|TJ|

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Ahh, got it. Thinking about it, what I said doesn't seem possible because if there are only 2 people in the room, and one of them is killed, it's going to be pretty obvious who the killer is. Hmm, not quite sure if this is correct, Devotary. Gears voted to go to the study but voted in purple, which Kasimir told he'd consider. Araris voted to go to the study as well. I got this: Growlery(2): TJ, Xino Study(4): Drake, Vapor, Araris, Gears Kitchen(2): Lahilt, Striker Lounge(1): Devotary Garden(4): Mist, Lotus, Elbereth, Burnt None(5): Orlok, Eternum, Silberfarben, Truthwatcher, Windrunner

Wait, @Kasimir, elims can only kill people who are in the same room as them?

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@Elbereth, I'm not sure if you know this, but Ventyl has Squired Matrim. Gears is an alternate lynch candidate with one less vote compared to Ventyl. I'm not voting on Ventyl because of his play style, but because of this: "This post" refers to Striker's final vote shifting from Gears to me. I had invited every player convinced of Ventyl's innocence to discuss this, but so far got response from Joe and Matrim. I would like to know your thoughts. @Araris Valerian, I had tagged you as well. Did you miss it? I'd like your opinion on it too.

They have valuable stuff for me to steal from. Seriously though, I think one of the rooms is where the kill will happen. And other rooms may contain clues of the killers, along with items. Rooms also give a way for the elims to talk together, though they'll have to be extra sneaky as there are bound to be other villagers in the room. They all could go to a single room, but that would be easy for us to catch them.

Loqlaw Mora had a job to do. He walked through the gardens ignoring all the other guests. If many of the guests started figuring out they didn't know him, he'd be in trouble, and he'd have to face unnecessary questions. He would have to especially avoid Talbot Oswin. He sped into the manor and passed the lounge. Just past it, he could see a few people in the kitchen. Well, food would come later. Time to see why his contact had sent him here. He roamed around the manor till he found a corner of it which was relatively quiet and free from guests. He tried one of the doors, and entered. It was quite small in comparison to other rooms and just seemed to exude comfort. It was a retreat of sorts, with loads of books and a warm fireplace. He was in a personal place of Talbot Oswin, and he was very likely to find some interesting things here. For he was in Talbot Oswin's Growlery.

Pyro, Ventyl has already claimed that he has Squired successfully.

