KandraAllomancer

Yeah, I agree that is a decent counterargument Why? I see Intents as corresponding to quantum states here; some might be pure, some might be linear combinations of others I'm not aware of any fully stable mesons. As for baryons, my point was about confinement (which matches Roshar's situation quite well, in my opinion), not about stability

After watching the last few Shardcasts, I decided to play with @Argent's idea that Voidbinding might be about accessing the power of Odium directly, not about accessing Surges. It actually led to some interesting conclusions, which I'll try to present below Voidbinding doesn't use Surges The basic premise, obviously. There are some reasonable arguments that support this idea: The Knight Radiant, the Fused and fabrials all use Surges. Surges were also what destroyed Ashyn. Despite their ubiquity, we have not a single description of Voidbinding that mentions them explicitly. We only know about the ten levels and the existence of “Voidbindings”, whatever they are. Khriss is also unsure how they fit into the whole Orders/Surges/Essences paradigm Voidbinding is a cousin of Old Magic, which isn't Surge-based Renarin's futuresight isn't necessarily a Surge. He does have access to a separate, distinct version of Illumination, while his visions match what Tanavast says about his own futuresight (also, Renarin seems to see things that are of interest to Odium, not random visions). It seems possible that Renarin is accessing the Shardic power directly, rather then filtered through Surges In this WoB, Brandon describes futuresight as “dangerous territory, and drawing upon a Shard” The futuresight is described as “the soul of Voidbinding”. It's the only Voidbinding power that is widely known. It stands to reason that it might not be available to a single Voidish “Order”, but to all Voidbinders, possibly forming the first level of the magic system Additionally, per Taravangian's word, all Unmade have some sort of access to futuresight, despite having other distinct powers and roughly matching the KR Orders. Given that, futuresight doesn't seem to be tied to any single Surge Comparison with the Metallic Arts Comparing Rosharan and Scadrian magic leads to some interesting analogies that might elucidate the nature of Voidbinding: Surgebinding corresponds to Allomancy/Feruchemy, with 10 Surges / Orders / KR Spren types fulfilling the same roles as 16 metals Fabrials correspond to ettmetal-based magitek Old Magic corresponds to lerasium, as both can be used by anyone to change their spiritweb Voidbinding, finally, has the same role as atium There are two important thing about atium that I believe are relevant here (besides the obvious fact of providing futuresight): Atium requires the power of another Shard to work. Without Allomancy, Feruchemy or some magical ability to steal via Hemalurgy, atium is useless Preservation tweaked Allomancy, so that atium could be used against Ruin I'm not sure if Voidbinding can exist as a fully standalone magic system; it might require some other power (typically Surgebinding) to work. Based on this WoB: I think that what is called Voidbinding might actually stem from Surgebinding hacked (e.g. via spren corruption) to give people non-Surge powers, to Odium's detriment. It would also explain the name “Voidbinding”, which doesn't sound like something Odium's followers would use The Voidbinding chart If that is the case, the Voidbinding chart isn't a Voidbinding chart per se; it's more like a Surebinding + Voidbinding chart. My current theory is that it might have originated on Ashyn, and its history might have been more or less like this: People were experimenting with Surges provided by Odium and his Voidspren, creating a chart that is extremely similar to the one for Rosharan Surgebinding, but with different Surges / Orders (e.g. “Voidish” Illumination would be Renarin's balls of light) Two “Orders”, Bondsmiths and Truthwatchers, turn out to be special though: both have access to the Surges with the most Spiritual aspects they kind of match Dawnshards quite well: one on them can bind people and spren, which seems very Bondsmith-like, and the Change Dawnshard is a “will of a god to remake things, to demand they be better”, which fits nicely with Renarin showing people their perfected selves Sja-Anat has a weird affinity for Truthwatchers and BAM started exhibiting Bondsmith-like powers during the False Desolation; both happen to provide Voidbinding abilities, to Signers and humans respectively I believe Bondsmiths and/or Truthwatchers might have been the ones to figure out that you can use the magic to tap Odium's power directly, likely with the help of the Dawnshards – which is why they are surrounded by a red gem on the chart and not connected to any Surges. Odium wasn't very happy about it, so he pushed them towards the planet's destruction. Voidbinding was left unused and partially forgotten, until some Unmade started experimenting with it again during the False Desolation, possibly given some knowledge by Cultivation or a Herald starting to go mad. BAM sudden unexplained powers might actually be our only hint at the higher levels of Voidbinding

