber in the same cycle, who ended up getting lynched, and I drew a lot of suspicion despite the fact that people who voted after me had no better reason as well. So it's safe to say that I've been suspected a lot for my C1 reads being flimsy. To be honest, I'm immediately suspicious of anyone who voted for me, but I try to be as objective as possible. Currently I have 5 votes on me - Magestar, Ventyl, Elbereth, Eternum and Araris. Magestar: I'm unsure of him. He said it doesn't feel like I was the same as I was in LG66, but yet he claims I'm behaving odd. He had claimed the same thing in LG66 too, that my tone and my posts are odd. Why would it indicate that I'm an elim this time, Mage? Ventyl: His vote is the most odd. Whereas everyone thinks that my vote on Ash is suspicious, he voted on me because I'm behaving too villager-y? More on Ventyl later. I have a strong argument against him, and I'm very uncomfortable with so many players giving him a strong village read. Elbereth: Could be playing the discussion-heavy mislyncher. But as I said earlier, I'm apprehensive about voting out any active discussion-driving player early in the game. We need to keep an eye on her and see if her discussion and votes are leading towards mislynches all too often. Eternum: I'm very suspicious of him. I'll explain by quoting his posts further below. Araris: It seems like he wants his vote to contribute to something as he would not be available during the rollover. NAI. Most likely - Ventyl, Eternum. Vote trains till now: Ventyl - Araris, Elbereth : This has now since derailed. Araris' vote was a stab. Elbereth voted because she felt his mention of role-indication as mildly suspicious. Both NAI, but revist depending on Ventyl's flip. Araris moved his vote off Ventyl to Devotary because Ventyl said " I don’t think letting them know I’m a Radiant is a big deal, because I’m going to guess that the majority of players are Radiants so would it really be a surprise? " How does this result in a village read? I'm unsure. Gears: Striker, Orlok: I have already mentioned Orlok's vote on Gears as weird, but then he'd pick up on the smallest things as well, so NAI. Striker's reasoning about Gears causing paranoia is not something I agree with, as stated previously, but he tunneled on me very heavily in the last game so I guess it's just him. Striker: Sart, Matrim: I have reiterated multiple times that I do not find Matrim as an elim due to his confusion, and his vote on Striker seems genuine. Unlike Sart's which seems to hinge on the fact that Striker distracted us from the lynch discussion, but Sart hasn't exactly done much to drive the lynch discussion forward. I've seen Sart 'Recently Browsing" quite a few times, and I think he's remaining quiet because you guys seem to be doing all the work for him, if he's elim. Reads: Elbereth: As I said before, heavily involved in discussions, but I do not want to give a village read because she can very well be misleading elim. Watch where her discussions lead closely. Null. Orlok: I do not agree with his reasoning for his suspicions on Elbereth and Gears. But that does make me lean elim. Has been largely uninvolved in other matters. Is it NAI for him? Gears: Similar posting style does not equate to similar alignment. So, disagree with anyone give him a village read based on that. Was the first one to propose postponing postponing the Ventyl lynch for later, which is not a good idea as stated by many others as it allows the elims to focus on un-lynchable players believing we'll lynch Ventyl later IF he is village. Could be a method to delay us from lynching elim!Ventyl. Very mild elim. Ashbringer: Null so far. Disagrees with the majority that at least I've got a reason to vote, rather than throwing a random vote on others. Ash, where's your vote? Your voting pattern is similar to last game so far, in that you seem like intending to vote at the last. (I still feel there's something wrong with that (-ish) btw, I swear if I get lynched for an accurate flimsy vote...) Striker: I liked his answer to my question, but other than that, his discussion is largely not related to the lynch. I'd like to see some reads from him. Very mild village. Matrim: I'm also usually suspicious of people who defend me (Fifth Scholar in QF45), but his defence seems genuine rather than an attempt at pocketing. I like that he's willing to risk a lynch for defending me. I've already told earlier that I find his reaction to Ventyl normal. Village. Araris: Claims he voted for Ventyl because it seemed Ventyl pseudo-justified his poke-vote on Joe. But in doing so, isn't Araris providing a pseudo-justification for his vote on Ventyl? Having a strategy such