A FEW HOURS AGO: Loqlaw Mora was in a fix. He had waited until the last moment to implement his plan, and most of it would depend on luck. Of course, he had planned for every possible way his plan could fail, but still most of his plan hinged on luck. And luck, he had loads. You see, Loqlaw was a Slider-Spinner Twinborn. Everyone thought his powers were the reason he was so good at what he does, but that was barely the truth. They even had a Twinborn name specifically for him - a Swiftswipe. He stiffened as he thought of the name. He absolutely despised it. His methods were anything but swift. He loved making extensive plans and playing long cons. They thought he was so successful because of Bendalloy bubbles. But in truth, he loathed using them. Where’s the fun in that? Where’s the look of betrayal in the face of the person who had given you their confidence for a long period of time? Though he derived immense satisfaction from it, he wasn’t a sadist. Each and every one of his victims got what he gave them (well, what he took from them). He shook himself out of his reverie. He had a job to do. Earlier today, he had received a message from one of his numerous contacts, which usually meant a new job. This time, it just contained the address to a manor, and a short message to be there with an invitation. In a short while, he had figured out the identities of several other legitimate guests and chose his mark. Sat right across from him on a train from Elendel to Bilming was Lord Elmar Valand, extremely prideful of his scholarly pursuit and too greedy for his own good. He knew exactly what to do with these types. “Wasing the went of the where?” Loqlaw asked, hiding his smug grin. Valand looked up from the book he was reading, seemingly perplexed. You see these types, they only show off their possession of knowledge. They do not actually make an effort to study. Best way to deal with them is to baffle them with High Imperial. Valand tried to eke out a response “Eh, going of wasing to Bilming.” “Ah, notting the not of feeling the bad. Wasing the thinking of wanting to knowing.” Loqlaw could barely contain his laughter as he saw Valand thoroughly annoyed. But that was enough. It wouldn’t be wise to chase his victim away. “I meant to ask where you are going, sir.” Loqlaw put his brightest smile. This question seemed to brighten up Valand. “Why, I’ve been invited by Lord Talbon Oswin at his manor for a part, of course! I assume you are as well, Mister…” “Ah, I’m Varybed. Lord Varybed Theef. Of course I was, but unfortunately I had to decline. You see, I was invited to Mayor Severington’s private banquet. Alas, I would have loved to go to Lord Oswin’s party instead. You see, I really do not like to be among political plotters. Lord Oswin, now that’s a good man. Always pleasant to spend time with. But I had already accepted Severington’s request and I could not go to Oswin’s party without someone replacing me.” “You.. don’t have anyone to go in your stead.” “Alas, no. I leave quite the lonely life.” Loqlaw could see Valand plotting in his mind, slightly grinning. “Say what. Shall we exchange our destinations? You seem to be eager to go to Lord Oswin’s party, and let’s say I would love to make some connections in Bilming.” Loqlaw gave out his largest fake smile. “You do that for me? Oh, Lord Valand. I do not know how to thank you!” “You can thank me by handing out your invitation”, Valand said with an evil smile. Loqlaw removed a sealed envelope before eyeing Valand. “I’ve got strict orders to seal the invitation after reading it. Do not open it before you reach. He nodded and handed his invitation, and it was as easy as that. He didn’t even need to tap Fortune. He rose up, bowed slightly. “Seeing you out of the seeing without!” He turned around to steal a final glance at Valand’s face and left. Lord Severington was about to be one confused host to one utterly confused guest. _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Loqlaw Mora was standing outside Breezing Manor, wondering why his contact had sent him here, and what valuable treasure was he to loot. This would be an uncertain, but exciting night. Feeling pretty confident, he showed his stolen invitation to the Secretary, and strolled in.

Role-claiming is his playstyle. He could not care less about people telling him what to do. He will do what he wishes. Yet to answer Yet to answer 1 and 2 in his own words from my previous questions in earlier threads. Can we not talk about the future right now? I'd rather not lynch based on suspicion thrown, but on votes cast. There are so many factors to consider our next lynch target, and so many actions flying around between D2 and D3. Can we wait for the voting pattern and the eventual results? If you know you're village, you aren't doing us any favor by condemning yourself for a lynch if Ventyl flips village, because then, we'd have two cycles of mislyches, like Araris said before. Oh, so assuming what a dead elim might have been thinking is more logical than what I stated? Why are we believing anything an elim said? It was NOT a self-preservation vote because he knew I suspected Ventyl more than him, so if I had no reason to save myself I wouldn't have any reason to shift my vote on him. He knew all this, and still voted for me, leaving me with no choice but to vote for him. That is like sacrificing for Ventyl. You're really going to ask that? xD

Ash retracted his vote off Ventyl. My main argument against Gears lynch: I feel this too strong to be a poke vote. I replied with me finding this post odd: He admitted he was in the wrong, yet did not feel compelled to remove his vote: As such, I find Striker's push on Gears too strong for it to be E/E. I'd also imagine if Gears wanted to save Striker, he could have done it at any possible time in the cycle, There was no need for hm to draw suspicion by retracting his vote at the last moment. I feel it was a genuine attempt to tie and check for elim vote manip. @Matrim's Dice, I tagged you in the post above. No comment? (Adds +5 Suspicion Points to Matrim) Ashbringer would be my suspect no.2. He voted for Ventyl this cycle telling it'll stay until he answers his questions.What is this, C1, to vote for prompting others to answer? It seems like a very easy way of back off a lynch. Possibly, he saw a few people voting for Ventyl and appeared to consider a bus, and then he saw a larger no. of people against a Ventyl lynch and backed off from it. . Yeah, it doesn't make sense. Safe to say I'll be looking very closely at people who voted for you, if you flip village.