Thanks

When it comes to Heralds' look, sure, but I think it would be pretty weird if they had the cousin spren wrong

I'd like to discuss some doubts I have about this particular WoB: Unfortunately, Jasnah attracting particular type of cousin spren doesn't seem to be described in the books and we don't have Battar's portrait yet. We do have Pali's though, and she does seem to be surrounded by logicspren - their shape matches the description (tiny stormclouds) and logicspren arguably fit Truthwatchers as a whole even better than Elsecallers. Could this WoB be another example of the "Oathbringer is an Honorblade" situation?

It will be answered in Book 5:

Hints about Renarin come from Oathbringer (chapter 55) and WoBs; RoW, on the other hand, points to Rlain Actually, the whole thing was resolved just a few days ago: Brandon was part of the last Shardcast. At 1:31:00 he talks about Renarin and Rlain, and how he wanted a same sex relationship from two PoVs to avoid tokenism and have more variety in representation

The more I think about this, the more I'm leaning towards these opinions as well. First of all, after seeing the Fused Surges and what unchained Ishar can do, Renarin's futuresight looks more and more like fully unrestricted (and barely controlled) Illumination. If that is the case, Voidbinding might simply give users access to unrestricted Surges, while terms like "Voidbindings" or "ten levels" might relate to how the power is obtained (corresponding to Oaths or Nahel Bond, maybe?). Anyway, here is my proposition for the timeline: Odium arrives on Ashyn and people start bonding some Voidspren (the bond is probably temporary and depends on the emotional state) or maybe even Unmade (if they exists at this point). The combination of Odium's Surges and Dawnshards leads to unrestricted Surges, which destroy the planet. Still, people learn about Surges and create the Voidbinding chart, which explains this WoB: Later, Surges (of both KR and the Fused) are generally restricted, at least until the False Desolation happens. Something weird is going on with the Unmade (at least with BAM and Sja-Anat), Odium's tone becomes a pure tone of Roshar and both sides gain access to futuresight (Nightforms and corrupted Truthwatchers). Hopefully we'll get some answers in Book 5, because there are so many potential reasons / factors here (Honor being close to death? act of Cultivation? broken Oathpact? Ishar's unchained Honorblade? Dawnshards?) that figuring out the exact reason of the change seems impossible at this time. Releasing BAM (and Honorblades possibly leaving Shinovar) should lead to even easier access to unrestricted Surges, which I expect to be a major (or even main) topic of Arc 2

This is something that occurred to me completely randomly yesterday: Ba-Ado-Mishram's powers during the False Desolation are, in many ways, analogous to the effects of duralumin in the Metallic Arts. Somehow I didn't make the connection (pun unintended) before, but the parallels are quite interesting: Allomantic duralumin could be used to create superpowered bursts of Surgebinding: Duralumin Compounding allows for accumulating huge amounts of Connection, which could be used to control Hemalurgic constructs even without emotional Allomancy: Hemalurgic Duralumin steals Connection and Identity, which happens to be exactly what was ripped from the Singers when BAM was imprisoned I'm fairly sure BAM wasn't suing duralumin and/or Scadrian magic, but the underlying mechanisms between these two might be very similar

This is a side effect of being a Dawnshard and/or holding certain levels of Investiture:

Spoiler tag just because of the image size: The diamond consists of four arches as well, so maybe there are some other four fundamental things besides the Dawnshards? We have some names like Unity or Passion that appear on different worlds and seem to apply to some Shards only, but we don't have any explicit confirmation that they must be Dawnshards

While I agree with the rest of your post, I'm not sure about this particular point. Topaz is dead, but it's entirely possible that it was just a kind of Vessel (for the lack of a better word). Maybe the mural that used to contain/be the Change Dawnshard might be considered dead is a similar manner? We know that the Sleepless wanted to kill Rysn to get the Dawnshard back, so the death of the Vessel doesn't really affect it