as his, it makes it very easy to deflect D1 suspicion with others defending him because it's his style. But can it be he's using this style on the occasion that he's elim to escape suspicion? His vote on Devotary only had reasoning that she did not have a previous vote on her, but this gets chalked up to his style. Mild elim. Pyromancer: What was the weird stuff about Honorblades, huh? Seriously, it came from nowhere. It's pretty clear that this isn't a blackout game, so I'm unsure why you would ask this. Why would do think the elims cannot Squire? Bah, you're being your weird usual self, man. Null. Kynedath: Village. From his one post, he was inquisitive, and gave a positive response. Mainly gut, but have feel that it's a good chance he's village. Magestar: Weird to say they feel compelled to vote because of a poke. I feel like a villager shouldn't need to be poked to play. I would like him to answer the question I previously posed. Null. Lahilt: Posts less, whenever they do, I get a strong gut village reading from them (in all games we've played so far). Posting less is NAI for them. Gut village. Truthwatcher: Their analysis post and their usual posts make me agree with them quite a bit, so I'd like to lean village. Devotary: Similar to Araris, I believe they could be hiding behind their 'usual style' to avoid suspicion, but no strong indications so far. Null. Eternum: He voted on Ventyl despite having a gut village on him. He immediately retract his vote, but shouldn't he have waited if he wants to see the momentum the train would gather? I said I hesitate to lynch Ventyl on the possibility of his claims being true, but still said he might be an elim. In the next post, I expanded why we need to be wary of him since everyone were jumping to give him 'strong village' reads. You just voted for Ventyl because you wanted to see my reaction for it? Seems like an excuse for your vote-hopping. Am I not supposed to retract my vote when I see people not agreeing with my opinion or if they change my mind or if I see other players not adding to my vote? How is this any different to how Araris retracted his vote on Ventyl? Besides, you pushed a lynch on me for 3 whole cycles before backing off. Moderate elim. Make it strong if Ventyl flips elim. Ventyl: The main problem I have with Ventyl is he's so adamant to prove his role, but not his alignment. He did the exact same thing in LG66, where he swore he was a Leecher and even wanted to waste his actions to prove that he was one, but the fact that he's telling the truth about his role does not translate to his claim as a villager. Here are a few warning signs I saw from his posts: Makes a claim despite being warned not to. Gives no good reason as to why he claimed. Main question to Ventyl supporters: Why would he intentionally put himself in harms way from the elims by claiming? What could he possibly gain? His willingness to Squire someone to prove his role (again, role, not alignment) is suspicious. He seems to have no qualms of Squiring an elim by chance. This! Why did everyone brush it off? Am I the only one seeing it as an attempt to bait out a claim from Elbereth? Why no worries that elims might read and attempt to block? Even if they don't, everyone would know Elbereth's role or the lack of it after his attempt to Squire as it seems he intended to reveal if it was success or not. As for him asking to be alignment scanned, someone already deduced he might be an Edgedancer, so he could make himself untargetable and waste a charge of the alignment-scanner. We are allowing him to Squire, but if he's an elim KR like I suspect he is, we're allowing him to Squire another elim before dying. Why aren't we considering this? This point was mentioned two times in the very first page. Why do you feel the need to mention it again? Strong elim. Ventyl has 0 votes on him at the moment, so he's likely not getting lynched. But I'm asking y'all to consider all these points. Maybe you'll believe that this post is an honest opinion when I die and flip village. Your vote was the third on me. Mage and Ventyl voted had already voted before. But again, don't you see the problem? None of the other players have gained any votes. Ventyl train has completely fallen off. I'm now wholly the main lynch candidate here. I'd imagine some of my elim teammates would have dropped votes on either Striker or Gears at the moment as an alternate, if I was an elim. Gears, solely as a preservation vote. Doesn't matter if I vote on Gears or Striker, both are likely to vote on me in self-preservation as well. Between them, I suspect Gears just a bit more. But would love to shift to Ventyl if there's some support to lynch him.