???? Edit: Y'all I'm telling you he's an elim giving some of his teammates slight village reads. It cannot be anything different xD

Try to follow from now on if you can, Silber. And ask if you have some doubts, okay?

Yes, every one of them refers to Striker, though I'm not convinced of the sibling part, because he's missing a great chance to lynch village KR (at the time I hadn't revealed that I was one as well). So Striker is basically preferring to lynch normal villager over a village KR, and over Striker himself, which doesn't sit right with me. Hence my suspicion on Ventyl.

You're right of course. What I proposed earlier only creates a chain of mislynches and would be disastrous for the village. The only reason I told so is because I hoped that would unite the villagers to vote for Ventyl, and now I realize why that hasn't happened. It isn't right for me to force people onto my suspicion, and I would go towards other players if I wasn't suspicious of Ventyl. As such, I'd invite you all to allay my suspicion on him. If that doesn't happen, my vote is staying on him for the duration of the day. The main reason for my suspicion (which I've already stated multiple times, invited people to discuss, and which has been conveniently ignored) is not his actions, but the actions of Striker, specifically saving Ventyl above him. Can people please discuss this? Everyone seems to be ignoring this. @Araris Valerian, @Orlok Tsubodai, @Devotary of Spontaneity, @Elbereth, @Matrim's Dice, what are you opinions on this? And please try to view this from my point of view, because for me, I can't come to any conclusion other than elim!Ventyl.

This is not exactly correct. He pseudo-claimed for no reason at all, then hid behind his claim basically holding his KR tag as shield. I claimed only to explain my missing votes so you do not think I was saved by elims. And I'm fine with lynching other people from my suspicion list from N2 thread, but he's the most suspicious of the list and I'm sure he's an elim KR, a powerful one too. Therefore, I'm scared of letting him live even a cycle longer than necessary. I'm really unable to understand the hesitancy of others to lynch him, which only adds to my suspicion as part of the silence maybe from elims. Are you all not seeing what I am? His only defence seems to be "This is my play style." while I've tried to give the most logical reasons and y'all come up with impossible situations to try and put the suspicion back on me.

I don't know if you were serious or actually joking but that made me laugh out. xD I needed that, thanks. Nope. Only takes actions.

Another bait to out Elsecaller/Lightweaver *sigh* Fine, if that's what takes to get y'all united to lynch Ventyl, lynch me IF he flips village.

Another setback for your bus theory. No Illumination. Strength to my elim!Lightweaver theory. Kinda obvious answer. It feels like you're asking to seem naive. Can we please lynch Ventyl? He's had his chance to Squire, and he mostly Squired a fellow elim. I have one Squiring left too, if everyone is forgetting. Bah, I'm going off for a while to watch Arsenal play. Edit: Sadly, it's half-time. @Straw, is the Progression Surge used up only if it heals an attack, or does it get used even if no one attacks the target?

Y'all are not making sense, oh storms. Serious considering E/E/E train? @Ashbringer, so who among the voters of Striker do you think is an elim then? You seriously don't think the elims would let a 5-vote train on me before beginning an alternate lynch ( an alternate lynch at could have been anyone BUT Striker)? There was a very good possibility to do that when it was 2-2-2-2. Don't you think that would have been an apt moment to go for a non-elim alternative? Make it make sense y'all, jeez. Seriously, I absolutely baffled by the sheer reluctance to lynch Ventyl here, who has been a lot more suspicious than me. We get huuuge number of people who were anti-Ventyl lynch. Do you seriously think there is an elim!Bondsmith? A role with double-vote manip or double-roleblock? Fine, forget that. If I flip elim but not Bondsmith, that means there are two other roles with vote manips both willing to waste a Surge? In a team of possible 3 Radiants? That is seriously absurd. Where did the Truthwatcher/Edgedancer/Windrunner stuff come from? That would also require 2 other vote manips from teammates. You're just throwing all possibilities to deflect blame here. This only increases my suspicion on you, as you're just throwing everything out, and hopes someone catches something. You don't lose a Surge. Alright, guys. Do make sure to visit my 3 earlier posts if I die. And do lynch Ventyl when I flip village.