Just a month ago I would have argued with this, but we have some new WoBs that I believe indicate you have a point. First, a question whether or not Honor can be reformed will be answered in Book 5: Second, Brandon recently described the mechanism of visions / voices Dalinar experiences and it seems that these are Investiture constructs / AIs: It seems that Dalinar is pretty much ready to Ascend to Honor, he just doesn't have enough Investiture yet. He's tapping the power unconsciously though. I still believe the Unity Dawnshard could be a thing (based on the term being used on Sel and Poem of Ista), but for now Dalinar is just using the name provided to him by Honor's remnants

I wonder if that might be the role of the Stormstriders, maybe? We know that the Tai-na bond some mysterious spren (referred to as their "soul" by the Reshi) besides the regular mandras

We'll get a definite answer in Book 5, apparently:

There's also this one from Kin Valam that I find particularly interesting:

Wow, I've never noticed that I wonder if that's just foreshadowing for the Diagram and Dustbringers siding with Odium or something more

I've read the first two books in Polish. Here's my old post about Order names: Generally speaking, the obvious translation problem are Nounverbers, while Nounnouners are simpler to translate: spren names are relatively easy, for example windspren becomes 'wiatrospren' and voidspren becomes 'pustkospren' some names are not translated consistently: Surgebinder becomes 'Mocowiązca' (literally 'Powerbinder' for the lack of a single word that would mean Surge in this context), but Surgebinding is 'Wiązanie Mocy' ('Binding of Power') some Orders are translated into two words, which seems to sound quite good e.g. Bondsmith gets translated as 'Smith of Bonds' ('Kowal Więzi') other names are shortened, which sounds worse: Voidbringers become 'Voiders' ('Pustkowcy'), Soulcasters become 'Soulers' ('Duszniki'), Windrunners become 'Winders' ('Wiatrowi') etc. finally some names are just weird: Skybreakers are translated as 'Niebiańscy' (literally 'the Heavenly Ones', which is going to cause problems with the clashing Fused name) and Elsecallers become 'Przenosiciele' (literally 'Transmitters') words like crem, chull or parshmen are not translated at all

The first we see Ash in the books is when she's breaking stuff, so I would go with option A

There's a WoB about it: If I remember correctly, Kaladin was using Reverse Lashings subconsciously at first (the same applies to Renarin and his visions), but his first fully aware use of Surgebinding was trying to glue things to the walls of the chasms. Venli was using Transportation to peek into Shadesmar long before she was experimenting with Cohesion