Gahh, I don't know how I'm acting frantic. This is like the third game players have said I give off weird vibes, and I really don't know what to do about it. That half a day is when people are usually inactive, so I asked in advance what to do. I understand that claiming would only increase my suspicion as people may see it as an attempt to slip out of the lynch, but I can't really keep quiet if I am one, can I? That's why I don't know what to do.

So I'm starting to get a little worried here guys. This is known to be from an elim perspective, so why would I do that? I would rather hide among the votes on Striker/Ventyl/Gears, right? No one is defending me, even subtly, so that should ring some bells. Hypothetically, if I have a role, how many hours before the rollover should I claim to try to dissuade people from a lynch on me? Will claiming dissuade people from a lynch, or should I take the knowledge of that to my grave? I'm trying to walk the line between outright claiming and not saying at all, since people have not at all considered that I could be a KR too. Edit: @Straw, could I have a vote count?

This means that every villager needs to be vigilant and not give out any information to him via PMs for the duration.

No, I just meant that his statement (in which he intended to agree with you) is not suspicious in itself. I still think he was genuinely confused about Striker's statement, and as such still read him as null, rather than elim. But I would take up your offer to move my vote to him in self-preservation. Basically, the same thing that's been happening so far. I draw an unfair amount of suspicion based on my D1/C1 votes because I tend to over-analyze posts because I'd like my votes to have some reasoning behind them. In doing so, my reasons seem flimsy and draws suspicion. Mostly, the suspicion comes from elims but ends up drawing the villagers too. I'm a bit surprised by the "flying under the radar" bit. Mint said the exact same thing in QF45, and she flipped elim. I'm trying to ask people their reasoning behind their votes. I stated I dislike Gear lynch due to the odd reasoning of Orlok behind it. I stated my disapproval at Ventyl's claim. Maybe it's because I'm inactive when you guys are the most active due to timezone incompatibility. I don't feel like I've gone under the radar at all. I asked Striker what I thought was a fair question, and when he gave a satisfactory answer, I accepted it. Surely I could have added to the trains of Gear/Striker/Ventyl instead of drawing suspicion for a vote on Ashbringer if I was an elim, yeah? I was trying to see who defends him and who joins me in voting for him, but that didn't happen. We also need to talk about Ventyl. He told with strong conviction that he expects to be killed tonight. So why do it? Why claim to the thread? It serves no purpose at all. It only created confusion. Why should we dismiss it because an elim would not want to draw attention to themself? Why would a villager draw the attention of elims? Let's see the advantages he gets by claiming if he's an elim. - Possible protection from the village - Escape from the lynch - Trust of the villagers, possible info from the role-claim. By the time we realize this is happening, there will be a lot of info for the elims. So he has all the motive to do this as an elim, and quite no motive at all to do this as a villager. We shouldn't be so quick to dismiss his actions as too improbable for an elim.

Fine, maybe I was over-thinking the Ashbringer bit. But, I'm keeping a close eye on you, Ash. As I said before, I really don't want to lynch a KR if Ventyl is indeed telling the truth. And I don't like the other options present, so I'll see how the situation goes.

Hmm, don't know how elim!Striker would have reacted to that, but I feel your answer (and your initial question) is genuine. Though those questions might be genuine from an elim too, I think I'm convinced for now. Welcome! I'm glad you decided to post, and give your thoughts. Yes, Ventyl is weird that way, but he may as well be evil. Well RP is mostly not an alignment indication. You may choose to indulge in return or you may focus purely on hunting out the eliminators (or misleading the villagers if you are one of the eliminators). There's a huge difference in the elims not knowing you're alignment to knowing that you're a Radiant, and not a Willshaper. Yes, there might be quite a few (maybe not majority) Radiants, but they still had to search for them. Even a single peace of information makes it easier for them. Many people warned against role-claiming, and you went ahead and partially did that. I expressed my disapproval and stated how your actions benefitted the elims. How does that equate in me being an elim? If your argument is that it is elim tactic to act like a villager, yes obviously that's they want to achieve. Does that mean suspecting everyone who appears village? That doesn't seem right. Your plan is to attack someone who feels village? You being an elim makes sense too, as by proclaiming you had a role that is of importance to the village, you make the village hesitate to lynch you. I'm really not sure want to make of you right now, since you might be telling the truth, and I hesitate to lynch you for the very same reason above.

Gears retracted his vote on Elbereth. Hey, I've learnt that I should never dismiss my paranoid self. Seriously though, why would he ask that question? Sure seems specific, doesn't it?

Any suspicions at the moment, Ash? Huh? You said this: How does that translate to "I'm not a Willshaper"? STOP clearing things for the elims! Gahh, you haven't anti-roleclaimed. Anti-roleclaiming is NOT claiming anything at all. Now not only have you told them you're a Radiant, you have also cleared off one order for them. There's also a chance Ventyl might be an elim with village-centric role, so we need to be careful with that too.