Yes, and it's a chance right? And it's a possibility and I felt you attempted to nullified the chance. You seemed to imply that the elims are active and have vote manip, but didn't use. There's a possibility elims were inactive hence they couldn't vote manip. Your post seemed to imply they deliberately did not use it. I'm telling there's a possibility that they couldn't use it, which would indicate a semi-active team which you might be attempting to hide. Nothing glaring, something to look in the further cycles. Of course, all my suspects are from the current active pool. So, if there are a few inactives in the elims, then there are bound to be few villagers in my list. My pool indicate the ones I suspect the most who have been active.

@Magestar Well, if you brush off hard evidence as weird, I can't do anything. I'm honestly tempted to drop the subject, but I'll make an attempt to convince you anyway. Yes, it's unusual. But it's a D1 elim lynch for storm's sake. It's bound to be unusual. I'd seriously like some scenarios from you about what could possibly be the case if I was elim. Something that makes more sense than the simplest answer - All 4 of us who voted for Striker are village. Also, the quote for Gear's post is heavily over-simplified. Matrim had heavy suspicion on Striker as well. Thank you for the vote of confidence, Joe. Though I'm not sure why you think I'm an elim if Ventyl is one too. I've actually been pushing heavily for his lynch. Also, that would make the last end-of-cycle train as E/E/E which would be highly improbable. Right, time for some reads: So we can establish that there is at least 1 elim (other than Striker) who voted on me, and at least one elim who was active for the whole cycle but refrained from voting. Voted on me: Elbereth, Eternum, Araris, Striker. I'm removing Araris because seems village from his posts in this turn. That leaves one or both of Elbereth and Eternum as elims. There's also Orlok with a vote on Gears, but more on that later. Refrained from voting: Gears, Ashbringer, Truthwatcher, Devotary. Out of these, I'm most suspicious of Ashbringer. Gears: Similar to Sart's vote on Striker, I feel Striker's vote on Gears was too pushy to be distancing. He leaned hard on the paranoia part. Also, if he was an elim, he would know that he'd be the prime suspect for his retraction of my vote irrespective of the flip. Instead, he could have just voted for me if he wanted me dead or wanted to save Striker. Mild village. Orlok: Not sure if this level on activity is normal for him. He's focused only on Gears and Elbereth so far. Voting on Gears flimsy, but later stated he wasn't too attached to Gears lynch. Unsure. Would like an answer from someone who has played a lot with him about his activity level. Ashbringer: Very much get the feel like he's posting to not appear as lying low. I don't feel like he's actually making valid contribution towards lynch discussion, and he did not vote. I remember only one read post with 3 players. Mild elim. Explain how the bussing would go please. Refer to my defence in the previous post for why such a buss would be impossible as there was another non-elim(according to you), candidate (Ventyl). Eternum: Refer to my reply to Elbereth's post, and my suspicion from previous cycle. One of those who voted for me, staunchly against Ventyl lynch, and suspected Matrim, one of my strongest village read. Moderate elim. Matrim: I really liked how he backed himself and voted for Striker despite retracting it earlier. I've had a good feeling about him the entire game. He had suspicion and he didn't back down despite there being a chance that he would be suspected for it. Village. Joe: Agree with everyone. Village. Araris: I really liked his posts from this cycle, even if I don't agree him elim suspects. Just a tiny thing is bugging though. @Araris Valerian, when you mentioned active people who did not voted, you mentioned Devotary, Gears, and Truthwatcher. Why didn't you mention Ashbringer? Very mild village. Magestar: I'm willing to read village just for their vote on Ventyl which they did not change even when it reached 3 votes. But apparently, voting for Ventyl just to see my reaction has become a thing?? First Eternum, and now Magestar. Very mild village. Frozen Mint: Couple of warning posts: She gives a good reason as to why villagers shouldn't use vote manip, but there's a possibility that she's dissuading a village vote manip from saving me. Or they didn't want to show their hand Trying to stray away from the fact that there could be semi-active elims who couldn't use vote manips? Very mild elim. Truthwatcher: I was getting a very good vibe from him until the moment when he was pro-Ventyl lynch, but just decided not to vote for him even when there were 3 votes on him. @The_Truthwatcher, what happened? Will wait for response before making a read. Sart: Agree with everyone. Village. Ventyl: EVIL! Devotary: Gut village. Makes a good point here: @Devotary of Spontaneity, any reason why you did not vote? Elbereth: I'm slowly beginning to suspect her. Mainly for her reluctance to see beyond me. Also because she strongly opposed Striker's lynch, and seemed to heavily suspect Matrim. Might be tunneling, or might just be claiming to be tunneling as an excuse to push out a mislynch. I hesitate to fully dive into suspecting her because Orlok suspects her as well, and I'm uncertain of Orlok's alignment. Might just be beginning to agree with Orlok though. Mild elim. Probable elim team: Eternum, Ashbringer, Elbereth, Ventyl with an outside chance of Frozen Mint, Orlok, and probably some semi-active player. @Gears, people tend to not give out their reads or state suspicion during the night cycle for the fear of getting killed if they are right. I have no such qualms. (I'm just joking, Progressionist pls save me xD)