We know that even though Patji is an Avatar of Autonomy located on First of the Sun, he hasn't Invested on the planet and doesn't influence local magic (second and third paragraph of Brandon's first response): The reason I have so much trouble answering these questions (and you'll see me struggling to get an answer in the 10-15 seconds I have when someone asks me in a signing line) is because this isn't an either or. Is this computer I'm using matter associated with Earth, the Big Bang, or such-and-such star that went supernova long ago? Well, it's probably all three. When people ask, "What Shard is this Investiture associated with" it gets very complicated. Shards influence and tweak certain Investiture, giving it a kind of spin or magnetism, but all Investiture ever predates the Shattering--and in the cosmere matter, energy, and Investiture are one thing. I always imagine Investiture having certain states, certain magnetisms if you will, associated with certain aspects of Adonalsium. So it's all "assigned" to a Shard--because it's always been associated with that Shard. To Investiture, Adonalsium's Shattering meant everything and nothing at the same time. We generally mean the term "Invested" to mean a Shard has taken permanent residence in a location, a kind of base of operations--but at the same time, this is meaningless, since distance has no meaning on the Spiritual Realm, where most Shards are. So imprisonment of a Shard like Ruin or Odium is a crude expression--but the best we have. Autonomy never "Invested" on First of the Sun. But even answering (as someone else asked) if they created an avatar without visiting is a difficult thing to explain--because even explaining how a Shard travels (when motion is irrelevant) is difficult to manage. It's a subject that I intend to be up for debate, discussion, and argument by in-world philosophers and arcanists. You can see why I have such troubles explaining these things at signings--and why I fail when I try to, considering the time limitations and (often) fatigue limitations placed upon me. These are concepts I intend to spend entire, lengthy epic volumes explaining and exploring. Let's say you were Autonomy, and you have--through expanding and exploring your understanding--found a gathering of Investiture that has always been there, you always knew about, but still didn't actually recognize until the moment you considered and explored it. (Because even though your power is infinite, accessing and using that infinity is beyond your reach.) Were you "Invested" there? No, no more than you're Invested on Roshar, where parts of what were Adonalsium still exist that are associated with you (in the very fabric of mater and existence.) But suddenly, you have a chance to tweak, influence, and do things that were always possible, but which you never could do because you knew, but didn't know, at the same time. And...I'm already into WAY more than I want to be typing this out right now. If it's confusing, it's because it's practically impossible for me to explain these things in a short span of time. I'm going to leave it here, understanding that no, I haven't fully explained your question. (I didn't even get into what avatars are, what Patji was, and what happened to Patji the being--and how that relates to Patji the island.) But hopefully this kind of starts to point the right direction, though I probably should have just left this question alone because I bet this post is going to raise more questions than it answers... Overlord Jebus You've confused things so much now. We thought we had a pretty good grasp of this whole Patji situation (Autonomy visited the planet at some point, got themselves all Invested and created an avatar which is called Patji by the locals). Now you're saying no Shard has ever visited there? And that the pool would have existed if no Shard had ever interfered? But that Patji still exists and is a Shard? Does that mean Autonomy edited First of the Sun from afar without actually going there? And that the pool would have already existed without any intervention? Does this mean it was associated with Autonomy from the beginning? I'm really confused now. Brandon Sanderson I don't believe I said no Shard had visited. I said no Shard was there during the events of the story. Investiture on First of the Sun predates any Shards fiddling with it. Shards have fiddled with it by the time of the story. I think fandom might be going down too far a rabbit hole on this one. Chaos Are you saying here that Patji is an avatar of Autonomy, or is it a separate Shard and not an avatar of Autonomy? Brandon Sanderson When I said Patji was a Shard, I was meaning Automony--but it is not quite that simple. Take this post to mean "no, you should not be looking toward another Shard for Patji's origins. Autonomy is the one relevant." But Autonomy's relationships with entities like this (not sure entity is the right word, even) is complex. I'm not trying to confuse the issue, though. General Reddit 2018 (March 18, 2018)

Yeah, but they had Bondsmiths and Oathgates, apparently, and the destruction of the planet seems like superpowered Division (based on Raboniel's tale). Even with Odium's Investiture, these seem like regular Surges They don't, but they can refuse to Invest on a planet and restrict / modify the effects (Honor restricting the Bondsmith powers, Harmony modifying Snapping etc.). It seems that Odium doesn't have that kind of power over Voidbinding, currently Yeah, I totally missed that on my first read. The fact that they have zero plot relevance so far makes me think that futuresight is specific to BAM or Odium restricts that power, as described above She definitely seems to be a Bondsmith spren during the False Desolation, but her powers were not understood by the KR back then and could have be something new. My current theory is that she could be using Ishar's Honorblade to do that Regular fabrials are on the level of minor Shardworld magic, I agree, but Surge Fabrials, like Soulasters, are part of the 30 magic systems of Roshar, with Surgebinding and Voidbinding Yeah, that's possible

@Honorless To be honest, after reading Dawnshard and RoW I have more doubts than I had before That would be really awesome really, but my one problem would be that I I were writing this today, I would probably use Ishar's Honorblade instead of a Dawnshard

Tension is the modification of object's stiffness, so yes, it should include making things flexible: I don't think we've seen pure Tension so far, but Dalinar uses Tension+Adhesion to fix inanimate objects in Thaylen City in Oathbringer. Something weird is actually happening here, as the KR are supposed to learn their primary Surge first (Windrunners and Adhesion, Skybreakers and Gravitation etc.) and we've seen Dalinar using mostly Adhesion so far

Also, there's Shinar from the Bible