Alright, time to answer some questions. I'll have you note that if I was an elim, I would not have dropped a read post you to analyse after my death which would indicate a lot of things, especially since I was fairly certain that I would die. (I had 5 votes, and the next nearest was 2 votes.) I'm...not sure I get you here. I believe hiding and bandwagoning in a elim behaviour. I also condemn bandawagoning early in D1 as I believe spread votes generate more discussion. And I did not join among the voters. Are you saying that I'm an elim and I'm avoiding what I believe is elim behaviour? I'm not sure what's contradictory here. I believe bandwagoning is elim behaviour. I'm a villager, so bandwagoning is harmful for village, and hence did not join. Where is the contradiction? I explained it in the post itself. Basically his voting pattern, poking Ventyl, then retracting and giving reason for his poke. And then his vote on Devotary. So I was beginning to see some evidence of him hiding behind his voting style. No such thing from Devotary. I no longer find Araris as mildly elim due to his posts from this turn, but more on that in the read post. Contradiction is inherently suspicious, no? Especially in a single post. Why does anyone vote on someone they have a village read on? He went from gut village to confused to voting for him? I was very vocal about not fully trusting Ventyl from the very beginning. My responses in between Eternum's post had no relation to his post. Yet he retracted it, telling he wanted to see if there would be a train, yet retracted it before giving it time to see whether a train would build. Also, you asked whom among my voters do I find the most suspicious. It seems Eternum just used my suspicion on Ventyl to vote for me, so all together, I told him, along with Ventyl would probably be the elims who voted for me. It's not the number of times he's changed that's significant. It's the time duration between them. "I just wanted to see what you would do" seems like a very easy way to get off suspicion for changing votes between short duration. I ask you to name one villager who would take the risk of doing that. And I say risk because Mint was especially discouraging the villager from using vote manip, and everyone seemed to think tie would be the best result. Most of the people who did not vote for me because they liked the alternate better. Even Matrim, probably the person who trusted me voted among all of you, still felt swayed by you in the end to be fine with my lynch. I don't quite understand this. Does easy alternative mean asking in the elim doc? Probably my strongest defence is the same point I made earlier about Striker voting for me instead of Ventyl: I'll be as clear as possible. It was 4-3-3 (Striker-Me-Ventyl). I had my vote on Ventyl. At this point, Striker chose to go for me over Ventyl. If I was an elim, why would he do that, especially since y'all seem convinced Ventyl is village KR? Ventyl would be a proper lynch candidate for me and Striker. He could have voted for Ventyl to make it 4-3-4, and I could have Tensed/Adhered a vote off Striker to set up Ventyl for the lynch (3-3-4) . Please give me a good reason why Striker voted for me over Ventyl (i.e. why he voted for his teammate over a village KR, according to you). Another point is that 3 votes on me were very solid and were on pretty early in the cycle. I had a solid train, not many votes getting off. How would you explain an E/E train? They brought up the Striker lynch as a counter for me? Who is they? Joe? Matrim? Sart? Why would they bring an elim counter against me, when they could have easily chosen a village. Gears and Ventyl were just as easy to lynch as Striker. Why him? Explain please. Seriously, evidence in support of village!me is strong if you just managed to look. @Magestar, the same goes for you. I had to use up my 2 charges in the very first turn (when I had to spread it over 6), and I've had to role-claim and will likely get killed sooner rather than later and still you say "Soft-clearing is going too far"? Will you still tell that your perception of my vote on Ashbringer negates or overcomes everything I've said in the above para? Elbereth, I'm just beginning to feel like you're being very uncertain in your approach here. You seem to agree with me at times, and just.. back off? You mentioned my very mild village on Striker not once, but twice, while you have been the strongest person against a Striker lynch. Don't you think your focus is entirely and too heavily on me? From my perspective, it looks like an elim is trying to derail the thread from discussing actual lynch candidates by focusing purely on me and trying to pin suspicion on me for a mislynch in future cycles. Who else are you suspicious of? Who are you willing to lynch next cycle? Who are your current elim reads? My updated reads to come a bit later.

I'll come back to your questions later, Elbereth. I'd rather analyse Striker's posts in case I die tonight. A question about grav-assisted kill. It should have been our first indication about elim!Striker (It was mine, but y'all convinced me I was crazy (looking at you, Mage )). As Araris said, the question would be too suspicious for an elim to ask, that made me lean mildly towards village after Striker's answer. But this post isn't about me, it's about Striker. But this proves they have at least one gravitation role, more likely to be a Windrunner rather than a Skybreaker. He's probably honestly accurate here, though we should be worried about him underselling the elim team. 7 elims with a buff village is not unlikely, and something to be wary about. He's probably semi-accurate here too. Seeing as his earlier question about grav-assist kill, Windrunner is almost definite. Ventyl has all but confirmed he's an Edgedancer, and I do suspect him for reasons you'll see later in the post (of course there could be multiple Edgedancers, I'm not suspecting him solely on his role). The last statement makes me think they do have a Lightweaver though. Anyway, guessing the elim roles can be dangerous since there might be multiple KR of the same Order. I'm not quite sure if this is distancing. This came pretty early in the cycle and stayed very late until he shifted his vote onto me. Someone could chime in about it. I feel like it's not, makes me give a few more village points to Gears. Too little role-blocks and redirects with the elims? They already have one via Windrunner, which makes me think they don't have Elsecaller or Willshaper (or Bondsmith since it can work as a double-roleblock as well, if you think I'm an elim!Bondsmith). It also makes me think he was lying about elim!Stoneward. This also strengthens the elim!Lightweaver because I believe they do have at least one scanner, and if it isn't an Elsecaller, it should be a Lightweaver. This.. I'm not sure. It feels like an appeal to behave like a villager. Since my last long post till this post, even if Devotary's posts were not lynch discussion, her posts definitely felt helpful to the village. More on Devotary in a read post. *IMPORTANT* This is the prime reason I suspect Ventyl. At the time of this post, I was on 3 votes, Ventyl was on 3 votes, and Striker was on 4 votes. My vote was on Ventyl. He voted on me, specifically preferring a lynch on me over Ventyl. He obviously knew that if he voted on me, I would also shift my vote to him as self-preservation, which would end up with him on 5 votes and lynched. He had a vested interest in saving Ventyl above me, and above himself. That too with the knowledge of Ventyl being a KR. It doesn't make any sense at all for him to prefer a lynch on me if there was a village KR as one of the prime lynch candidates. Is it only because they're siblings, or do I make sense?

Yeah, the thought crossed my mind. I think it even slightly contributed to me reading Striker as mild village.